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P2P (Bittorrent etc) configuration & use discussion...ongoing (Only place to post!)

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    #242
    MooseJam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭MooseJam


    what does fup stand for edit: I'll guess fair usage policy


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    #243
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Yes, fair usage policy.

    But in this case it states: "“Excessive use” of the Service is defined as usage exceeding your monthly data transfer allowance."

    Now this is where it becomes ambiguous as there is no cap on the 10 & 20mbps services. It does state after no cap to look at the fair usage policy, but yet - there is no indication of any limit on these services in the fair usage policy. So therefore, it is not possible to breach the fair usage policy unless they place an exact figure of exactly what is required to break the fair usage policy. Is it 40 gigs, 80 gigs? If they specified how much, instead of trying to flog it off as a non-capped service to sell the product, then we wouldn't be in this mess.


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    #244
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,734 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Yes, fair usage policy.

    But in this case it states: "“Excessive use” of the Service is defined as usage exceeding your monthly data transfer allowance."

    Now this is where it becomes ambiguous as there is no cap on the 10 & 20mbps services. It does state after no cap to look at the fair usage policy, but yet - there is no indication of any limit on these services in the fair usage policy. So therefore, it is not possible to breach the fair usage policy unless they place an exact figure of exactly what is required to break the fair usage policy. Is it 40 gigs, 80 gigs? If they specified how much, instead of trying to flog it off as a non-capped service to sell the product, then we wouldn't be in this mess.

    The Ultra was billed as 300Gb Cap before the upgrades, when they upgraded they removed any clarification of what constitued a cap / fair use limitation.


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    #245
    ronrar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭ronrar


    Question- im changing from eircom, i want to get an isp that dont block torrents and i would probably be downloading a fair amount so decent speeds would be important, also hopefully at a decent price,

    reading this thread has turned me off UPC, any other recommendations? confused.gif


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    #246
    JPA
    Registered Users Posts: 13,758 ✭✭✭✭JPA


    dlofnep wrote: »
    I'm aware of what the FUP states. I have not exceeded their FUP. Therefore, there are not within their rights to throttle my connection.


    Exactly. Looks like they haven't updated Terms and conditions for a while.


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    #247
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Yes, fair usage policy.

    But in this case it states: "“Excessive use” of the Service is defined as usage exceeding your monthly data transfer allowance."

    Now this is where it becomes ambiguous as there is no cap on the 10 & 20mbps services. It does state after no cap to look at the fair usage policy, but yet - there is no indication of any limit on these services in the fair usage policy. So therefore, it is not possible to breach the fair usage policy unless they place an exact figure of exactly what is required to break the fair usage policy.

    Not true, they can also use this
    "Customers who use the services more heavily than a normal home user will reduce the performance of the network for other customers."

    and

    "If you exceed your monthly data transfer allowance as determined by UPC, in our sole judgment, UPC may take any of the following actions, or any combination thereof:"

    So basically they can decided what the cap is under th FUP and do what they want when you break it :)


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    #248
    MooseJam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭MooseJam


    well I downloaded 940 GB in 45 days before they throttled me, I'm only going to be downloading between 00:30 and 7:30 am now via rapidshare, I can't see how they can complain about that


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    #249
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Not true, they can also use this
    "Customers who use the services more heavily than a normal home user will reduce the performance of the network for other customers."

    and

    "If you exceed your monthly data transfer allowance as determined by UPC, in our sole judgment, UPC may take any of the following actions, or any combination thereof:"

    So basically they can decided what the cap is under th FUP and do what they want when you break it :)

    Wrong.
    "Customers who use the services more heavily than a normal home user will reduce the performance of the network for other customers."

    They are not stating what the cap is here, they are stating the consequences of heavy use.

    In their terms and conditions they categorically state that they will impose the fair usage policy if it is exceeded. When they do not state what the cap is on the seemingly non-capped products, then we are not subject to alterations to our service.

    It is not our fault their legal team was unable to write a foolproof document.

    My original point still stands. They did not specify the data allowance, and therefore they cannot impose an infraction as technically, we have not exceeded our data allowance.

    For the record, I can safely say I have not at any point downloaded 300 gigs at any point in my life on NTL as per the previous cap. I would say on average I downloaded between 30-45 gigs a month. Hardly enough to warrant throttling.


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    #250
    MooseJam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭MooseJam


    thebromeliad wrote: »
    What do you mean? They are hosting files.




    Rapidshare does not break any rules. Content providers such as Rapidshare must be provided with a take-down notice if copywrited content is uploaded by users. This is enshrined in national and international copyright law.

    yea you would need an army of people monitoring the site to have any effect by requesting take-down, I think they are resigned to the fact that theres not much they can do


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    #251
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    dlofnep, good luck with your fight against UPC and its Fair Usage Policy :)


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    #252
    expatoz
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭expatoz


    monday morning, connection still crap


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    #253
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Cabaal wrote: »
    dlofnep, good luck with your fight against UPC and its Fair Usage Policy :)

    Oh yeah - I'm well aware of where I'll get with it ;) I just don't think they would have any legal foot to stand on with it if I wanted to push it.


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    #254
    13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭13


    has anyone talked to upc/ntl yet about this matter?


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    #255
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    I gave NTL a call there. I basically said that I've no problem im adhering to a cap, but that it was hard for me to adhere to a cap when it's non-specified. The supervisor wasn't sure of what it was, but passed my details onto a manager who give give me a call back in a week when he gets back.

    I'm not too sure if they were even aware of the throttling issue. I certainly knew more about it than they knew. Probably overwhelmed them with lingo and scared the bejesus out of them :P


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    #256
    13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭13


    its highly unlikely they have no idea about the throttling issue. isp's rarely admit to the fact. the only way you can get through to these people is to cost them money. call them and complain as often as you can and threaten to/or take your business elsewhere. ive read p2p traffic can account for up to 60-70% of an isp's bandwidth usage.. they might want to remind themselves of how much of their clientele this actually equates to.

    at first i thought they were only throttling uploads but theyre most definitely limiting downloads as well. i was gettin 50k on a private tracker here, as soon as i connect to a vpn that jumped to 1.1mb/s. bit of a difference there huh?

    i also have legitimate applications and games which rely on modern p2p technology and now have to resort to proxies and whatnot simply to get them working. i wouldnt mind at all adhering to some kind of monthly p2p/bitorrent cap but just cutting it off like this with no warning or clear statement is total bull**** and ill be moving to another isp asap if they dont sort their **** out.


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    #257
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    13 wrote: »
    its highly unlikely they have no idea about the throttling issue.

    They as agents - Yes, it's very possible. ISP's are not known for good communication from the top down. The upper management are probably aware.
    13 wrote: »
    isp's rarely admit to the fact. the only way you can get through to these people is to cost them money. call them and complain as often as you can and threaten to/or take your business elsewhere. ive read p2p traffic can account for up to 60-70% of an isp's bandwidth usage.. they might want to remind themselves of how much of their clientele this actually equates to.

    Threatening to take your business elsewhere won't do anything. Trust me.


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    #258
    13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭13


    They as agents - Yes, it's very possible. ISP's are not known for good communication from the top down. The upper management are probably aware.

    thats understandable i guess. all tech support ever do is try and sell me a bloody phone anyway :)
    Threatening to take your business elsewhere won't do anything. Trust me.

    its all about the numbers... if enough people were to move to another isp over this issue they would have to take it into consideration as a business factor.


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    #259
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    13 wrote: »
    its all about the numbers... if enough people were to move to another isp over this issue they would have to take it into consideration as a business factor.

    Its all about numbers, that I'd fully agree...however when you have 5-10% of users using 90-95% of bandwidth then the ISP doesn't care when these users leave it because there actually costing the ISP more money each month then there paying the ISP due to bandwidth costs :D

    So trust me on this, when heavy users leave an ISP an ISP isn't too pushed about them :)


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    #260
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Cabaal is correct.


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    #261
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    As already mentioned the best you can hope for is for UPC to give more solid information, for example:
    - What is the guideline limit for an account on FUP?
    - Will they throttle P2P in general?
    - Will they only throttle P2P and prioritise http during peak times?

    They may not give any of this info to you at all but its the best I'd imagine you can hope for I'd say,


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    #262
    ronrar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭ronrar


    corkstudent wrote: »
    Torrents are no longer connecting at all on Chorus 10mb, until about 15 minutes in. Then it connects very slowly.


    This is very frustrating when I'm just looking to torrent small apps and older material that I could find elsewhere if they were currently actively hosted.

    still bad for you? thinking of making the switch but the latest posts in this thread have not been so positive :confused:

    looking for alternatives :(


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    #263
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,734 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    ronrar wrote: »
    still bad for you? thinking of making the switch but the latest posts in this thread have not been so positive :confused:

    looking for alternatives :(

    The alternatives are to switch to UPC and use RS or Usenet instead of torrents, this will cost you a few quid, but it will max out your connection....unlike torrents.


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    #264
    ronrar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭ronrar


    Inquitus wrote: »
    The alternatives are to switch to UPC and use RS or Usenet instead of torrents, this will cost you a few quid, but it will max out your connection....unlike torrents.

    could do that but the stuff i would be mainly using it for is only on torrent sites :(


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    #265
    MooseJam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭MooseJam


    If they don't expect you to download stuff then why do they sell 10 meg and 20 meg, I mean what can you do with a 20 meg connection that you can't do with a 10, apart from download tonnes of stuff


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    #266
    ronrar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭ronrar


    people in cork city experiencing the same throttling issues with upc? im in a fookin mess now, what about imagine? any good? their upload speed looks very nice :rolleyes:

    arggh i dont know now :mad:


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    #267
    mediacentre.ie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 114 ✭✭mediacentre.ie


    does any one know if this is going to be a permenant thing? If it is I'm cancelling.

    I am hoping it is just because it is the end of the month and maybe we have all downloaded a bit too much??


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    #268
    JPA
    Registered Users Posts: 13,758 ✭✭✭✭JPA


    mediacentre.ie wrote: »
    does any one know if this is going to be a permenant thing? If it is I'm cancelling.

    I am hoping it is just because it is the end of the month and maybe we have all downloaded a bit too much??


    I have no idea. Has anyone been onto them in the last day or 2?


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    #269
    coldfire1x
    Registered Users Posts: 3,353 ✭✭✭coldfire1x


    UPC... the f****** b******s, for last few days I was wondering what happened. Checked everything, port was open, firewall setup, router ok, connection ok... but still wasnt getting the download speeds via torrents. Infact I restored my laptop couple of times thinking some windows update might have screwed some setting.

    Now I have discovered this thread. Its not just me :( Everyone on the same boat. Not sure whats going to happen. My contract is valid for another 10 months, cant even switch.

    10 mb line... what a waste.....


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    #270
    expatoz
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭expatoz


    we are all in the same boat, i hope it picks up for the start of the month but even with 10 months to go there is nothing stopping you from switching, better to do it than to be frustrated and angry for nearly a year


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    #271
    Miscreant
    Registered Users Posts: 2,199 ✭✭✭Miscreant


    I was wondering what was going on with my download speeds on torrents with UPC until I read this. I thought my laptop was on the fritz until my PC started getting the same poor download speeds. Nothing to do with my router either as I have connected each machine directly to the cable modem and still get the same rubbish speeds.
    Fair use should not apply in my case anyway as I have the 10mb service and have only downloaded about 10Gb in about a month..... unless Xbox live takes a lot but I doubt it and Torrent packets are different anyway!
    Flippin' throttling (if they are using it)!!!!!!!!


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