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English lords still own thousands of arces in Ireland from the plantations

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24

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    #32
    DublinWriter
    Registered Users Posts: 9,556 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    The_Goose135 wrote: »
    The fact is it was not the ruler of England to give to their ancestor's and when the Republic was formed it should have been taking back for the country.
    Go forth goosey and do a little research on when the Irish Republic was formed*

    *clue - it wasn't 1916


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    #33
    brow_601
    Closed Accounts Posts: 161 ✭✭brow_601


    Sean_K wrote: »
    Anyone who wants some apparently:pac:

    http://www.moonshop.com/


    i thought the americans owned the moon?


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    #34
    thelordofcheese
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭thelordofcheese


    The_Goose135 wrote: »
    Christ you are an idiot.

    The fact is it was not the ruler of England to give to their ancestor's and when the Republic was formed it should have been taking back for the country.

    Simple as that.

    Sorry goosey, it's nowhere near as simple as that. Look at it from the land owners perspective. The land has been in their family since long before they were born, it's a much theirs as it is anyones. Why should they give it back just because it ruffles your feathers?


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    #35
    EamonnKeane
    Closed Accounts Posts: 950 ✭✭✭EamonnKeane


    I think all the land should be restored to the lineal descendent of the first person to reach Ireland in 8000 BC.


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    #36
    Trojan911
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Trojan911


    The_Goose135 wrote: »
    Now I m not a mad RA head here

    Congratulations...... but what the F**k has the RA got to do with it?


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    #37
    Gekko
    Registered Users Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Gekko


    nomorebadtown wrote: »
    as long as they're not building shopping centres and luxury apartments on it, i couldnt give a monkey's/

    +1


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    #38
    flanum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,107 ✭✭✭flanum


    wot? just read the headline!! arses?? wtf? no english ****er owns my arse!


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    #39
    SimpleSam06
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭SimpleSam06


    An Fear Aniar wrote: »
    Most Irish people, the "moghach" or serf class, had no rights at all under Gaelic law. These people actually found their lives improved under English rule at least for a time.
    Brehon law has a wide variety of social status levels, and formed the most intriciate and comprehensive legal systems of its day. It is completely wrong to say most Irish people had no rights under this system.
    Irish law recognizes a number of grades of people from unfree up to kings which are ranked within the status tract. Little space is giving to the unfree, which is reflective of the lack of dependence upon slaves as opposed to other societies, such as Ancient Rome. However, there were slaves mentioned in the laws, both male and female, and the term for a female slave, cumal, became a broader currency term. As unfree, a slave could not be a legal agent either for himself or in the case of another In addition to the wholly unfree, there are a few individuals who are semi-free. The sencléithe (hereditary serf) was bound the work the land of his master, whereas the fuidir had no independent status nor land of his own, but could at least leave as he might desire.

    There are two main ranks of commoners, the ócaire (lit. young lord) and bóaire (cow lord), although Binchy takes the ócaire to be a recent offshot of the latter who would have less property but still be a freeman. In addition are the bóaire febsa (bóaire of quality who had an honor-price of 5 séts. The highest commoner was the mruigfer (land man). Either of the last, according, Binchy, may be the "normal bóaire who appears within the law texts." The three ranks of commoners, at least according to the status tract, vary in the type of clientship they would undertake as well as the property which they would hold, although it is unclear how such would work in practice. The commoners would apparently have to cooperate in farming as they would not have enough property to own a whole plough-share or all the rights in a mill.
    As for the English lords owning land since the plantations, have it off them and be done with it. They never had any right to it and have no right now.


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    #40
    Cunny-Funt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,748 ✭✭✭Cunny-Funt


    ronbyrne2005 wrote: »
    If Ireland was a militarily powerful country in 1200-1900ad we would have done same to Britain and Europe and Afria and Asia, thats the way things were done back then before this stronger nation state era

    Agreed, however that does NOT make it right.
    Trojan911 wrote: »
    Congratulations...... but what the F**k has the RA got to do with it?

    Because these days saying anything "pro Irish" seems to automatically mean your Pro IRA, or at least thats the attitude of a lot of people. & out of fear of looking like a "RA head" people now roll their eyes when there's any talk of anything to do with Ireland in terms of those hanging issues left over from our war to gain out country back.

    It's almost like people are embarrassed that we got it back. It kinda sickens me.


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    #41
    The Sweeper
    Registered Users Posts: 10,658 ✭✭✭✭The Sweeper


    So we should take the land back eh?

    I'd like to see a proposal on this.

    What shall we do with the buildings the English lords own on their land? Shall we buy those buildings from them? Shall we simply steal those buildings? How about the improvements the English lords have done on those lands? (Forestation, drainage, fencing, roads, pathways) - how shall we reimburse them for that work? Shall we simply overlook it?

    And who shall the title change to? The government? No! Never the government! The deserving people of Ireland! Right. So how do we decide who's deserving?

    Hey - how about this - what if we simply declare that anyone paying ground rent to an English landowner automatically assumes title to the land they rent. Oh hey hold on, what about the people who've bought their land out? They had to pay for something someone else is getting for free. Oh dear.

    And worse again!! What happens if the homeowner is a NON NATIONAL?? They're getting free Irish land if we take it from the English lord and give it to them! Can they have free Irish land?

    Oh hey - what if they're BRITISH PEOPLE who own a house here? Does it matter if we're taking the land off an English landowner to give it to an English landowner?

    Oh decisions decisions...


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    #42
    Kernel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    Minesajackdaniels wrote: »
    How about the improvements the English lords have done on those lands? (Forestation, drainage, fencing, roads, pathways) - how shall we reimburse them for that work? Shall we simply overlook it?

    800 years is payment enough, who's with me!?? :pac:


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    #43
    SimpleSam06
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭SimpleSam06


    Minesajackdaniels wrote: »
    And who shall the title change to? The government? No! Never the government!
    Yes, the government, and current landowners, via eminent domain.
    Minesajackdaniels wrote: »
    The deserving people of Ireland! Right. So how do we decide who's deserving?

    Hey - how about this - what if we simply declare that anyone paying ground rent to an English landowner automatically assumes title to the land they rent.
    Sounds good.
    Minesajackdaniels wrote: »
    Oh hey hold on, what about the people who've bought their land out? They had to pay for something someone else is getting for free. Oh dear.
    Taxi drivers working in the business most of their lives lost tens of thousands of euros EACH due to deregulation. Eggs, omelette, etc.
    Minesajackdaniels wrote: »
    And worse again!! What happens if the homeowner is a NON NATIONAL??
    Most of them are living in social and affordable housing anyway, its basically government land for the next fifteen years mostly.
    Kernel wrote: »
    800 years is payment enough, who's with me!?? :pac:
    +1


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    #44
    Defenestrate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 442 ✭✭Defenestrate


    Is that you Mugabe? :confused:


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    #45
    SimpleSam06
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭SimpleSam06


    Defenestrate wrote: »
    Is that you Mugabe? :confused:

    <_<

    >_>

    Different situation anyway, you wouldn't be evicting anyone, just prying the fat little fingers of a shower of sister loving wahoos out of the country at long last, and preventing the retardation of the development of the country by said party of disinterested punks.


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    #46
    stakey
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭stakey


    And once we're finished running those English divils out of the country we'll head up to Dublin and run those other Johnny foreigners out of their 'embassies' and reclaim our land in Dublin too!!!


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    #47
    Defenestrate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 442 ✭✭Defenestrate


    And then we'll start on the Poles! ;)


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    #48
    chopperbyrne
    Registered Users Posts: 10,989 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    Don't be silly, we'll get the Poles help to rid us of the Roma first!


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    #49
    SimpleSam06
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭SimpleSam06


    stakey wrote: »
    And once we're finished running those English divils out of the country we'll head up to Dublin and run those other Johnny foreigners out of their 'embassies' and reclaim our land in Dublin too!!!
    Unlike the English landed gentry, the embassies actually server a useful purpose.


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    #50
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,297 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Defenestrate wrote: »
    And then we'll start on the Poles! ;)
    Them wooden ones, or the metal light poles as well?

    =-=

    Before the english lords had the land, the irish kings had the land, and they gained the land through wars and what not.


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    #51
    stakey
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭stakey


    Really? It's rather pointless having embassies from other European Union countries these days. They serve very little to no puprose thanks to the integration of the EU.

    But hey that leaves the UK embassy for a bit of pitch fork action! So i'm sure the usual armchair republicans will be overjoyed once we get going on this crusade.


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    #52
    Maximilian
    Legal Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 5,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Maximilian


    Kernel wrote: »
    Many people in Dublin who own their own homes have to pay ground rent, which basically goes to English landlords of old. You can buy them out, or continue paying them the rent. They must make a nice few quid out of it all the same.


    Those Ground Rents are generally never actually demanded.


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    #53
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    I'm going to squat on all their lands and reclaim it for the people of Waterford, who really are the true heirs to this Island.

    Down with English Lords and West Brits and all that sort of thing.


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    #54
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    The_Goose135 wrote: »
    but there s definately a little voice inside me that says hold the **** on mate, surely stealing all the way back doesn't mean they should be still allowed to keep it.

    What else do the little voices in your head say to you?


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    #55
    Defenestrate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 442 ✭✭Defenestrate


    the_syco wrote: »
    Them wooden ones, or the metal light poles as well?

    The ones that tark arr jaaaaarbs!


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    #56
    Kev_ps3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,604 ✭✭✭Kev_ps3


    Does anyone have any more info on this issue> Is there any link to this article? TBH im shocked about this whole thing.
    Personally I think we should take back every square inch of land that foreigners own on this island.


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    #57
    PeakOutput
    Registered Users Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    this is such a stupid thing to get pissed of about


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    #58
    thelordofcheese
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭thelordofcheese


    Kev_ps3 wrote: »
    Does anyone have any more info on this issue> Is there any link to this article? TBH im shocked about this whole thing.
    Personally I think we should take back every square inch of land that foreigners own on this island.

    Does that include land owned by people that aren't irish but also are not british, or does your radical plan only extend to 'them across the water'.


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    #59
    EamonnKeane
    Closed Accounts Posts: 950 ✭✭✭EamonnKeane


    SimpleSam06 wrote: »
    Brehon law has a wide variety of social status levels, and formed the most intriciate and comprehensive legal systems of its day.
    Really? No society could function without "intriciate and comprehensive" law. The Brehon laws were unexceptional.


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    #60
    Defenestrate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 442 ✭✭Defenestrate


    Pitchfork Paddy cares naught for fact! :pac:


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    #61
    all the stars
    Registered Users Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭all the stars


    The_Goose135 wrote: »
    Hey all,
    Just read in then Irish Mail on Sunday (reliable I know) that a group of Lords from England still own thousands of arces here in Ireland since the plantations.

    Now I m not a mad RA head here but there s definately a little voice inside me that says hold the **** on mate, surely stealing all the way back doesn't mean they should be still allowed to keep it.

    Then I guess the question is who should get it if it is taken back?

    Well, if you have something 99 years its yours - something like that anyway-

    If that starts happening everwhere, America as a country is in trouble - Native americans would be delighted to have their land back (and rightly so, hardly any land for reservations ) But wont be happening...

    Anyway - the people who own it now , own it. Get on with it- its just a bit a land!


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