Boxer win Irish DTT, but pull out.

DMC

Aye, you read right....

Boxer DTT wins digital tv contracts
http://www.rte.ie/business/2008/0721/digital.html
Monday, 21 July 2008 16:27

The Broadcasting Commission of Ireland has awarded the three national digital terrestrial television contracts to the Boxer DTT consortium. Boxer includes Communicorp and BT.

Two other consortia had applied for the licences - Easy TV - involving RTE and UPC - and One Vision which includes TV3, Setanta and Eircom.

The BCI said the awarding of the contracts is subject to clarifications and the successful outcome of contract negotiations, which will take place in the coming months.
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Applying for the licences, Boxer had said it would offer prices below €10 a month and will allow viewers to top up their channel selections 'a la carte'. It said there will also be a 'pay as you go' option for its pay channels.

channelsurfer

Boxer TV line up (per their submission)
Starter Pack FTA + 7 channels ��9.99 per month
• RTÉ ONE
• RTÉ TWO
• TV3
• TG4
• BBC 1
• BBC 2
• UTV
• C4
• Discovery
• Eurosport
• BBC News 24
Boxer pack Starter Pack + 11 channels ��22.99 per month
• Sky One
• Living
• Sky News
• Film4
• MTV (time sharing with Nickelodeon)
• Nickleodeon (time sharing with MTV)
• Disney
• E4
• Setanta Ireland
• BBC Ireland (new channel based on BBC 3, BBC 4, CBeebies & CBBC)
• ITV Ireland (new channel based on ITV 2, ITV 3 and ITV 4)
Premium Pack Sport and/or Film additional ��24.99 each per month
• 3 x sports channels
- Either from Setanta or Sky or rights holders direct
• 3 x movie channels
- Either from Sky or UPC or rights holders direct
1
2
3
SPORTS 1
SPORTS 2


for anyone that didnt know, this is what they propose to provide.

for 9.99 they will have very few takers In my opinion, but thats just because I would have thought one visions offering was way ahead in terms of channel offerings for 9.99.

I predict it is doomed, but I am open to correction if any wiser scholar can convince me otherwise.

radiospan

Sorry for being very uninformed on what the three applicants were offering, but does this mean an end for HD Ireland for now?

pa990

i think i'll go for freesat and save myself 9.99.

And if i want to pay /view anymore i'll get a sky sub.

I think a lot of people will be thinking the same as me

Mayo Exile

Aren't RTE 1, RTE 2, TG4 and TV3 being provided anyway free of charge, (regardless of Boxer winning the license), under RTE's own public service obligations?

Propellerhead

channelsurfer wrote: »

Boxer TV line up (per their submission)
Starter Pack FTA + 7 channels ��9.99 per month
• RTÉ ONE
• RTÉ TWO
• TV3
• TG4
• BBC 1
• BBC 2
• UTV
• C4
• Discovery
• Eurosport
• BBC News 24
Boxer pack Starter Pack + 11 channels ��22.99 per month
• Sky One
• Living
• Sky News
• Film4
• MTV (time sharing with Nickelodeon)
• Nickleodeon (time sharing with MTV)
• Disney
• E4
• Setanta Ireland
• BBC Ireland (new channel based on BBC 3, BBC 4, CBeebies & CBBC)
• ITV Ireland (new channel based on ITV 2, ITV 3 and ITV 4)
Premium Pack Sport and/or Film additional ��24.99 each per month
• 3 x sports channels
- Either from Setanta or Sky or rights holders direct
• 3 x movie channels
- Either from Sky or UPC or rights holders direct
1
2
3
SPORTS 1
SPORTS 2


for anyone that didnt know, this is what they propose to provide.

for 9.99 they will have very few takers In my opinion, but thats just because I would have thought one visions offering was way ahead in terms of channel offerings for 9.99.

I predict it is doomed, but I am open to correction if any wiser scholar can convince me otherwise.

This is utter ****e.

Cramming BBC3 and 4 into one channel?
Cramming the extra ITVs into one channel?
Charging double to get the Free to Air Film 4 and Sky News?

Are these people insane or more likely haven't a bull's notion what they are doing?

I'm keeping my test box for widescreen RTE and I'll be installing a Freesat PVR by hook or by crook for the rest when they come out

channelsurfer

I think they are completly insane (the channel line up) and boxer will be lucky to have 25,000 subscribers by year 3.

If you look at it you will be paying 9.99 for 2 channels... discovery and eurosport.. the other channels are available fta by either aerial or digital satelitte.

In my opinion, this is doomed from the start. There's nothing there that will make someone choose Boxer over Sky or UPC, except maybe those who can't install a dish. I think that since ITV Digital failed, this doesn't stand a chance.

Elmo

Why did all applicates suggest that RTE 1, 2, TV3 and TG4 are part of their basic packages? Plus OTV and IFB Channel. And RTE plan RTE 3, RTE 1+1

All of these channels are FTA: FREE TO AIR.

I am surprised communicorp got it but I guess it means that someone other then RTE, UPC, Eircom are in the market.

scath

I have to agree guys. I think the their proposed offering won't go down well. I emailed em as such. January 2009 is the proposed date so that's good. But forget about T2 boxes. As others have said, we can wait til 2012 and just get a box exchange. I think if they go ahead with the offering, that Sky will just blow them out with an all singing all dancing 'get free UK channels' for €150 and UTV.

I expect with the deal with Boxer, that Freesat UK will stay out of the Irish market. On the bright side, boxes are to be offered free.

I think, they'll have to try and see low uptake of their offering. Then they'll retool, give partial refunds and retool along the lines of Onevision.

Why boxer? Probably and I'm not in the know but, Boxer involves not having a UK centric broadcaster in the bids or big telco like Eircom and not having UPC dominating.

Apart from BT, Boxer brings in new entrants to the TV business such as Boxer AB. The logical extension would be a bid by Communcorp for Eircom and a triple play company with different brands ie Eircom, radio stations, Meteor, Boxer.

Onevision was a chance for Setanta to get in against Sky. They're the main loser. A lost business opportunity for TV3.

Well when charged UK channels become public unless retooled I see Sky as the winners, unless Boxer change their plans which the can. An interesting article in http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/article/11062/digital-life/the-end-of-tv-as-we-know-it

The article by Sorcha Corcoran, talks about the the 'Gadgetiers or Cool Kids' presumably that's us and the lean back passiver people who should lead to the end of one size fits all TV. "Gadgetiers’ and ‘Kool Kids’ as they call them – will lead us to a world of platform-agnostic content, fluid mobility of media experiences, individualised pricing schemes and an end to the traditional concept of release windows." "To both protect current and grow future revenues, the report (IBM services) recommends leading companies do the following: dynamically profile consumer groups; tailor products and services by segment; cost-effectively operate tandem channels; and end the ‘one-size-fits-all’ marketing approach."

Mayo Exile

Originally posted by scath: But forget about T2 boxes

Would appear to be so, if they are claiming to be on air by January 2009.
Highly optimistic if you look at their some of their own implementation documents:

http://www.bci.ie/DTT/boxer/licencea_section8_print.pdf

The main "big" masts are scheduled for rollout by Q2 2009. Which could any date up to June 30th 2009? These will cover the main urban centres of population. That would leave them using current DVB-T/MPEG4 technology.

Original reaction from posters here is largely negative. Would agree with this. If all you want to pay is your TV license, then RTE's own public service MUX plus a dish and a UK Freesat box, makes most of Boxer's basic package redundant. Also non-Freesat mode on these boxes will get you Sky News plus other channels too.

L1011

Can see this happening:

1: RTE mux launches as planned next month and rolls out slowly, probably in tandem with DAB
2: Boxer gets delayed
3: And again
4: Boxer launches off Three Rock, Spur Hill, Woodcock Hill in about 2010
5: Boxer hit the wall in about 2012 after never having expanded their network due to low takeup....

Dave 2008

MYOB wrote: »

Can see this happening:

1: RTE mux launches as planned next month and rolls out slowly, probably in tandem with DAB
2: Boxer gets delayed
3: And again
4: Boxer launches off Three Rock, Spur Hill, Woodcock Hill in about 2010
5: Boxer hit the wall in about 2012 after never having expanded their network due to low takeup....

Spot on!

This is doomed to absolute failure. The only thing commercially viable about DTT (apart from maybe add on premium sports channels a la UK DTT), is the value of each of the channel slots. The business model should be broadcasting all basic channels for FREE, and charging said broadcasters a fee for getting on the scarce resource that is DTT......then again maybe that's the eventual plan anyway.

Boxer = ITV Digital Mark II

pa990

we've been waiting since the mid to late 90's for dtt

We could be waiting till the early to mid 20's for T2

byte

BCI wrote:

The Commission considered the applications received from three consortia and has awarded the contracts in principle to Boxer DTT Limited.

The award of the contracts is subject to clarifications and the successful outcome of contract negotiations, which will take place in the coming months.

There is a small hope that contract negotiations fall through.

I can only echo the negative comments made by others, and do feel it'll be ITV digital +1, FAIL! Maybe they'll revise their strategy...

I wonder if anyone in BCI read these boards.

scath

I see Canal+ are launching DTT usb sticks. This would be a strong part of a DTT business strategy to increase subs see:http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/?p=5662. That is if they can revise the tier offering. Top up and a la carte is grand and the free box is good but my thinking is that broadcasters may push for FTA as a more successful option so I'd expect that Boxer will see the light and change as required. Any company that does poorly changes or fails. What you could find is that as subs fail, that the sports channels remain pay and the rest becomes free-to-air being carriage fees to boxer.

I think that they'll have learned enough from ITV Digital to test the Irish consumer, see how technologically inept or not they are. This will come down to Sky and whether they launch a FTA as an option with 'Free UK channels'. I still expect UPC to combo with Boxer, in fact they may want to buy into the Boxer consortium and drop their cable channels in return, converting their cable offering into other channels. Perhaps that won't happen but their could be combos, otherwise they'll begin to lose customers.

Also some consumers will look at Boxer's tiers and say, nah...same price as UPC I'll stay. UPC might take three's broadband lead and begin offering top-up options but with installation charges for DTV. Sky could do the same.

Boxer's future lies in becoming a half free-to-air platform half premium channel platform ie sport/Films/Adult as premium.

So I don't think they'll become ITV Digital and fail. I think it just be a different Boxer from the mainlypay mainly option. The pressure will come from failing subs and the desire of UK broadcasters to go FTA and get more advertising reach. Determining will be how quick Boxer will see the light or how the current tiers drives people to FTA satellite and in this regard Boxer would be well advised to combo with satellite perhaps Freesat UK in order to keep Sky out and mitigate the low subs. Certainly this is something that RTÉ should be pushing for.

So I think we'll have a Boxer Freeview and Boxer Premium like the UK emerge around 2012/3. Maybe Boxer will buy up Top UP TV UK also going forward.

Elmo

Well as most of us either went for Easy TV or OneVision I some how don't think anyone in the BCI even know what boards is.

I am currently only interest in the new PSB services and perhaps some TV3 etc.

Channel 6, 3Today and 3Expose if they ever launch on DTT seem doomed to part of the basic package regardless of who go the licence.

I don't know why I am dissappointed at the announcement, I would have been dissappoint no matter who got this licence.

Perhaps I should just go back to hating TV3

Boxer's future lies in becoming a half free-to-air platform half premium channel platform ie sport/Films/Adult.

Have to agree with that, but I the only reason Boxer won't be come ITVDigitalIreland is only because of the ASO, just in the same way as their parent company has become so successful in Sweden.

Will RTE provide FTA settop boxes?

channelsurfer

i emailed the contact person in boxer with congratulations and a word of warning to change their policy but dont think they will take any notice.(the first contact person bounced back to my email as non existant)
i also informed them that they would do well to read this board as a matter of urgency to guage opinion of the wise people on here .
who knows maybe boxer are more clever than we think. But one statistic stands out.. in the first year of boxer in sweden they got 500 ...yes 500 subscribers.
they only suceeded cos the goverment heavily subsided them and promoted the switch off extensively.

crawler

well - at least they were fast out of the traps on the website

http://www.boxer.se/?page=1365 (also resolves http://www.boxer.ie)

scath

That site is up over a month now with the recent incarnation there 2 weeks. So they must have got indications from the BCI before today but just kept stum out of respect to the BCI. So you know, I think we overlooked that, but I was saying on the boards how curious it was that they were the only 1 of the three with a website up.

Also channelsurfer I spoke with that person 3 months ago, but the email has never worked. The other Irish contact works. I said the same a week ago re the offering. Better bet emailing the Swedish rather than Irish contact. More likely to listen I'd say. Y'know some Irish, know-it-all ego. I think they need to engage with those who contact them, generate positivity.

They've spoke in the proposals about Boxer customer service in Sweden, so they need to deliver on that and engage. True points about ASO avoiding failure unlike ITV Digital.

But you know, its a question of how soft the Irish consumer is on prices. Australia has now gone for Freeview model in recent days. This seems to be the successful model for the most part.

Maybe some Irish customers will show themselves soft. If so then Boxer may do well on the current plan. That's business. But some may not sign up. How many is the key question that will determine remodelling of the tiers.

I see Liberty looking to buy a stake in Boxer Irish DTT soon and buy into the consortium and also into Boxer's Danish, Irish and Swedish DTT to grow their business. I also see them going after Eircom to grow their UPC business as a telco.

I also see them do a deal with Denis O'Brien as part of a deal for Communicorp's radio interests.Perhaps they might also buy out Digicel and expand in that part of the world and expand Boxer in that part of the world.

Boxer AB could become a subsidiary of Liberty Global. This may give O'Brien an alternative for Digicel sale to Carlos Slim of Movil.

This could give Liberty growth potential securing UPC Ireland into the future with Cable-DTT combo and telecoms.

I expect TV3 to go for UTV as UTV3 (merged name using both brands) which could add NI programming to TV3 News and UTV News to TV3 enabling it to go head to head with RTÉ News.

In the process of acquiring Channel 6 this would solve programme rights issues to maximise advertising and to resolve programme rights and give it scale in programming for TV3 and an in into the radio business. Onevision was probably always for the benefit of Setanta against Sky.

In terms of rights it may do a deal with ITV to buy its programming from these channels under its 3 Expose channel with Channel 6 supplementing both 3 and 3 Expose. ITV may see more sense in rebuffing this for advertising reasons meaning Doughty might wish to launch a bid for ITV proper and extract economies for programme rights in both territories.

By buying UTV it gets into radio to grow its opportunities and also will have the NI advertising. Perhaps Doughty may take a stake in ITV and brand ITV Ireland as 3 Expose.

Perhaps O'Brien might buy into Liberty as an investor when he sells Digicel to Carlos Slim (second wealthiest person in the world) and run Communicorp and run Communicorp's and Boxers European interests and thus Eircom, Boxer and the radio side of the business as part of Liberty Global. As such it would be a merger of Communicorp, Digicel and Boxer into Liberty with O'Brien as a key Board member. He may well buy Boxer AB in the near term to grow his DTT interests.

See: http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/obrien-has-battle-on-his-hands-as-slim-moves-in-on-his-home-patch-1067214.html

and
http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=MARKETS-qqqm=nav-qqqid=34524-qqqx=1.asp

http://www.dtg.org.uk/news/news.php?class=countries&subclass=0&id=3061

This would gave Liberty huge scale in Europe as a telco-media networks company.

crawler wrote: »

well - at least they were fast out of the traps on the website

http://www.boxer.se/?page=1365 (also resolves http://www.boxer.ie)

MACHEAD

So the BCI have decided. We up north will be watching with bated breath to see what way things will pan out. Especially watching to see if the transponder arrangement on border sites (in my case Clermont Carn) will allow for 'overspill' a la analogue. Irrespective of what RTÉ carry on their MUX and whatever the commercial MUXes have to offer, if we can't get a decent signal up here from a rooftop aerial then regrettably we may be doomed to get irish TV solely from the Murdock's for the foreseeable future. Here's hoping we too can join in. As for T2, we'll probably get that up here late next year, perhaps there would be room to carry the RTÉ channels on that, one thing's for sure NO ONE will be buying anything until the technology is stabalised.

Rambo

Mayo Exile wrote: »

Aren't RTE 1, RTE 2, TG4 and TV3 being provided anyway free of charge, (regardless of Boxer winning the license), under RTE's own public service obligations?

They will

watty

Hmm. Not an outcome I would have thought, but I'd have rated them 2 after Liberty/RTE. However I didn't bet on it. Nor express a very strong opinion.

I have always said that given UPC's 700k+ households passed and Sky's already 450k+ subscribers and unknown number of FTA sat, that I could not see any viability of Pay DTT.

I predict 500,000 households with Free DTT simply for the free Irish channels and less than 100k PayTV subs in 5 years unless an imaginative change to the packages.

Certainly the packages have some dross and will BBC & ITV really permit the composite channels? I doubt it. The MTV/Nickleodeon time share is probably possible.

LivingTV????

Are movies AND sport (Both) then €50 on top of the whatever else you order?

dougdub

I cannot believe the government have fcuked this up good and proper!!

What happened to "freeview" we will only get the 4 stations free and pay for everything else??

This sums up everything that is wrong with this country! They will be charging us a minimum of e9.99 + cost of a box (e120ish) to watch channels which the majority are FREE on a satellite!! :eek:

swoofer

I think one thing we can be sure of is that they will cram as many channels as possible into the muxes so that we get the worst possible quality for lcd and plasma tv's.

gb--

Elmo

I expect TV3 to go for UTV as UTV3 (merged name using both brands) which could add NI programming to TV3 News and UTV News to TV3 enabling it to go head to head with RTÉ News.

UTV is a huge company in comparision to TV3, if anything UTV would buy into TV3 if it was up for sale. TV3's owners have put their eggs all into the one basket and have found if difficult to gain any ground outside of TV3. They will be hoping that it is just a case of TV3 being given 3TODAY or 3EXPOSE without any competition for the licence (IMO I don't think the BCI should give TV3 any more licences they have ruined the one they have). As soon as TV3 get those licences Doherty Hanson will put the channel up for sale.

I cann't imagine 3TODAY or 3EXPOSE being part of the pay packages for very long and will certainly be FTA in about a year.

So far we know the following channel will be FTA: -

RTE 1, 2, TV3, TG4, IFB Channel and OTV. With the possible extension of RTE services to include RTE 3 and RTE 1 +1

watty

After Analogue Switch off, UTV will only be the Internet & Radio / Media company. No Doubt they will make some programs for ITV. It's expected there will only be one ITV licence, not the current Analogue ones that have mostly been amalgamated.

So TV3 won't be buying UTV.

Also TV3 licence will expire not too far in future.

RTE & TG4 as PSBs are G'teed a future.

podgeandrodge

watty wrote: »

I predict 500,000 households with Free DTT simply for the free Irish channels and less than 100k PayTV subs in 5 years unless an imaginative change to the packages.

Am I correct in my understanding that RTE are rolling out a "freeview" of the basic channels and that this Boxer thing is another package altogether which just happens to be the same as the "freeview" with a couple of extra channels for 9.99?

Are RTE providing a set-top box that is a different box from what Boxer will be providing?

Thanks.

Elmo

Am I correct in my understanding that RTE are rolling out a "freeview" of the basic channels and that this Boxer thing is another package altogether which just happens to be the same as the "freeview" with a couple of extra channels for 9.99?

Are RTE providing a set-top box that is a different box from what Boxer will be providing?

Yes RTE1, 2, TG4, TV3 will be available free of charge on DTT, you will need either a settop box or a digital tuner to receive those channels. I am not sure that RTE will issue a Set top box or if you will have to go through Boxer to get a settop box.

IFB (Irish Film Bord) Channel and OTV (oireachtas TV) will also be part of the FREE TO AIR (FTA) line up.

RTE plan RTE 3 (a mix of old and new programming) and RTE 1 +1 also FTA.

Also TV3 licence will expire not too far in future.

LOL I think you mean that the BCI will be renewing the TV3 Licence when if finishes on 20th of September 2008

barnicles

IMO Boxer is doomed. Doomed I say:D

watty

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Am I correct in my understanding that RTE are rolling out a "freeview" of the basic channels and that this Boxer thing is another package altogether which just happens to be the same as the "freeview" with a couple of extra channels for 9.99?

Yes.

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Are RTE providing a set-top box that is a different box from what Boxer will be providing?

Thanks.

No.

Did RTE sell B&W TVs in 1962 or colour TVs later? I don't know. I moved from North in 1983. ITV/BBC/C4 never sold TVs. The Current Freeview and now Freesat while BBC sponsored design are not made or sold by any UK broadcaster.

You buy them in a shop or online. Some TVs with Digital Tuners will work. Don't expect anyone in a Shop to know which, or even if the TV has a digital tuner at all, or what the Native Resolution is or what method of de-interlacing is used.

It seems all they know is screen size. A Tesco manager apologised and said they get no training on it and are at the mercy of what it says on the packaging, which generally lists none of these things. It may say Widescreen or HDReady, but neither of those is useful info.

The Boxer boxes can also be bought from Boxer and I believe you can have a short subscription and then continue to get the 4 free channels, like the Sky Model (not cable where NTL/UPC own the bax, Sky box is owned by you from day 1).

Elmo

The Boxer boxes can also be bought from Boxer and I believe you can have a short subscription and then continue to get the 4 free channels, like the Sky Model (not cable where NTL/UPC own the bax, Sky box is owned by you from day 1).

And this is where the problem lies, people will just assume that they need to have boxer to get the FTA services and won't get rid of their Pay TV in 4 months time. Boxer should have to sell the settop boxes with an entry level fee i.e. Just FTA services with no charge (bar the cost of the Settop box), then the 9.99 monthly offer (with a reduced price settop box to make it more attractive) and then the premium rates.

Did RTE sell B&W TVs in 1962 or colour TVs later?

No but they did enter the cable market in the 70s. Remember people will be left without TV reception with ASO this was not the case when Colour TV came on the market. So its not really the same thing.

The ESB sold electrical goods and eircom rented out phones, and still sell phones. And most phone companies subsides their mobile phones.

ronan.michael@g

Propellerhead wrote: »

This is utter ****e.

Cramming BBC3 and 4 into one channel?
Cramming the extra ITVs into one channel?
Charging double to get the Free to Air Film 4 and Sky News?

Are these people insane or more likely haven't a bull's notion what they are doing?

I'm keeping my test box for widescreen RTE and I'll be installing a Freesat PVR by hook or by crook for the rest when they come out

Hi Propellerhead. Google and investigate the Technomate TM6900 Combo (Sat AND terrestrial digital receiver). Receiver purchased in the UK - slight drawback - external Maxtor hdrive for recordings - can't get mine to work consistently. HD a joy -- and BBC-HD free on "Freesat" on 28degrees including ITV/HD now and then. Also Luxe HD. Looking forward to Ch4- HD when it (hopefully) arrives in, perhaps, October.
(Must sort out my recording HDrive problem) More good news - comes as mpeg4. Slight drawback - comes with 1080i - would have liked 1080p as well
-- have I got that right? Is'nt 1080p the better system? Can't remember right now - a senior moment occuring! Cheers Michael r.

Mossy Monk

watty

No-one will be transmitting 1080p. Uses twice the data for same vertical and horizontal resolution.
"p" means progressive rather than "i" Interlaced, its twice the TEMPORAL resolution. More important in USA where you can't convert from film 24fps "p" to 30fps "i" without 3:2 pulldown artifacts. Hence the lower resolution 1440x720p popular in USA (not transmitted here) that uses almost exactly same transmission bandwidth as much sharper 1920x1080i

USA regular Digital is 720 x 480i and ours is 720x576i, hence 720 lines is much more of a step up than for us, hence broadcasts here in HD are 1080 lines. The 3:2 USA problem is why Progressive DVD players (480p) are popular there and fairly pointless here (slight advantage if you have component progressive DVD player and HD TV, but a decent BluRay DVD player will output progressive on the HDMI from regular DVDs).

Onikage

Sky are a broadcaster who are happy to sell you their own equipment but of course they have an agenda to sell more services. Can't imagine that RTE would want to get into the crowded DVB-T hardware market but who knows? They've done stranger things in the past.

watty

Sky are PayTV. RTE are not.

barnicles

Mossy Monk wrote: »

epic_fail.jpg

LOL

Onikage

watty wrote: »

Sky are PayTV. RTE are not.

If we ignore the yearly tv license fee then this is clearly true. But it's not unknown for subsidies to be granted by the public sector to encourage adoption, like the americans have done for their digital switchover. Isn't there a requirement that every Irish person is able to receive the public channels? I couldn't see a pay tv operator doing this without trying to bundle the free content with the paid-for content, which is what seems to be happening.

dgently

Onikage wrote: »

I couldn't see a pay tv operator doing this without trying to bundle the free content with the paid-for content, which is what seems to be happening.

Er, isn't that always what happens? How many of the top 5 channels on the Sky EPG are FTA?

What I find interesting is

1. Denis O'Brien just won another high profile competition for a communications license. The naysayers were out in force the last time too. If I had to back one of the bidders to make "Pay-DTT" popular and profitable, I'd back him.
2. How many of Sky Sports 100,000+ customers will be tempted by €10+Setanta price, available only from DTT.
3. Q2, for Sky Sports cable customers
4. How many Freesat users will turn to DTT for Setanta

The €10/month for a basic package of channels with a free STB is not bad at all. UPC are not the only sitting duck - Sky have about three employees in the Republic, pay not one cent in VAT or tax, selling an expensive service to a base of customers who suddenly have some high quality low cost alternatives.

I'd say Boxer have a fighting chance.

mumhaabu

So let me get this right, Boxer will launch a DTT Service with plans for a January 2009 launch.

OK so they will have a basic line up like below

Starter Pack FTA + 7 channels €9.99 per month
• RTÉ ONE
• RTÉ TWO
• TV3
• TG4
• BBC 1
• BBC 2
• UTV
• C4
• Discovery
• Eurosport
• BBC News 24

Only Discovery and Eurosport are Encrypted, (although Eurosport in German can still be got FTA on Analogue Satellite on 19°East) So basically you would be paying €9.99 for one channel.

However what I do like is that their will be FTA DTT channels such as, RTE1, RTE2, TV3, TG4, and the future planned channels such as IFB (Irish Film Bord) Channel and OTV (oireachtas TV), RTE3 (a mix of old and new programming) and RTE 1 +1. Added with RTE International on Satellite it will give a good range of FTA Irish programming.

Hopefully this FTA service will launch soon on DTT it would be great for people who have a poor analogue terrestrial reception. This service added with either a FREESAT box or FTA Satellite Receiver will give plenty of FTA Digital channels to watch.

I can't see Pay DTT being a success here (look at how ITVDigital went). The right way to market this is to get a DTT Receiver with a CI slot into every home with a good range of FTA channels like Freeview in the UK and then offer premium channels like Top Up Tv does in the UK, this would be a much more feasible option and would definitly give Sky a run for its money.

Regardless of what happens it is great to have competition and eventually break Sky's near monopoly of carrying RTE's channels digitally to Irish homes especially in the countryside, where UPC is not available. With RTE's channels on FTA DTT and the great offerings available with FREESAT or FTA satellite on 28° East I can see Sky being the real loser as loads of Irish pay TV customers have Sky only for RTE as their analogue terrestrial reception is so crap.

Anyone know when/if DTT will launch on the Mullaghanish transmitter?

scath

I hope they call that DTT chamption guy they have, Pat. Or how about they go with a female instead! I suppose Bob is okay too. But Pat is more familiar and Irish! I see they're still using this bleddy Terrestrial term. I doubt the public will warm to it. Can't they use the term 'aerial TV' instead. Everyone understands it. How many understand 'terrestrial'.Bleddy ET! Imagine a scene of the they with no reception asking their partner-'Oh, my TV isn't working, I wonder is it the 'terrestrial' that's broken or the box-haha...I hear the oldies ask in my imagination lol.

pH

I've some questions ...

What % of the population will be able to get this *without* an external aerial? I live in Clondalkin and any current analog RTE reception is shocking without a rooftop antenna, I was just wondering is DTT different and how many will need a man climbing on their roof and holes drilled to get it working.

Will all the UK "freeview" kit now be useless over here? So all the PVRs and TVs with built in receivers be useless ... leading on to

The Irish market is quite small, will Boxer make and sell their own boxes (a la Sky) or let others make them under license.

Will the FTA portion be open enough for a non-propriety PC solution to work, will CAMs be available, will you be able to get a PVR?

Are there any HD plans at all?

watty

I'd say mostly people in South Dublin via Three Rock (all on Cable and Dish already ), some in Dundalk (But they have huge outdoors for UK TV) and Bishopstown etc served by Spur Hill.

Not Sligo, Galway, Limerick, Athlone.

The boxes that Boxer needs are quite normal and standard. France and others using the same system. Sky wants to use it in UK instead of current Topup TV box.

It's likely the Neotion Module will work for existing TVs, and many branded DTT MPEG4 boxes with CI using compatible CAM. (The Neotion Module can take a viewing card and work as a CAM as well as converting the MPEG4 to MPEG2, though an MPEG4 set box gives better quality).


We need to wait and see which CAM they use. It won't be at all proprietary like SkyDigibox.

CAMs should be available to allow you to use a PC, Humax, Lyngbox, Reelbox, Topfield, Technisat and many other PVR solutions. Though PayTV, it's more like Sky/TopupTV DTT in UK service or TNT pay DTT in France than like Sky Satellite proprietary service.

They have to use MHEG5 EPG/Interactive. So PVRs with CAM will have EPG, unlike Satellite before FreeSat without Sky+

pa990

i'd imagine that Boxer will use the same or similar STB that they use in Sweden, (presuming sweden uses mpeg4)

Boxer ireland will be using viaaccess encryption, i dont know that encryption they use in sweden, but thats only a change of cam, not a big problem.

Or we could have similat box's to frances TNT, (they use mpeg4) it will only be a matter of rebranding it

watty

mumhaabu wrote: »

So let me get this right, Boxer will launch a DTT Service with plans for a January 2009 launch.

OK so they will have a basic line up like below

Starter Pack FTA + 7 channels €9.99 per month
• RTÉ ONE
• RTÉ TWO
• TV3
• TG4
• BBC 1
• BBC 2
• UTV
• C4
• Discovery
• Eurosport
• BBC News 24

No

RTÉ ONE RTÉ TWO TV3 TG4 extra RTE channels Oireachtas

Are not part of Boxer. They are provided by RTENL / RTE and there anyway, even if Boxer never launches.

I doubt they will be on more than 4 sites by Feb 2009, if at all.

weehamster

Anyone know when/if DTT will launch on the Mullaghanish transmitter?

Here are coverage maps that were submitted with Boxers application;
2Q - 2009
3Q - 2009
3Q - 2010
3Q - 2011
4Q - 2012
1Q - 2013


Now for my my 2 cents.

1 - Same rubbish, different platform. So the only choice on offer is watch it over an aerial instead of a dish or over cable/MMDS. There is really only one platform an that is Sky where Cable/MMDS and now DTT gets their channels from.

2 - Apart from the 4 main channels, out of the other 24 channels, only 1 is Irish. No other digital platform in Europe has such a disproportionate number of channels from outside a country. Welcome to the UK.

3 - Out of the other 24 'Pay-TV' channels, 10* are available on digital
satellite unscrambled, so they are free with no monthly subscriptions.

4 - Now that these UK channels are broadcasting from within ROI, do they now have to comply with Irish law regarding broadcasting, particularly advertising.


The only good side of DTT appears to be RTE's plan to offer more Irish channels. I hope when the other 2 muxes are up for grabs that RTE get them.


* BBC Ireland is a compilation of BBC 3, 4, Cbeebies, CBBC. ITV Ireland is a compilation of ITV 2, 3, 4, CITV. All of theses channels are available on digital satellite unscrambled, so they are free with no monthly subscriptions

DTTfan

Hi all,

I have been reading all the posts for sometime now and waiting for the right moment to reply, now that the decison has been finially revealled all i can say is that no matter who would have got the contract the majority of people here would have objections,

One vision, i am glad they didnt get it, thay have enough hold on the market and their offering would have been bad, their service even worse and we would have been dictated to.

Boxer were the obvious choice even without Mr O Brien, they have the experience, the back up and most importantly the technology and it works. Imagine the other 2 trying to get up to speed with that.

Comments about boxer being doomed???? Why,,,,, They now have to go to the table and put their plan into action, target the areas and rollout schedule, I would imagine that most of it is already done.

Now as for Ms Lucy Gaffney , speaking from New York, She hasnt got a clue, she is just a puppet on Mr O Briens arm, and instead of his hand up her,,,, shes well and truly <<<<<<<<<<<<<< need i say more.

The muscle in this partner ship is Boxer, they bring everything to the table and whats more Boxer DTT Ireland, will be run by real people from Ireland.

So guys come on accecpt it, this is going to happen, the east coast is going to loose the free signal they have no matter what and will have to pay for the service like the rest of us, NTL have had a good run at it and from my experience havent got the stamina or back up.

Now lets get on with it and welcome 2009 as a new era, i am looking forward to turning the TV on in my car and watching TV as I am driven around "!!!!

JT

DTTfan

From what i know Boxer have the latest boxes Mpg4, so you can either get a boxer direct from Boxer or thier listed agents ( DID, Currys etc) or when you buy a new TV you will only have to insert the card into the slot, thats my understanding but hey who am I to comment.

J

weehamster

Hi JT, Interesting 1st post

One vision, i am glad they didn't get it, they have enough hold on the market and their offering would have been bad, their service even worse and we would have been dictated to.

Boxer were the obvious choice even without Mr O Brien, they have the experience, the back up and most importantly the technology and it works. Imagine the other 2 trying to get up to speed with that

The reality is there really wasn't much a difference between them. I say is that the 10€ p/m price tag that won it for them.

Technology was already there between RTENL and BT who were running the trial. So it didn't matter who won. It still would have been MPEG4.

Comments about boxer being doomed???? Why,,,,, They now have to go to the table and put their plan into action, target the areas and rollout schedule, I would imagine that most of it is already done.

Other DTT platforms haver struggled with Pay TV on DTT. Boxer is one example and ITV digital is the best example of them all

The muscle in this partner ship is Boxer, they bring everything to the table

Well their operation in Sweden has been very slow to start. I think Sweden has a better package on offer than here. They are starting in Denmark on 1/09/09.

and whats more Boxer DTT Ireland, will be run by real people from Ireland.

I don't understand. What do you mean?

So guys come on accept it, this is going to happen, the east coast is going to loose the free signal they have no matter what

The PBS mux is free. Keep an eye on that one.

and will have to pay for the service like the rest of us

Who is this 'us' that you are referring to.

NTL have had a good run at it and from my experience havent got the stamina or back up.

NTL is now UPC, Europe's largest cable operator and backed by Liberty Global. And what is your experience exactly.

DTTfan

weehamster wrote: »

Hi JT, Interesting 1st post


The reality is there really wasn't much a difference between them. I say is that the 10€ p/m price tag that won it for them.

I would agree the price tag had a lot to do with it but i would also imagine the the experience good or bad also did it. I read the whole proposal and it was good, the others read ok, but in my opinion it was streets ahead.

Technology was already there between RTENL and BT who were running the trial. So it didn't matter who won. It still would have been MPEG4.

technology was already there, yes, but was it as strong or secure as the current software boxer have at the moment. We will never know.

Other DTT platforms haver struggled with Pay TV on DTT. Boxer is one example and ITV digital is the best example of them all

Isnt " Struggle " what makes things work.

Well their operation in Sweden has been very slow to start. I think Sweden has a better package on offer than here. They are starting in Denmark on 1/09/09.

Swedan started slow but has picked up the pace and is now successful, despite the glitches.

I don't understand. What do you mean?


The PBS mux is free. Keep an eye on that one.

Free, there are loads of free optons out there, the truth is that if someone wants the service they will pay for it, it probably will be a struggle at first but i reckon they ( Boxer DTT) will go all out to get the sevice out there.

Who is this 'us' that you are referring to.

"US" the paying public who currently pay for a TV service.

NTL is now UPC, Europe's largest cable operator and backed by Liberty Global. And what is your experience exactly.

NTL, UPC, Chorous whatever they like to be called is fine by me, I dont really care, my Experience of NTL , sorry UPC , over the past 20 years has been crap, back in the days when Sky could only be got if you re morgaged your house it was the only option by cable, and for the most part the signal was crap, and it always seemed to be the weathers fault. Chorous in thier own day provided a limited service by MMDS and it too was crap, I dont know how many times i had to top the trees, and to deal with them was even worse.

Now i am not saying Boxer DTT are going to have an easy ride , far from it, they are up against it, but with their history and Communicorps and in particular Mr O Brien's backing i cannot see them sitting back and waiting for the whole thing to happen.

My experience does not really matter, as this is all new to us all. Yes we have all probably seen the trial and even picked up the signals if we had a DTT box, if you are not a current Sky subscriber or Freeview freak then when you see what DTT has to offer you have to be impressed.

time will tell what happens , how it goes, and if it will all run to plan, i for one would like to think positive about it, that is once the government doesnt step in and charge us a charge for the charge on the charge and then put BIK and stamp duty to boot.

Anyway , thanks for the reply and the feed back

j