Iron Crosses 2nd Class 1870, 1914 & 1939

Jagdtiger

I believe that Iron Cross was instituted 200yrs ago a few days ago... if only I had the money to buy an 1813 before the bicentenary as was the plan

danpatjoe

Jagdtiger wrote: »

I believe that Iron Cross was instituted 200yrs ago a few days ago... if only I had the money to buy an 1813 before the bicentenary as was the plan

Yes indeed, the 10th of March.
I know the feeling, but finding the €2K+ needed for an 1813 EK2 is beyond me too.
I can still dream though! :rolleyes:

Sith66

Hello there danpatjoe.
I am an avid reader of your past posts, a great source of information. Thanks for that. Have you ever considered putting out a book or even fanzine on the subject? I am sure you very well could.
I am a new member of boards.ie, and this is my first post.
I too have caught the collector bug when it comes to EK's especially TR EKII's. I have about 25 at the moment and about 90% are marked.
I am trying to amass a collection and looking for maker marked examples primarily. I do like all the variants be they round threes, Shinkle form, and the Uber grosse etc but just can't really justify the cost. Even regular EK's are quite costly when you get down to it and I dread to think what sort of money I already have invested in the collection I have.
I would like to ask a question specifically about a post you had several years ago back in Dec 10.
You were describing a "bevelled edge" round three ekII. Now I understand bevelled but I cannot see exactly what you mean by it with the supplied pictures. Would you need to see the cross side on to notice or at a slight angle to see the bevel? just wondering if the is there any chance you still have the cross and if so perhaps you would be able to post a few more pictures that would show exactly where you are speaking of?
Hope you are able to help, and thanks in advance.

danpatjoe

Hello and welcome to the forum, it is good to see another EK nut here!

Thank you for the kind words, but there will be no book - there are enough books out there already and written by those who are infinitely more informed on the subject than I.
BTW, feel free to add your crosses to this thread, I would be glad to see them.

As to the 'beveled Round 3', alas it is no longer in my collection, but it is easy to show how it got this moniker. I have marked the bevelled areas in red in the following picture, so you will know what to look for.

I hope this helps. I'm looking forward to seeing all of those crosses!!

Regards - Dan

Sith66

Hi there Dan
Thank you for the attached image. I did think that the areas you marked were what was being described, now I am in absolutely no doubt. So that said how rare do you imagine these type of bevelled crosses are? Any ideas.
I will attempt to post some images of my crosses when I get a chance to get them out of storage. I do have a few photos of the grouping when I took them all out.
Hope this will satiate you for the time being until I go through and individually photograph them in better light conditions etc.
Once again thanks for the clarification.
One other question Dan, do you have any spares or doubles of crosses that you are willing to off load/sell?
Please don't be offended by my asking.
Cheers.

Matt

Sith66

Hey Dan
I think I have sorted something out for images, not sure though.

Let me know if it works.
Cheers.
Matt

Sith66

[IMG]http://[/img]

danpatjoe

Sith66 wrote: »

Hey Dan
I think I have sorted something out for images, not sure though.

Let me know if it works.
Cheers.
Matt

Hi Matt,

No pictures showing. Maybe you could try an external hosting site and paste the links here.

Unfortunately, I have had to sell most of my collection already, and have only a select few left, so it would be safe to say that you have more crosses than I do at the moment.

Regards - Dan

Gunnerside

Hi folks,
Just thought I'd post up a few pictures of my newly-acquired WW2 EK2 made by Fritz Zimmermann of Stuttgart.It doesn't have a maker's mark but it's apparently quite an early example.I must say a huge thank you to Dan for helping me buy this lovely example as he gave me some fantastic expert advice and stopped this complete novice from buying a lemon!



Cheers

Dave

danpatjoe

I'm glad I could be of some help Dave.
You have yourself a very fine example of an Fritz Zimmermann (harder to find early core version). Now you just need a few more to keep it company!

danpatjoe

Here's two I don't believe I have shown before.
They are both Steinhauer & Lück crosses in the 1957 style (de-nazified - the swastika has been replaced with oakleaves - therefore legal for veterans to wear).
These are early(ish) '57 versions and are good three piece construction with magnetic cores. The later versions lack quality and are more akin to cheap costume jewellery than to the original high quality awards.

The Dragon

One of the best collections of EK's on the net and a very informative read.

Thank you for posting.

ironfly

Hi guys, this is an iron cross I acquired at a knock down price i know it has seen better days, as I have to admit I know nothing or very little about these matters, I don't if it is real or fake, so here goes.
first it has no manufactures mark, i think it is made in three pieces as there is a very faint seam around the edges, and I think the center piece with the swastika is iron as it is showing some signs of rust also the center rattles a little when it is shook, any help would be appreciated.

Sorry guy image is in the next posting. many thanks

ironfly

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/7964/sam0463k.jpg

danpatjoe

Hello ironfly and welcome to the forum.

Firstly, from what I can tell from your photo, you have a good, original, if somewhat worn, iron cross.

I would need to see straight on, clear pictures of both the front and back to be able to help identify the maker, but from what I can see for now, it looks like it uses Steinhauer & Lück frames.
Many companies used these style frames (they would be considered the 'standard' frame), so hopefully with more pictures we might be able to narrow down the list.

Regards - Dan

ironfly

imageshack.us/a/img20/7905/sam0492u.jpg

imageshack.us/a/img39/2547/sam0493r.JPG


imageshack.us/a/img802/4949/sam0490j.jpg

Thanks danpatjoe, few more pics, very grateful for your expertise and happy to know I did not purchase a dud as this is the first medal that I ever purchased, I do like iron crosses and hope buy one or two more, again thanks for the help.

danpatjoe

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7905/sam0492u.jpg

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/0493/sam0493r.jpg

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/4949/sam0490j.jpg

Hello,
The images have not shown so I have re-coded them... hopefully this will work and I will have a look........

danpatjoe

The second image is missing but the others are showing. I will post them here too..







There is something VERY unusual about this cross... Are you certain that the images shown are of the same cross?

The frame on the obverse is completely different to the one on the reverse.
Notice the 'cross-hatching' at the centre corners of the beading on the reverse - this feature is only found on crosses by a couple of makers,
while the obverse does not show this feature at all. Even the wear seems inconsistent - the obverse is extremely worn while the reverse is far less so.

From what I can see in the two pictures provided, the obverse frame is an Steinhauer & Lück style,
while the reverse looks to match the second Anton Schenkl's Nachfolger frame type (cross-hatched corners).
The core is as yet, a mystery to me.

I have never encountered this type of discrepancy before, unless the cross is a post-war assembly of differing parts.

I am intrigued...

ironfly

Hi Dan, first of all thanks for all the effort you are putting into identifying this cross and your patients as I am both very new to collecting crosses and even newer to uploading photos onto the net..........and yes the photos are both of the same cross......as for the core it is magnetic and will stick to a magnet! Tomorrow I will take some more photos perhaps under a different light, maybe it will help solve this little mystery........again many thanks for your help.

ironfly

http://imageshack.us/a/img59/4579/sam0502u.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img41/1413/sam0500l.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img703/3096/sam0499l.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img825/6131/sam0501c.jpg

Hi Dan,hopefully these pics will give you a better idea as to the history of this cross.

danpatjoe

ironfly wrote: »

http://imageshack.us/a/img59/4579/sam0502u.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img41/1413/sam0500l.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img703/3096/sam0499l.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img825/6131/sam0501c.jpg

Hi Dan,hopefully these pics will give you a better idea as to the history of this cross.

Thanks for the extra shots, they are better, but would it be possible to get some straight on images (similar to the ones I have posted earlier in this thread). These angled photographs look nice but to identify makers we need to be able to see all of the beading and date details clearly.

This is a very unusual and interesting cross....

ironfly

http://imageshack.us/a/img571/5816/sam0504d.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img834/3992/sam0505bz.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img832/7499/sam0506s.jpg

Hi Dan, fingers crossed........maybe these ones are a bit better.

danpatjoe

Thank you, they are just what I was looking for.

This has to be the most interesting cross I have seen in a long time. It is the first time I have seen two completely different frames (from different companies) used on one cross.

My best guess as to what happened is that this was possibly made by the firm of Bruder Schneider A.G., Wien (PKZ #106) - I believe they used the S&L frame type and they for some reason 'borrowed' some frame parts from Schenkl (PKZ #27) - another Vienna based company - hence the mixture.
Though, as I said, this is purely a guess.

Hold onto it, this anomaly does not happen often.

Regards - Dan

ironfly

:)Thanks Dan, nice to know that I have bought something of a rarity,make it that extra bit special....hope to buy another cross soon,maybe you will be able to give me another expert opinion.........in the meantime thanks for all your help.

ironfly

Hi Dan
I have just purchased my second iron cross 2nd class today and anxiously awaiting its arrival in the post all I can tell you at the moment it is marked with a ring number which is 138..........that I believe made by the company of Julius Maurer.....sorry I cannot post any photos at the moment, but I will as soon as it arrives....hopefully you can perhaps give me a little info on the maker.

You know I think I have been bitten by this EK collecting bug.

danpatjoe

ironfly wrote: »

Hi Dan
I have just purchased my second iron cross 2nd class today and anxiously awaiting its arrival in the post all I can tell you at the moment it is marked with a ring number which is 138..........that I believe made by the company of Julius Maurer.....sorry I cannot post any photos at the moment, but I will as soon as it arrives....hopefully you can perhaps give me a little info on the maker.

You know I think I have been bitten by this EK collecting bug.

It's a slippery slope! Looking forward to seeing it.
See post #55 in this thread for a comparison.

Regards - Dan

ironfly

http://imageshack.us/a/img541/1948/3gta.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img5/3724/9mkk.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img834/5317/gx6t.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img16/7282/kdm8.jpg


Hi Dan

Got the cross this morning so thought I would post and hopefully pick your brains for a little info, the inner cross (black part)there seems to be very little wear .......the silver part does seem a to be tarnished.......and the ribbon is non UVA..... the ring is marked with the number 138.

So any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

danpatjoe

That is a very fine cross you have landed, a textbook example from Julius Maurer, Oberstein. I especially like the patina and the fact that the paint is perfect with no rust spots showing.

Congratulations on a great addition to your collection. Perchance you may add yet another in the future?!!

Regards - Dan

ironfly

danpatjoe wrote: »

That is a very fine cross you have landed, a textbook example from Julius Maurer, Oberstein. I especially like the patina and the fact that the paint is perfect with no rust spots showing.

Congratulations on a great addition to your collection. Perchance you may add yet another in the future?!!

Regards - Dan

Thanks Dan

I must admit I was a bit nervous purchasing a second cross after the little mystery the first one caused,....but as I said in my previous post the bug has bitten....these crosses all look the same but they all seem to have their own personality and I am sure their own story....which makes collecting them.....that you own a piece of history and therefore hold a certain responsibility,

I would like to add although I am very new to all this I have read all your postings and would like to thank you for all the knowledge you are willing to share with all us newbies,..... and yes I do hope to purchase another cross in the not to distant future so you can expect me to be back for another assessment!........again many thanks for all your help.

Regards Ironfly.