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English lords still own thousands of arces in Ireland from the plantations

  • 27-04-2008 03:02PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,099
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    Hey all,
    Just read in then Irish Mail on Sunday (reliable I know) that a group of Lords from England still own thousands of arces here in Ireland since the plantations.

    Now I m not a mad RA head here but there s definately a little voice inside me that says hold the **** on mate, surely stealing all the way back doesn't mean they should be still allowed to keep it.

    Then I guess the question is who should get it if it is taken back?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,727 Sherifu
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    ...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,484 JIZZLORD
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    hmmm, the irish mail on sunday, that bastion of journalistic integrity...
    they've probably an article in the english version blasting the hatred of the irish towards the english landlords.

    one of the red tops had an article in their irish about the wind that shakes the barley saying that it was an excellent film showing rebellion against the corrupt british system, Meanwhile the uk version said the film was a racist disgrace and was anti uk. etc


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,005 Flukey
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    You've only heard this now! :confused: That is common knowledge since the plantations. There is land, and even rivers, up and down the country still owned by British Lords. Where have you been all your life?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 634 nomorebadtown
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    as long as they're not building shopping centres and luxury apartments on it, i couldnt give a monkey's/


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,368 thelordofcheese
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    Hey all,
    Just read in then Irish Mail on Sunday (reliable I know) that a group of Lords from England still own thousands of arces here in Ireland since the plantations.

    Now I m not a mad RA head here but there s definately a little voice inside me that says hold the **** on mate, surely stealing all the way back doesn't mean they should be still allowed to keep it.

    Of course they should, why should they not be allowed to keep it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,099 Johnny Bitte
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    Of course they should, why should they not be allowed to keep it?

    Because the stole it?????????



    I knew that some still had land but thousands of arces?
    I dunno, it just seems a little pointless for all those men and women to have died for the country to have independence and they still let these people to hold on to lands that were given to them by the dictator of the country.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,484 JIZZLORD
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    they were granted the land for some reason or another, back pay, loyalty etc. but you have to remember how did the former owners get this land in the first place, more than likely in the exact same feudal way


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,388 Kernel
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    Many people in Dublin who own their own homes have to pay ground rent, which basically goes to English landlords of old. You can buy them out, or continue paying them the rent. They must make a nice few quid out of it all the same.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,005 Flukey
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    JIZZLORD wrote: »
    they were granted the land for some reason or another, back pay, loyalty etc.

    Perhaps, but they were being paid with something that wasn't owned by the people giving it. Let me put it this way: If I stole some of your money, wrote a law to say it was mine, and then gave it to a friend of mine in payment for something he had done, would that be ok with you?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,368 thelordofcheese
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    Because the stole it?????????



    I knew that some still had land but thousands of arces?
    I dunno, it just seems a little pointless for all those men and women to have died for the country to have independence and they still let these people to hold on to lands that were given to them by the dictator of the country.

    Really? Those lords who are living in england and who own all this land just waltzed in here and knicked the lot of it and no-one noticed.

    What criminal masterminds they must be, real life lex luthors.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,484 JIZZLORD
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    by no means am i saying that these land grabs were correct. but irish land was never controlled by the majority of the irish public until the land reforms of parnell. Huge estates were owned by the british land owners, some absentee owners with no care of what happened with their land while some were owned by owners with a great involvement in the land and their tennants. Before these landowners got their land some of it may have belonged to norman invaders, before this by irish chieftains and kings. at any stage did the average irish man and woman own the land? No. It had been under some sort of control from an aristocracy for centuries


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,099 Johnny Bitte
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    Really? Those lords who are living in england and who own all this land just waltzed in here and knicked the lot of it and no-one noticed.

    What criminal masterminds they must be, real life lex luthors.

    Christ you are an idiot.

    The fact is it was not the ruler of England to give to their ancestor's and when the Republic was formed it should have been taking back for the country.

    Simple as that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,727 Sherifu
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    Christ you are an idiot.
    Bold Goose.

    So, how much of your land did they take Goosey?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,808 Ste.phen
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    I think jizzlord said it best.
    +1


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,808 Keano
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    Tis my field.


    *grabs pitchfork*


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,010 Insect Overlord
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    Igy wrote: »
    I think jizzlord said it best.
    +1

    Plus one more from me. OP, how much does this really impact on your everyday living? Unless you plan to launch some kind of appeal against the British aristocracy in the hope that they will give you all said land to divide among the Irish people as you see fit...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,958 RuggieBear
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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 994 Carrigart Exile
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    Christ you are an idiot.

    The fact is it was not the ruler of England to give to their ancestor's and when the Republic was formed it should have been taking back for the country.

    Simple as that.


    Isn't that what Robert Mugabe wants to do


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,893 Davidius
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    They should take it and give it back to the clans.


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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,182 AlmightyCushion
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    Christ you are an idiot.

    Play nice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,278 Rowley Birkin QC
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    Colleague of my dads sold a field for development without tracing the title fully. Ooops.

    Developer built about 5 houses, mistake was realised, big money sent off to England to settle the difference.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,494 ronbyrne2005
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    The land was here long before humans. Thinking about it owning land is a rather abstract concept. "Possesion is nine tenths of the law" is about as fair a way of determining "ownership" as anything. Should the Irish people buying and driving up land prices in poor parts of eastern europe have the land taken off them? Even if original English landowners aquired the land unethically/immorally /forcefully subsequent generations aquired a good legal title to it. Before modern "Irish" arrived on this island some other inhabitants "owned" the land. A nation's boundaries are arbitary and change over time with changes in soverignty,culture etc. If Ireland was a militarily powerful country in 1200-1900ad we would have done same to Britain and Europe and Afria and Asia, thats the way things were done back then before this stronger nation state era


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,151 Thomas_S_Hunterson
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    bigkev49 wrote: »
    Developer built about 5 houses, mistake was realised, big money sent off to England to settle the difference.
    Shoulda said nothing and squatted for the 12 years or whatever it is, and hope he wasn't found out.

    /edit...woops..the leasehold agreements might prevent the transfer of ownership though, i'm not sure how they're dealt with legally


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,893 Davidius
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    I'm taking over your land! What do you mean "you can't"? I think you'll be happy to know that I just made a law that says it's mine! Now GTFO! :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,484 JIZZLORD
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    The land was here long before humans. Thinking about it owning land is a rather abstract concept.

    I hate when people say that. it's like when land owners in scenic areas have fences damaged, gates left open etc. The owner objects and some beardy rambler makes a claim that you cant really "own" land


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,494 ronbyrne2005
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    JIZZLORD wrote: »
    I hate when people say that. it's like when land owners in scenic areas have fences damaged, gates left open etc. The owner objects and some beardy rambler makes a claim that you cant really "own" land

    Who owns the atoms that make up your body. Who owns the oxygen atoms you breathe in ? Who owns the hydrogen ,carbon ones you breathe out? Who owns the moon?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,151 Thomas_S_Hunterson
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    Who owns the moon?
    Anyone who wants some apparently:pac:

    http://www.moonshop.com/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,484 JIZZLORD
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    are you not familiar with the leasehold and freehold principles mentioned in that article from the times. land owners own the title for the land, ie they have the right to more or less do whatever the hell they want. in some countries if you have the title for land you own the rights to all the land below it until the centre of the earth (singapore i believe).

    i do believe that i own the atoms in my body though :D


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,377 An Fear Aniar
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    It's never really been clear to me how ownership was transferred to the tenants. I think they got loans through the various Land Acts and then repaid them by "annuities" - which Dev then repudiated. Hee hee!

    Well, if there had been no Norman Conquest, land ownership would still have followed the same pattern - the only difference being the ethnicity of the landlords.

    Most Irish people, the "moghach" or serf class, had no rights at all under Gaelic law. These people actually found their lives improved under English rule at least for a time.

    It's the same old story of the ruling elite living off everybody else, the only difference was whether they were Irish or English.



    .


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