Where to eat low carb in dublin

El_Dangeroso

cozmik wrote: »

here again you are talking pure nonsense.



http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20080225/whole-grains-fight-belly-fat

What is pure nonsense about what ApeXaviour's post?

Noone is saying that the odd slice of wholemeal is going to make you balloon to 20 stone.

Carbohydrates cause insulin to be released and insulin is the main hormone in fat regulation. This fact has never been controversial since it was first stated in 1965. Why is that such a hard fact to accept?

That study! Please don't make me laugh my sides are hurting from the gym!:D Did you hear about that other study that says smoking heroin is good for you? Well they took 1000 people who injected heroin and 1000 people who smoked it and found out that the people who smoked were healthier (and thinner)! Wahey!

Also, I refute your point that macronutrient composition has nothing do with weight loss or gain. A study carried out in the 1950's proved this point. It was a metabolic ward study, so no silly questionnaires. The participants were given EXACTLY 1000 cals each a day. When the subjects consumed 1,000 calories a day with a diet consisting of 90 percent fat, they lost about a pound of weight per day. If the 1,000 calories consisted of 90-percent carbohydrates, they gained weight:


1. Kewick et al. “Metabolic study in humans obesity with isocaloric diets high in fat, protein, or carbohydrate.” Metabolism 6: 447-460 (1957)

Surprisingly, a calorie isn't always a calorie. Bread calories release insulin. Fat calories don't.

corkcomp

neddas wrote: »

What is pure nonsense about what ApeXaviour's post?

Noone is saying that the odd slice of wholemeal is going to make you balloon to 20 stone.

Carbohydrates cause insulin to be released and insulin is the main hormone in fat regulation. This fact has never been controversial since it was first stated in 1965. Why is that such a hard fact to accept?

That study! Please don't make me laugh my sides are hurting from the gym!:D Did you hear about that other study that says smoking heroin is good for you? Well they took 1000 people who injected heroin and 1000 people who smoked it and found out that the people who smoked were healthier (and thinner)! Wahey!

Also, I refute your point that macronutrient composition has nothing do with weight loss or gain. A study carried out in the 1950's proved this point. It was a metabolic ward study, so no silly questionnaires. The participants were given EXACTLY 1000 cals each a day. When the subjects consumed 1,000 calories a day with a diet consisting of 90 percent fat, they lost about a pound of weight per day. If the 1,000 calories consisted of 90-percent carbohydrates, they gained weight:


1. Kewick et al. “Metabolic study in humans obesity with isocaloric diets high in fat, protein, or carbohydrate.” Metabolism 6: 447-460 (1957)

Surprisingly, a calorie isn't always a calorie. Bread calories release insulin. Fat calories don't.

that study you mention above sounds like pure nonsense TBH .. Anyone loosing a pound per day is doing themselves serious harm, most of that will prob be either be water loss, muscle loss or both ... On the flip side, i cant see how ANYONE could gain weight on 1000 cals / day even if eating nothing but carbs ...

El_Dangeroso

corkcomp wrote: »

that study you mention above sounds like pure nonsense TBH .. Anyone loosing a pound per day is doing themselves serious harm, most of that will prob be either be water loss, muscle loss or both ... On the flip side, i cant see how ANYONE could gain weight on 1000 cals / day even if eating nothing but carbs ...

Sounds like pure nonsense? Did you read it? They took people locked them away and fed them specific diets and recorded their weight. Which part was nonsense? The 90% carb people did gain weight, I don't pretend to have an explanation. But that's what happened.

So eating carbs prevents muscle loss, is that what you're saying?

It was a relatively short term study, you're right, the spectacular losses were mostly water + glycogen weight. But you can't gain weight eating excess calories as long as carbs are low.. I can eat up to 3500 cals a day and not put on 1lb as long as carbs are low, most people can, how is that possible? Where do the calories go?

This is a longer (6 month) study for you:

Also

[FONT=arial, helvetica]Results Seventy-nine subjects completed the six-month study. An analysis including all subjects, with the last observation carried forward for those who dropped out, showed that subjects on the low-carbohydrate diet lost more weight than those on the low-fat diet (mean [±SD], –5.8±8.6 kg vs. –1.9±4.2 kg; P=0.002) and had greater decreases in triglyceride levels (mean, –20±43 percent vs. –4±31 percent; P=0.001), irrespective of the use or nonuse of hypoglycemic or lipid-lowering medications. Insulin sensitivity, measured only in subjects without diabetes, also improved more among subjects on the low-carbohydrate diet (6±9 percent vs. –3±8 percent, P=0.01). The amount of weight lost (P<0.001) and assignment to the low-carbohydrate diet (P=0.01) were independent predictors of improvement in triglyceride levels and insulin sensitivity.[/FONT]

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/348/21/2074

Are you really telling me that I lost 50lb of water weight eating an unrestricted calorie diet?:rolleyes:

corkcomp

neddas wrote: »

Sounds like pure nonsense? Did you read it? They took people locked them away and fed them specific diets and recorded their weight. Which part was nonsense? The 90% carb people did gain weight, I don't pretend to have an explanation. But that's what happened.

So eating carbs prevents muscle loss, is that what you're saying?

It was a relatively short term study, you're right, the spectacular losses were mostly water + glycogen weight. But you can't gain weight eating excess calories as long as carbs are low.. I can eat up to 3500 cals a day and not put on 1lb as long as carbs are low, most people can, how is that possible? Where do the calories go?

This is a longer (6 month) study for you:

Also



http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/348/21/2074

Are you really telling me that I lost 50lb of water weight eating an unrestricted calorie diet?:rolleyes:

saying that people can eat excess calories (on an ongoing basis) and not gain weight as long as they are not carb calories is also nonsense, i dont believe in going overboard with calorie counting BUT if someone was to start eating twice their usual calories / per day they WILL gain weight even if no carbs are involved ...

i still stand by my original point that the study mentioned is BS

People might also want to read the following text:




Convinced that fluid balance, not diet composition, was the cause of the weight loss reported by Kekwick and Pawan, Pilkington et al. (74) repeated their studies for longer periods of time (18 or 24 days). His results were comparable with Kekwick and Pawan’s during the first few days on each of the diets. However, there was a steady rate of weight loss with each of the 1000-kcal diets thereafter, regardless of whether the calories came from fat, protein, or CHO. Although he did not measure fluid balance, Pilkington (74) concluded that temporary differences in weight loss were due to such changes. He stated "if the periods of study are long enough to achieve a ‘steady state’ the rate of weight loss on a diet consisting mainly of fat does not differ significantly from the rate of weight loss on an isocaloric diet consisting mainly of CHO." Oleson and Quaade’s (75) experiment, which lasted for 3 weeks, had a similar conclusion."

There's a counter-study to every study out there. 90% of all studies ever done are faulty. Too many biases. Plus, they don't apply to 100% of the population.

This is why you need to monitor your progress. If you're eating mostly carbs and you're not seeing changes, then you need to alter that, or something. If you aren't making progress, you need to alter your effort somewhere. You can't always rely on broad generalizations. Maybe the no-carb diet would work for you, maybe not. Maybe it would only work as long as you stuck with it. Do you want to do that for the rest of your life? These are the things you need to ask yourself. Try things out, experiment, and build your own plan based on personal knowledge".

El_Dangeroso

saying that people can eat excess calories (on an ongoing basis) and not gain weight as long as they are not carb calories is also nonsense, i dont believe in going overboard with calorie counting BUT if someone was to start eating twice their usual calories / per day they WILL gain weight even if no carbs are involved ...

Nope, they won't. Insulin isn't raised sufficiently to store fat. That's a biological fact. Find some studies to the contrary and I'll reconsider every scientific piece of research I've done up until now.

Also, I said the rapid weight loss is due to water and glycogen, wasn't it nice of me to preemptively point out your counterpoint for you?

I could provide you with loads more studies to prove my point but all I'll get back is ad hominem arguments. I don't mind you quoting other studies (not other peoples posts off other forums), but it should be to back up what you say, not make the point for you. I might as well be debating with Google.

corkcomp

neddas wrote: »

Nope, they won't. Insulin isn't raised sufficiently to store fat. That's a biological fact. Find some studies to the contrary and I'll reconsider every scientific piece of research I've done up until now.

Also, I said the rapid weight loss is due to water and glycogen, wasn't it nice of me to preemptively point out your counterpoint for you?

I could provide you with loads more studies to prove my point but all I'll get back is ad hominem arguments. I don't mind you quoting other studies (not other peoples posts off other forums), but it should be to back up what you say, not make the point for you. I might as well be debating with Google.

the reason i quoted another study was to make a very important point (which you unintentionally or otherwise) failed to point out - that over a longer period of time the people on the 1000 cal / day diet lost weight at a steady state whether 90% carb or fat ..

El_Dangeroso

You didn't quote it, someone else did.. and I rebutted that point earlier with a longer term study, sheesh buddy, read the posts

If you can gain weight with low insulin then why is rapid weight loss a side effect of type 1 diabetes?

You still haven't responded to the fact that carbs raise insulin which controls fat storage.. can we say we agree on that now then?

corkcomp

neddas wrote: »

You didn't quote it, someone else did.. and I rebutted that point earlier with a longer term study, sheesh buddy, read the posts

If you can gain weight with low insulin then why is rapid weight loss a side effect of type 1 diabetes?

You still haven't responded to the fact that carbs raise insulin which controls fat storage.. can we say we agree on that now then?

you can split hairs all you like - the fact remains that the study you mentioned originally is nonsense due to the fact that over a longer period of time there was no significant difference in the weight loss reported by the subjects on either 90% carb or 90% fat diet, i cant see how that fact can be overlooked in this debate - period and yes carbs can raise insulin but the fact remains if you are not overdoing it in terms of calories you can still loose weight on a high carb diet...

mags16

People on this forum seem to be quoting "studies" left right and centre. If you have a particular point of view you can find studies to back you up. Are you all research scientists?

To find the real truth, interpretation is key. You need to take into account all the studies (or as many as possible), be open minded, examine the conditions, the reputations of the authors etc. Don't cherry pick and quote a random study just because it backs up your opinion.

cozmik

mags16 wrote: »

People on this forum seem to be quoting "studies" left right and centre. If you have a particular point of view you can find studies to back you up. Are you all research scientists?

To find the real truth, interpretation is key. You need to take into account all the studies (or as many as possible), be open minded, examine the conditions, the reputations of the authors etc. Don't cherry pick and quote a random study just because it backs up your opinion.

Thanks for assuming we don't have a clue. :rolleyes:

corkcomp

mags16 wrote: »

People on this forum seem to be quoting "studies" left right and centre. If you have a particular point of view you can find studies to back you up. Are you all research scientists?

To find the real truth, interpretation is key. You need to take into account all the studies (or as many as possible), be open minded, examine the conditions, the reputations of the authors etc. Don't cherry pick and quote a random study just because it backs up your opinion.

totally agree with that ....

Personally i would only ever mention a study if it related to another study mentioned elsewhere .... But your right, studies can be found to backup up any opinion .. on anything

Honey-ec

Lies, damn lies and statistics, anyone???

BoozyBabe

I try to lose weight the traditional way:- porridge for breakfast, eat fruit, wholgrain bread for lunch, small healthy dinner, lots of water, etc, etc.
I.e Normal carbs, low fat, traditional supposed healthy diet.
Add to that 4 gym sessions a week, 60 mins cardio, 30 mins weights each time & I lose NO weight. Not an ounce.

I change to low carbs & the weight falls off.

Over the past 5 years whenever I've wanted to lose a few lbs, the only way I've been able to is by cutting out those crappy carbs.

When I start eating them again the weight goes back on.

Our diets are based too highly on carbs such as bread, pasta, rice & potatoes, & as a result they DO make you fat!

What to you eat for breakfast?
Porridge, cereal, toast?
Lunch?
Sandwich, pitta, roll, wrap?
Dinner?
Pasta, rice, potatoes?
Supper?
Sandwich, cereal?
Snack?
Sweets, choc, biscuits, cake, crisps?

A bowl of porridge won't make you fat, a sandwich won't make you fat, hell even a bar of choc won't make you fat, but when you add them all together & the majority of your diet is carbs based, you WILL put on weight!

I've been the proof time & time & time again.
& how do I lose it?
I substitute low carb options for my high carb regulars.
So, in my personal opinion, carbs ARE the devil!!!!!
Your opinion can differ, I don't care.:p

mags16

That's great boozybabe, you've found a system that works for you.

But if you read through the food diaries in this forum, you'll see that the problem is that people aren't sticking to their eating plans. Some are eating crazily tiny amounts and then have massive splurges at the weekend. That is why their diets aren't working, not that fact that they are on a high carb diet or not.

I'm not pro carb or anti carb. I am trying to lose 5 lbs at the moment and have reduced my carb intake a bit.

All I want to know is how to eat out on a lowish carb diet.

olaola

In an Indian - meats & fish from the tandoor, mains made in tomato sauce and vegerian sides.

Chinese - peking duck? The pancackes are so wee, I dunno if they would really add many carbs to your diet? Just make sure they are really full of duck
Stir fried veg & meat minus the noodles/rice. You could always ask for iceberg lettuce leaves and roll the duck - or the stir fry up in them.

I'm just looking for a middle of the road menu - here is Brasserie Sixty6 - there are a good few things you could have there.

Italian - antipasti, and most of the meat dishes.

I think places that specialise in meat or fish are your friend. Steer your mates towards this kind of thing.

corkcomp

mags16 wrote: »

That's great boozybabe, you've found a system that works for you.

But if you read through the food diaries in this forum, you'll see that the problem is that people aren't sticking to their eating plans. Some are eating crazily tiny amounts and then have massive splurges at the weekend. That is why their diets aren't working, not that fact that they are on a high carb diet or not.

I'm not pro carb or anti carb. I am trying to lose 5 lbs at the moment and have reduced my carb intake a bit.

All I want to know is how to eat out on a lowish carb diet.

thats a good point, and another problem is people not being honest with themselves ... Someone told me last week how they were trying to loose weight and listed everything they had eaten for the past few days, it all sounded good so i said "is that all" and the reply was .. yeah but i was out saturday night so i had some pizza and chips after the pub so i wouldnt feel left out, and on Sunday had a tub of ben and Jerrys just to keep me motivated for the week ahead ... see the pattern? there is always some excuse ...

mags16

olaola wrote: »

I think places that specialise in meat or fish are your friend. Steer your mates towards this kind of thing.

That's good information.

I was in one of those Chinese places on Parnell St last night and just had the stir fry duck. No rice. Very tasty.

Just as well I'm not a veggie, though.

El_Dangeroso

corkcomp wrote: »

thats a good point, and another problem is people not being honest with themselves ... Someone told me last week how they were trying to loose weight and listed everything they had eaten for the past few days, it all sounded good so i said "is that all" and the reply was .. yeah but i was out saturday night so i had some pizza and chips after the pub so i wouldnt feel left out, and on Sunday had a tub of ben and Jerrys just to keep me motivated for the week ahead ... see the pattern? there is always some excuse ...

It's true, people under estimate their food consumption all the time, a handful of this here and there. But then again, who wants to be a person who is so neurotic that they journal every little gram.

My own personal happy medium is to have an allowed list of food that I can eat in unlimited quantities (meat, fish, leafy green veg, butter), food that's limited to once a day (cheese, root veggies, cream) and food that's once a fortnight (bread, sweeties, icecream etc). I think everyone can work out a similar system whether their doing low fat, low carb, low gi or Mediterranean. You have to follow a diet(or way of eating as I like to refer to it) for the rest of your life, so counting anything long term is a bit extreme.

corkcomp

neddas wrote: »

It's true, people under estimate their food consumption all the time, a handful of this here and there. But then again, who wants to be a person who is so neurotic that they journal every little gram.

My own personal happy medium is to have an allowed list of food that I can eat in unlimited quantities (meat, fish, leafy green veg, butter), food that's limited to once a day (cheese, root veggies, cream) and food that's once a fortnight (bread, sweeties, icecream etc). I think everyone can work out a similar system whether their doing low fat, low carb, low gi or Mediterranean. You have to follow a diet(or way of eating as I like to refer to it) for the rest of your life, so counting anything long term is a bit extreme.

i find a 70 / 30 split works best for me, i eat clean approx 70% of the time but i dont worry what i eat when eating out, getting lunch on the road once or twice a week etc etc ... When i was trying to loose weight though it was more like a 90 / 10 split .... Looking at my own peers, it always seems to be the ones who are most restrictive with their diets (in terms on calories, carbs etc) that really splurge ... i would consider a something like a 9" pizza and bowl of ice-cream as a treat meal, but a 20" pizza and whole tub of ice cream is a whole different story ... If people have a little of what they enjoy there may be less chance of a spectacular break out ... But most importantly people need to be honest with themselves!!

of course the best way of allowing more freedom with diet is to do enough exercise, especially once someone is around their desired weight, the odd meal of junk food isnt going to cause weight gain ..

El_Dangeroso

So true about the difference between treating yourself and binging.. that comes from eating too little food no doubt..

You'd be surprised how little calories exercise actually burns, most of those machines on the gym grossly over estimate how much cals you burn. Intensive flat out running on a treadmill for 30 minutes burns 300 cals(depending on BMR), but that includes how much cals you burn sitting on your backside (about 80 depending on BMR) and you can burn approx 300 cals an hour shivering!

The problem with calories is that the body doesn't use all food types in the same way, carbs can only be used for energy, but protein and fat are used in structural repair and maintenance of cells as well as being used for energy. So the 9 cals in some essential fatty acids don't really matter for energy balance as they are just used in repair. Plus you use an approx 240 cals a day extra in the process of gluconeogenisis (turning protein into the glucose your brain needs) if you follow a low carb diet.

The body has various homeostatic processes that will try and maintain the status quo. These systems keep your body temps constant, blood pressure constant and weight constant. Of course it's possible to override these systems (hypothermia from extreme cold for example) but the fact remains that if you reduce fat and protein and therefore overall calories, your body will slow metabolism to compensate. This effect isn't observed (beyond the reduction arising from weight lost) when people cut carbs and overall calories (the calorie reduction is usually spontaneous) for some reason, I don't pretend to know why.. no theories have been put forward that I know of.

corkcomp

neddas wrote: »

So true about the difference between treating yourself and binging.. that comes from eating too little food no doubt..

You'd be surprised how little calories exercise actually burns, most of those machines on the gym grossly over estimate how much cals you burn. Intensive flat out running on a treadmill for 30 minutes burns 300 cals(depending on BMR), but that includes how much cals you burn sitting on your backside (about 80 depending on BMR) and you can burn approx 300 cals an hour shivering!

The problem with calories is that the body doesn't use all food types in the same way, carbs can only be used for energy, but protein and fat are used in structural repair and maintenance of cells as well as being used for energy. So the 9 cals in some essential fatty acids don't really matter for energy balance as they are just used in repair. Plus you use an approx 240 cals a day extra in the process of gluconeogenisis (turning protein into the glucose your brain needs) if you follow a low carb diet.

The body has various homeostatic processes that will try and maintain the status quo. These systems keep your body temps constant, blood pressure constant and weight constant. Of course it's possible to override these systems (hypothermia from extreme cold for example) but the fact remains that if you reduce fat and protein and therefore overall calories, your body will slow metabolism to compensate. This effect isn't observed (beyond the reduction arising from weight lost) when people cut carbs and overall calories (the calorie reduction is usually spontaneous) for some reason, I don't pretend to know why.. no theories have been put forward that I know of.

i wouldnt underestimate the power of exercise though, both resistance and cardio training .. Running for an hour flat out (im talking at least 85% of max HR) will certainly burn way more than 600Kcal ... it also revs up your metabolism, helps sweat out excess toxins, improves mood ... etc etc. I have no doubt that it is exercise that allows me the freedom to eat the foods i like

El_Dangeroso

Not for a second disputing the health benefits of exercising. Weight training improves insulin resistance and cardio health and cardio improves cardio health and mood.

Your bang on with the 600 cals for the running, first typed running and then changed it to jogging without changing the first part.. brain disconnect.. it's Friday

But I'm talking about those people who buy like a 400euro elliptical machine and use it for 30 mins a day and expect to lose weight without modifying diet. Those people will easily and unconsciously increase cal intake to compensate (eating half a sandwich's worth of extra cals). I know a good few people like that who won't listen to my advice

I came across a study once, can't find it now.. will edit reference in later when I get back home to my journal collection. The trained some overweight women to run a marathon without modifying diet, and their bodyfat remained static. The women in the study were more than likely insulin resistant and that makes all the difference. Whereas healthy people may experience weight loss with exercise alone, insulin resistant people (pretty much all obese people are insulin resistant) won't lose a pound because glucogen (the fat release hormone) will be surpressed.

Brian?

olaola wrote: »

Brasserie Sixty6 - there are a good few things you could have there.

I hate that place. The food is ok, but just about ok and its over priced

Beks

Japanese food is usually low in fat. I would recommend Aya, Yamamori and Wagamama. Vegan/Veggi food is another option - I suggest Govindas, Juice and blazing salads.

ApeXaviour

This thread is about low carb places to eat, we want lovely scrumptious insulin neutral fat to get big and strong.

dr.bollocko

Beks wrote: »

Japanese food is usually low in fat. I would recommend Aya, Yamamori and Wagamama. Vegan/Veggi food is another option - I suggest Govindas, Juice and blazing salads.

LOW IN CARBS!

EileenG

Beks wrote: »

Japanese food is usually low in fat. I would recommend Aya, Yamamori and Wagamama. Vegan/Veggi food is another option - I suggest Govindas, Juice and blazing salads.

And on the subject of low fat, most veggie food is dripping in fat. Actual vegetables are both low carb and low fat, but vegetarian food, as served in Ireland restaurants tend to be high carb and high fat.

Beks

EileenG wrote: »

And on the subject of low fat, most veggie food is dripping in fat. Actual vegetables are both low carb and low fat, but vegetarian food, as served in Ireland restaurants tend to be high carb and high fat.

In that case then, you may as well stay inside and not bother going out to eat. Whether the veggie food is dripping in fat or not, it's still a lot healthier than the meat options which are also dripping in fat. I don't eat out that often as I prefer to take the time and effort to prepare my own food so I know the fat and calorie content exactly. The best thing to do if you have to go out to eat is eat whatever you want but only a small portion. People who go out to restaurants feel the need to finish their meals because they paid for it, when you should actually just eat to feel satisfied.

Beks

ApeXaviour wrote: »

This thread is about low carb places to eat, we want lovely scrumptious insulin neutral fat to get big and strong.

What I usually do when I'm out is if I see a dish I really like but there's something I DONT like in it, I just ask for it without whatever that ingredient is. Simple! If you don't want carbs just ask for it without the rice/potatoes/bread and get a salad or side of veggies instead. Most restaurants are very accomodating.

instrumann

Corkcomp,
Can you please get a dictionary and look up the difference between "loose" and "lose".
For the past six weeks I have kept my carb content from food down to approximately 20-30g per day. I eat eggs, mushrooms, bacon, sausages and cheese in various combinations for breakfast. I eat meat and salads for lunch. I pile the plate so I have trouble finishing each meal. Evenings if I am hungry, which is not always, I eat cheese rolled in slices of ham and microwaved, olives, tomatoes, prawn in rosemary sauce.
I still get carbs from beer. I haven't cut down my beer intake at all. I occasionally have a crunchie fun-size after dinner with a cup of tea.
The weight is falling off me. I have lost more than 8kg and I don't even consider this trying. I don't have flatulence after meals. I have a lot of energy and find that I want to go to the gym rather than feeling I have to.
Low carb is the way to go.