United Ireland Poll

kreuzberger

rb_ie wrote: »

Lol, I voice my opinion and I get pm's calling me a West Brit and telling me I'm not Irish and shouldn't classify myself as such.

These assclowns do a lot for the "yes" side, f*cking IRA loving scumbags stuck in the past.

Oh and huge lol at the people saying "Well the majority in NI who are protestant voted to keep it a part of Britain".

your posts seemed positively designed to cause offence and indeed it was yourself who first argued that Irish citizens from the occupied territory werent Irish , that Irish territory was British etc , so you cant really complain when your own outward lack of patriotism and support for British rule in your country calls your own Irishness into question . Whilst id completely disagree with anyone sending you abusive pms i also find your abusive and obscene language wholly unnecessary and indeed offensive . Its dragging down the tone of the debate , as do your accusations of support for terrorism with anyone who disagrees with you .

kreuzberger

kreuzberger wrote: »

Uniting people when a major power which operates a divide and rule policy is actively involved in your affairs is a ridiculous notion . .

And exactly what "divide & rule" policies are you referring to, when you consider that both the DUP & SF are running the show!

kreuzberger

Dudess wrote: »

I don't know. A load of dynamite sticks along the border might break it off. Then again, who's to say the 26 counties wouldn't float downwards and end up in Africa... :eek:

geologists

Dudess

Oh yeah...

Lighten up will you?

kreuzberger

sorry , meant to stick a few smilies in there


:p:p

I have a hunch though that your idea of sending tonnes of TNT up to the border might go down well with a few people better than you think , but possibly not for the reason you had intended

Eoin

Deleted User wrote: »

70% of jobs in the north are public service!Definitely a natural compliment to free state agriculture:pac:

F-ck me - is it that high? The public sector up there also earn fully 20% more than the private sector. Maybe there's room for more paper shufflers in the HSE...

kreuzberger wrote:

And believe it or not there are more things to life than an on paper economy.

Did you not mind paying 65% income tax back in the day?

Dudess

Dudess wrote: »

I don't know. A load of dynamite sticks along the border might break it off. Then again, who's to say the 26 counties wouldn't float downwards and end up in Africa... :eek:

According to an American (not sure of his profession - if any) all countries that are on continental shelfs are at risk of sliding into the neighbouring ocean.

Be careful with that dynamite or semtex, you'll sink us all.

kreuzberger

somehow i couldnt imagine the germans sounding so afraid of unification despite facing much bigger economic and hurdles and tring to integrate an economy that was 100% public sector. But then again that was a civilised and cultured country .

j1smithy

Yeah unite the people before the country... like this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQJrovKgrTw

Heart says yes, head says no.

In all fairness though unification won't happen for a generation at least and would probably take about 10 years to complete, during which time lay offs in the public sector and the dismantling of the NHS would certainly cause some people of a nationalist sentiment in the north to reconsider. Its one thing to say something, but when it affects your job and your money its another

jill_valentine

Oooh, that's a slippery slope to Godwin-town...

Yeah - Heart says yes, head says no...

Aside from a hazy notion that gosh, wouldn't it be lovely to have Ireland for the Irish - however that is defined - has there been any rational argument for a united Ireland? Or are we unpatriotic for asking so?

"One of the great attractions of patriotism — it fulfills our worst wishes. In the person of our nation we are able, vicariously, to bully and cheat. Bully and cheat, what’s more, with a feeling that we are profoundly virtuous.”

Would it make life better?

kreuzberger

Deleted User wrote: »

According to an American (not sure of his profession - if any)

ah well then..there you go

all countries that are on continental shelfs are at risk of sliding into the neighbouring ocean.

and most of them have wmds and want to destroy the american way of life too

kreuzberger

kreuzberger wrote: »

somehow i couldnt imagine the germans sounding so afraid of unification despite facing much bigger economic and hurdles and tring to integrate an economy that was 100% public sector. But then again that was a civilised and cultured country .

Big differences,

• The country was divided between victors after a war!
• Both countries wanted unification
• The populations of both countries wanted unification
• West Germany was very wealthy - huge savings available.
• the east had about 20% of the population

Even so it caused Germany many lean years as the costs were so huge, creating new jobs replacing an entire infrastructure etc

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Right now just over 50% want a united Ireland and 37% say no.

Not exactly a united response!

Looks like the yes vote is slipping a bit
yes 47% no 39%

Rb

Dudess wrote: »

Any abusive PM's, please report them.

Ah sure being called a West Brit is nothing. I don't particularly care how "Irish" people think I am. I just hope the same people who are touting "OIreland for the OIrish" will go and vote no in the Lisbon Treaty. Them voting yes would be, well, quite hilarious.

I'm curious to know what he'd have pm'd me if he'd known I'm a COI Protestant (not practising however) though, that would have been funny. More ignorant drivel I'd imagine.

Dudess wrote:

Well it causes concern because some view it as an example of "tyranny of the majority": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
Not without cause imo.

Yeah but sure that's life and democracy, they're welcome to move out of the North and into the Republic if they're so opposed to it and are living a horrible life up there.

Rather than trying to "Unite" Ireland, why not move all those considering themselves "Irish" out of the North and into the republic? Sure, there may be a lot of them, but there seems to be soo many people who, at least on the internet, are soo passionate about the cause, I'm sure they'd be willing to let a few sleep in their living rooms etc until they find accomodation?

kreuzberger

jill_valentine wrote: »

Oooh, that's a slippery slope to Godwin-town...

Yeah - Heart says yes, head says no...

Aside from a hazy notion that gosh, wouldn't it be lovely to have Ireland for the Irish - however that is defined - has there been any rational argument for a united Ireland? Or are we unpatriotic for asking so?



Would it make life better?

ensuring an end to conflict on the island would certainly make life better for us all . One economy instead of two would make life better for us all .
Having our national rights to sovereignty respected , having our democratic rights as citizens properly enshrined and defended as oposed to being subject to the realities of accomodating foreign rule on the island would be better for us all . What if the effort , expense , time and resources spent on persuing national self determination , and cracking down and suppressing those persuing it , had instead been spent upon building an actual nation in its own right ? What if secular national sovereignty as opposed to church obedience had been central to our politics for the past century ? How could one and a half million extra citizens and more national territory be anything other than positive for a nation that was completely decimated by artifical starvation , conflcit , poverty , penal laws and discrimination ? what better excuse and impetus for national secularism than the necessity for national cohesion ?

We can easily fund our nation by simply asserting our ownership of our national resources , empowering our citizens to the right to their nation . It would require a fundamental change from gombeenism to dignity but it appears to me thats a big step to ask a nation with historically low self expectations and ingrained servility to take . But finding the strength , assuredness and dignity to take it and change things would be good for us all . Highly beneficial .

rb_ie

rb_ie wrote: »

Yeah but sure that's life and democracy, they're welcome to move out of the North and into the Republic if they're so opposed to it and are living a horrible life up there.

Rather than trying to "Unite" Ireland, why not move all those considering themselves "Irish" out of the North and into the republic? Sure, there may be a lot of them, but there seems to be soo many people who, at least on the internet, are soo passionate about the cause, I'm sure they'd be willing to let a few sleep in their living rooms etc until they find accomodation?

If the "housing bubble" thread is anything to go by there's more than enough spare housing to go round.

AckwelFoley

holy shoite!!!!

i asked a question.. 16 pages in a few hours!!!!!

can ofworms? ANYONE??

im drunk and ive a woman infront of me wanting snyper love.... so the peace in the north takes a back seat for the next .. 90 seconds.. or maybe 3 mins if shes lucky..

k thanks bye.

kreuzberger

rb_ie wrote: »

Ah sure being called a West Brit is nothing. I don't particularly care how "Irish" people think I am. I just hope the same people who are touting "OIreland for the OIrish" will go and vote no in the Lisbon Treaty. Them voting yes would be, well, quite hilarious.

Id imagine most of them , if not all would vote no . I also find your use of the term "Oireland for the Oirish" quite offensive . Why on earth do you need to adopt some stage music hall accent parody to describe your fellow citizens who believe another country helping itself to part of theirs is fundamnetally undemocratic and wrong ? would you like people to mock you with old chap , old bean etc for your pro British outlook ?

I'm curious to know what he'd have pm'd me if he'd known I'm a COI Protestant (not practising however) though, that would have been funny. More ignorant drivel I'd imagine.

Your religious background is irrelevant to me and id presume to many others .

Yeah but sure that's life and democracy,

its not democracy . Its a result of Britian refusing to recognise democracy on the island and instead engaging in a gerrymander .

they're welcome to move out of the North and into the Republic if they're so opposed to it and are living a horrible life up there.

Rather than trying to "Unite" Ireland, why not move all those considering themselves "Irish" out of the North and into the republic? Sure, there may be a lot of them, but there seems to be soo many people who, at least on the internet, are soo passionate about the cause, I'm sure they'd be willing to let a few sleep in their living rooms etc until they find accomodation?

what your advocating is sectarian cleansing , and indeed many thousands of Irish people have been forced to leave their homes over the decades due to political ideas like this . Many thousands of southerners did indeed let people sleep in their homes due to the actions of the British governemnt . Others had to make do in refugee camps . An actual democracy would simply not give rise to such mass expulsions of a civilian population as we witnessed in the last century.

snyper

snyper wrote: »

holy shoite!!!!

i asked a question.. 16 pages in a few hours!!!!!

can ofworms? ANYONE??

im drunk and ive a woman infront of me wanting snyper love.... so the peace in the north takes a back seat for the next .. 90 seconds.. or maybe 3 mins if shes lucky..

k thanks bye.

you provided the blue touchpaper and boards had the matches

kreuzberger

snyper wrote: »

im drunk and ive a woman infront of me wanting snyper love.... so the peace in the north takes a back seat for the next .. 90 seconds.. or maybe 3 mins if shes lucky..

.

must be a short video clip

snyper

snyper wrote: »

holy shoite!!!!

i asked a question.. 16 pages in a few hours!!!!!

can ofworms? ANYONE??

im drunk and ive a woman infront of me wanting snyper love.... so the peace in the north takes a back seat for the next .. 90 seconds.. or maybe 3 mins if shes lucky..

k thanks bye.

Thats a sign of addiction to boards.

AlmightyCushion

Well the unification of Ireland is happening to a certain degree as we speak. A lot of sporting bodies are now all Ireland. People from both sides of the border represent the island of Ireland. If I remember correctly, there is already co-operation on some infrastructure projects as well. While hardly a unified country, it's a start.

I believe there is measures being put in place to make certain markets being made all ireland as well (the electricity market for one and I think the telecommunications market as well). After this it wouldn't be so hard to imagine other markets becoming all ireland. It could eventually lead to closer links between governemnt institutions on both sides of the border (e.g. the gardai and the psni co-operating more, education/health ministers introducing similar changes and standardising things more etc.).

If Northern Ireland was handed back after all this standardisation and creation of common all ireland markets it would work a lot better. If it was to happen all at once then it would (like said above by other users) financially cripple the country as we tried to integrate all these different markets and government departments. Taking a slow but steady approach would be the most practicle way to do it.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats a sign of addiction to boards.

He's given up smoking - so needs to log on afterwads

stakey

kreuzberger wrote: »

One economy instead of two would make life better for us all.

Agreed! Perhaps we should consider re-united with the United Kingdom so? As you say one economy is better than two, three or four!

You don't seem to get it. The people who vote yes are completely bypassing the massive logistical and social changes that would need to be made to unite two different countries. That's what they are, two different countries. People in Northern Ireland live in the UK, people in the south live in the Republic. This really isn't a case of removing a few lines on maps and changing currency it's a huge task that the Republic cannot afford to take on.

If Northern Ireland has any aspirations let it be towards nationhood or more self determination within the UK. As for economic matters, Northern Ireland is doing quite well on it's own with the 7.5 billion euro investment in it's economy annually. Northern Ireland's economy is growing at twice the average rate of the United Kingdom at 3.2% and this is expected to rise.

It would be more logical economically to stay within the UK which can better weather international economic issues and local economic issues than the Republic. Uniting with the republic would mean a downturn in growth as NI would lose a huge amount of investment. Not to mention the services they enjoy up there like decent public transport, health etc would go to the dogs within years as it's incorporated into the Republic.

Why would I vote no? Because it's best for the people of the North to simply learn how to live in peace and move beyond the politics of Green vs. Orange, Catholic vs. Protestant. A vote to Unite Ireland would only serve to divide that population further.

AckwelFoley

Ok.. im done... shes asleep.

Jeez i was great.

jill_valentine

kreuzberger wrote:

. It would require a fundamental change from gombeenism to dignity but it appears to me thats a big step to ask a nation with historically low self expectations and ingrained servility to take . But finding the strength , assuredness and dignity to take it and change things would be good for us all . Highly beneficial .

Ah right. So the problem isn't just that we aren't patriotic enough, it's that Ireland just isn't as patriotic as you.

National sovereignty is lovely. It's a lovely idea. But it's less important to me than what happens, say, in the immediate aftermath of a complete policing changeover in a historically troubled region, and I don't just mean the Troubles with a capital T.

The North as it stands today isn't perfect. It's got problems, and plenty of them. But the quality of life is better than it's been for a long time, and the impact of the kind of gears-and-engines upheaval, the actual logistics of what we're talking about here would just not be justified by the end result. You could have argued that once, but not today.

Sherifu

Dyslexics of Ireland, untie!

AlmightyCushion

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Well the unification of Ireland is happening to a certain degree as we speak. A lot of sporting bodies are now all Ireland. People from both sides of the border represent the island of Ireland. If I remember correctly, there is already co-operation on some infrastructure projects as well. While hardly a unified country, it's a start.

I believe there is measures being put in place to make certain markets being made all ireland as well (the electricity market for one and I think the telecommunications market as well). After this it wouldn't be so hard to imagine other markets becoming all ireland. It could eventually lead to closer links between governemnt institutions on both sides of the border (e.g. the gardai and the psni co-operating more, education/health ministers introducing similar changes and standardising things more etc.).

If Northern Ireland was handed back after all this standardisation and creation of common all ireland markets it would work a lot better. If it was to happen all at once then it would (like said above by other users) financially cripple the country as we tried to integrate all these different markets and government departments. Taking a slow but steady approach would be the most practicle way to do it.

Tis very true, these things take time. Until the UK joins the euro (I'm amazed no one mentioned it earlier) the economics of co-operation are difficult to manage with flucturating exchange rates.

Fortunately most things are the same already, power sockets for example, it's just the economic & political & culteral differences that need to be sorted out. simple.... :rolleyes:

Rb

kreuzberger wrote: »

your posts seemed positively designed to cause offence and indeed it was yourself who first argued that Irish citizens from the occupied territory werent Irish , that Irish territory was British etc , so you cant really complain when your own outward lack of patriotism and support for British rule in your country calls your own Irishness into question . Whilst id completely disagree with anyone sending you abusive pms i also find your abusive and obscene language wholly unnecessary and indeed offensive . Its dragging down the tone of the debate , as do your accusations of support for terrorism with anyone who disagrees with you .

Tell me this.

Why should I support a United Ireland? What benefits are there for our economy in it? I don't want to hear "We'll be free of British rule yaarrr" crap, I want the direct benefits to our economy as a result of the unification of Ireland. I'm failing to see them, I'd see it as a huge drain on the economy and what with the immensely possible consequences (such as a loyalist uprising, paramilitary activity etc) it just doesn't make sense to have a "United Ireland". The costs/negatives hugely outweight the positive aspects to it (aspects which I, an average person, certainly do not care about).

Why not just let it be? If the catholics are so unhappy up there, why don't they move?

The North has not worked out well, it's a pretty huge mess, why do we need to take control of it? We don't. It's the UKs burden, they created it so let them deal with it.

And to those saying Unite the people up North first, I fully agree, however, I don't think it'll ever happen. People may say a generation will die and things will improve, but said generation is bringing up a new generation of hate filled racists, and in turn they'll bring up their own.

I don't support British Rule, per se, I think they should bear the burden that they've created, rather than handing it over the us and having us try to cope with it.

I'm glad we have our independence, given some of the policies of the British government (immigrantion/military/etc). I think people just need to "let go" of the past, accept things for how they are and be grateful for the position we're in now.

AlmightyCushion

rb_ie wrote: »

And to those saying Unite the people up North first, I fully agree, however, I don't think it'll ever happen. People may say a generation will die and things will improve, but said generation is bringing up a new generation of hate filled racists, and in turn they'll bring up their own.

True that they will raise their own but I'd say that their numbers will still dwindle. As time goes on more and more people will realise how petty and stupid it is to despise someone because of their religion or where they were born. Their parents may still think like that but how my opinions on things can vary wildly from my parents opinions on things and that would be the same for a lot of people. Like everything else it will take time but these people are a dieing breed.