The M50 Barrier Free Tolling Thread

thebman

Well they'll never prosecute anyone, I mean it wouldn't pay them. Imagine the solicitors fees.

I think the only thing that would make them do it is to make an example of someone if not paying the toll became widespread.

I still belive people should boycott this shameful system and just refuse to pay the tolls but use the bridge. We've paid for it ten times over and this system simply does not work.

I've never had to use it thank god.

The tax man

Well I rang those solicitors this morning,ready for a good argument over the phone,but it didn't happen. First off the they just wanted the ref no. from the letter,so gave it to them and was told this case was highlighted for some reason. and that someone would ring me back....still waiting for the call.:rolleyes:
Anyway told them my payment number from eFlow transaction screen and that I have a bank statement showing withdrawal for same and that all this happened before Nov 30th etc etc.
Going to ring them back tomorrow and get some sort of answer from them.

Seth Brundle

Don't waste your time! Eflow is a scam. Evidently, they steal your time and patience!

niceirishfella

kbannon wrote: »

Don't waste your time! Eflow is a scam. Evidently, they steal your time and patience!

Get this, when i spoke to eflow yesterday and asked for the name and contact details of the GM/CEO or whatever headhoncho @ eflow, i was told they could not tell me as they don't give out that information??? :rolleyes:

Drummerboy08

niceirishfella wrote: »

Get this, when i spoke to eflow yesterday and asked for the name and contact details of the GM/CEO or whatever headhoncho @ eflow, i was told they could not tell me as they don't give out that information??? :rolleyes:

I wouldnt give it out either being honest.. Just dont pay any more tolls until you get it sorted. Worked a treat for me...

peasant

Did any of you ever bill them back?

Like for telephone cost, stamps, registered post, time lost?

I would ...but then I don't have to use the bridge

Drummerboy08

peasant wrote: »

Did any of you ever bill them back?

Like for telephone cost, stamps, registered post, time lost?

I would ...but then I don't have to use the bridge

I've never billed them back - but in work, because we have 3,000 cars on the road at any one time, we got a load of toll charges in when this started. It turned out that many tolls had been paid twice, or three times in some cases - Us, the driver, and the drivers company.

We have been told not to pay any tolls, so we just keep a record of what tolls come in - STR numbers, Reg Number, and time passed thru. This list then gets emailed to E flow every months, and those tolls have been written off AFAIK.

niceirishfella

Registered post? Shure they don't even bother with registering this post......another flaw in their system.

Our man in Havana

niceirishfella wrote: »

Registered post? Shure they don't even bother with registering this post......another flaw in their system.

Look at the figures, 54 cent for regular post vs €5.30 for registered post. Eflow are not going to increase their postage costs 10 fold overnight. It would eat into their profits. Can't have that now.

The failure to send the notices by registered post will be factor if they were ever to venture into court against a motorist.

niceirishfella

Bond-007 wrote: »

The failure to send the notices by registered post will be factor if they were ever to venture into court against a motorist.

Agreed. A "Return to sender" rubber stamp would be good next time you see one of their envelopes arrive.;)

http://cgi.ebay.ie/Return-To-Sender-Stamp-STOP-JUNK-MAIL-DEAD-LOOK_W0QQitemZ270342256855QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_BOI_Office_Office_Supplies_Stationery_ET?hash=item270342256855&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

dubsgirl

I too have received 2 letters from these solicitors today, unfortunately in my case it's guilty as charged. I thought my OH was going to pay it (he insists I never asked him - wrong I did )

Now is there any hope of me getting these ridiculous fines cleared?

I have no objections to telling a few porkies to get rid of the 286EUR I now owe instead of 3EUR

Seth Brundle

dubsgirl wrote: »

I too have received 2 letters from these solicitors today, unfortunately in my case it's guilty as charged. I thought my OH was going to pay it (he insists I never asked him - wrong I did )

Now is there any hope of me getting these ridiculous fines cleared?

I have no objections to telling a few porkies to get rid of the 286EUR I now owe instead of 3EUR

Just ignore them - as already discussed its unlikely that anything will happen they are just bullying tactics

Sizzler

The tax man wrote: »

Well I rang those solicitors this morning,ready for a good argument over the phone,but it didn't happen. First off the they just wanted the ref no. from the letter,so gave it to them and was told this case was highlighted for some reason. and that someone would ring me back....still waiting for the call.:rolleyes:
Anyway told them my payment number from eFlow transaction screen and that I have a bank statement showing withdrawal for same and that all this happened before Nov 30th etc etc.
Going to ring them back tomorrow and get some sort of answer from them.

I know Bond said the calls are back into eflow but I dont think they are, I suspect the solicitors have a small number of staff dealing with these calls, thing is (if this forum is anything to go by) 90% of people will be calling to dispute the charges, this will be HUGELY labour intensive and regardless of the max fine they can levy it really wont be worth their while. I can see the call centre staff getting pi**ed off with this pretty quickly or asking eflow for tenfold the resource which I doubt they will like!

A lot of the stuff here appears accurate in terms of bulk mailing on their headed paper by way of mail merge. Some people might brick it due to the threat of judgements etc but given they have to get you into court for that and a minimum cost of €300 per case I cant see this happening. Open up a random issue of Stubbs Gazette and you will see a handful of cases for the likes of Vodafone & o2 for example where they will take someone to court for €500-€900. 90% of the cases in stuff is high end debts. The first eflow case in court should be one worth being in the gallery for. Defendant will say they paid and heres my credit card bill your honour, eflow kept pestering me etc. Cue case struck out. You cant stand over a case when the supporting "system" and level of service is plainly a shambles.

On another note, as I recall Sean O'Neill (see below link)was on Today FM's last word etc. when they were castigated for their "teething problems" back in October. About time he was brought on again...

http://www.nra.ie/AboutUs/ContactInformation/

Also, heres the managing partner of the solicitors in question..

http://www.pierfitz.ie/?q=node/15

The tax man

Sizzler wrote: »

I know Bond said the calls are back into eflow but I dont think they are, I suspect the solicitors have a small number of staff dealing with these calls, thing is (if this forum is anything to go by) 90% of people will be calling to dispute the charges, this will be HUGELY labour intensive and regardless of the max fine they can levy it really wont be worth their while.

Have to agree with this. Don't think the number is redirected back to eFlow. Seems like a small enough staffed operation. People I've talked to were actually nice,not the usual call centre bot you get when you ring eFlow themselves. Rang them again today and was again told that someone would ring me back,still haven't heard a thing. Maybe they've a lot of people to ring back.:rolleyes:

darren20

MorrisDunn wrote: »

Let me explain how these "solicitors letters" work.

I used to work in debt collection for a well known firm in Dublin. What eflow have done is they have paid these solicitors a fee to use their letterhead and churn out automated letters. The solicitors supply the wording and eflow print off the letters back at eflow central aong with the other notices. The solicitors letter is just another printer in the eflow office.

The named solicitors have never had your details. The phone number on the letter will be a number belonging to eflow. It is a basic scare tactic. Thing is it works in 90% of cases.

It's not scare tactics these solicitors or employed bu the NRA to collect debts owed to them on their behalf. If you call eflow and your case has been sent to these solicitors the eflow agent has no access to your file and will have to transfer you to these solicitors to discuss the case

darren20

Carawaystick wrote: »

Well if you have one er, witness who can remember you paying, that's one more witness more than they have.

remember only a court can fine you.

No plenty of people can fine you for various offences, such as traffic wardens for illegal parking, gardai for speeding and eflow for not paying your tolls

niceirishfella

UPDATE ..............i got a letter this moring from the solicitors saying that "they are closing off the case".

So, I WON! and i was right.

But, there never was a case to answer? No apology either, just a denial that the debt collection letter was "a standard one" they send out and that it did "not question my integrity or defame my good character" as i had alledged back to them.

Their point is that I had'nt paid the toll on a day back in November last by 8pm, which is a bye law for the M50.

Correctly me if I'm wrong, but did'nt they waive that up until the end of Nov?

Thanks,
NIF

Our man in Havana

darren20 wrote: »

No plenty of people can fine you for various offences, such as traffic wardens for illegal parking, gardai for speeding and eflow for not paying your tolls

Actually no. Those organisations can offer you a fixed penalty (not a fine) in exchange for not prosecuting you. Only a court has the power to impose a fine.

Mr Burns

darren20 wrote: »

It's not scare tactics these solicitors or employed bu the NRA to collect debts owed to them on their behalf. If you call eflow and your case has been sent to these solicitors the eflow agent has no access to your file and will have to transfer you to these solicitors to discuss the case

It is not a debt until a court decides it is. I think you are just an eflow apologist.

Bond-007 wrote: »

Actually no. Those organisations can offer you a fixed penalty (not a fine) in exchange for not prosecuting you. Only a court has the power to impose a fine.

Correct.

Mr Burns

niceirishfella wrote: »

UPDATE ..............i got a letter this moring from the solicitors saying that "they are closing off the case".

So, I WON! and i was right.

Result. Well done

niceirishfella wrote: »

But, there never was a case to answer? No apology either, just a denial that the debt collection letter was "a standard one" they send out and that it did "not question my integrity or defame my good character" as i had alledged back to them.

Interesting they claim it is not a standard letter. I wonder what was the exact wording of the letter?

niceirishfella wrote: »

Their point is that I had'nt paid the toll on a day back in November last by 8pm, which is a bye law for the M50.

Correctly me if I'm wrong, but did'nt they waive that up until the end of Nov?

Thanks,
NIF

They did but that point was lost on our friends from Listowel.

Seth Brundle

Mr Burns wrote: »

They did but that point was lost on our friends from Listowel.

Preumably eFlow send over a weekly list of 'offenders' and run against a mail merge template using the solicitors headed paper so its really eflow's fault (eflow cock up - no way :eek:) but then again, its still on the solicitors headed paper!

niceirishfella

Mr Burns wrote: »

They did but that point was lost on our friends from Listowel.

I'm going to write back and inform them of this and send them an invoice for wasting my time when they knew this information - say the cost of writing to them twice (1 fax and 1 letter) €160? like its €80 a solictor charges for sending out a letter - so, I'll tale that as a yardstick:D:D

Story goes its costing them half a million per week to collect tolls? They don't have a clue.

Thoughts anyone?

thecommander

niceirishfella wrote: »

I'm going to write back and inform them of this and send them an invoice for wasting my time when they knew this information - say the cost of writing to them twice (1 fax and 1 letter) €160? like its €80 a solictor charges for sending out a letter - so, I'll tale that as a yardstick:D:D

Story goes its costing them half a million per week to collect tolls? They don't have a clue.

Thoughts anyone?

You can invoice them but I doubt very much they'll pay. Are you a solicitor?

Our man in Havana

The only way you would get those costs would be to have let the matter get to court. When they loose the case you get your costs from eflow.

Seth Brundle

niceirishfella wrote: »

Story goes its costing them half a million per week to collect tolls? They don't have a clue.

That was the anticipated cost. Since barrier free tolling was introduced, it has been one continuous disaster which has to have cost them way more than they had originally expected.

niceirishfella wrote: »

Thoughts anyone?

Yeah - eflow couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery!

Davy

kbannon wrote: »

That was the anticipated cost. Since barrier free tolling was introduced, it has been one continuous disaster which has to have cost them way more than they had originally expected.

Yeah - eflow couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery!

This is so very true. I know someone who works for them and she even said they are a joke :pac:

Sizzler

Anybody try using their website to pay for a journey by VISA? Type in whatever you want and it accepts it as paid. I popped in my card number, Mickey Mouse as the name and a makey uppy CV2 number and bobs your uncle, a farce.

Our man in Havana

You should have tried a completely fictitious card number and see if it would accept that. The name or CV2 number are not essential elements to obtain an authorisation code.

Sizzler

Bond-007 wrote: »

You should have tried a completely fictitious card number and see if it would accept that. The name or CV2 number are not essential elements to obtain an authorisation code.

Cant say I wasnt tempted I know if I posted that there would have been a gush of morally compliant folk on here saying it was dispicable etc.

Sizzler

Nice bit of propaganda sent out from the NRA today in todays Indo :rolleyes:

Indo wrote:

By Paul Melia


Wednesday February 18 2009

HUNDREDS of motorists a day are getting free rides on Dublin's M50 motorway because they refuse to pay the toll.

But now solicitors acting for the National Roads Authority (NRA) are sending out hundreds of final-warning letters telling people to pay the €3 toll and any fines incurred -- or face court.

The Irish Independent has learned that up to 800 motorists are now failing to pay for using the Dublin ring-road, which became barrier-free last August.

Despite warnings by the NRA that toll dodgers would be prosecuted, and their credit-rating affected, hundreds of drivers are still failing refusing to pay the €3 toll and have racked up fines of over €150 each.

However, the NRA is receiving between 200-400 calls a day from people eager to settle their accounts before receiving a court summons.

Warning

Solicitors Pearse & Fitzgibbon, based in Listowel, Co Kerry, which acts as a debt collector for the NRA, has been sending out hundreds of final- warning letters since late January informing motorists that unless they pay, they will have a judgment registered in the courts. If motorists refuse to pay, the solicitors will issue a civil summons to the toll evader.

A decree for the amount owed will be issued by the Courts Service, which could result in the debt being registered which could impact on the motorist's credit record.

Failure to pay could see motorists jailed for up to six months or face fines of up to €5,000.

The NRA said that outstanding tolls and penalties would be pursued, except in exceptional circumstances.

Motorists would be given up to three weeks to settle their accounts and after that a summons would be issued.

- Paul Melia

Link - http://www.independent.ie/national-news/end-of-the-road-for-toll-dodgers-1643163.html