Circle Line to Close, Blame unfair competion from Dublin Bus

HydeRoad · 21-06-2008 12:55pm

I have no doubt there is an element of sensation in the private operators' claims. But they are very small Davids up against a very powerful and government backed Goliath. They have to kick and scream blue bloody murder to be heard.

Dublin Bus say they are operating within the strictures of the Department of Transport. Well I can't speak for today, but up to the middle of last year, Circle Line sent a small number of people out to count the number of Dublin Buses operating on the Lucan Road, and that total was well above the number of actual scheduled departures. This at a time when people were being left behind in Ballyfermot in their hundreds due to not enough buses. Many of the Dublin Buses running side by side with Circle Line were completely empty. The Department DID tell Dublin Bus to remove buses, but the damage was done by then - it was too late. Circle Line simply could not afford to run their full amount of licensed services against that, and because they were not operating the full licence, the Department would not allow them to publish their timetables, which crippled their business even more.

Now that Circle Line has gone, I have no doubt that Dublin Bus can turn their full attention to Swords Express, and run him off the road too. I hope they at least keep their war with Swords Express civilised, and don't resort to using buses full of passengers as 'battering rams' against private buses, like some psychotic Dublin Bus drivers tried to do to Circle Line. The memory of Wellington Quay is still warm.

It is disgusting, corrupt behaviour by a government sponsored organisation, using passengers as pawns in their petty jealousies. Passengers were always 'skulls' in CIE, never customers. Circle Line had many customers who will not resort to using Dublin Bus, out of sheer bad experience. They will most probably end up driving private cars, which is of no benefit to anyone.

Snake Plisken · 21-06-2008 8:14pm

yeah but at peak times in the mornings and afternoons the 25A's & 25X's are always full, customers are crammed in like sardines, I've rang Dublin Bus on this issue before and it was because Circleline had complained so much DB were not allowed to put much needed extra buses on the routes, where were the Circle line buses? Nowhere to be seen.

So from reading some of the comments am I led to believe that we still won't see any additional 25A's or 25X's on the routes when Circle stop operating next week? If that is the case then its a joke, for commuters in Lucan is it worth emailing and calling the likes of Curran Harney to put pressure on the Dept of Transport to allow DB to increase the amount of buses?

howisitgoing · 21-06-2008 11:53pm

Dublin bus won out again with no thought for the 20 people who have lost their jobs

AlekSmart · 22-06-2008 2:27am

I would advocate a wee bit of moderation in this case until the coloured smoke has wafted away (Westwards Presumably ?)

With the 20 drivers in question presumably employed by the newer "Circle Line Bus" company and not directly by Morton Coaches there may well be opportunities for redeployment as yet unpublicised

The burning question which is as yet unanswered is what action,if any,the Dept of Transport will take over the weekend.
The unavailibility of spokespersons either for Minister Dempsey or his Secretary General is notable with only bare-bones stuff having been forthcoming since the announcement.

Oddly enough there is even interest from the UK trade press in our Department`s attitude to the current mess,and a veritable skip load of questions await which ever hapless Media Person pulls the short straw this weekend

As for the Swords Express which continues to operate a well regarded service there are many questions other than how to fry Lobster which remain unanswered,not least of which may relate to the inability of SE to offer a service which complies with the access requirements of the Disability Act 2000.

Ms O Neill`s Department is hugely sensitive to any suggestion that it`s decisions may impact negatively on anybody,and certain elements have commented on how the Departments refusal to allow 41X services through the tunnel did in fact mitigate against disabled users of THAT pre-existing service.

The suggestion that yet another aggrieved person(s) might secure backing to pursue a "case" through the EU courts may well have focused some rheumy eyes in wood pannelled offices

However,a far greater Departmental problem may well exist in the 141 scenario as a kind of dull murmour is beginning to eminate from local Political heavies about this proposed route and the Departments apparent inability to diferentiate between a fully accessible Stage-Carriage service and a Limited Access-Limited Stop Express service.

Some observers have questioned the Department of T`s Taxi Bill in recent times,which I`m sure is well within the guidelines issued by somebody or other....or was that the Gleeson Report on the salaries of higher civil servants...

Victor · 22-06-2008 3:48pm

HydeRoad wrote: »

Now that Circle Line has gone, I have no doubt that Dublin Bus can turn their full attention to Swords Express, and run him off the road too. I hope they at least keep their war with Swords Express civilised, and don't resort to using buses full of passengers as 'battering rams' against private buses, like some psychotic Dublin Bus drivers tried to do to Circle Line. The memory of Wellington Quay is still warm.

While I have seen road users of all varieties going a little too far with their vehicles, I think it is an exaggeration to describe their use as 'battering rams'. If they are ever used in such a manner, a call to the Garda should follow immediately. Wellington Quay, whatever the cause, was not an incident of a vehicle being used as a battering ram.

Care to eleborate?

Rawr · 23-06-2008 2:56pm

FYI,

RTE also covered this on Friday:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0620/bus.html

meanmachine3 · 23-06-2008 7:49pm

i've kept very quiet for the last couple of days but now feel a few things must be said.
firstly i find hyderoad a hypocrite of the highest degree. you go on about dublin bus and how they treated circle line and basically your here singing a private operators praises yet your one of the thousands of taxi drivers calling for an end to deregulation ( competition in my eyes) because there are to many taxi's and not enough money.
secondly i take great offence to what you have said below.

HydeRoad wrote: »

I hope they at least keep their war with Swords Express civilised, and don't resort to using buses full of passengers as 'battering rams' against private buses, like some psychotic Dublin Bus drivers tried to do to Circle Line. The memory of Wellington Quay is still warm.

in case you dont know this hyderoad
there is no war
we dont use buses as battering rams and i have never seen or heard of anything like this before being mentioned.
the driver in the wellington quay incident was totally vindicated in the case set out against him. but your remarks above seem to suggest otherwise.
i have let this go for a couple of days and am now requesting the above paragraph is removed by a mod.
also

HydeRoad wrote: »

don't resort to using buses full of passengers as 'battering rams' against private buses, like some psychotic Dublin Bus drivers tried to do to Circle Line. The memory of Wellington Quay is still warm.

it's fortunate that i dont work the lucan runs otherwise i'd be taking more action than just requesting the above be deleted.

oh and one other thing for all of you women or those of you that have kids that use public transport
how many private operators or taxi drivers carry/ bring you home for nothing when you've no change or dont have a valid ticket.

AlekSmart · 23-06-2008 8:56pm

I can see where Meanmachine3 is coming from and I too was somewhat taken aback by the Wellington Quay reference which,I feel, took the post perilously close to the boundaries of acceptable comment.

With some 3,000 drivers in its employ I have no doubt but HydeRoad has had moments of conflict with other Dublin Bus drivers.
However,I would be very surprised if he/she was experiencing that on an ongoing or alledgedly organized basis.
I would suggest that in the current environment some form of conflict has become an all to frequent imposition on what should be a normal friction free employment

I`m sure that HydeRoad and other readers are more than aware that the Judicial process surrounding the Wellington Quay case involved the most thorough legal processes possible on ALL of the Dublin Bus Staff involved.
There was NEVER any suggestion brought forward in open court of any form of physchosis and that is a matter of legal record.

However,I would suggest that the reference be left as it is and that perhaps HydeRoad might revisit it in the light of reflection and perhaps a thought for those who survived or were otherwise involved in that awful event ?

Phsychotic Busdrivers are not a Dublin Bus specific occurence,however recent high profile events do raise a question as to why Busdriving is now seen as a potential seedbed for its propagation ?

This question may well have something to do with the manner in which the job`s functions have become increasingly difficult to perform with any level of application,let alone proffessionalism.

This in turn lands the issue firmly back in the lap of the Department of Transport and the wider circle of Dublin Citys Traffic and Transport Administration.
Most posters here and most media coverage in the wake of the Circle line "closedown" has NOT focused upon Dublin Bus or Circleline but instead on the apparent inability of a Government Minister and his entire Department to effectively manage a Public Bus service scenario for what is a VERY small and potentially easily managed Capital City.

Instead,the only audible voices for change and progress are from the likes of the 41X Busdriver on RTE`s Liveline or from a few interested parties who can write to various editors on the topic.
Indeed the Ministers fairly "safe" reaction concerning him "writing a letter" to Dublin Bus about it`s responsibilities underlines the uncomfortable fact that this particular Government is divorced from reality on far more than simply the Lisbon Treaty issue.

HydeRoad · 24-06-2008 3:38am

I withdraw the mention of Wellington Quay. It's use was not meant to be taken in the context it was taken - I simply intended to demonstrate that buses by their very nature, their size, power, number of passengers, can be lethal machines, and should be treated with the greatest of respect and care. I did not intend any slight on those involved in that actual incident, which was certainly no deliberate act. I drove buses for many years, and such a situation could be visited unexpectedly on myself or any bus driver, every time he sits behind the wheel of a bus. Mentioning Wellington Quay was out of order, and an oversight on my part. I can think of no good example of the inherent danger of a bus full of passengers under extraordinary circumstances that wouldn't involve the sadness or misfortune of individual people, so I should not use one. My respect to those involved.

I have no interest in arguing with meanmachine3, punctuation or no punctuation. I am willing to debate courteously, but I will not get into a tomato flinging match.

The battering ram term was not aimed at the Wellington Quay bus, but at Dublin Bus drivers who deliberately target private bus drivers on an individual, occasional but far too frequent basis. I personally witnessed some very vindictive behaviour by a small band of Dublin Bus drivers, who seem to treat their responsibilities with abandon, yet remain in their jobs unmolested. I chose Wellington Quay as an example of the kind of results that can occur, nothing more. I was going to detail some of the incidents, which were pretty hair raising, but there would be nothing to be gained from it, and I'll probably only be told I am telling lies, or some other blandishment, and I really don't care much anyway. Some day here, for meanmachine3s benefit, I will detail all the terrible things about driving for a private operator, but this thread is about the unfairness of a state Goliath crushing a niche operator serving a particular market not catered for by Dublin Bus.

P.S. Circle Line were RENOWNED for looking after their passengers with no change for the trip home, so meanmachine3s point about the women and children is a bit contrived. Clutching at straws, and making it personal. Lighten up.

markf909 · 25-06-2008 8:34pm

Hamndegger wrote: »

I can see it now, in fact I will even write it for you now...

Dear Mark, thank you for your letter

This is a matter for somebody else. We love buses and think they are cool.

Signed, a nameless TD. :rolleyes:

Response from Julie herself is that the issue cannot be solved until the dept's "Public Transport Regulation Division" have seen to this.

So any guesses in terms of months before we get any movement on this?

Bearing in mind Circle Line finishes up this week.

meathstevie · 25-06-2008 9:03pm

What's Mr. Morton worried about. In certain parts of south county Dublin you don't even need a licence to run a bus service...

Buffman · 25-06-2008 10:03pm

Living in the half of Celbridge that is'nt served by DB I can say that CL will be missed. They provided a good reliable rush hour service, the 07.20 CL3 would have you in town for around 8ish on an average day, and it was so popular they had to run 2 busses for it.

Hopefully DB will now get permission to put on a few more direct (not serving Lucan) 67X's at peak times to compensate.
And I'll get a bit more excercise with the 20min walk to the DB stop...!:D

AlekSmart · 26-06-2008 12:24am

Markf909 posted....Response from Julie herself is that the issue cannot be solved until the dept's "Public Transport Regulation Division" have seen to this.

Well it`s comforting to know that in times of crisis that the established Civil Service will pull out all of the stops to ensure it meets it`s obligations to the citizenry :rolleyes:

I presume the PTRD section (If its not a figment of Julie`s imagination) has enough on its plate trying to figure out how many unlicenced operators they have on their books as well as trying to define what a Patton Flyer is.

This extra workload may well cause an implosion as we all know that the General Secs have been burning midnight oil in frantic attempts to identify area`s where budgetary savings may be made.....abolishing the PTRD may well be one of these....but then again making do without a Secretary General or two might be less disruptive and save a LOT more money ????

HydeRoad · 26-06-2008 2:38am

There were twelve Circle Line buses that departed RDS Ballsbridge in the evening peak, each carrying dozens of passengers from that one stop, I'd say a hundred to two hundred average from just one bus stop. Those customers have NO replacement bus service other than to get a 7 or 45 bus, sit in the horrendous traffic jams between Merrion Square, Clare Street, Westland Row and Pearse Street, Pearse Street having LOST a good deal of it's bus lane. They then have to transfer from those buses, walk to the 67 bus stop, and board packed buses, and I know from close friends' regular experiences over a period of time, those buses are far slower, taking longer to get from Westmoreland Street to Celbridge than Circle Line took from Ballsbridge! Those passengers face between half an hour to an hour longer to get home in the evenings, which is unacceptable to commuters already spending too great a proportion of their day out of the house.

Local businesses in the Ballsbridge area had rang Circle Line repeatedly about increasing the services for workers, although Circle Line at that stage were cutting the services due to the pressure they were put under. Now running a bus business is no light undertaking, and there were many decisions taken by Circle Line that did not help matters. Many things could have been done differently. I am neither pro private nor pro Dublin Bus. I favour looking and learning from the best practice of all angles. But I make no apology for slating the carry on of Dublin Bus, both officially and unofficially. Dublin Bus did not wish to provide the service Celbridge and Lucan customers cried out for, yet they did not wish anyone else to provide it either. And I am not talking about the Department not allowing them. I am talking about going right back over the years before the Department were ever aware of any problems. If you were in any doubt about that, you should talk to some of the long term customers of Circle Line, who travelled with them from the beginning.

I hope Dublin Bus will provide some level of replacement service, not just to carry the extra numbers from Celbridge and Lucan, but also a through service to Ballsbridge. After all, they did their damnedest to see off Circle Line, allowing for any bad decisions made by Circle Line themselves. And at the end of the day, it is grossly unfair to add another half an hour to an hour's evening travel to already weary commuters. There isn't much room in Pearse Street for all those evening 66 and 67 buses. Why not run some of them across to Ballsbridge, an extra ten minutes' trip, and where there is ample parking space?

KC61 · 26-06-2008 9:17am

HydeRoad wrote: »

There were twelve Circle Line buses that departed RDS Ballsbridge in the evening peak, each carrying dozens of passengers from that one stop, I'd say a hundred to two hundred average from just one bus stop. Those customers have NO replacement bus service other than to get a 7 or 45 bus, sit in the horrendous traffic jams between Merrion Square, Clare Street, Westland Row and Pearse Street, Pearse Street having LOST a good deal of it's bus lane. They then have to transfer from those buses, walk to the 67 bus stop, and board packed buses, and I know from close friends' regular experiences over a period of time, those buses are far slower, taking longer to get from Westmoreland Street to Celbridge than Circle Line took from Ballsbridge! Those passengers face between half an hour to an hour longer to get home in the evenings, which is unacceptable to commuters already spending too great a proportion of their day out of the house.

Local businesses in the Ballsbridge area had rang Circle Line repeatedly about increasing the services for workers, although Circle Line at that stage were cutting the services due to the pressure they were put under. Now running a bus business is no light undertaking, and there were many decisions taken by Circle Line that did not help matters. Many things could have been done differently. I am neither pro private nor pro Dublin Bus. I favour looking and learning from the best practice of all angles. But I make no apology for slating the carry on of Dublin Bus, both officially and unofficially. Dublin Bus did not wish to provide the service Celbridge and Lucan customers cried out for, yet they did not wish anyone else to provide it either. And I am not talking about the Department not allowing them. I am talking about going right back over the years before the Department were ever aware of any problems. If you were in any doubt about that, you should talk to some of the long term customers of Circle Line, who travelled with them from the beginning.

I hope Dublin Bus will provide some level of replacement service, not just to carry the extra numbers from Celbridge and Lucan, but also a through service to Ballsbridge. After all, they did their damnedest to see off Circle Line, allowing for any bad decisions made by Circle Line themselves. And at the end of the day, it is grossly unfair to add another half an hour to an hour's evening travel to already weary commuters. There isn't much room in Pearse Street for all those evening 66 and 67 buses. Why not run some of them across to Ballsbridge, an extra ten minutes' trip, and where there is ample parking space?

Hyde Road, I think we all need to move on from this. The time when DB did not want to serve Lucan/Celbridge/Leixlip/Maynooth was 15-20 years ago (when Mortons stepped in), and this has moved on. The company has expressed its desire repeatedly over the last five years to increase its services in the area, and I think that we need to look at that with an open mind, given most other areas of the city have received increased services through allocations of new buses. Given the population increases in the areas served by the Lucan QBC, this is not an unreasonable request from DB. There are changes in mindset happening in the company - this can be seen with the introduction of direct cross-city routes such as the 4/4A, 128, 140, 151, 145, which would not have happened before.

What could help (as a quick fix) would be for the department to allow DB to use the large tri-axle buses on the 25/A, 66/A/B and 67/A that are currently on route 10. This would help alleviate the capacity shortage on the Lucan QBC with the withdrawal of Circle Line.

The real problem is that Dublin Bus have reallocated all of the additional 100 buses that they received to other services after the department refused to sanction route 141 or increases in the service on the Lucan QBC. So other than allocating large capacity tri-axles to the Lucan QBC, they are left with few options....unless they cut back other routes or if the government converts some of the 150 buses currently on order as replacement vehicles to instead being additional vehicles in the fleet.

A high frequency service from the Lucan QBC to the south city is to my mind something that DB need to look at in the context of the ongoing network review.

parsi · 26-06-2008 9:30am

HydeRoad wrote: »

I personally witnessed some very vindictive behaviour by a small band of Dublin Bus drivers, who seem to treat their responsibilities with abandon, yet remain in their jobs unmolested..

I was threatened with assault by a group of Taxi Drivers when I took pictures of one of their many protests (in this case it was against a hckney firm in Limerick) but I don't drag it in to any discussion about taxis...

Davidth88 · 26-06-2008 10:49am

This is strange , I was always under the impression that DB were not allowed to change the timetable because of the compitition rules , did that change ?

The people in St Raphaels/that side of Celbridge are going to be very badly served now.

Whenever I saw the CL buses they looked full , indeed I used them on occasion and they were jammed.

Of course with the removal of evening services this didn't help , also the points that other posters make about the bus stops/lack of time tables is very true.

Does this mean that DB are going to increase the service for Celbridge and run a bus that does not go through Lucan now ? ( I can guess the answer ) .

markf909 · 26-06-2008 10:58am

Davidth88 wrote: »

Does this mean that DB are going to increase the service for Celbridge and run a bus that does not go through Lucan now ? ( I can guess the answer ) .

The faceless DoT mandarins have to "look into" the situation.

DB hands are tied and the ordinary commuters suffer.

Get writing to Julie O'Neill. She is the one who runs the whole show and draws a very large wage and free car parking spot for all her efforts.

KC61 · 26-06-2008 1:08pm

Dublin Bus cannot change routings or timetables without prior approval from the Department.

They are also precluded from operating the higher capacity tri-axle double deck buses on either the Lucan or Swords QBC's.

However, with the imminent withdrawal of Circle Line, one would hope that the Department would see sense and allow DB to immediately operate the tri-axles on the Lucan corridor thus increasing capacity without changing the timetable as a "quick fix".

Each "VT" has a seating capacity of 91 (an increase of 15 over a standard double deck) and an extra standing capacity of 10-15. That means up to 30 extra passengers per bus. The buses are available as they are on the 10 currently (which can survive with standard double decks).

Given the Department's reluctance to act, I would suggest getting onto local politicians and Ms. O'Neill to allow this to happen.

DB will need to then look at the whole corridor and see what can be done relatively quickly to reorganise routes and increase capacity.

KC61 · 26-06-2008 1:15pm

Davidth88 wrote: »

This is strange , I was always under the impression that DB were not allowed to change the timetable because of the compitition rules , did that change ?

It's nothing to do with competition rules, but rather the Department's narrow interpretation of the 1932 and 1958 Transport Acts, in which they are not prepared to sanction any change in DB operations that might potentially affect a private operator's services in a negative way.

Hence the 141 (Swords-Rathmines via Santry and Drumcondra) was not allowed, because it might affect Swords Express (despite being a normal stopping service and improving the service for Santry, Whitehall and Drumcondra - all of which are not served by Swords Express), and the 37 extension from Riverwood to Blanchardstown Shopping Centre has been turned down as it might affect the URBUS service from Ashtown Park Gate that operates via Castleknock to Blanchardstown and then on to the Airport and Swords.

The Department are not standing back from the desk and looking at the broader picture. Any DB route change that "could" affect a private operation (no matter how small) is being viewed negatively.

Unfortunately this means that people who have paid for new buses through their taxes are being deprived a service.

HydeRoad · 26-06-2008 2:20pm

KC61 wrote: »

Hyde Road, I think we all need to move on from this.

Go down to RDS Ballsbridge tomorrow evening from about 4pm on, and tell all the people waiting on the last Circle Line Buses home that they'll just 'need to move on.' They are human beings with jobs and families and homes they want to go home to. That's who I speak for. VLs will be no use to them.

P.S. It's not a 15 year old problem. When Paul Morton went into a meeting of the Integrated Ticketing Committee recently, Dublin Bus saw him arrive, and turned their backs physically on him. They did not wish the private sector to be integrated with anything. Only Paul Morton was the kind of character you cannot physically turn your back on. He needed and wanted to integrate with the existing services. It would have made sense. Why would Dublin Bus not integrate?

KC61 · 26-06-2008 2:40pm

HydeRoad wrote: »

Go down to RDS Ballsbridge tomorrow evening from about 4pm on, and tell all the people waiting on the last Circle Line Buses home that they'll just 'need to move on.' They are human beings with jobs and families and homes they want to go home to. That's who I speak for. VLs will be no use to them.

P.S. It's not a 15 year old problem. When Paul Morton went into a meeting of the Integrated Ticketing Committee recently, Dublin Bus saw him arrive, and turned their backs physically on him. They did not wish the private sector to be integrated with anything. Only Paul Morton was the kind of character you cannot physically turn your back on. He needed and wanted to integrate with the existing services. It would have made sense. Why would Dublin Bus not integrate?

I am fully aware that relations between Dublin Bus and Mr. Morton were strained at the best of times, and I put that as being due to fault on all sides. But, without an independent DTA with no vested commercial interests, there was or is never going to be integration. However, the immediate problem, which is how to get those people home, is what I am trying to deal with in my posts. Raking over disputes is not going to solve that.

All I'm doing is suggesting that (knowing how hard it is to get anything through the Department) is that the least that they can do is withdraw their objection to DB immediately increasing capacity on the route through larger vehicles. It's a start (but far from being a final solution).

I share your frustration at the lack of any urgency from the Department to effect change, but given the system we've got, we have to work with it, no matter how frustrating it is.

HydeRoad · 26-06-2008 4:45pm

I know that, it's all just such a waste, that there are bus operators out there, large and small, with excellent infrastructures, that through whatever lack of integration and structure, cannot provide an efficient service at the end of the day to the people that really matter, the customers.

Unregulated private bus operation alone would be a disaster. I have seen inside the private sector, and despite what other posters might suggest, I am far from championing the private sector alone as the answer to all ills. But we have a well subsidized state sector, that for whatever reasons, unions, bad management, mistrust, interference, cannot seem to assert itself to provide the kind of answers to the city gridlock, despite it's seeming ability to assert itself in all the wrong directions.

I felt that private competition would give Dublin Bus the impetus to change it's own working practices. This has happened, in the sense of all the extra bus services to the airport, more express bus services, etc. But at the end of the day, Dublin Bus cannot and will not make the real changes necessary without a proper independent regulatory authority. However, I despair at the kind of regulatory authority we might get, having seen the track record of the RPA, the taxi regulator, etc.

Really all the problems stem from a government and a political system that for reasons I do not understand, always seems to lose sight of the customer, the ordinary person on the street, who at the end of the day are the whole point of having such services at all. There are a whole bunch of real people out there who do not care what colour their bus is, but who will lose out because of the closure of Circle Line. They supported Circle Line because they offered a particular service. If Dublin Bus had provided it, they would have supported Dublin Bus. At the very least, the Department and Dublin Bus should come to an arrangement to help those people. Larger buses are not enough, if the buses do not go where the customers wish to go, and in reasonable time.

KC61 · 26-06-2008 5:03pm

Very well put!

AlekSmart · 27-06-2008 1:43am

Hyde Roads hope that the Department of Transport and Dublin Bus can "come to an arrangement" regarding matters pertaining from Monday next sez it all really.

As KC61 points out in an earlier post it is the manner in which the Department CHOOSES to interpret the 1932 and 1958 Transport Acts which has led to much of the current disaster.

This appears to stem from a Departmental ignorance of its own powers under these acts,most obvious in the Ministers statement on record that Bus Routes provided under the 1932 Act cannot be required to utilize Fully Accessible vehicles.
Which begs the question as to why the ONLY full amendment to the 1932 Transport Act was to incorporate the requirements of the Disability Act 2000 into it (The full amendmant of an Act of the Oireachtas is a VERY complex item and not attempted frivolously).

The Department of Transport is currently being administered in a very obviously distressed manner by persons whose grasp of Public Transport Administration appears non-existent.

It has reached the stage where the very authority of the Department can be openly questioned on the most basic of matters with no response or attempt to assert that authority.

Currently the Department`s only effective remit runs to Instructing the CIE group companies to desist from doing anything which could be taken as increasing capacity or improving service levels.

Much of the private sector now appear confident to ignore whatever nonsensical edicts are waved about by the Departmental messengers.
This attitude is even shared by An Garda Siochana who have openly refused to respond to Departmental complaints concerning flagrant breaches of its own regulations.

There are increasingly worrying rumours of savage infighting concerning several major Rail based schemes in the Dublin region due to a lack of Departmental Authority.

I have said it before,but it needs constant re-stating...If anybody wants to gain a fuller knowledge of a Government Department in a state of meltdown then simply read through the minutes of the hearings of the Dail Committee on Public Transport over the last 12 months.....At times it can be truly incredible what Departmental Officials are forced to admit to under probing questioning.

Sadly for everybody involved here,it currently appears that the Department of Transport has NO plans (!!) to put in place a response to Circle Line Bus leaving the pitch.
In Departmental terms it is not of sufficient import to waken the Minister...:mad:

Rawr · 27-06-2008 12:23pm

For the sake of the ex Circle Line passengers who are about to loose their direct link to work, I hope the DoT/DB actually do something soon.

A Celbridge to Ballsbridge Xpesso service is not beyond DB's grasp or abilities. (To the best of my knowledge there's been a 66X going down to Belfield for quite a while).

Alas, like other posters here, dispite being hopeful, I am a realist. The politics of this country have installed what could be best discribed as an elite cast of cowards, into positions which should be filled by leaders.
My fear is, that not only will there be no Circle Line replacment, but that nothing at all with actually happen.

markpb · 27-06-2008 12:27pm

Rawr wrote: »

My fear is, that not only will there be no Circle Line replacment, but that nothing at all with actually happen.

It's not a fear, it's a realistic assumption.

jimmycrackcorm · 28-06-2008 6:53am

i'll miss the way that0the circle line busses would stop for you even he yo t weren't exactly at the stop unlike db who won't let you on if you are at the stop but the driver has closed the doors.

Sainttoff · 01-07-2008 2:26pm

Anyone looking to get to ballsbridge, the 25x and 66x goes as far as Waterloo pub which is a 5 min walk from ballsbridge, i do it every day!!

Sainttoff · 01-07-2008 2:38pm

Have to say the Dublin Buses we get will always stop for you if your not at the stop in the morning, once you just put your hand up when your walking up the road towards them!

Maybe Lucan 25x is just nice bus drivers!

Circle Line to Close, Blame unfair competion from Dublin Bus

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