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Answerin yer Questions

  • 06-08-2008 2:38am
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭


    Right I've made a few starts at doin this, but there are so many off Topic points in each thread that I felt it a good idea to start a whole new thread, just to get it out of the way so we can proceed onto other matters.


    So if anyone out there would like to ask me their loaded questions I'll try to respond as best I can


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭Skeptic_Desu


    Right I've made a few starts at doin this, but there are so many off Topic points in each thread that I felt it a good idea to start a whole new thread, just to get it out of the way so we can proceed onto other matters.


    So if anyone out there would like to ask me their loaded questions I'll try to respond as best I can
    Ok.
    Do you believe the holocaust happened?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    Yes, but there issome dispute over the actual numbers.

    Next question


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭Skeptic_Desu


    Yes, but there issome dispute over the actual numbers.

    Next question
    I don't think we're done. Elaborate a little. Are we talking actual dispute or some fringe nazi making **** up?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    anything I say in regards this will be taken out of context later and used by yerself or others to paint me into a corner as a
    "Fringe Nazi"

    so yes we're done with this question

    do you believe the numbers?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    I've previously stayed out of the whole holocaust discussion but if there's debate about it being 5.5 million and not 6 then fine. But suggestions that it is much less than 5.5 are just rubbish. There is so much evidence and much of it from the Nazi's own records, which there were very efficient at keeping.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    meglome wrote: »
    I've previously stayed out of the whole holocaust discussion but if there's debate about it being 5.5 million and not 6 then fine. But suggestions that it is much less than 5.5 are just rubbish. There is so much evidence and much of it from the Nazi's own records, which there were very efficient at keeping.

    Mahatma has announced that he thinks 1-2 mil jews died in the Holocaust max (his words) and that people like the Commandant of Auswitz exaggerated the number (he has yet to explain why he thinks this Nazi would do such a thing).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭Skeptic_Desu


    Diogenes wrote: »
    Mahatma has announced that he thinks 1-2 mil jews died in the Holocaust max (his words) and that people like the Commandant of Auswitz exaggerated the number (he has yet to explain why he thinks this Nazi would do such a thing).
    So it's not so much dispute, more he ignores the evidence.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Is 2 million any less shocking than 6 million?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    It's shocking that 4 million people are being ignored.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭Gillo


    Diogenes wrote: »
    Mahatma has announced that he thinks 1-2 mil jews died in the Holocaust max (his words) and that people like the Commandant of Auswitz exaggerated the number (he has yet to explain why he thinks this Nazi would do such a thing).

    He had target's to reach and was one some sort of productivity bonus?
    That said I accept the 5.5 - 6 million figure, I've no reason to doubt it.

    Right, next question, what makes you the expert on conspiracies'?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    We've had this discussion before, I dont believe the Jews, I think they exagerated the figures and co opted the misery of others to further their own gains, I believe that there were maybe 2 million actual Jews Gassed/shot/dealt with, the rest of the 6 mil was eastern europeans and russians non combatants (some of whom had Jewish ancestry).

    the reason Eichman would have exagerated, hell the reason most of them exagerated, was pride and a desire to overinflate their part in the "Glorious Final Solution" these guys firmly believed that they were doing the right thing by killing these people, they wanted to take the credit for the deaths of millions of people, a lot of them were annoyed that they didnt get to finish the job, whats so hard to understand about that?



    Now, is this played out? or do ye want to rinse and repeat


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    Gillo wrote: »
    He had target's to reach and was one some sort of productivity bonus?

    Yes because Genocidal fascists are in for the productivity bonus.
    That said I accept the 5.5 - 6 million figure, I've no reason to doubt it.

    Right, next question, what makes you the expert on conspiracies'?

    I'm not saying I'm the expert. But if you'd care to examine my previous posts on this forum and point out where I am wrong, I'm all ears.
    We've had this discussion before, I dont believe the Jews, I think they exagerated the figures and co opted the misery of others to further their own gains, I believe that there were maybe 2 million actual Jews Gassed/shot/dealt with, the rest of the 6 mil was eastern europeans and russians non combatants (some of whom had Jewish ancestry).

    And your basis for this assertion is?

    In the previous thread you denied that accepted death toil of civilians from Nazi extermination is 11 million.

    You've yet to provide any evidence that the death toil was 6 million.

    the reason Eichman would have exagerated, hell the reason most of them exagerated, was pride and a desire to overinflate their part in the "Glorious Final Solution" these guys firmly believed that they were doing the right thing by killing these people, they wanted to take the credit for the deaths of millions of people, a lot of them were annoyed that they didnt get to finish the job, whats so hard to understand about that?



    Now, is this played out? or do ye want to rinse and repeat

    Eichman's figures are supported by Nazi records, census records, and thousands of eyewitness reports.

    Your frankly, infantile, argument is that Nazis, Soviets, the USA, and the entirety of post war europe collaborated with "the Jews" as well as every credible historian of the era.

    What evidence do you have this is bullcrap Mahatma?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    Incidentally if anyone wants to see just how odious and ignorant mahatma's arguments are;

    read here

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055312851&page=2&highlight=nick

    I'm sure he's a few minutes away from claiming he's being misquoted.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    I'm not gonna go down the route of snide Jibes and abuse with you

    do you want to re read my posts in the Banking threads and ask your questions, I suggest you re red them first rather than just posting your questions as there are a lot of bits you seem to have just made up and thrown in for the laugh that I never mentioned


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    I'm not gonna go down the route of snide Jibes and abuse with you

    do you want to re read my posts in the Banking threads and ask your questions, I suggest you re red them first rather than just posting your questions as there are a lot of bits you seem to have just made up and thrown in for the laugh that I never mentioned

    Generally I'd kinda admire your perseverance in many things you post. Even though you're shown to be incorrect you stick at it and by doing so keep the forum going, fair enough I suspect your smoking a lot of weed but there you go. But this really isn't one of those times. To say that the Soviets, the USA, the British, the French all exaggerated the numbers doesn't make any sense. Stalin killed a good 20 million of his own people after the war why would the Soviets care less about these Jew to exaggerate the numbers. Why in all that's holy would the Nazi's themselves keep records of the huge numbers they killed unless they really did it. No one will ever know the exact number but it's a good 5 million and maybe 6. The idea that there is this all powerful zionist group that can control all this information is an utter joke, there's just too many people involved gathering these numbers to be able to influence them.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    Mahoooosive Quantities of Weed :D:D;):D:D

    If I had the answers to your questions I'd post them here.

    I have heard acounts of theHolocaustfromboth camps,and the more I hear fromthe Jews the less I believe their story.

    The russians would have reason to exagerate, they could blame a lot of the genocide they perpetratd on the Germans, the Victors wished to Vilify Germany for its actions, the Jews wanted Israel, so they exagerated the numbers, sidelined the other victims, and gave it their best 'PoorMe'

    I dont doubt that they killed Jews, just not as many as they claim, tis my belief that they are doubling up in a lot of cases, ie - from Belarus, Jewish Granmother, counted as both, then just put down as Jewish in the final tally.


    You dont think there was a Zionist Conspiracy?

    Why did the Nazi's attack the Jews in the first place?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Mahoooosive Quantities of Weed :D:D;):D:D

    I'd ease up and see how many conspiracies you see then and I'm not trying to be smart at all.
    I have heard acounts of theHolocaustfromboth camps,and the more I hear fromthe Jews the less I believe their story.

    You say Jews like they are all of the same mind and always agree with each other. So if I say all the catholic's are the same is that true? Many different credible historians from many different backgrounds agree with with the 6 million figure so it's by no means the 'Jews'. And really it isn't 'their' story, it's information taken from many different sources, obviously Jewish people took a major interest in finding out how many had been killed. But to say the 'Jews' like they could make up or majorly inflate this episode in history is just crap.
    The russians would have reason to exagerate, they could blame a lot of the genocide they perpetratd on the Germans, the Victors wished to Vilify Germany for its actions, the Jews wanted Israel, so they exagerated the numbers, sidelined the other victims, and gave it their best 'PoorMe'

    The Soviets didn't justify anything. That's the 'great' thing about a totalitarian state you don't need to, you just send some more people off to the camps in Siberia and the rest stay quiet. The allies had no intention of giving the Jews Israel, if I remember my history correctly they made it as difficult as possible for a lot of Jews to get to Israel. I think any race of people who have been that has been as maligned over the centuries would be entitled to some 'poor me'. I think the Irish have been entitled to some of that too.
    I dont doubt that they killed Jews, just not as many as they claim, tis my belief that they are doubling up in a lot of cases, ie - from Belarus, Jewish Granmother, counted as both, then just put down as Jewish in the final tally.

    Again with the 'they'. There is just too much evidence to actually back up the numbers.
    You dont think there was a Zionist Conspiracy?

    Outside of the conspiracy sites that would be a no. And even if there was I have no idea how they could possibly fake and/or interfere with all the evidence of the mass killings of Jewish people during the war. It's just not plausible and would be near impossible.
    Why did the Nazi's attack the Jews in the first place?

    Why did they attack the gypsies? Why did they attack the Russians? Xenophobia at it's best or should I say worst.

    To be quite honest you post smacks of the paranoid ramblings of many of the conspiracies sites regarding the 'Jews'. It also comes across as racist. Any Jewish people I've met over the years were the same as every other person I've met, people are people.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭Skeptic_Desu


    meglome wrote: »

    Why did they attack the gypsies? Why did they attack the Russians? Xenophobia at it's best or should I say worst.
    Lets not forget the disabled, the mentally ill and the Jehovah's witnesses


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Lets not forget the disabled, the mentally ill and the Jehovah's witnesses
    Plus he was none to fond of the Irish!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    humanji wrote: »
    It's shocking that 4 million people are being ignored.

    How many people to we have to reduce that to before its not shocking?

    I ask because unless we can come to some reasonable figure, then we must accept that the only way to ensure a non-shocking figure is to take the best research available and then overstate the conclusions by a greater degree than any reasonable uncertainty.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes



    I have heard acounts of theHolocaustfromboth camps,and the more I hear fromthe Jews the less I believe their story.

    Could you perhaps give us where you are getting your "fromthejews" official account?
    Why did the Nazi's attack the Jews in the first place?

    Whats your point here MC?

    A) hey the Nazi's wouldn't have been after the Jew's without Just cause?

    B) huh?

    Seriously whats. your. point.

    Are you so ignorant of the depth and level of anti semitic feelings in europe from the dark ages to the rise of nazi germany?

    Jesus are you really this ignorant?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    bonkey wrote: »
    How many people to we have to reduce that to before its not shocking?

    I ask because unless we can come to some reasonable figure, then we must accept that the only way to ensure a non-shocking figure is to take the best research available and then overstate the conclusions by a greater degree than any reasonable uncertainty.
    I wasn't saying there has to be a set number. It was in response to:
    Is 2 million any less shocking than 6 million?

    I was pointing out that if you claim it was only 2 million instead of 6, then there's a balance of 4 million people whos existence has been wiped from history. Imagine if instead of noting everyone who died in WW2 we only commenorated the death of one person. Would that be fair to all the others who died? Well, that was the point I was trying to make :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    humanji wrote: »
    Imagine if instead of noting everyone who died in WW2 we only commenorated the death of one person. Would that be fair to all the others who died? Well, that was the point I was trying to make :)

    I understand...I think you may have missed the point I was trying to make.

    Its easy to pick extremes and say that 1 instead of tens of millions is outrageous, or 2 million instead of 6 million. It would be equally outrageous to claim that 20 million were killed, rather than 6 million.

    I'm asking where the outrage stops.

    I'm fairly certain, for example, that the Jewish death-toll was no such round number as 6 million. So by how much are we (possibly) overstating or understating and why is this over/understatement not outrageous?

    I'd hope that we'd get to an answer which says that a figure is not outrageous when it is the best we can produce given the evidence at hand.

    This should lead us then to ask what the evidence behind the claim of 2,000,000 is, rather than simply dismissing it out of hand as being outrageous because its a gross understatement.

    If 2,000,000 is outrageous as a claim, it should be because it is based on outrageous evidence, rather than because it is inaccurate with a figure we believe in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    bonkey wrote: »
    I understand...I think you may have missed the point I was trying to make.

    Its easy to pick extremes and say that 1 instead of tens of millions is outrageous, or 2 million instead of 6 million. It would be equally outrageous to claim that 20 million were killed, rather than 6 million.

    I'm asking where the outrage stops.

    I'm fairly certain, for example, that the Jewish death-toll was no such round number as 6 million. So by how much are we (possibly) overstating or understating and why is this over/understatement not outrageous?

    I'd hope that we'd get to an answer which says that a figure is not outrageous when it is the best we can produce given the evidence at hand.

    This should lead us then to ask what the evidence behind the claim of 2,000,000 is, rather than simply dismissing it out of hand as being outrageous because its a gross understatement.

    If 2,000,000 is outrageous as a claim, it should be because it is based on outrageous evidence, rather than because it is inaccurate with a figure we believe in.

    Isn't it great that we can question this without being imprisoned. Could the death camps have physically processed/killed 6 million in the years of operation is what I would ask.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Kernel wrote: »
    Isn't it great that we can question this without being imprisoned. Could the death camps have physically processed/killed 6 million in the years of operation is what I would ask.

    Indeed it is great we can question this, wasn't it you that suggested a police state was coming though?

    Well considering Stalin is estimated to have killed 20 million of his own people (with no reason for 'the Jews' to 'exaggerate') I say that's very possible. Since the Nazi's were gassing people in large sheds I'd imagine you could go through an awful lot of people very quickly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    meglome wrote: »
    Well considering Stalin is estimated to have killed 20 million of his own people.

    Much larger time period.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Much larger time period.

    True but he wasn't putting them in large sheds and gassing them either.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    Kernel wrote: »
    Could the death camps have physically processed/killed 6 million in the years of operation is what I would ask.

    I refer back to my own post.

    If you want to argue that the accepted "best guess" is wrong, then provide the evidence to show that best guess is wrong.

    If you want to argue that a different figure is more accurate, then the onus is on you to provide evidence as to why we should accept that your figure is more accurate. I don't disregard it because someone can formulate a question nicely.

    I mean...how go we really know that the sun rose on the 11 of June, 846? Thats what I reallly want to know.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    meglome wrote: »
    Indeed it is great we can question this, wasn't it you that suggested a police state was coming though?

    Well considering Stalin is estimated to have killed 20 million of his own people (with no reason for 'the Jews' to 'exaggerate') I say that's very possible. Since the Nazi's were gassing people in large sheds I'd imagine you could go through an awful lot of people very quickly.

    I doubt the camps could have processed 6 million people. That's the population of a small country. No doubt they did participate in a massive campaign of ethnic cleansing in such a vile way - but 6 million in 3 years? BTW - where did I suggest a police state was coming?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    bonkey wrote: »
    I refer back to my own post.

    If you want to argue that the accepted "best guess" is wrong, then provide the evidence to show that best guess is wrong.

    If you want to argue that a different figure is more accurate, then the onus is on you to provide evidence as to why we should accept that your figure is more accurate. I don't disregard it because someone can formulate a question nicely.

    I mean...how go we really know that the sun rose on the 11 of June, 846? Thats what I reallly want to know.

    Bonkey, why resort to such pedantry as in the last sentances of your post? Do you believe that the death camps could have processed so many in their years of operation? It would amount to around 5, 500 people per day would it not?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭Gillo


    Diogenes wrote: »
    I'm not saying I'm the expert. But if you'd care to examine my previous posts on this forum and point out where I am wrong, I'm all ears.

    Apologies the question was directed at mahatma


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    Kernel wrote: »
    Bonkey, why resort to such pedantry as in the last sentances of your post?

    To make it abundantly clear just how credible and worthwhile I consider the line of argument-from-incredulity to be, particularly whilst simultaneously shifting any and all burden of proof away from having to establish that your question has merit in the first place.
    Do you believe that the death camps could have processed so many in their years of operation? It would amount to around 5, 500 people per day would it not?

    Kernel...if you have a problem with the official figures, then you go and work out how they calculated them, and show where the flaws in those calculations are.

    Until then, I'm not playing this game, where you shift the burden of having to establish that your claim has merit by simply restating (in different ways) your disbelief in large numbers, and asking me whether or not I agree or disagree.

    The value of 6,000,000 wasn't just dreamed up. You know this and I know this. There was research done, evidence examined, and conclusions reached. You apparently want to either disregard all of this - to avoid addressing it at all.

    If you want to attack the conclusion, you need to show that the evidence which led to the conclusion is wrong. Asking me what I believe doesn't change that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    bonkey wrote: »
    Kernel...if you have a problem with the official figures, then you go and work out how they calculated them, and show where the flaws in those calculations are.

    Until then, I'm not playing this game, where you shift the burden of having to establish that your claim has merit by simply restating (in different ways) your disbelief in large numbers, and asking me whether or not I agree or disagree.

    The value of 6,000,000 wasn't just dreamed up. You know this and I know this. There was research done, evidence examined, and conclusions reached. You apparently want to either disregard all of this - to avoid addressing it at all.

    If you want to attack the conclusion, you need to show that the evidence which led to the conclusion is wrong. Asking me what I believe doesn't change that.

    Where do the figures come from then??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    Kernel wrote: »
    Where do the figures come from then??

    Kernel...if you don't know that, then it would appear that your argument can be summarised as follows:

    "I have no idea how they arrived at this number. Based on that total lack of information and a difficulty to accept its conclusions, I choose to consider the results suspect enough to question or reject".

    Is that what you're saying?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭mumhaabu


    Did Jesus actually have a kid?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    Kernel wrote:
    Where do the figures come from then??

    Senior Nazi sources put the death toil at 6 million. The head of Auschwitz Stated at it's peak the camp could kill 20,000 people, a day.

    Once again your basic lack of imagination and comprehension of the sheer industrialisation of the Nazi death machine over the course of half a decade is your only issue here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    Diogenes wrote: »
    Senior Nazi sources put the death toil at 6 million. The head of Auschwitz Stated at it's peak the camp could kill 20,000 people, a day.

    Once again your basic lack of imagination and comprehension of the sheer industrialisation of the Nazi death machine over the course of half a decade is your only issue here.

    More personal abuse from Diogenes. How surprising. Can you provide links which I can read to back up this information?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    Kernel wrote: »
    More personal abuse from Diogenes. How surprising. Can you provide links which I can read to back up this information?

    http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_holocaust/faqs/answers/faq_3.html

    A detailed list of over four million jewish victims of the holocaust.

    Hey Kernel knock yourself out. Go give me evidence that your figures are accurate just don't say "nah I don't believe it, two million tops" etc, those of us who have studied or researched the sheer terrifying scale of the holocaust, are outraged by the base ignorance of those who support holocaust denial and those who use holocaust denial to support a anti-Semitic agenda.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    Diogenes wrote: »
    Hey Kernel knock yourself out. Go give me evidence that your figures are accurate just don't say "nah I don't believe it, two million tops" etc, those of us who have studied or researched the sheer terrifying scale of the holocaust, are outraged by the base ignorance of those who support holocaust denial and those who use holocaust denial to support a anti-Semitic agenda.

    1) I'm not anti-Semitic, nor do I have such an agenda - do not insinuate that.

    2) I never put forward any figure, merely asked questions relating to the official figure. As such, I need present no evidence, merely disseminate the information you have presented in the link.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    Kernel wrote: »
    1) I'm not anti-Semitic, nor do I have such an agenda - do not insinuate that.

    I never did. Oh wait. Paranoid much?

    Scratch a conspiracy theorist and find a holocaust denier. Shall we have some ****s and giggles where I point out the links between major conspiracy theories and anti semitic racists?
    2) I never put forward any figure, merely asked questions relating to the official figure. As such, I need present no evidence, merely disseminate the information you have presented in the link.

    Um, er, Liar?
    Kernal wrote:
    I doubt the camps could have processed 6 million people. That's the population of a small country. No doubt they did participate in a massive campaign of ethnic cleansing in such a vile way - but 6 million in 3 years?
    You're clearly disputing what is regarded as the official figure.

    Hell you are engaging in David Irving esque gymnastics, you're blatantly refuting the figure without offering a framework for you alternative supposition and death toil.

    Hey Kernel two simple questions.

    What do you think was the death toil of the final solution of the Jewish question?

    And can you back that up with facts?

    50 quid to the Santa Strike Force says no*







    *this is an actual claim, I will donate 50 euro to the santa strike force if kernel gives his best guess to the death toil of the holocaust*, I will accept reputable sources and will bow to muji's call as to whether these sources are acceptable

    * I claim the death toil at 5.5 to 6 million jews, Kernel denies it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    Diogenes wrote: »
    I never did. Oh wait. Paranoid much?

    Scratch a conspiracy theorist and find a holocaust denier. Shall we have some ****s and giggles where I point out the links between major conspiracy theories and anti semitic racists?

    Of course you insinuated that. Conspiracy theories = anti-semitism? Ridiculous! :rolleyes:
    Diogenes wrote: »
    Um, er, Liar?

    I am not a liar, I put forward no figures of my own. Doubting the figure of 6 million is clearly not putting forward your own figure. Indeed, most scholars seem to be in disagreement over the 6 million figure too. I would accept that there is evidence for 4 million, but there's a big difference between 4 million and 6 million.
    Diogenes wrote: »
    What do you think was the death toil of the final solution of the Jewish question?

    I have no idea. I'm not a holocaust expert. I merely asked was it possible for the death toll to be so high. Bonkey understands, I'm sure. He'll explain to you.
    Diogenes wrote: »
    * I claim the death toil at 5.5 to 6 million jews, Kernel denies it.

    I question it... there's a difference.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    Kernel wrote: »
    Of course you insinuated that. Conspiracy theories = anti-semitism? Ridiculous! :rolleyes:

    No it's not from the protocols of elders of zion to "no jews turned up for work on 911" jew's turn up with depressing frequency among conspiracy theory.
    I am not a liar, I put forward no figures of my own. Doubting the figure of 6 million is clearly not putting forward your own figure. Indeed, most scholars seem to be in disagreement over the 6 million figure too. I would accept that there is evidence for 4 million, but there's a big difference between million and 6 million.

    Pathetic. You doubt the figure of 6 million, but accept the figure of 4 million, But then claim "I put no figure of my own"? Grow a spine, if you dispute the genuinely accepted figure, grow a pair, and put it forward. Alternatively put forward some evidence to support your assertion. You'll notice you asked me to do a few posts ago and I did. Got the courage of your own convictions?
    I have no idea. I'm not a holocaust expert. I merely asked was it possible for the death toll to be so high. Bonkey understands, I'm sure. He'll explain to you.

    If you think a poster like bonkey agrees with you, you're even more deluded than I thought.
    I question it... there's a difference.

    Oh I question, I just use rational, evidence, and logic to weigh up said evidence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    Diogenes wrote: »
    Pathetic. You doubt the figure of 6 million, but accept the figure of 4 million, But then claim "I put no figure of my own"? Grow a spine, if you dispute the genuinely accepted figure, grow a pair, and put it forward. Alternatively put forward some evidence to support your assertion. You'll notice you asked me to do a few posts ago and I did. Got the courage of your own convictions?

    Pathetic eh? Lol, what's pathetic is your inability to read my posts properly. I already said that I am not an expert on the holocaust, and have no figure of my own. I merely question whether 6 million would be a possible figure. Nothing wrong with questioning things in an educated society. I accept evidence for 4 million. So what's your problem? There could have been 6, but I would need to research evidence for that. :rolleyes:
    Diogenes wrote: »
    If you think a poster like bonkey agrees with you, you're even more deluded than I thought.

    Whether Bonkey agrees with me or not is not the issue. At least Bonkey understands my points and attempts to refute them. You, on the other hand, are no Bonkey - as has been said before.
    Diogenes wrote: »
    Oh I question, I just use rational, evidence, and logic to weigh up said evidence.

    I doubt it very much.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,630 ✭✭✭Oracle


    I don't want to be a party pooper but what is the point of this thread? (Besides particular individuals having an argy bargy over topics they clearly don't agree on, and never will.) I think this thread should be locked.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    Kernel wrote: »
    Pathetic eh? Lol, what's pathetic is your inability to read my posts properly. I already said that I am not an expert on the holocaust, and have no figure of my own. I merely question whether 6 million would be a possible figure. Nothing wrong with questioning things in an educated society. I accept evidence for 4 million. So what's your problem? There could have been 6, but I would need to research evidence for that. :rolleyes:

    A few simple questions for you Kernel, what evidence have you seen that makes you think 4 million, and not 6 million died in the holocaust?
    I doubt it very much.

    What you doubt and what you can prove are vastly different things.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    ya know this was supposed to be the thread where I answered specific questions about my economic policy, course no one wants to discuss that cos you can generate way more outrage talkin about the holocaust.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    ya know this was supposed to be the thread where I answered specific questions about my economic policy, course no one wants to discuss that cos you can generate way more outrage talkin about the holocaust.
    Your OP wrote:
    Answerin yer Questions
    Right I've made a few starts at doin this, but there are so many off Topic points in each thread that I felt it a good idea to start a whole new thread, just to get it out of the way so we can proceed onto other matters.


    So if anyone out there would like to ask me their loaded questions I'll try to respond as best I can

    Do I see the words "economic" or "policy" in your first post?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    Kernel, Diogenes is not trolling or being abusive (perhaps a little grating :) ) but none the less he's doing no wrong.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    miju wrote: »
    Kernel, Diogenes is not trolling or being abusive (perhaps a little grating :) ) but none the less he's doing no wrong.

    Can I say he is an ignorant idiot/lunatic from the tube station and question his intelligence in all my posts so? ;)

    Grating is one term, bullying posters interested in the subject matter of this forum is another. I could show a list of Diogenes previous posts since he began in this forum, but I don't have time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    Kernel wrote: »
    Can I say he is an ignorant idiot/lunatic from the tube station and question his intelligence in all my posts so? ;)

    Grating is one term, bullying posters interested in the subject matter of this forum is another. I could show a list of Diogenes previous posts since he began in this forum, but I don't have time.

    And I could post some of the threads you've started demanding other posters leave this forum, even naming names. I'd really not start throwing stones here Kernel, the insurance premium on those glass houses is just dire.

    Now instead of getting all irate, you could explain how, and why you feel the the figure of 4 million is more accurate than the widely accepted 6 million figure for Jews in the holocaust.

    Otherwise I have some great Brie and Camembert, to compliment your rather tedious whining.


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