Iron Crosses 2nd Class 1870, 1914 & 1939

danpatjoe

Thanks arnhem!

How many makers?... too many!

Since approx. 80% of 1939 EK2's were unmarked, some crosses makers will never be identified. Many early crosses were made by many companies who did not receive licenses to produce EK's after production methods and materials were standardised. For example, all the schinkel-form crosses (same small size as the 1914 EK) were of early manufacture. Other firms lost their license to produce crosses before the marking system was introduced, so these examples cannot be identified.

To confuse things further, there were two makers codes being used simultaneously.
There was the Präsidialkanzlei "Lieferant" number used for officially awarded crosses (from 1944 onwards all crosses supplied to the Präsidialkanzlei were required to have this number).
Then there was the LDO number which was used for crosses that were supplied to the retail trade. It was allowed for soldiers who had been issued this award to purchase additional examples at their own expense.

There are first class crosses that have maker marks that are not found on second class examples (or have not been found yet - OR they may not have marked their second class crosses.... )

Here is a list of what I believe are the known makers of EKs:
(There are the Präsidialkanzlei codes only.
The number is the firms PKZ code)

1 Deschler & Sohn Munchen
2 C.E. Junker Berlin
3 Wilheim Deumer Ludenscheld
4 Steinhauer & Luck Ludenscheld
5 Hermann Wernstein Jena-Lobstedt
6 Fritz Zimmermann Stuttgart
7 Paul Meybauer Berlin
8 Ferdinand Hoffstadter Bonn a. Rhein
9 Liefergsmeinschaft Scmuckhandwerker Pforzheim
10 Foerster & Barth Pforzheim
11 Grossmann & Co. Wien
12 Frank & Reif Stuttgart-Zuffenhausen
13 Gustav Brehmer Markneukirchen/Sa
14 L. Chr. Lauer Nurnberg-W
15 Friedrich Orth Wien
16 Alols Rettenmaler Scwablsch-Gmund
19 E. Ferd Weidmann Frankfurt/Main
20 C.F. Zimmermann Pforzheim
21 Gebr. Godet & Co. Berlin
22 Boerger & Co. Berlin
23 Arbeitsgemeinschaft fur Heereshedarf darf In der Graveur-u. Ziseleurinnung
24 Arbeitsgemeinschaft der Hanauer Plaket-ten-hersteller
25 Arbeitsgemeinschaft der Graveur-Gold-und Silberschemiede-Innungen
26 B. H. Mayer's Kunst-prageanstalt Pforzheim
27 Anton Schenkl's Nachf. Wien
29 Hauptmunzamt Berlin
30 Hauptmunzamt Wien
33 Friedrich Linden Ludenscheld
35 F.W. Assmann & Sohn Ludenscheld
36 Bury & Leonhard Hanau a. M
37 Ad. Baumeister Ludenscheld
39 Rudolf Berge Gablonz a.d.N.
40 Berg & Nolte Ludenscheld
43 Julius Bauer Sohne Zella Mehlisi/Thur.
44 Jakob Bengel Idar/Oberdonau
45 Franz Jungwirth Wien
46 Hans Doppler Wels/Oberdonau
47 Erhard & Sohne A.G. Schwabisch Gmund
49 Josef Feix Sohne Gablonz a.d.N.
50 Karl Gschiermeister Wien
52 Gottlieb & Wagner Ldar/Oberstein
55 J.E. Hammer & Sohne Geringswalde
56 Robert Hauschild Pforzheim
57 Karl Hensler Pforzheim
60 Katz & Deyhle Pforzheim
61 Rudolf A. Karneth & Sohne Gablonz a.N.
62 Kerbach & Oesterhelt Dresden
63 Franz Klast & Sohne Gablonz a.N.
65 Klein & Quenzer A.G. Idar/Oberstein
66 Freidrich Keller Oberstein
70 Lind & Meyrer Oberstein a.d.N.
72 Franz Lipp Pforzheim
73 Frank Manert Gablonz a.N.
75 (Unknown)
76 Ernst L. Muller Pforzheim
77 Bayer. Hauptmunzamt Munchen
78 Gustav Miksch Gablonz/N.
79 (Unknown)
83 Emll Peukert Gablonz a.N.
84 Carl Poellath Schrobenhausen
85 Julius Pletsch Gablonz/N.
86 Paulmann & Crone Ludenscheid
88 Werner Redo Saarlautern
89 Rudolf Richter Schlag 244 b. Gablonz
90 Aug. F. Richter K.G. Hamburg
92 Josef Rucker & Sohn Gablonz a.d.N.
93 Richard Simm & Sohne Gablonz a.d.N.
95 Adolf Scholze Grunwald a.d.N.
96 (Unknown)
97 (Unknown)
98 Rudolf Souval Wien
100 Rudolf Wachtler & Lange Mittweida
101 Rudolf Tam Gablonz a.d.N.
102 Philipp Turks Ww. Wien
103 Aug. G. Tam Gablonz a.d.N.
106 Bruder Schneider A.G. Wien
107 Carl Wild Hamburg
109 Walter & Hentein Gablonz a.d.N.
113 Hermann Aurich Dresden
114 Ludwig Bertsch Karlsruhe
117 Hugo Lang Wiesenthal a.N.
118 August Menzs & Sohn Wien
119 (Unknown)
120 Franz Petzl Wien
122 JJ. Stahl Strassburg
123 Beck, Hassinger & Co. Strassburg
125 Eugen Gauss Pforzheim
126 Eduard Hahn Oberstein/Nahe
127 Moritz Hausch A.G. Pforzheim
128 S. Jablonski G.m.b.H. Posen
131 Heinrich Wander Gablonz
132 Franz Reischauer Oberstein
133 (Unknown)
135 Julius Moser sen Oberstein
136 J.Wagner & Sohn Berlin
137 J.H. Werner Berlin
138 Julius Maurer Oberstein
139 Hymmen & Co. Ludenscheid
140 Schauerte & Hohfeld Ludenscheid
141 Sohni, Heubach & Co Oberstein
142 A.D. Schwerdt Stuttgart

There are also these makers which do not have a PKZ code:

Küst
Berliner Gold-und Silberschmeide
Arbeitsgemeinschaft für das Eiserne Kreuz
Otto Schickle
Walter Wahl


Of this list, many makers only produced First class crosses and vice-versa with Second class examples.
As you can see, collecting an example from each maker is indeed a mammoth (if not impossible) task!

Sorry for the long-winded reply!

- Dan

arnhem44

Dan cheers for that info,your a wealth of information,I never thought it to be so complex regarding codes,makers and licenses,I must say its a facinating area of collecting and one that has so much research capabilities,has it taken you long to put the ones you have together?also are any of these companies still in existence today?,again well done on the collection.

danpatjoe

arnhem44 wrote: »

...has it taken you long to put the ones you have together?also are any of these companies still in existence today?

Thanks arnhem,
I've only been collecting EK's for about 3 years now. As to whether any of the companies are still in existence today? Good question... Yes, Steinhauer & Lück are still producing medals and I think there might be one or two others but I will have to get back to you on that.

- Dan

danpatjoe

The latest addition

StudyingEK

Dan,

I paid particular attention to your post (#90) of 0750h 15/03/09 as I recently acquired a 1939 EK II with the mm 55 of J.E. Hammer & Sohne.

Some features on mine raised questions but your example appears to be consistent allaying the fear mine may have been a repro.

Of particular interest on your example - I note the 3 on the obverse is a 'flat top' whereas the 3 on the reverse appears to be a 'round top'. I've never seen or read of this before. 'Flat top' 3s appear on both sides of mine. What are your thoughts on this?

danpatjoe

StudyingEK wrote: »

Dan,

I paid particular attention to your post (#90) of 0750h 15/03/09 as I recently acquired a 1939 EK II with the mm 55 of J.E. Hammer & Sohne.

Some features on mine raised questions but your example appears to be consistent allaying the fear mine may have been a repro.

Of particular interest on your example - I note the 3 on the obverse is a 'flat top' whereas the 3 on the reverse appears to be a 'round top'. I've never seen or read of this before. 'Flat top' 3s appear on both sides of mine. What are your thoughts on this?

Hello StudyingEK,
Welcome to the addiction!

The 3 in the 1813 date on mine does have a 'flat top' but just looks like it is round because it is corroded. Below is a montage of the 1813 dates from 3 of my '55's - you can see the dates better in this image (I hope!), note that they are all the same.

This makers crosses can be found with very heavy die flaws to the beading, how does yours compare? Can we see a picture or two?

StudyingEK

Dan,

What a relief! Not that I would begrudge you what would undoubtedly be a rare and potentially very valuable EK for your collection. However, if that had been a 'round top' 3 on your 1939 EK II mm 25, we would likely spend the rest of our lives trying to understand/explain/justify this anomaly. This pursuit already has enough questions to answer.

When I brought my example home and examined it under a 10X lens, the beading flaws were very evident and are identical in nature, if not location, to those visible on your images.

I will post some pictures in a few days when I return home and can generate pix with acceptable fille sizes.

danpatjoe

StudyingEK,

As far as I am aware, Hammer & Söhne only ever used one core stamp - there are no variations except for some that may show evidence of die-wear, so finding one with a major variation like a rounded 3 will be extremely unlikely!

The frames on the crosses varies hugely - some early versions have practically no die flaws at all while some late war versions show such extensive flawing that it indicates the dies must have been practically worn out. Quality control was obviously not as an important issue in the final stages of the war when EK2's were being handed out much more readily.

I'm looking forward to seeing your cross... Remember though, one is never enough!

StudyingEK

Dan,

I don't have a copy stand with proper lighting so the images of 1939 EK2 mm 55 are not the best. However, you may be able to see some of the flaws in the beading of the rim. The images have also been edited in an effort to make some of the details more visible.

As a matter of interest, Previtera quotes the dimensions of a "standard" 1939 EK2 as W & H: 44.4 mm to 44.5 mm. The dimensions of this example are W 43.85 mm, H 44.10 mm.These figures are the average of 10 readings of each dimension, taken near the mid points of the arms with a digital caliper. How do yours compare?

danpatjoe

StudyingEK wrote: »

Dan,

I don't have a copy stand with proper lighting so the images of 1939 EK2 mm 55 are not the best. However, you may be able to see some of the flaws in the beading of the rim. The images have also been edited in an effort to make some of the details more visible.

As a matter of interest, Previtera quotes the dimensions of a "standard" 1939 EK2 as W & H: 44.4 mm to 44.5 mm. The dimensions of this example are W 43.85 mm, H 44.10 mm.These figures are the average of 10 readings of each dimension, taken near the mid points of the arms with a digital caliper. How do yours compare?

StudyingEK,

That's a great looking '55' with a fine patina. It looks like a late version as it displays the heavy die flaws characteristic of this maker. Still, it's good to see it preserved so well... the paint on the core looks perfect.

As to the measurements... I can't tell you as I don't have a caliper.:(
However, the size of the 'standard' EK2 varies considerably between makers so I would not worry about the discrepancy. Mr. Previtera is more than likely using an average measurement range. (I presume this information is from his excellent publication "The Iron Time"?)

So, do you think you will you be investing in a 'brother' for your 55?!!
(If you do, have a look for a Klein & Quenzer '65', they are a common maker and easy to find, but the quality of workmanship is fantastic... you will be amazed at the differences between it and your 55!)

danpatjoe

This beauty arrived yesterday with a packet marked Walter & Heinlein '109', however, no known '109' marked crosses have yet been found, so there is nothing to compare this one to.

It has the unusual Austrian style trifold court mount ribbon.

StudyingEK

danpatjoe wrote: »

StudyingEK,

That's a great looking '55' with a fine patina. It looks like a late version as it displays the heavy die flaws characteristic of this maker. Still, it's good to see it preserved so well... the paint on the core looks perfect.

As to the measurements... I can't tell you as I don't have a caliper.:(
However, the size of the 'standard' EK2 varies considerably between makers so I would not worry about the discrepancy. Mr. Previtera is more than likely using an average measurement range. (I presume this information is from his excellent publication "The Iron Time"?)

So, do you think you will you be investing in a 'brother' for your 55?!!
(If you do, have a look for a Klein & Quenzer '65', they are a common maker and easy to find, but the quality of workmanship is fantastic... you
will be amazed at the differences between it and your 55!)

Dan,

Yes this 55, (see image), is in excellent condition. Almost certainly, it was never worn. In fact, the ribbon top has a couple of stitches which prevent it from being separated from the cross. I was wondering if these might have originated at the factory. If this is the case, I don't want to remove them.

Confirming - the dimensions quoted were from "The Iron Time".

I may not be in a hurry to find a 'brother' for my 55 but I'm definitely looking for some 'cousins'; currently in the process of acquiring an example from another maker. I appreciate your comments re the K&Q 65s and will bear this in mind.

danpatjoe

StudyingEK wrote: »

......In fact, the ribbon top has a couple of stitches which prevent it from being separated from the cross. I was wondering if these might have originated at the factory. If this is the case, I don't want to remove them....

StudyingEK,

No these stitches were not done at the factory, but may have been added by the recipient (do the stitches glow under black light?).
EK2's were issued wrapped in tissue paper and in a packet along with a folded length of ribbon (11" approx) which was not on the cross, and I believe in some cases, a safety pin.
The medals themselves were not worn (except maybe for a photograph after presentation), instead the ribbon was worn on the buttonhole of the tunic.

- Dan

StudyingEK

Dan,

Thanks for your input. One of the first things I did was check the ribbon under a UV light - no fluoresence so perhaps there's at least a possibility that the stitch might be period.

danpatjoe

Here's my latest addition... an unmarked Paulmann & Crone '86'.

This maker was not known to have marked his crosses as there has not been one found as yet.
Quite a few of these crosses have turned up from direct Vet purchases with issue envelopes marked Paulmann & Crone, Stuttgart, so it would be reasonable to assume that this is indeed the maker.

They are quite an ugly cross with very distinctive date lettering and obvious flaws. They are found with both magnetic and non-magnetic cores, this one being non-magnetic.

Morlar

Very useful reference information.

StudyingEK

Hi Dan,

Some time ago, (27 March 2008), you mentioned that Anton Schenkl was one of your favorite makers. Thought you might be interested in seeing a recently acquired example.

danpatjoe

StudyingEK wrote: »

Hi Dan,

Some time ago, (27 March 2008), you mentioned that Anton Schenkl was one of your favorite makers. Thought you might be interested in seeing a recently acquired example.

That is an absolute beauty!!
Congratulations.. that's the best conditioned '27' I have seen in a long, long time. They are indeed one of my favourite makers and quite easy to identify with a very distinctive swastika and 'narrow' numerals on the dates.

As a matter of interest, this maker was known as Anton Schenkls Nachfolger, which roughly translates as Anton Schenkls successor. There are EK2 packets with the company name of 'Maria Schenkl, Wien', printed on them... Many (myself included) think that this Maria is more than likely Anton's 'successor'.

Again, congrats on a fantastic find!

- Dan

StudyingEK

Hello Dan,

Thanks for the comments. Yes, I'm glad to have that 27 in my collection.

Have experienced problems in sending text and images to you. Don't know what's happening.

chem

Friend of mine in Germany has a knights cross.

Here is a pic he sent of it to me. Ill ask for him to send a better one. This is the text he sent with it.

Dieser Orden ist das beste Stück in meiner Sammlung. Ritterkreuz, Herstelller Berlin Juncker mit Expertise 8000,- bis 10000,-Euro wert.

This medal is the best piece in my collection. Knight cross, Herstelller Berlin Juncker with expert's assessment 8000, - to 10000, - euros worth.

Morlar

If it's possible I would love to see bigger & clearer pictures of that one. Does your friend have any information on the person it was awarded to ?

citizen_p

dammm it looks almost new.... from what i can see in the picture
10,000 is a bit over budget though
i think ill stick within my budget for now...

danpatjoe

I'm really looking forward to seeing some good clear shots of this cross!...

chem

Working on it lads. Asked for pics up close and copy of the cert etc... Hope to have them soon.
Lads cant get firefox to copy the image any bigger!! Its driving me mad here!!

Ok got it to work folks. But image is still abit fuzzy!!

danpatjoe

chem wrote: »

...Ok got it to work folks. But image is still abit fuzzy!!

Oh dear... I have a bad, bad feeling about this RK... :eek:
It is definitely not a Juncker. No genuine wartime RK that I know of had those extreme rounded inner corners. Even from the blurry picture, it looks very like the infamous "Rounder" fake, if not, then one of the numerous Eastern European fakes.

I'd love to know who the "expertise" is from, and if they offer a lifetime guarantee of originality.

Here is an image showing a genuine L/12 marked Juncker RK on the left and the cross in question on the right:

danpatjoe

Added another Fritz Zimmermann marked cross to the collection recently:

danpatjoe

...and this almost mint condition unmarked Wächtler & Lange.

danpatjoe

Here's one I have been after for a long time!

This unmarked cross, known as the übergröße or oversize EK2 is one of the very rare versions. These are so called because of their large size (47.5mm as opposed to the 'standard' 1939 EK at 44/45mm). Some believe that these were originally made as 'prototype' Knights Crosses as they are practically as big as the RK.
Being so rare and collectable, they command prices 5+ times as much as a regular marked EK2.

I'm delighted with this one and love the heavy patina. I have included a picture showing it alongside a regular '65' marked EK2 and the rare smaller 'Schinkelform' one piece for comparison on sizes.

Dr Strange

Nice "übergröße", dan!

That must have cost you a bit I imagine.

EDIT:

Being so rare and collectable, they command prices 5+ times as much as a regular marked EK2

Only saw that now. That's why I thought it may have cost ya a bit.

danpatjoe

Here's another that I've been after for a long time. An unmarked Juncker cross (I haven't yet seen a genuine wartime marked '2' Juncker but L/12 marked examples are known to exist).

At first glance these are almost identicle to Wächtler & Lange '100' crosses, but on careful inspection, Junckers display this very distinctive 'crosshatching' on the beading at the corners.

Morlar

With Danpatjoe's agreement I have put his EK2 collection into a gallery, using his pictures (photoshopped a bit to even out the backgrounds)

Here it is if anyone would like to check it out :

http://www.militaria-archive.com/Medals.html

click on the Iron Cross at the top to open the pictures ( http://www.militaria-archive.com/ek2/index.html )

If any other collectors on here would like their militaria collection displayed similairly online (or as a 'Private Collection') let me know as I would love to expand the site to include other peoples items too.

danpatjoe

Another 1914 cross, this one marked S-W from the firm of Sy und Wagner.

danpatjoe

And another 1914, this one from the manufacturer WILM of Berlin.

citizen_p

EK2 award ceremony
same as a set posted in ek1 thread. came from same source i think.glue on back.... seem to have been in same album

^^ camera in man aboves hands ^^

good shot of fresh EK2s on men in background

notice packet of EK2s and the gloves???? of the man awarding them

danpatjoe

I haven't added anything to this thread lately, so here's an unusual one to bring it back up - A rare early Godet first frame version.
This has the standard Godet core but a totally different frame type.



And below, the standard Godet - note identical core but higher bead count on standard frame.

danpatjoe

Another from my favourite maker - Deschler & Söhne.
This one is clearly stamped and came complete with original marked packet of issue, full length of ribbon and tissue paper.

danpatjoe

Here's my first purchase of the year... another übergröße (oversize) EK2.

Some fool scratched the paint on the reverse, but otherwise a fine example of this rare variation.
Note the filed inner corners around the swastika - a trait commonly found on these crosses.

danpatjoe

Another unmarked and difficult to find, Schickle cross.
As this one has almost all of it's paint intact, except for one tiny spot on the reverse, it's difficult to tell if it has a brass plated core as the previouly posted example.

danpatjoe

I had completely forgotten about this thread, and because of this I have many more interesting (to me anyway!) crosses to add. So now, to bring it back from the dead.... with something that is technically 'off topic'....

I have finally managed to add to my collection, an award period, A-type 1870 EK2. It has a non-combatant ribbon, which is a lot harder to find (unfortunately, I cannot be certain that the ribbon is original to the cross). I have been looking for one of these for ages, and sadly, it's a collecting field that is awash with some very convincing fakes.

This cross (unmarked, as it should be), from an unknown maker, has some typical double-cast lines showing over the W and the date on the obverse of the sand cast core, and is smaller in size than it's 1914 counterpart, measuring 40.52 x 40.46mm. It weighs 16.2grams.

I am really happy to have landed this beauty.

Dr Strange

Congrats DanPatJoe! What a beaut!

BlackEdelweiss

Hi Danpatjoe,
This is my first cross, I got it online a few weeks ago. I was wondering if you could tell me anything about it or even if you think it is real or a fake.
Cheers,
J.

danpatjoe

Hi BlackEdelweiss,

Congratulations on your first EK2, and it is indeed a fine original example.
Its' maker is Fritz Zimmermann of Stuttgart - PKz No. 6.

Yours is an earlier core version (these examples have not been found displaying a maker mark). It is known as the 'thin date' core. Here is an example like yours (on the right) along with another Zimmermann cross which is stamped and has the later core. Unfortunately, I no longer have my example (pictured), as I sold it to help finance another purchase. I've regretted it ever since and still have not found a replacement! They are not the easiest cross to find (not super rare, but uncommon).

Do you think you will be getting another cross to keep it company?!

Regards - Dan

BlackEdelweiss

Thanks for the quick and very detailed response, it is nice to know that it is a genuine cross. I would love to get another cross so I could compare them to each other, it is difficult to understand minute differences by just reading about them. Unfortunately my finances wont allow for any more purchases for a while, I had been waiting for a long time to be able to get that one. It does seem like a very interesting area to specialize in and this thread is invaluable to anyone new like myself and I look forward to posting a picture or two of my next purchase whenever it may be.

BlackEdelweiss

Dan,
I have talked myself into buying another cross and was wondering if you could recommend anywhere online to buy one. I could go to the same guy I got my first cross from but I wouldent mind checking out a bit of the competition I just dont want to get stung with a fake from another site. I am not looking for anything fancy, just a simple unmarked cross for a relatively low price, I just want something to do a bit of comparison with.

danpatjoe

BlackEdelweiss,

You've just stepped over the top of a very slippery slope!
I remember receiving my first EK2 (Imperial), and then getting the strong urge to purchase a WW2 version 'just for comparison purposes'.... and now I'm at 80+ crosses!!!:D

Unfortunately, I don't have any for sale at the moment, but here are a few sites I have purchased crosses from without any problems.

Paul Hogle at Lakesidetrader has recently purchased a very large collection of quality EK's, and is a very trustworthy dealer -
http://www.lakesidetrader.com/Ironcross.html#2nd%20Class%20Iron%20Crosses

Klaus Butschek is another dealer who I have used and find to be pretty good.
http://klaus-butschek.com/index.php?sid=61c65128e9d8d3f2a5741e5e2a8e2fdf&cl=alist&cnid=f5e46ebf8a4901a08.26593501

or Marc at Militaria Sales sometimes has some nice EK's.
http://winkel.militariasales.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=30_31

If you are not already a member of the Wehrmacht Awards forum, you could always joinup and use their estand. It usually has quite a high turn over of sales and EK's can regularly be found a relatively good prices. You do not need to pay the $25 membership fee in order to use the estand.
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=45

Hope this helps. If you have any doubts about a purchase, post some pictures here and hopefully one of us will be able to help you out.

Best of luck!
Regards - Dan

BlackEdelweiss

Hi Dan, thanks for those links, I will check them out later. You are right about the very slippery slope, I sat up for ages last night looking for a good reference book to help me. The Gordon Williamson Iron Cross 1939 book seems to be the most sought after but at €450 I think it is out of my range. I saw another book, The Iron Time by Stephen Previteria for £66 which was as cheap as I could find it. Would you recommend this book as a reference for future purchases or should I just buy a few EK's and get to know them that way. It will be a while before I can afford these few but I can stretch to either 1 more or the book for now.

danpatjoe

Dang! I had typed a response to this yesterday and my computer crashed as I was submitting it.

I have both of the books you mention, and both are interesting and informative reads.

Gordon's book has been long out of print and as the printing plates had been accidentally destroyed, there will never be a reprint. This is why it commands such high prices, but €450 is absolutely crazy! I paid €100 for my copy a few years ago.
It is a good book but is a little dated by now. The RK section has a few fakes appearing that have been since exposed. As for a reference for 2nd class 1939 crosses, it is probably one of the best, but be aware, it does NOT show an example of each maker. Also, the photographs are on the small side and B&W except for a few colour plates in the DK & RK sections.

Stephen's 'Iron Time' is in it's second print run and has been updated. It is a very lavish production detailing the history of the Iron Cross from 1813 - 1957. It is full of beautiful, large colour pictures and shows some very rare and desirable crosses. As to 1939 2nd class crosses, it too does not have many examples shown and would not really be the most helpful to a novice collector in this area.

If you can wait, there will be a book coming out next year dealing exclusively with 1939 Iron Cross 2nd class. Produced by B&D publishing and written by George Stimson & Dietrich Maerz, it promises to become the 'bible' of collectors in this area.
I have their book on 1st class crosses and it indeed is the most detailed and informative I have seen to date. Each makers characteristics are explored in minute detail, and variant forms of each are pictured with explanations of the differences. Well worth the money, so I'm really looking forward to the 2nd class version.
See:
http://s276159374.e-shop.info/shop/article_BD-003R/The-Iron-Cross-1.-Class.html?shop_param=cid%3D2%26aid%3DBD-003R%26

Anyhow, if you do decide to invest in a new cross in the meantime, be sure to let us see any potential purchases first!

Regards - Dan

BlackEdelweiss

Hi Dan,
I might wait for the new book, I am not in that much a rush with it. I'm sure there are plenty of websites that can give me a bit of basic info for now. I was thinking of buying this cross from Klaus Butschek.I thought it had a distinctive shape to the top of the "3" compared to others I have been looking at. Is this a bad thing or does it mean anything? I thought it might be a detail from a particular maker. I have it reserved at €70, what do you think?


http://klaus-butschek.com/index.php?sid=b2d5a7c4cd3307d5e2776939c5bd366b&cl=details&cnid=f5e46ebf8a4901a08.26593501&anid=bp94ce01bdcd84399.59718109&pgNr=1

danpatjoe

Hi,

It's a good looking cross, and I believe it's a Paul Meybauer of Berlin. (PKZ No. 7 or LDO No. L/13). I reckon €70 is a good price for it.

When you receive it can you post some clearer pictures of it, as Meybauer cores were sometimes used by the makers 'Arbeitsgemeinschaft für Heeresbedarf darf In der Graveur-u. Ziseleurinnung' (PKZ No. 23).
So until I see clear shots of the beading, I cannot say for definite which maker it is. However, I am leaning towards it being a 'full' Meybauer. See post number six in this thread (a '7' marked Meybauer), it has the same filed edge of the 3 in the 1813 date.

Looking forward to seeing it!
Regards - Dan

danpatjoe

Here's another recent addition - a rare and hard to find cross, it was formerly called an 'intermixed' or 'halb' Schinkel. It has been said to be attributed to a particular 1914 maker, but it's identity is still unknown. This cross is now deemed to be a 'full' Schinkel, ie. made from left over 1914 parts.