New provisional law

chris11

What's the craic with the new provisional thats coming out at the end of the month?

Gregor Samsa

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055176756

scroll down to the "Changes to the Driver Licensing System"

chris11

phutyle wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055176756

Thanks.Do you think they will actually inforce this law strictly?What do they expect provisional drivers to do?I will have to ask a friend to come round to my house so I can drive my car and then tell them to get the bus home.

ShayK1

chris11 wrote: »

Thanks.Do you think they will actually inforce this law strictly?What do they expect provisional drivers to do?I will have to ask a friend to come round to my house so I can drive my car and then tell them to get the bus home.

or go pass your test?

chris11

ShayK1 wrote: »

or go pass your test?

I'll be getting insured for the first time in a few days, how long will have to wait to pass my test?

Gregor Samsa

chris11 wrote: »

Thanks.Do you think they will actually inforce this law strictly?What do they expect provisional drivers to do?I will have to ask a friend to come round to my house so I can drive my car and then tell them to get the bus home.

I hope they enforce it. It'll be a waste of time otherwise.

Almost every country in the world requires learner drivers to be accompanied, and many place time, speed and vehicle power restrictions on them too, so don't go thinking that you're being hard done by. The purpose of a learner permit (provisional licences are being phased out now), is to learn to drive - not to get to work, go to the shops, etc.

So, the short answer to "what do they expect us to do" is

1. Get some lessons from a competent, professional driving instructor.
2. Get whatever practice you can in the company of a suitably licenced driver.
3. Pass your test.

Gumbo

ShayK1 wrote: »

or go pass your test?

while agreeing with your comment, how can it be justified when there is still a year of a waiting list in some test centres!

ShayK1

chris11 wrote: »

I'll be getting insured for the first time in a few days, how long will have to wait to pass my test?

dunno, but I'd suggest applying now... if you think you're up to passing it.
Otherwise, take lessons until you're good enough to pass and then apply.

ShayK1

kceire wrote: »

while agreeing with your comment, how can it be justified when there is still a year of a waiting list in some test centres!

find a test center with a smaller waiting list?

Gumbo

ShayK1 wrote: »

dunno, but I'd suggest applying now... if you think you're up to passing it.
Otherwise, take lessons until you're good enough to pass and then apply.

apply straight away, my sis only done hers yesterday after applying last september in finglas

ShayK1

phutyle wrote: »

I hope they enforce it. It'll be a waste of time otherwise.

Almost every country in the world requires learner drivers to be accompanied, and many place time, speed and vehicle power restrictions on them too, so don't go thinking that you're being hard done by. The purpose of a learner permit (provisional licences are being phased out now), is to learn to drive - not to get to work, go to the shops, etc.

So, the short answer to "what do they expect us to do" is

1. Get some lessons from a competent, professional driving instructor.
2. Get whatever practice you can in the company of a suitably licenced driver.
3. Pass your test.

+1

chris11

i dont think this law is practical,both my mother and my brother are on provisionals,a lot of my mates will be away for the summer.I don't know anyone with a full liscense who could be bothered driving to my house just to get in my car,so how am I supposed to drive?

Hanley

ShayK1 wrote: »

or go pass your test?

That's ridiculous. You can't just "go pass your test". There's still ridiculously long waiting lists. If they want this system to work, and for it to be fair, you have to be able to sit a test with minimal waiting times.

Johnny Utah

phutyle wrote: »

I hope they enforce it. It'll be a waste of time otherwise.

Almost every country in the world requires learner drivers to be accompanied, and many place time, speed and vehicle power restrictions on them too, so don't go thinking that you're being hard done by. The purpose of a learner permit (provisional licences are being phased out now), is to learn to drive - not to get to work, go to the shops, etc.

So, the short answer to "what do they expect us to do" is

1. Get some lessons from a competent, professional driving instructor.
2. Get whatever practice you can in the company of a suitably licenced driver.
3. Pass your test.

+1

I too hope that this will be enforced strictly.

John Mason

well, all my family live in another county and i have no one around me with a full licence. so i just wont be driving my car on the 1st July unless i pass my test in the meantime.


In fairness, i dont know why you are bitching, you have all know about this since last october. Guess what, sometimes there are rules in life which suck

ShayK1

chris11 wrote: »

i dont think this law is practical,both my mother and my brother are on provisionals,a lot of my mates will be away for the summer.I don't know anyone with a full liscense who could be bothered driving to my house just to get in my car,so how am I supposed to drive?

until you're a compedent driver I don't think you are. That's the point.
You get lessons, you do a test, IF you pass... then you can drive on your own.

ShayK1

Hanley wrote: »

That's ridiculous. You can't just "go pass your test". There's still ridiculously long waiting lists. If they want this system to work, and for it to be fair, you have to be able to sit a test with minimal waiting times.

as IrishBird mentioned, its not like this was sprung on you from nowhere. Its been coming since October '07.
If people haven't done anything about getting a full license in the pass 7 months (and there's another few weeks to go till June 30th) then its their own fault.

Spud83

Driving test wait times are down, I dont think any centre now has a year long wait.

If you dont have an fully licensed driver to go with then you will have to pay for lessons.

If you are only about to be insured for the first time you shouldn't be on the road on your own for ages yet.

I recommend get your provisional licence.
Apply for your test.
Getting driving lessons with a fully qualified instructor.
Pass the test.

What do you want to happen that you can just go in get a license and be let drive all in one day. You have to learn first FFS.

Besides it has always been the law that you are not aloud drive without an unaccomapnied driver unless you were on your second provisional. So unless you are on a second provisonal these "new" laws dont effect you. Oh and if your mother and brother are on provisonal shouldn't they have sorted out their test by now.

Ferris

Its the same old attitude of people thinking that the state owes them a licence, the fact is that a driving licence has to be earned, that way people will take more care in keeping it.

Why hasn't some firm like SGS come up with a week long intensive driving course with a licence at the end. Such a course could cover skid recovery, car control etc. It'd be the way to do it and I reakon that a lot of people would go for it.

Spud83

Ferris wrote: »

Its the same old attitude of people thinking that the state owes them a licence, the fact is that a driving licence has to be earned, that way people will take more care in keeping it.

Why hasn't some firm like SGS come up with a week long intensive driving course with a licence at the end. Such a course could cover skid recovery, car control etc. It'd be the way to do it and I reakon that a lot of people would go for it.

Firstly the SGS is an third party company that have had driving test outsourced to them. They have no say over the content of the test etc..

Are you saying this is the only way you should be able to get a license? As expecting people to take a week out of their lives (work, children) etc would be asking a bit much I feel.

*Tripper*

Well I really hope they enforce it, easy for me to say as I passed my test with not one problem. But some learner drivers are such ret@rds.

peasant

*Tripper* wrote: »

But some learner drivers are such ret@rds.

You will find that that particular trait is not connected in any way to what licence people do or don't hold ...it seems to work on percentage ratio, unfortunately

Petrolium Hat

Hanley wrote: »

That's ridiculous. You can't just "go pass your test". There's still ridiculously long waiting lists. If they want this system to work, and for it to be fair, you have to be able to sit a test with minimal waiting times.

There isn't really, the published lists are down to an average of 8.2 weeks,(http://www.drivingtest.ie/frameset.html) which is significantly down from a year ago when people had to wait a year. If you want to put yourself on a cancellation list you'll get one within a couple of weeks. There's no excuse other not being bothered/not being up to standard.

I hope they enforce it. They only enforce speeding limits on straight roads on sunny days so I can't see it happening significantly.

Ferris

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Firstly the SGS is an third party company that have had driving test outsourced to them. They have no say over the content of the test etc..

They could still do the standard test at the end of the couse. I reakon the government, RSA etc would support someone taking on the problem of poor driver training for them.

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Are you saying this is the only way you should be able to get a license? As expecting people to take a week out of their lives (work, children) etc would be asking a bit much I feel.

I didn't say it should be the only way. But I don't think its asking too much for someone to take 'a week out of their lives' to learn how to drive to a good standard. It may save their life someday. Certainly when people will have to be accompanied while they wait for a test this option could be an attractive one.

ShayK1

Petrolium Hat wrote: »

There isn't really, the published lists are down to an average of 8.2 weeks,(http://www.drivingtest.ie/frameset.html) which is significantly down from a year ago when people had to wait a year. If you want to put yourself on a cancellation list you'll get one within a couple of weeks. There's no excuse other not being bothered/not being up to standard.

I hope they enforce it. They only enforce speeding limits on straight roads on sunny days so I can't see it happening significantly.

http://www.drivingtest.ie/Stats%20English.pdf thats a more specific link

Spud83

Ferris wrote: »

They could still do the standard test at the end of the couse. I reakon the government, RSA etc would support someone taking on the problem of poor driver training for them.



I didn't say it should be the only way. But I don't think its asking too much for someone to take 'a week out of their lives' to learn how to drive to a good standard. It may save their life someday. Certainly when people will have to be accompanied while they wait for a test this option could be an attractive one.

I agree on both your points. Once there is the current option still available to people as well. i.e getting lessons in your own time, practicing with a qualified driver etc etc.

Your idea would certainly be an attractive option to some people, but others might like to learn in a less pressured enviroment.

EDIT: Unfortunantly its one problem at time. Getting the driving test times down (largely accomplished), and getting people who have never passed or bothered to attempt the test off the road.

Victor_M

The amount of L plates I still see on the M50 beggars belief, unfortunately the chances of this law being enforced going by the guards past record is slim to none, people will just take off their L plates.

Younger people in this country have had it way too easy getting insured on Mommy or Daddy's car with no real incentive to take the test. There are so many L drivers around where I live that tear around the place with their mates in the car with them it's not funny.

As has been mentioned numerous times here, this has been coming for well over a year, the test waiting times are way down, those moaning about it are simply too lazy to apply and go through the correct channels to get their licence. As it requires a bit of study and a fair bit of practise.

I really hope they crack down hard, it will ultimately make the roads safer for all of us.

S.I.R

the new law is B.S !


you need a leaner permit, but you need a fulyl leisenced driver at all times and L plates.... i agree with L plates but imo change them to green if the guys say a complete learner or the normal red if the guy has done the test before....


as far as the fully leisenced driver part... id be blessed to have anyone get into a car with me....


not that im dangerous or anything but most people i know are on prov. 2+


but my question for everyone here is: How can you learn how to drive if you Must have a Fully leisenced driver with you at all times... ?

doesnt fully make sence with me...

ShayK1

S.I.R wrote: »

but my question for everyone here is: How can you learn how to drive if you Must have a Fully leisenced driver with you at all times... ?

doesnt fully make sence with me...

my question to YOU is How can you learn how to drive if you DON'T have a fully licensed driver there to instruct you?

Trial and Error doesn't work to well here man......

biko

It's pretty simple really, if you don't have the full licence you don't drive.
Take the bus or whatnot.
I know it's a terrible inconvenience but L plates has been getting away for too long, while everyone is complaining about the standard of driving in this country.

Stop complaining, everywhere else in Europe (World?) that's how it works.

but my question for everyone here is: How can you learn how to drive if you Must have a Fully leisenced driver with you at all times... ?

That IS how you learn. The real driver can explain things to you so you don't have to guess by yourself.

Victor_M

S.I.R wrote: »

the new law is B.S !


you need a leaner permit, but you need a fulyl leisenced driver at all times and L plates.... i agree with L plates but imo change them to green if the guys say a complete learner or the normal red if the guy has done the test before....


as far as the fully leisenced driver part... id be blessed to have anyone get into a car with me....


not that im dangerous or anything but most people i know are on prov. 2+


but my question for everyone here is: How can you learn how to drive if you Must have a Fully leisenced driver with you at all times... ?

doesnt fully make sence with me...

Cough*Spelling*Cough

Anyhoo, if you don't have a fully licensed driver at your disposal, it's your responsibility to get lessons, like anything else in life you can't just pick and choose which laws you approve of and which ones you don't.
If you can't afford lessons, and don't have anyone to sit with you then you aren't qualified to get behind the wheel of a car in the first place.

sk8board

Petrolium Hat wrote: »

There isn't really, the published lists are down to an average of 8.2 weeks,(http://www.drivingtest.ie/frameset.html) which is significantly down from a year ago when people had to wait a year. If you want to put yourself on a cancellation list you'll get one within a couple of weeks.

my DW applied for her test on hearing about this rule last October (remember they were originally going to introduce it with 3 days warning over the Oct bank holiday weekend?!)

She applied for cancellations each time (unfortunately took 3 attempts), and she got notice of each test only 2 weeks after (re)applying. i..e a waiting time of 2-3 weeks.

She had to apply to Finglas, which all the figures showed had the longest waiting lists.

*Tripper*

peasant wrote: »

You will find that that particular trait is not connected in any way to what licence people do or don't hold ...it seems to work on percentage ratio, unfortunately

Yeah true, more challenging driving tests perhaps? MUCH MORE CHALLENGING! Mondello?

Petrolium Hat

ShayK1 wrote: »

http://www.drivingtest.ie/Stats%20English.pdf thats a more specific link

Cheers!

ShayK1

sk8board wrote: »

my DW applied for her test on hearing about this rule last October (remember they were originally going to introduce it with 3 days warning over the Oct bank holiday weekend?!)

She applied for cancellations each time (unfortunately took 3 attempts), and she got notice of each test only 2 weeks after (re)applying. i..e a waiting time of 2-3 weeks.

She had to apply to Finglas, which all the figures showed had the longest waiting lists.

is DW your little sister?

gazzer

http://www.drivingtest.ie/Stats%20English.pdf thats a more specific link

Wow there is only a 6 week waiting list for Finglas according that that link. Thats very impressive considering there was an almost 1 year waiting list this time last year.

mikemac

It’s just enforcing what was already there.

It was much the same with the drink driving laws. People failed to see what was wrong with a few drinks but there was a crackdown and people’s attitudes have changed.
10-15 years a huge amount of people never wore a seatbelt and if you watched a checkpoint, you’d see people frantically belting up. Some still do this but I’d guess well over 80% of people always wear their seatbelt. Again attitudes have changed.

In 3-4 years, we’ll look back at laugh at the days when people did their theory test and got their licence and drove away.

Hey, just my opinion and maybe it’s daft

ShayK1

the one that annoys me is that people can FAIL their driving test and then get back into car and drive home.

eh WTF?

DonJose

kceire wrote: »

how can it be justified when there is still a year of a waiting list in some test centres!

Hanley wrote: »

There's still ridiculously long waiting lists.

Ever wonder why the waiting lists are so long. There was a loophole in the system that meant all provisional drivers had to do to get a new provisional license was to apply for the test, not actually sit the test. So you had a huge percentage of cancellations or no shows. When the new law was introduced hundreds of thousands of provisional drivers applied for the test at roughly the same time, even crashing the driver test web server. Do I have any sympathy? NO!

R.O.R

S.I.R wrote: »

but my question for everyone here is: How can you learn how to drive if you Must have a Fully leisenced driver with you at all times... ?

It's pretty fu**ing simple, and thats the way the rest of the civilised world do it.

Take lessons with a qualified instructor who teaches you to drive, rather than arming yourself with a deadly weapon you have a rough idea of how to use it, rather than an in depth knowledge.

token56

*Tripper* wrote: »

Well I really hope they enforce it, easy for me to say as I passed my test with not one problem. But some learner drivers are such [EMAIL="ret@rds."]ret@rds.[/EMAIL]

True their alot learner drivers that are out on the road that shouldn't be their and I dont have a problem with the law being enforced.

What I do have a problem with is the debacle that is waiting for a driving test and the driving test itself. First if the waiting time is a disgrace. Having waited 6 months to get a date I received a letter from SGS telling me to ring them and they would give me a date. However when I rang them I was told the test centre (Portlaoise) was booked out and would be waiting a minimum 3 months (well after 30th June so pretty useless to me). I said this was ridiculous, that I was already waiting 6 months, they asked if their was any other centre I could do it in. I sort of know Tullamore so asked about there, I could get a date their for mid June so had know real option but to take that. After all this I was talking to a friend who applied for a test in the same centre 3 weeks ago (no cancellation, no letter from an employer) and got a date for later this month its crazy.

Besides this, it seems that different testers have different standards with regards whats acceptable or not acceptable. There is also the problem of quota's for the amount of drivers which are allowed to pass and which are not. I have a good friend who is a driving tester and has admitted this to me, that they are only allowed to pass a certain percentage, around 50%. This is just idiotic as the driving test then becomes in part a lottery as to what driving intructor you had, what sort of mood he is in and have many have already passed that day. If this was sorted out things would be alot better.

If things were to be done right, drivers should not be tested just once in your life, something like mandatory retesting every ten years or so to see if your still fit to drive. From what I have seen many drivers pick up bad habbits and would not pass the driving test if they were to take it today. Especially when some people got licenses in the post never having to do a test back when the postal strike happened.

ShayK1

While you make alot of good points there (and some horrible spelling mistakes), the quality of the test is a separate issue.

The fact of the matter is that from July 1st it will be against the law for an L driver to drive unaccompanied... are you going to decide what laws you're going to follow and which ones to ignore?

mikemac

token56 wrote: »

There is also the problem of quota's for the amount of drivers which are allowed to pass and which are not. I have a good friend who is a driving tester and has admitted this to me, that they are only allowed to pass a certain percentage, around 50%.

Well if a driving instructor said this then that is good backup and proof for you but until I hear this for myself then I'll believe it's a urban myth

Did the tester tell you then never pass anyone on Monday mornings as they are grumpy and they pass everyone on Friday evening as they are looking forward to the weekend? :rolleyes:
And don’t get me started on girls who are told to dress attractively for their test.
I hear these stories also when someone talks about quotas.

NullZer0

The only reason you think you NEED a license is because society has told you.You believe its in your best interest.

Don't get me wrong, safety on the road is very important and you should know what you are doing but I think the whole thing is a joke.

I mean - at present you need a fully licensed driver with you on your 1st and 3rd provisional. Why not the 2nd?

Seriously - who comes up with this stuff?

Similar to whoever comes up with speed limits - the same people probably drive to work on city roads/ motorway everyday. I have seen some insanely high speed signs in my local area (taking the danger of the roads & amount of accidents into consideration).


Whats more is you can have a drink and drive once below the legal limit - but if you are sober with a provisional license you need a fully licensed driver with you.

Come on!

Alanstrainor

Leaner Permits were brought in on the 30th of October last year. The 30th of June deadline only applies to those still on provisional licenses, which means that anyone holding a 2nd provisional license will have to drive with a fully licensed driver who has held his/her license for 2 years or more after the 30th of June deadline.

kceire wrote: »

apply straight away, my sis only done hers yesterday after applying last september in finglas

Waiting times have dropped drastically, to the extent that a date for a test can be gotten in and average of 8 weeks, and as little as 4 weeks for a lot of Dublin test centres.

And just to note, come the day of your test you must be holding your learners permit for 6 months, you can apply for your test before having your license for months.

Alanstrainor

token56 wrote: »

. There is also the problem of quota's for the amount of drivers which are allowed to pass and which are not. I have a good friend who is a driving tester and has admitted this to me, that they are only allowed to pass a certain percentage, around 50%.

That is complete and utter rubbish, who ever told you that is a liar. The tester will pass you if you show your self to be a safe and capable driver in the brief drive around the block that is the Irish driving test. That does not make you a "good" driver, all it shows is that you can handle the very basics of driving safely.

*Tripper*

^ Yes, absolute bollix.

Spud83

iRock wrote: »

The only reason you think you NEED a license is because society has told you.You believe its in your best interest.

Because society told us to. No I just think its a good idea that somebody should be tested before they get behind a wheel. I wouldn't try flying a plane on my own with no license?

iRock wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, safety on the road is very important and you should know what you are doing but I think the whole thing is a joke.

Sorry this is stupid. You agree that people should know what they are doing before but don't think this knowledge should be tested?

iRock wrote: »

I mean - at present you need a fully licensed driver with you on your 1st and 3rd provisional. Why not the 2nd?

Seriously - who comes up with this stuff

This is what they are fixing why are you giving out?

iRock wrote: »

Similar to whoever comes up with speed limits - the same people probably drive to work on city roads/ motorway everyday. I have seen some insanely high speed signs in my local area (taking the danger of the roads & amount of accidents into consideration).

Well I don't know your area so i cant comment. The actually think a lot of speed limits around my way are stupid but I still stick to them. I don't agree with them but its still the law.

iRock wrote: »

Whats more is you can have a drink and drive once below the legal limit - but if you are sober with a provisional license you need a fully licensed driver with you.

Come on!

I cant believe you are trying to compare someone under the legal limit to somebody on a provisional. They are completely separate issues.

Somebody driving on a provisional = somebody who has not demonstrated that they have the knowledge and ability to drive safely. There should be nobody on a provisional anymore unless they choose to be, by either not bothering to sit the test, by failing the test or they are in fact learner drivers.

Driving is a privilege not a right. You have to earn that privilege and remember that it can be taken away form you.

Ferris

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Driving is a privilege not a right. You have to earn that privilege and remember that it can be taken away form you.

+1

What I wanted to say only only better:D

paddy reilly

This is a load of bollocks. im driving since me 17th birthday on the 2nd of april in me 02 golf disel on a learners permit. I have allready applied for a test only to be told i had to wait for 6 months to take a test. I just dont get why i want to do a test but the assholes in the goverment wont let me. so now i have to drive around without L plates just to get to where i need to go.Having a fully licensed driver is not an option for me what would the point in having a car then be? I need my car to get to school and work. i have covered 3500 miles in the last 2 months. i have been waved through many cheque points never stoped thank god.also to the people who are sitting up on there high horses in this thread. GET OVER YOURSELVES. I appologise to assholes for considering them in the same light as this countrys goverment its an insult to you.

Alanstrainor

paddy reilly wrote: »

This is a load of bollocks. im driving since me 17th birthday on the 2nd of april in me 02 golf disel on a learners permit. I have allready applied for a test only to be told i had to wait for 6 months to take a test. I just dont get why i want to do a test but the assholes in the goverment wont let me. so now i have to drive around without L plates just to get to where i need to go.Having a fully licensed driver is not an option for me what would the point in having a car then be? I need my car to get to school and work. i have covered 3500 miles in the last 2 months. i have been waved through many cheque points never stoped thank god.also to the people who are sitting up on there high horses in this thread. GET OVER YOURSELVES. I appologise to assholes for considering them in the same light as this countrys goverment its an insult to you.

The test is there for a reason, and so are the new regulations. Mostly to stop young inexperienced drivers being able drive around like lunatics without any experience. Up to recently these regulations have been largely overlooked by Gradaí, but on the learning to drive forum i'm reading more and more people being stopped and prosecuted for driving unaccompanied on learner permits.
You've had no more than 2 months driving experience and yet you feel you should be allowed to do what you want? How did you get to school and work before April?
As for saying what's the point in having a car? Learn, get your license and then you'll have all the time to enjoy your motor.