Who is going to be in the IAA now.

ED E

iceage wrote: »

Agreed Vtec, one incident and all hell breaks loose. guys ,you'd think with all the bother that has arisen about bringing AEG's in from the far east you'd be pleased that we have responsible retailers to do this for us. Its now costing more, and with delays and everthing it makes more sense to support our inland retailers, which ever you choose. If there is or was an exception, they have, and will sort it out, so stop the knocking guys. this isn't helping anyone.

(by the way, as of this time, I am still the only twit logged onto the IAA website! so where are you lot?, probably in the pub:o)

Well, we were on IRC but we we're a bit off the topic of the IAA as usual..

iceage

I know, i was in there as well..no sign of any of these bods in there....

Iceage resting case.....

So, without addressing Any of the original posters to this thread....what do we all reckon to the life expectancy of Airsoft in Ireland??

I'd like to think it has a future, but thats just me.... comments on a postcard, to.

" I love Airsoft and hope it has a future in Ireland"

Santa's Kingdom.
North Pole.
Top of the world.

I stand corrected, Mad Ozzie is in there!!!

Masada

iceage wrote: »

I know, i was in there as well..no sign of any of these bods in there....

Iceage resting case.....

So, without addressing Any of the original posters to this thread....what do we all reckon to the life expectancy of Airsoft in Ireland??

I'd like to think it has a future, but thats just me.... comments on a postcard, to.

" I love Airsoft and hope it has a future in Ireland"

I cant see it going anywhere to be honest, and in actuall fact the initial purpose of the IAA was the secure the future of airsoft in ireland and in fairness to the lads they did a good job of it, what with meeting with the DOJ and the whole lot.,:)

Chuck the Buck

For what it is I'd say it'll always be a fringe sport (like paintball) and there'll never be a huge number playing. The biggest threat to it is the fact that the aegs and GBBs look so realistic (more real than the real thing sometimes!) and in time we'll have something like the vcra (the right name for it?) over here.

But if you look at paintball and the expense and hassle with having to get a license or letter from the local garda and it's still around. Hell you even see people (and sexy models too) advertising it outside St Stephens Green shopping centre!!! Airsoft just needs more media exposure (of the good kind - tv shows using it and the like) and some more time to grow and it may even replace paintball! After all we can own our own aegs!

Rhinocharge

Whether people agree or disagree doesn't matter. Whether the IAA is right or wrong doesnt matter. What matters is the sporting community as a whole uniting together behind their sport.
If you don't like how things are done then change them. It's a democracy afterall.

Is anyone willing to meet to discuss same on mass?
A meeting of the community, not of independant groups.

bullets

Well I joined ages ago, and also paid my money etc
I reckoned at the time it was better to be a member than a non member
as It could to no harm. I'm still awaiting an ID card.

I'm still of the opinion its better to be a member than a non member.

My main reason for joining was to get the ID card in reality and be part of some official organisation with the specific reason if I ever ran into some igornance with the side of the law thinking airsoft was not legal then I would have proof of could contact an association that would fight my corner or have an offical body to prove that airsoft equipment was legal........but.......
its been said the ID card is not a "get out of jail free card" which is true
but it may help being a member rather than being in a situation where
you have to justify having a load of replica/imitation guns to the cops.

I have real guns and have a licence for each of them but I think
if my Local Crime Prevention Officer or Firearms officer saw my collection
of Airsoft Equipment they would have a heart attack and either think
they needed to be placed in a secure safe or think I was mentally unstable
and a gun nut. Again a IAA membership card would be a handy thing
to show them or some contact with an offical body to explain things
to them is good.

As a collector rather than a skirmisher I dont have to worry about
transporting AEG or in general being seen with one by a member of the
public what I do worry about is changes to Irish Law which places resrictions
on what and what I cannot buy or all of a sudden needing to have a bright
Pink AEG or see-through or worse case scenario a Licence. All of this
I see the IAA being able to Help.

With that said I am skeptical of the IAA. (no offense intended)
Everytime there is a mention of it here its almost like Taboo!
Why exactly is that??? There must be a reason??
there is a pressure that we cannot even say boo about it or question anything about it without getting a thread
lock or being told goto the offical IAA webpage, goto the AGM and do something about it, Mods Mods lock this someones talking about the IAA.... on boards.ie etc etc etc.

At this stage Its a refreshing change to have an IAA discussion thread not locked

Why should we need to goto the offical page when the roots and all the Irish Airsoft discussion more or less orginated right here on this board.

I'm quite happy to discuss everyhing airsoft related right here.
Why because the majority of people I think read here first and
not the other websites.

All the people that winge and moan are venting frustrations and trying
to get them out in the open! which is healthy rather than leaving a build up
of reservations boil over and expolde one of the days.

AGMs! Mmmmmm I'm not going to have the time to travel all the way up to Dublin and sit in a room talking to strangers for something that is one of many
interests I have (I assume an AGM will be a Dublin based thing and not any other county) Its far more easier to discuss things and vote on the internet or even have a live chat of live speak! or minutes of meetings.
Saves everyone country wide the hassle of travel.

Out if interest are there any NON Dublin region people in charge of the IAA?
wondering if there a representitives from other counties across Ireland for the
IAA.

To be a member you sign something similar like Terms and Conditions
or guidelines which are all so far practical sense like dont brandish an Airsoft device in Public or use one to shoot at animals etc etc All good common sense which is well and good. What worries me is "IF" more and more things
get added to this where by its getting to a stage where in order to be affiliated with the IAA you MUST conform to A, B, C, D etc and they
start telling you what to do and become some Power Hungry Regamine
where if you dis-agree with something your out.

The whole Laser thing ticked me off becuse I've always been of
the opinion that Laser pointers mounted to either a real firearm or an
airsoft device were not specifically Illeagal. Here on this board
we could not even discuss them without getting a thread lock
and the IAA took the side of Caution on the topic Fortunatly there was
clarification on the whole debate thanks to Derek from MIA and also the IAA.

But It got me thinking what if there was no clarification and the IAA decided
that in order to be affiliated with them you could not use Laser sights on
your Airsoft Equipment. What if they started telling retailers what
they could and could not sell them..

I have nothing against the IAA at all. I dont know any of the members
personally or in fact anyone thats on this board personally.

Over time there I have been gettting more and more of a negative vibe
from people in general about the IAA. Nothing specific but more of a "vibe"
I see hints of it from reading the threads where more and more people appear
to be wondering about it. With the Falling out between MIA and IAA
and also the incident of the IAA members at the Gathering who were IAA members but not Representing the IAA at that time it may have got blown all
out or proportion when reading it all here from a chair behind a computer
your hearing more and more as time goes on less postive things said about it.
Wondering is it smoke without fire? or is there no smoke without fire.

Now people may say why dont I goto an AGM or do something positive.
Being Honest I cold not be arsed. Im a lazy hyprocritical person
and would rather see others do all the hard work for me!
Airsoft it one of Many Interests to me and certainly does not control my entire life and its not my most important interest. Other than collecting things that Look like real guns to represent its real steel counterpart and being able to safely have a bit of fun and also being able if I choose to to partisapate in the sport I'm happy out.

Right now for me....I will stay a member and adhere to their guidelines
as for now they all make perfect sense. But for some reason that I
cant explain or put my finger on I keep getting some gut uneasyness feeling
about the future of the IAA.

~B

MacAonghusa

vtec wrote: »

I cant see it going anywhere to be honest, and in actuall fact the initial purpose of the IAA was the secure the future of airsoft in ireland and in fairness to the lads they did a good job of it, what with meeting with the DOJ and the whole lot.,:)

Sorry, can you clarify as I'm confused? If they did a good job of securing airsoft's future why can't you see it going anywhere?

kdouglas

I would assume vtec means it's not going anywhere, as in, it's here to stay.

Alot of members here weren't around in the early days of this forum, before any meetings were held with the DoJ, there was still always the thought in the back of alot of people's minds that Airsoft could be so easily wiped out by one tiny little change to the Criminal Justice Act 2006, once the IAA met with the DoJ and were consulted on the new firearms legislation (which is to be drawn up soon) we were able to say that Airsoft will not be wiped out so easily. So next time people ask what has the IAA done for me recently? Well, they've secured the presence of Airsoft in this country for the foreseeable future, and you can still play it whenever you want without any licence or restrictions, so be grateful for that.

Bullets: I understand your reservations, why there is so much animosity towards the IAA on this forum I really dont know, alot of people developed the (incorrect) opinion that the IAA controls this forum and got pissed off and blamed them when threads about lasers were locked or other such nonsense.

Regarding the AGM in Dublin, we had the issue before, the main population centre is Dublin, the majority of members are located there and also it is the easiest place in Ireland to get to via public transport. Although there are alot of members outside of Dublin, primiarly in Cork and Galway, it does not make sense to move a meeting away from the majority to satisfy the minority.

The whole lasers thing always seemed to upset a lot of people, personally I was never bothered because I see them as being fairly pointless, but the reason for it was that in the early days of this forum, before the IAA existed, some of the real steel shooters expressed a concern that lasers which could be fitted to an Airsoft and hence, also real steel, would be deemed illegal, so it was added to the charter of this forum that discussion was not allowed due to questionable legality, this was to protect the owners of this website, not any vested interest from the IAA as so many people like to assume, however when the IAA came along, they adopted this position as to ignore it would be irresponsible after such concerns had be made clear.
During a meeting with the DoJ last year, the IAA committee were asked about lasers by the DoJ and explained this stance, at the time they did not give any indication either way but they agreed it was best to err on the side of caution. It took a long time to get the issue cleared up, and in my own opinion, this was likely becausee no one in the DoJ really knew either and no one wanted to say officially whether they were/werent illegal.

Quite often in the past, threads like this have been locked because they just turn into flame-wars or people bitching and moaning about things based on hearsay and paranoia, not sure whether my warning at the start helped or not, but everyone seems to be behaving for a change, so that's the reason this thread hasn't been locked like previous ones.

TheDoc

i think its an interesting topic and something that should be discussed..so that people can be informed and get a realistic view on the topic.

As most of you know i play golf, and the gui, the governing body of the sport in ireland, is perfectly run. They organise many tournaments between different clubs, they maintain the integrity of the sport, they run courses and training, they provide you with a card that allows you to build credit, and when you can use it like a debit card in any clubhouse.

But this organisation has been runnning for decades, nearly 100 years.

The IAA has started off by focusing on the main topic, and thats establishing stablility and acceptance to a sport that has contraversy labelled all over it for the general public.

They work voluntarely to try prolong the sport. But the gui has over 200 full time paid employees to run it, the iaa has 4-6 non paid people( if im correct)

I personally am not a member, and i wont be for a while because the idea of joining a sporting governing body is that it gives you something back also.

Discount in stores, discount on sites, leagues, tournaments etc etc

I think alot of people who have a go at the iaa etc are very underknowledged or just have a personal agenda... the fai have been working away for over 100 years and they are still brutal.

For a sport that has just started, the main goal is to get steady and prolong the future of the sport...which has being done for the forseable future.

MacAonghusa

kdouglas wrote: »

I would assume vtec means it's not going anywhere, as in, it's here to stay.

Ok, i'd understand it different. maybe he can confirm.

kdouglas wrote: »

once the IAA met with the DoJ and were consulted on the new firearms legislation (which is to be drawn up soon) we were able to say that Airsoft will not be wiped out so easily. So next time people ask what has the IAA done for me recently? Well, they've secured the presence of Airsoft in this country for the foreseeable future, and you can still play it whenever you want without any licence or restrictions, so be grateful for that.

Maybe you can clarify that for the benefit of ppl who don't know the history. What exactly did the IAA do? Did they get the legislation changed or just meet with the DOJ to understand what changes the DOJ were making anyway?

If the former then the IAA are to be congratulated; if the latter then what exactly was their input?

kdouglas wrote: »

Regarding the AGM in Dublin, the majority of members are located there ... it does not make sense to move a meeting away from the majority to satisfy the minority.

I wonder is that still the case. It would be interessting to see some figures. I'd say (obviously it's a guess) that there are as many if not more airsofters outside of Dublin as there are in Dublin so in the long run it would be better for the association to look at AGMs outside of Dublin.

Masada

MacAonghusa wrote: »

Sorry, can you clarify as I'm confused? If they did a good job of securing airsoft's future why can't you see it going anywhere?

yep as KD said, what i ment was airsoft was a loophole in the law that allowed us to own these guns legally, without the IAA doing the footwork in the background it could have very quickly been patched up to have airsoft deemed illegal.,.

kdouglas

MacAonghusa wrote: »

Ok, i'd understand it different. maybe he can confirm.



Maybe you can clarify that for the benefit of ppl who don't know the history. What exactly did the IAA do? Did they get the legislation changed or just meet with the DOJ to understand what changes the DOJ were making anyway?

If the former then the IAA are to be congratulated; if the latter then what exactly was their input?

The original change (August 2006) was brought about by the Garda Firearms Bureau, I believe, as they were getting tired of being sent silly little things for testing, before then, even a kids potato gun, or a nerf gun, could be considered a firearm in this country (by legal definition).

The input the IAA had, was to meet with the DoJ, who knew very little about airsoft at the time, and give their input into any potential changes in the law, had this meeting not happened and the IAA not been present, then the DoJ very simply would have ignored airsoft in any future changes to the firearms legislation, potentially making it illegal once again.

MacAonghusa wrote: »

I wonder is that still the case. It would be interessting to see some figures. I'd say (obviously it's a guess) that there are as many if not more airsofters outside of Dublin as there are in Dublin so in the long run it would be better for the association to look at AGMs outside of Dublin.

http://irishairsoft.ie/map/

There ya go, you'll notice (even more so if you zoom in) that the highest concentration of player's is in Dublin, I'm sure there are probably more players outside of Dublin than there are in Dublin in total, but is still has the highest concentration.

Tigger

any chance of the agm minutes?

since we're on the topic

gandalf

MacAonghusa wrote: »

Maybe you can clarify that for the benefit of ppl who don't know the history. What exactly did the IAA do? Did they get the legislation changed or just meet with the DOJ to understand what changes the DOJ were making anyway?

My understanding is the committee met with the DoJ to help them clarify what airsoft is etc. and I think as KD said to help with consultation on the new Firearms act. Sounds like they have helped for the moment to ensure we don't go the way of the UK with licenses or bright pink AEG's.

As I say as I am not a member of the committee I cannot answer that for definite.

I wonder is that still the case. It would be interessting to see some figures. I'd say (obviously it's a guess) that there are as many if not more airsofters outside of Dublin as there are in Dublin so in the long run it would be better for the association to look at AGMs outside of Dublin.

Well there may be more airsofters but the vital statistic here is members, it comes back to that vicious circle. If you don't join nothing changes. As a Dublin based Airsofter I have no issues going to another location in the country for the AGM if thats where the numbers are, but then again I drive so its not a major issue for me (bar asking the Fiancée if I can have the time off!).

Masada

kdouglas wrote: »

http://irishairsoft.ie/map/

There ya go, you'll notice (even more so if you zoom in) that the highest concentration of player's is in Dublin, I'm sure there are probably more players outside of Dublin than there are in Dublin in total, but is still has the highest concentration.

I was just about to post that,
its far easier for everyone to get to dublin than it is for them to get to say, cork or galway, having it down the country somewhere could mean multiple bus transfers for people who live in other parts of the country,.,

MacAonghusa

kdouglas wrote: »

The input the IAA had, was to meet with the DoJ, who knew very little about airsoft at the time, and give their input into any potential changes in the law, had this meeting not happened and the IAA not been present, then the DoJ very simply would have ignored airsoft in any future changes to the firearms legislation, potentially making it illegal once again.

Ok thanks. well done to those involved then.

kdouglas wrote: »

I'm sure there are probably more players outside of Dublin than there are in Dublin in total, but is still has the highest concentration.

First you said numbers, now concentration. It's a numbers game really, IMO, and therefore it would be good/advisable, IMO, to hold an AGM outside of the capital for the benefits of other members.

MacAonghusa

vtec wrote: »

I was just about to post that,
its far easier for everyone to get to dublin than it is for them to get to say, cork or galway, having it down the country somewhere could mean multiple bus transfers for people who live in other parts of the country,.,

It ain't difficult for anyone to get to the midlands for example. Just a suggestion.
If I personally had to drive 3+ hours for every AGM i'd eventually get peeved off; if that journey was reduced every other year it might be no harm. If it was timed to coincide with an airsoft event then I wouldn't mind travelling further the odd year.

MacAonghusa

gandalf wrote: »

Well there may be more airsofters but the vital statistic here is members, it comes back to that vicious circle. If you don't join nothing changes.

Fine; but the impression given a number of times on threads (and from talking to people) is that an AGM outside of Dublin is not an option. To appeal to members further afield the IAA should be more proactive and arrange the next AGM outside of Dublin. That'd be my opinion anyway.

kdouglas

Numbers and concentration of those numbers comes into it. Like I said, there are probably more members outside of Dublin than there are in Dublin, but they are spread all over the country, so where do you hold it?
Have the AGM in Cork and it's a pain to get to for anyone in Galway and is a hell of a drive from Dublin.
Have it in Galway and it's the same for people from Cork.

The midlands can actually be more difficult to get to than Dublin, for people in certain parts of the country it would require getting a bus to Dublin first and then another bus to the destination.

No matter where you hold it, someone is going to be inconvenienced. I personally have no problem getting to the midlands or most other places in the country since I drive, but if I were to rely on public transport, I wouldn't fancy it.

Anyway, the issue of where the next AGM should be held is off-topic for this thread, however perhaps you can address the committee directly via the website or email and make a suggestion for where the AGM should be.

gandalf

MacAonghusa wrote: »

Fine; but the impression given a number of times on threads (and from talking to people) is that an AGM outside of Dublin is not an option. To appeal to members further afield the IAA should be more proactive and arrange the next AGM outside of Dublin. That'd be my opinion anyway.

Ah I see you're a Kevin Costner man, "if you build it, they will come"

Its a chicken and egg situation, as I said I have no problem with it being outside Dublin at all. My god it may even be an excuse for a pissup

The thing is the AGM won't be a place to recruit as such, members need to be be members for a least a month if memory serves me right (I am open to correction here!).

I think the main thing is join and see if you can get the changes in place that you want. I am not sure if proxy voting will be allowed this time, I know it was discounted as last December was the first AGM.

MacAonghusa

kdouglas wrote: »

... but they are spread all over the country, so where do you hold it?

Any location will be a pain for some people, including (or especially) Dublin, so you change the location to make it easier on some people. Just a suggestion, if you want members it's worth considering.

If I join the IAA I will make my suggestions to them.

kdouglas

Yea, but no matter where you change the location to, some people are going to be inconvenienced, so if the numbers show the majority are in Dublin, then it makes sense to have it there as you are going to inconvenience less people. If the majority of the membership was concentrated in Cork or Galway, or even Leitrim or something, then the meeting would be held there, but it's not.

In time, when membership numbers and regional sub-committee's are large enough, then I'd *personally* like to see smaller meetings taking place at a regional level, but at the moment, the organisation just isn't big enough.

ED E

The IAA have our addresses in their database. If any of the comitee members has a minute it would be nice if you could just list the number of members in each county. Give us an idea where everyone is.

MacAonghusa

gandalf wrote: »

Its a chicken and egg situation

I don't think it is, tbh.

gandalf wrote: »

I think the main thing is join and see if you can get the changes in place that you want. I am not sure if proxy voting will be allowed this time, I know it was discounted as last December was the first AGM.

Which is another thing; if they won't consider a location change they need to be flexible and allow proxy voting. If i'm not going to get a vote (assuming I can't travel which is often the case these days) why join? Maybe the assoc. needs to be regionalised. I might join if I knew my "local rep" was there to represent me. It's probably being suggested before but it's also worth considering.

MacAonghusa

kdouglas wrote: »

Yea, but no matter where you change the location to, some people are going to be inconvenienced, so if the numbers show the majority are in Dublin, then it makes sense to have it there as you are going to inconvenience less people. If the majority of the membership was concentrated in Cork or Galway, or even Leitrim or something, then the meeting would be held there, but it's not.

I can't say I agree with that but if we all agreed on everything wouldn't life be boring.

MacAonghusa

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

The IAA have our addresses in their database. If any of the comitee members has a minute it would be nice if you could just list the number of members in each county. Give us an idea where everyone is.

Which will give locations of current members; are they not planning to recruit any new members?

My point is essentially that any good organisation needs to be planning for change (growth) not reacting to it. Proactive not reactive.

gandalf

MacAonghusa wrote: »

Which is another thing; if they won't consider a location change they need to be flexible and allow proxy voting. If i'm not going to get a vote (assuming I can't travel which is often the case these days) why join? Maybe the assoc. needs to be regionalised. I might join if I knew my "local rep" was there to represent me. It's probably being suggested before but it's also worth considering.

Yep as an ordinary Joe Soap that all seems reasonable. I'd suggest you post that query on the IAA forum as they are the best people to answer this. I think they do want regional reps but they are obviously having issues filling the roles maybe due to lack of members from those areas. Can't really appoint a regional rep if one you don't have members there and two if they don't volunteer.

From my perspective there seems to be a bit of a log jam in getting info out from the IAA on what the plans are and what they need from the members (ok bar the subscription which I will try and sort this weekend!).

nonex

cork has a regional rep, if i remember, but as paul said they would need volunters

weeder

MacAonghusa wrote: »

Fine; but the impression given a number of times on threads (and from talking to people) is that an AGM outside of Dublin is not an option. To appeal to members further afield the IAA should be more proactive and arrange the next AGM outside of Dublin. That'd be my opinion anyway.

lads ive only skimmed over this thread but god, this was brought up and put to bed months ago, this is an IAa specific woe which has nothing to do with the topic of this thread and should be on the iaa forum, actually i havent a clue what the topic of this thread is about :eek:

nonex

and they cant be doing to bad, as they got irish airsoft in the AI mag for one of the frist big game's we ran, and we where only a year airsofting there are airsoft site's a round the world running years that have not got in to the mag, so thats not bad for one of the smallests airsoft groups in the world.
sorry for the bad spelling.