Circle Line to Close, Blame unfair competion from Dublin Bus

Corruptedmorals

In a way, I'm glad because Leixlip bus services have been completely screwed over by Mortons serving part of the route, ie. Lucan..but never Leixlip, which has just sucked. I go to college and work part-time in town, so I have to get lots of both peak and off-peak busses. Off-peak busses are a disgrace...usually 2 an hour, particularly at 8/9. Celbridge of course, is even worse off. I agree with everyone who said that the 66s and 67s need to skip Lucan. It's so pointless, Lucan is well served enough, and with the roadworks going on near the Spa Hotel it had added on an hour in the past. Especially the X busses that serve Lucan- why? I hope that sometime soon extra busses will be added to the Leixlip, Celbridge, Maynooth routes but I doubt it. And yeah, the 66D, what a joke.

angrycommuter80

Sainttoff wrote: »

Anyone looking to get to ballsbridge, the 25x and 66x goes as far as Waterloo pub which is a 5 min walk from ballsbridge, i do it every day!!

Yes but this is useless if you live in Celbridge as we cant get 66x or 25x!!!! Lucan should be bypassed by every bus except for Lucan buses. Leixlip has 2 train stations and a bus service all regular. Maynooth has a well serviced train station which is central to the town and they also have a good supply of 66x buses. Celbridge has a train station a mile outside the village serviced by a bus link that may or may not show up depending on the bus drivers mood and now thanks to the mortons farce has 3 express buses in the morning and 2 in the evening. Alternative option get a 67 that goes around the world and back again before getting to the city centre, takes an eternity to do this journey and stops at every single stop on the way it would send anyone to a looney asylum before they even get off the bus in frustration!!!!

John R

angrycommuter80 wrote: »

Yes but this is useless if you live in Celbridge as we cant get 66x or 25x!!!!

There is also the Bus Eireann 120 and 123 services from Celbridge at approx 7.40 that go to O'Connell Bridge/Busaras and Stephen's Green/Baggot Street/Waterloo Road/Belfield.

They then run every 30 minutes through the day and are as fast as possible for that corridor as Celbridge Main Street is the final pick-up/set down stop.

Xylophonic

angrycommuter80 wrote: »

Yes but this is useless if you live in Celbridge as we cant get 66x or 25x!!!!

Try reading the DB website. http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/viewer.asp?route=67X

0730 - From Celbridge to Waterloo Road (not via Lucan Village)
0745 - From Celbridge to Waterloo Road (not via Lucan Village)

Rawr

angrycommuter80 wrote: »

Leixlip has 2 train stations and a bus service all regular.

True, Leixlip is a bit better off than Celbridge, but those 2 stations happen to be on the Calcutta line (always fun) and our regular bus service really depends on which part of the town you are in. Mostly, that's in the form of the 66, which needs to service Maynooth aswell.

If improvements were made to the 66A, B, D (seriously needed on D) and the Leixlip-bound 66Xs (no more via Lucan), it would lessen the load for Maynooth bound services and possibly the Calcutta line too.

markf909

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=IRELAND-qqqm=nav-qqqid=34274-qqqx=1.asp

Dublin Bus applies for extra services along former Circle Line routes
06 July 2008 By Nicola Cooke
Dublin Bus has applied to the Department of Transport to run new services from Celbridge and Lucan, on routes previously operated by private bus firm Circle Line.

Circle Line went into voluntary liquidation on June 20 and has accused Dublin Bus of saturating the routes with buses to put it out of business. Paul Morton, owner of Circle Line, said he was not surprised by Dublin Bus’s application for services on its former routes.

‘‘That has been their plan all along,” he said. Circle Line had 11,000 weekly users before it closed with the loss of 20 jobs. No buyer has yet been found for the company or its fleet of vehicles, worth €3.5 million. A Dublin Bus spokeswoman confirmed that the company had submitted a licence application to the Department of Transport last Monday for additional services on existing routes serving the Lucan area.





‘‘Dublin Bus felt that since the cessation of Circle Line’s services in the area, there would be a significant increase of commuters onto Dublin Bus services,” she said. ‘‘Therefore, in the interest of commuters, and in order to provide the best service for them, Dublin Bus felt the need to make the application to the department.” The Department of Transport is considering the application.

Dublin Bus last month started a new service, the 41X, which operates from Swords to the city centre via the Port Tunnel. The route is already served by a private service, the Swords Express, which started its service at the end of last year.

The Sunday Business Post understands that the firm behind the Swords Express has requested a judicial review of the department’s decision to award a licence for the route to Dublin Bus. This is due to be heard on July 26.The firm has three buses and is fearful it will be put out of business by the 41X, according to sources.

Rawr

markf909 wrote: »

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=IRELAND-qqqm=nav-qqqid=34274-qqqx=1.asp

Could it be, that sanity has actually prevailed? To be honest, I can't believe it. Let's hope that the DoT show some cop-on and just award the license to DB instead of dragging this along.

AlekSmart

It all seems so long ago when Prof Margaret O Mahoney was threatening to "Knock heads together" in her attempts to bring sanity to the Dublin Public Transport sector.

It`s now increasingly evident that certain sectors of the "Private" bus sector are playing a commerciality game with the Department of Transport and are using their heretofore valued customers as the cannon fodder.

However,these privates are vastly more commercially savvy than any inhabitants of Dublin bus HQ and therefore have a head start in the game.

Swords Express for example appears to be unaware of the prior existance of the 41X as a service for quite a few years now.
However SE appears unwilling to comment on the same Departments confusion between a limited stop express service and a full-service stage carriage route such as the 141 which still cannot get Departmental approval...on the grounds that it somehow magically interferes with Swords Express`s Port Tunnel based service..

What will it take before it`s recognized that we urgently require NEW leadership in Transport House....??

KC61

markf909 wrote: »

From the Sunday Business Post:

Dublin Bus last month started a new service, the 41X, which operates from Swords to the city centre via the Port Tunnel. The route is already served by a private service, the Swords Express, which started its service at the end of last year.

The Sunday Business Post understands that the firm behind the Swords Express has requested a judicial review of the department’s decision to award a licence for the route to Dublin Bus. This is due to be heard on July 26.The firm has three buses and is fearful it will be put out of business by the 41X, according to sources.

This really is codology of the highest order. The 41X has been there for well on 15 years at least, operating non-stop between Pinnock Hill and the City Centre, save for a stop at Drumcondra Station.

The bus has now been re-routed to operate through the Port Tunnel on the inbound journeys, following pressure from the local residents associations in Swords, and not just from Dublin Bus. At no point along the route do its stops intersect with the Swords Express, and the buses operate from the outlying estates, something Swords Express does not do.. Does Swords Express consider that they have exclusive rights to operate a bus service through the tunnel? Surely if the customers want the service, they should be entitled to it?

Which, as Alek states, rightly brings us back to long saga of the 141.....anytime now!!!

KC61

markf909 wrote: »

From the Sunday Business Post:

Circle Line went into voluntary liquidation on June 20 and has accused Dublin Bus of saturating the routes with buses to put it out of business. Paul Morton, owner of Circle Line, said he was not surprised by Dublin Bus’s application for services on its former routes.

‘‘That has been their plan all along,” he said. Circle Line had 11,000 weekly users before it closed with the loss of 20 jobs. No buyer has yet been found for the company or its fleet of vehicles, worth €3.5 million. A Dublin Bus spokeswoman confirmed that the company had submitted a licence application to the Department of Transport last Monday for additional services on existing routes serving the Lucan area.

With all due respect, what does Paul Morton expect DB to do? Time and time again they applied to alter services on the Lucan QBC and were turned down by the Department. Now when he goes, does he expect that DB will sit idly by doing nothing?

HydeRoad

Dublin Bus probably will eventually put in extra services, as their existing peak hour services will not cope with the extra loading. And so they should. If they had put in the extra services years ago, that residents pleaded for, there'd have been no need for a Mortons bus.

The pressure is off now, however, seeing as Circle Line is gone. Having complained bitterly that the presence of Circle Line was preventing them from putting in the extra services they were 'bursting' to provide, it will be interesting to see now just how long it actually takes them to put in the service. Surely they have already applied a long time ago, since we have been told constantly that they were refused permission?

I await with interest...

Snake Plisken

I think after every refusal they have to re-apply, actually I think Dublin Bus have moved pretty quickly to apply for the circleline routes, time for anyone remotely interested to get onto your Dub west or north Kildare politicians to put pressure on the Dept of transport to approve the extra services.

KC61

Snake Plisken wrote: »

I think after every refusal they have to re-apply, actually I think Dublin Bus have moved pretty quickly to apply for the circleline routes, time for anyone remotely interested to get onto your Dub west or north Kildare politicians to put pressure on the Dept of transport to approve the extra services.

Precisely....DB have to make a new application each time after a refusal. Therefore I would agree that they have moved as quickly as may be expected in the circumstances.

angrycommuter80

I was speaking with Cllr Kevin Byrne this morning who advised me a meeting has been set up for next Wedensday July 16th with Dublin Bus rep Joe Stobie, the Director of transport in Kildare county council and all local county cllrs. This meeting should bring some progress on this issue lets hope! At least we have someone working in our favour.

markpb

angrycommuter80 wrote: »

I was speaking with Cllr Kevin Byrne this morning who advised me a meeting has been set up for next Wedensday July 16th with Dublin Bus rep Joe Stobie, the Director of transport in Kildare county council and all local county cllrs. This meeting should bring some progress on this issue lets hope! At least we have someone working in our favour.

This sounds like bull**** politics to me. There's nothing any of those councillors can do - once the application for change has been lodged with the DoT, the ball is entirely in their court. Either DB haven't lodged it and it's their fault, or the DoT are stalling for time for some unknown reason. I'd go with b.

KC61

Dublin Bus have lodged an application to operate additional services on the Lucan QBC which is now being considered by the Department.

But I would again reiterate that the only way that something will happen is to kick up an almighty fuss with local politicians.

It took an awful lot of work over several months by a local FF TD in Swords (Michael Kennedy) to get a Department official to come out to Swords with Mr. Kennedy and representatives of Dublin Bus to decide on a route that the 41X could operate along in Swords before routing via the M1 and Port Tunnel without conflicting (in the Department's view) with the Swords Express service.

As much political pressure as possible needs to be levied onto the Department, because otherwise we are going to continue with this madness. The same problem is now prevailing in Dublin 15, where an extension of the 37 to Blanchardstown Shopping Centre from Carpenterstown has been rejected by the Department because the route conflicts with an hourly URbus service which it shares 1.5 miles of roadspace with from Ashtown Park Gate to the entrance to Laurel Lodge Estate in Castleknock.

The whole system has descended into farce....and don't even get me started on the 141.

angrycommuter80

KC61 I agree if the local politicans were not assisting we would be complaining, I do beleive they are in a position to be more persuasive over the Dept than anyone else. In regards to the routings around Celbridge Dep Stagg and Cllr Byrne have put forward a motion to DB to reroute the DB to service areas on Shackelton Road and other areas that had been serviced by DB.

Heart

because the route conflicts with an hourly URbus service which it shares 1.5 miles of roadspace with from Ashtown Park Gate to the entrance to Laurel Lodge Estate in Castleknock.

And I believe that URbus didn't even object, it was the department who decided this!

KC61

Heart wrote: »

And I believe that URbus didn't even object, it was the department who decided this!

You have hit the nail on the head.

As I have posted separately, the problem is that the Department is taking this view themselves, and is scared that if they do licence improved DB services on a particular route, and subsequently a private operator that operates along part of the that route goes under, that they will be blamed for that happening.

Meanwhile thousands of people are denied improved bus services.

It is truly the height of farce.

markf909

Got a reply from the minster on this which i'm sure all parties will get if they write in.

Noel says there are 39 (count em) services to Celbridge each day so thats good enough for him.

Says DB lobbed in an application for extra morning services from Celbridge on the 27th June. They then retracted and revised the submission on the 30th June but I don't have details on the revised application.

markpb

markf909 wrote: »

Got a reply from the minster on this which i'm sure all parties will get if they write in. Noel says there are 39 (count em) services to Celbridge each day so thats good enough for him.

Could you post the actual text of the letter here? That's a pretty outrageous statement from the minister for transport.

markf909

Will do this evening.

The actual text goes like "DB have informed me that there are 217 sevices serving this area each day of which 39 serve Celbridge ..."

Noel obviously just signed the letter, one of the faceless one's in the DoT drafted it.

Davidth88

That is unreal !

We ( the Celbridge Residents ) need to start getting militant about this , I have no ideas how to start but we need to get a ball rolling somehow

I have written to all local politicans , so far only recvd answers from the Labour party and from FG, nothing at all from FF
I have also written to the minister , but judging by the reply you got , this is in vain , if he writes an answer like that back to me I would publisise this , that needs to go into the local press etc

markpb

Davidth88 wrote: »

I have written to all local politicans , so far only recvd answers from the Labour party and from FG, nothing at all from FF

IMHO There's no much point writing to anyone but FF, they're the only ones in power. If they don't reply within a week, start emailing and ringing them. Make sure to put your postal address on your emails. Also it might help if you're registered to vote.

markf909

Do not send emails ever, put everything in writing.

KC61

markf909 wrote: »

Will do this evening.

The actual text goes like "DB have informed me that there are 217 sevices serving this area each day of which 39 serve Celbridge ..."

Noel obviously just signed the letter, one of the faceless one's in the DoT drafted it.

217 services...that is the entire Lucan QBC, i.e. routes 25, 25A, 25X, 26, 66, 66A, 66B, 66D, 66X, 67, 67A, 67X.

angrycommuter80

I got a pretty bog standard email that makes no sense or doesnt answer what was actually stated in the letter the reponse to my email whaich was in relation to the CL3 closure and requesting that the DB licence application be approved was this.


Thank you for your email

regret vey much thay Circle Line will not be operating this service in the future.

AAs soon as I tool office I recognised the problem with the bus licensing regine in Dublin and set about changinin it in the only way possible, which is with primary legislation.

That Legislation which is the Dublin Transport Authority Bill is almost finalised in the Dail and the Seanad.

Regards

Noel Dempsey
Minister for Transport

KC61

Indeed, the DTA legislation should be enacted by the end of the year.

However, the reform of the bus licensing legislation, i.e. the 1932 and 1958 Transport Acts will not be enacted I would imagine, until at the earliest June of next year.

This is a red herring, and any submissions need to state that you are aware of the impending legislation, but ask specifically about what can be done in the meantime, and why it should take so long for licence applications to be processed.

markf909

KC61 wrote: »

217 services...that is the entire Lucan QBC, i.e. routes 25, 25A, 25X, 26, 66, 66A, 66B, 66D, 66X, 67, 67A, 67X.

I know, the minster thinks nice one, what are the proles complaining about?

The proles meanwhile know the situation on the ground is at odds with the minster's impression.

markf909

Here is the paragraph from my response from the minister.

Noel Dempsey wrote:

Dublin Bus currently provides a wide range of services to and from the areas of Lucan and Celbridge. I understand from Dublin Bus that there are approx 217 services daily from the Lucan area to the city centre and that 39 of these also serve the Celbridge area. I am also informed that there are approx 190 outbound services from the city centre serving the Lucan area throughout the day.