New provisional law

L-M

stevec wrote: »

people who have obviously had a 'shure it'll be grand' attitude and are now shitting themselves because finally the law is going to be enforced./QUOTE]

That's exaclty what is happening and nicely put. As u said it can be applied to vrt bit as well.
Ha sorry for being a bit jumped lol people coming at me at all angles:D

Alanstrainor

chris11 wrote: »

Grand,what's the difference between a learners permit and a provisional?

All this informtaion can be found on the learning to drive forum, it's been covered countless times before and there is a sticky about it.
learning to drive sticky

bigpinkelephant

Limerick-man wrote: »

Can i ask u one thing for u to answer honestly?

If u needed ur full licence for ur job and ur six months wasn't up for another few months, would you be happy? I sincerely think not. I'm not asking u to tell me "oh it's the law" or anything i'm just asking u would u be happy?.

I would not take a job that I needed a full licence for unless I actually had a full licence.

Yes I would be happy to wait the 6 months as I am able to deal with the fact that just because a law doesn't suit me, doesn't make it less valid as a law. I can see the bigger picture.

zilog_jones

I really hope they do enforce the law properly next month - this shít really has gone on for long enough.

I got a car 2 years ago, and once I felt confident enough (after a good few lessons - no one else in my family drives so I had no other choice really) I was driving on my own, with passengers, and even driving on the M7 and M50 on a provisional because it was socially acceptable and I knew I could get away with it, and I knew I could wait a while before applying for the test so I did that too.

If I wanted to start driving under the new system (assuming I hadn't before) I simply wouldn't have bought a car, and just got lessons for 6 months. Not exactly an impossible feat, which some people seem to be making it out to be.

Limerick-man: Where are you applying for the test? I had to wait 3 months for mine in Limerick (applied in November for Woodview but got it in the NCT centre) - I thought the waiting times would be shorter by now?

paddy reilly

I need my car because i live in the country and there is no public transport as such. I am a professional driver as such i drive tractors as a weekend and holiday job for a contractor. I normally drive a 150hp tractor and a 2600g slurry tanker or a 16ton dump trailer. Or moving diggers on a lowloader. ive been doing this job since i turned 16 and had no problems so far. I have been driving tractors and diggers off road since i was 11 years old. I need to drive and i would have sat my driving test on the morning of my 17th birthday if i was allowed but unfortunately i have to wait till the 2nd of october. I am doing the leaving ccert now and in september i will starty a new job that requires a 15mile drive every day and i will have to do it on a provisional licence thanks to the goverment.

Ferris

Get a push bike, its only 15miles, thats what I did when I was 17.

Anyone know what the insurance companies are going to do if an unaccompanied driver on a learning permit crashes?

peasant

paddy reilly wrote: »

II am a professional driver as such i drive tractors as a weekend and holiday job for a contractor. I normally drive a 150hp tractor and a 2600g slurry tanker or a 16ton dump trailer. Or moving diggers on a lowloader.

That statement scares the sh*t out of me, to be honest.

Victor_M

peasant wrote: »

That statement scares the sh*t out of me, to be honest.

+1
I've been trying to work out how many different laws he's broken, there are too many I can't count them all.

Fairly sure the slurry tanker thing is a broken law, the diggers too, the lowloaders and the of course the tractor, but lets not forget though, he is a professional driver. So that ok, oh yeah I'm not sure putting someone to work behind the wheel of plant machinery at 11 isn't above board either.

ShayK1

wil wrote: »

Before passing my test, I didnt own a car, didnt learn in anything other than an official driving instructers car and passed my test in the same car, first time. Freedom:cool:
I did all that in about 5 weeks.

I had a very good instructer, took lessons every second day and picked up NO bad habits.
Other friends and relations of mine "learned" the Oirish way and took years to pass.

Like with anything you can learn properly and go on to become a decent driver or do the half-assed method and become your average clueless driver you see every day on our roads.

Well done Will,
That's the right way to do it.

Me personally, I learned to drive when I was about 11 years old in a little mini that my siblings and I used to drive around the house. Then once my 17th birthday came along I got my provisional and headed off to get a lesson or 2. I never drove unaccompanied,there was ALWAYS a full licensed driver in the car with me. After my first lesson my instructor was very impressed and told me to apply for my test straight away. So I did. Took a few more lessons with the instructor, practiced with my parents or brothers and 3 months and 2 weeks later I took the test and passed.

Spud83

Man I can't wait for the 1st of July if this law is actually enforced. Boards.ie is going to explode with the amount of complaining.

Zube

paddy reilly wrote: »

I have been driving tractors and diggers off road since i was 11 years old.

Childhood Farm Accidents: a continuing Cause for Concern

YVONNE DOYLE and RONAN CONROY [SIZE=-1] The Eastern Health Board, Naas, Co. Kildare Ireland
Department of Community Medicine, Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland Dublin 2, Ireland [/SIZE]
Farms in Ireland remain a dangerous environment for children despite increasing publicity about farming hazards based on international research. A one year prospective study on farm accidents was carried out in four Irish accident and emergency departments. During this time, four deaths and 62 cases of injury aged 15 years and under were seen. Half the cases required admission to hospital; tractor accidents were common and serious. Most injuries occurred to the extremities but 13 (21 per cent) had multiple injuries. Forty-three (69 per cent) of the children required outpatient follow-up and twenty-seven of these (63 per cent) had more than one outpatient re-visit.
The Irish farming community is still unappreciative of the risks to their children on the farm, and urgent attention needs to be directed towards educational and legislative measures to improve the safety profile of Irish farms.

sk8board

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Man I can't wait for the 1st of July if this law is actually enforced. Boards.ie is going to explode with the amount of complaining.

It will probably be enforced in the evenings and weekends, but I just can't see the system working if they are stopping every car on the way to work in the morning to see if the driver has Pink or Green.

Learners will simply remove their L plates for one thing, thats for sure. Also, no judge in the land will enforce a €1000 fine and up to 3 years in prison on a commuter 'just trying to make a living etc etc etc'.
It just will not work.

As I mentioned yesterday, they only way to scare Provisional's into doing the test is to add this to the penalty points list.

the fact that the RSA are staying quiet on this issue, 3 weeks before it comes into play confirms they won't be pushing as hard as you might think. In fact I reckon they are already delighted with the reaction from Provisionals in the past 7 months. Its better than they ever expected - the number of people applying for the test sky-rocketed, the numbers passing went up, and the waiting time came way down.

Result. Before it even comes into effect.

Cionád

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Man I can't wait for the 1st of July if this law is actually enforced. Boards.ie is going to explode with the amount of complaining.

LOL, so true if it is!

I think it will be only selectively enforced, I can see the Guards clamping down on boy racer types, or possibly young people in general, but i'd say in rural areas and with old people especially the Guards will look the other way.

Kimbot

Wasn't there going to be a max €1000 fine for not displaying your "L" plates aswell as the max €1000 for no full lisenced driver??
Would you really take the risk of dropping €2000 just because the law doesn't suit you??
Thats when boards will explode, the amount of people that will get caught out and then complaining that its a revenue making scheme!!!

Biro

Victor_M wrote: »

+1
I've been trying to work out how many different laws he's broken, there are too many I can't count them all.

Fairly sure the slurry tanker thing is a broken law, the diggers too, the lowloaders and the of course the tractor, but lets not forget though, he is a professional driver. So that ok, oh yeah I'm not sure putting someone to work behind the wheel of plant machinery at 11 isn't above board either.

What law? You're allowed to drive a tractor legally on the road at 16 years of age with a provisional license, which is the only type of license you can get. The slurry tanker - how is that illegal? The digger is on a trailer, which is the place for a digger when moving it from A to B as it's illegal to drive a machine with caterpillar tracks for more than a certain distance on the road, could be 100 metres or something small.
Talk about over reacting. You're from the city, aren't you?

_Kaiser_

First off, these changes to the Provisional/Learner system are long overdue

However, my prediction is that the Gardai will be out enforcing it for the first few weeks (like they did with Penalty points), but after this the money (and media/government interest) will run out so things will drop back to the status-quo we have now :rolleyes:

It should also be remembered that Learners aren't the only problem drivers and there's a lot to be addressed out there - people overtaking dangerously, driving too slow in 100km zones and holding up other traffic by refusing to move over when possible, people not indicating correctly/at all, speeding (and I don't mean a few km over the posted limit), driving around in poor visibility with little/no lights on etc.

Unfortunately these changes will do little to address this. What's required here is for the Gardai to do more than camp out beside the straight, wide streches of road with their speedguns but then this is Ireland where it's more important (and easier!) to be SEEN to be doing something, rather than ACTUALLY doing something.

craichoe

Biro wrote: »

What law? You're allowed to drive a tractor legally on the road at 16 years of age with a provisional license, which is the only type of license you can get. The slurry tanker - how is that illegal? The digger is on a trailer, which is the place for a digger when moving it from A to B as it's illegal to drive a machine with caterpillar tracks for more than a certain distance on the road, could be 100 metres or something small.
Talk about over reacting. You're from the city, aren't you?

Driving farm machinery is dangerous, happens alot whereby 16 year olds flip the tractor and either end up dead or break something. Friend of mine overturned his tractor and smashed his arm up pretty bad, bone was sticking out, lucky he wasnt killed.

I do remember 16 year olds driving into school on the Massey as they couldnt drive a car yet. Also, driving a farm car in fields and driving on a road are not a comparison, any old edjit can drive a car around on muck.

paddy reilly

I am very experienced with farm machinery i started out driving tractors at age 11 because my father is a part time farmer with a 100 suckler cows and i am the eldest son. So it was really nessasary for me to be able to feed the cattle on my own and spread slurry and do ther jobs such as toping. I have never had any accidents because i know me and my machines limitations. For the last while i have been doing dump trailer work working with a team of 6 tractors mainly masseys and mc cormicks. I was the only one who greased the trailer every day checked my tractor for oil. Cleaned down the radiators etc and always washed the tractor every week. I have been trusted with a very expensive piece of machinery and do my best to mind it. None of the other drivers bothered greaseing there trailers and one drivers tail gate seized and anothers rocking beam seized all this was down to lack of proper maintinence and these two drivers were both over the age of 30. I have paid 3000 euros for insurence so the way i look at it i should do as much driving as possible to get value for money. I want to do my test but i cant due to this 6month rule.

sk8board

jonny24ie wrote: »

Wasn't there going to be a max €1000 fine for not displaying your "L" plates aswell as the max €1000 for no full lisenced driver??
Would you really take the risk of dropping €2000 just because the law doesn't suit you??

being in law is one thing; getting a judge to sentence someone to the maximum allowed by law is a wholly other issue.
Look at all the recent cases where murder/manslaughter sentences were seen to be unduely lenient.
Also look at the Cork Hurler who appealed his jail sentence for dangerous/drunk driving, and ended up with a fine of a few hundred quid and 3-months suspended.

the €1000 traffic fines will never happen. It sets an unstable prescedent for other crimes, and before you know it we'll have the 3-strikes rule and get mandetary life for no L plates

ShayK1

paddy reilly wrote: »

I am very experienced with farm machinery i started out driving tractors at age 11 because my father is a part time farmer with a 100 suckler cows and i am the eldest son. So it was really nessasary for me to be able to feed the cattle on my own and spread slurry and do ther jobs such as toping. I have never had any accidents because i know me and my machines limitations. For the last while i have been doing dump trailer work working with a team of 6 tractors mainly masseys and mc cormicks. I was the only one who greased the trailer every day checked my tractor for oil. Cleaned down the radiators etc and always washed the tractor every week. I have been trusted with a very expensive piece of machinery and do my best to mind it. None of the other drivers bothered greaseing there trailers and one drivers tail gate seized and anothers rocking beam seized all this was down to lack of proper maintinence and these two drivers were both over the age of 30. I have paid 3000 euros for insurence so the way i look at it i should do as much driving as possible to get value for money. I want to do my test but i cant due to this 6month rule.

Crazy off topic question BUT... what's the purpose of topping? I used to work in an agri garage and I've assembled many Abbey and Major toppers to name a few but never really knew what topping was for? Why not just mow? What's the difference between topping and mowing?

Yakult

phutyle wrote: »

I hope they enforce it. It'll be a waste of time otherwise.

Almost every country in the world requires learner drivers to be accompanied, and many place time, speed and vehicle power restrictions on them too, so don't go thinking that you're being hard done by. The purpose of a learner permit (provisional licences are being phased out now), is to learn to drive - not to get to work, go to the shops, etc.

So, the short answer to "what do they expect us to do" is

1. Get some lessons from a competent, professional driving instructor.
2. Get whatever practice you can in the company of a suitably licenced driver.
3. Pass your test.

Thats fine, but you have to wait 6 months till you can go for your test..

Im not gonna sit back and wait for a full liecensed drive (of 2 years exp. bull****) to be in the car with me. Considering I have to wait another 3-4 months till I can apply for my test when I could do it now is rediculous.

paddy reilly

Topping is a job which you do after cattle are finished in a particular field to tidy it up and to make the grass grow back quicker.
A mower is far to valuable to take into most grazing fields as if you hit a big stone it will probably wreck the bed of the mower which will cost thousands to fix.
Whereas a topper is designed to be able to withstand hitting small stones and if it hits a big stone that would wreck the bed of a normal mower all it will do is break a shear bolt which is cheap and easy to replace.
There are machines made now which can mow and top but these are really only suitabe for fields with no stones.

Alanstrainor

paddy reilly wrote: »

I am very experienced with farm machinery i started out driving tractors at age 11 because my father is a part time farmer with a 100 suckler cow.....I want to do my test but i cant due to this 6month rule.

What exactly do you expect to happen then? Modify the law to take into account of your supposed "experience". Your case is a small minority, and as far as i'm concerned everyone should be treated equally for testing purposes.

ShayK1

paddy reilly wrote: »

Topping is a job which you do after cattle are finished in a particular field to tidy it up and to make the grass grow back quicker.
A mower is far to valuable to take into most grazing fields as if you hit a big stone it will probably wreck the bed of the mower which will cost thousands to fix.
Whereas a topper is designed to be able to withstand hitting small stones and if it hits a big stone that would wreck the bed of a normal mower all it will do is break a shear bolt which is cheap and easy to replace.
There are machines made now which can mow and top but these are really only suitabe for fields with no stones.

Cool! Thanks. I know the mechanics behind it, and I know about topping skids for mowers and the like, but never knew the WHY? Cheers.

Zube

R_H_C_P wrote: »

Im not gonna sit back and wait for a full liecensed drive (of 2 years exp. bull****) to be in the car with me.

How will your insurance co. feel about your first big smash? Do come back and let us know! If you hit me, I'm reasonably sure they'll pay up. I wouldn't bother with comprehensive cover if I were you, though, you'l need the premium to pay for a lawyer to stand up in court and tell the judge "admitted and regretted" while you look suitably sorry in your new suit and haircut.

Biro

craichoe wrote: »

Driving farm machinery is dangerous, happens alot whereby 16 year olds flip the tractor and either end up dead or break something. Friend of mine overturned his tractor and smashed his arm up pretty bad, bone was sticking out, lucky he wasnt killed.

I do remember 16 year olds driving into school on the Massey as they couldnt drive a car yet. Also, driving a farm car in fields and driving on a road are not a comparison, any old edjit can drive a car around on muck.

I never said it wasn't dangerous, I was asking where the law forbids all the things that Victor was talking about.
Also, driving a car is dangerous too, and anyone who doesn't treat a tractor, truck, car or bus as a lethal machine is a fool.
Paddy sounds like a responsible fella, abiding by the law from what I can gather from his posts, and he's being slated by all the do-gooders pointing the finger at the death causers on the roads.
I agree farm machinary is highly dangerous, and a lot of young fellas don't treat them with respect, that's due to their education by their parents or relations or neighbours. But the same idiots with no respect for a tractor, will have no respect for a car either, and that'll cause the death of more people. So saying all young tractor drivers are dangerous while implying that all young car drivers are fine is silly.

chipclub

This is like any rule or process change in that those people who are affected will find it very hard to accept. Give it a few years and those who are currently in their early teens will know of no other way and will accept that this is how it works.

I grew up in Belfast where this system was rigidly enforced. If you want to drive a car you take lessons, you practice with a fully qualified passenger and then you take the test. If you fail you take more lessons and when you pass you put up your "R" plate for a year. This is simply how it works and there is no arguement about it. Nobody, and I mean nobody, takes a job or does anything else that requires them to drive a car until they have passed the test.

Victor_M

Biro wrote: »

I never said it wasn't dangerous, I was asking where the law forbids all the things that Victor was talking about.
Also, driving a car is dangerous too, and anyone who doesn't treat a tractor, truck, car or bus as a lethal machine is a fool.
Paddy sounds like a responsible fella, abiding by the law from what I can gather from his posts, and he's being slated by all the do-gooders pointing the finger at the death causers on the roads.
I agree farm machinary is highly dangerous, and a lot of young fellas don't treat them with respect, that's due to their education by their parents or relations or neighbours. But the same idiots with no respect for a tractor, will have no respect for a car either, and that'll cause the death of more people. So saying all young tractor drivers are dangerous while implying that all young car drivers are fine is silly.

If there is nothing illegal about an 11 your old driving a tractor then I stand corrected and apologise, but for Paddy to be a self proclaimed professional driver is a little bit Irish, just because he is self taught doesn't make him any good, Sounds like he has been getting on fine with out any sort of License up to now, all of a sudden now that he has to wait 6 months he's up the walls.

Why couldn't he have applied for the test before this learners permit 6 month rule came into play?

We're not here to debate the rules of farmyard practise it about unlicensed people who didn't bother their holes applying for the drivng test in time whinging about having to abide by the laws that the rest of us do.

biko

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

€1,000 for the 1st offence,

€2,000 for the 2nd,

Presumably it's a disqualification after that(?).

I've been goggling to try to find that info. You have a link?

Biro

Victor_M wrote: »

If there is nothing illegal about an 11 your old driving a tractor then I stand corrected and apologise, but for Paddy to be a self proclaimed professional driver is a little bit Irish, just because he is self taught doesn't make him any good, Sounds like he has been getting on fine with out any sort of License up to now, all of a sudden now that he has to wait 6 months he's up the walls.

Why couldn't he have applied for the test before this learners permit 6 month rule came into play?

We're not here to debate the rules of farmyard practise it about unlicensed people who didn't bother their holes applying for the drivng test in time whinging about having to abide by the laws that the rest of us do.

You can drive anything you like anywhere that's not in a public place at any age. He said he's driving on the road since 16. You're quick to tell him he's breaking the law, but not so quick to read his post carefully.
He said he'd have sat his test on his 17th birthday if he was allowed, but you're not allowed apparently, because of the 6 month rule, which I'm guessing means that when you get your provisional license you have to wait 6 months before applying for the test, I don't know. You flew off the handle on a tangent accusing a guy for breaking the law in the wrong, and then complain that he won't apply for his test, when he's trying to explain why he has to wait till October.
Also, on the professional driver comment, technically if you're being paid to do a certain job that you're trained to do, that equates to you being a professional. He's being paid to drive. Personally I think only professional racing and rallying drivers should be called professional drivers, but that's an opinion and doesn't negate the fact.