Priest objecting to marriage?

Stark

CTU_Agent wrote:

That argument doesnt stand up.

The Majortiy of this country don't go to mass anymore. For a variety of reasons. Yet we have church weddings every single day. Just because you don't go to mass does not mean you're suddenly not catholic. We were all raised as catholics and therefor live our lives the christian way, which means Baptisim, communion, confirmation, regualr mass and confession (granted may not always happen) and then marriage and of course funeral.

The Church doesn't have to bend over for you if you prefer to have nothing to do with the Church except when it suits you.

CTU_Agent wrote:

Religion has lost its grip on our society and surely can no longer expect the respect of its parishioners or its commitment to regular mass.

It doesn't have to expect people to commit to regular mass, but it doesn't have to hand over its property any time those people want to dress up and play pretend Catholics either.

kelly1

Jakkass wrote: »

Just curious actually. Where does it say in the Bible that if you do not go to Church that it is a sin. I'm a churchgoer myself on a regular basis, but I'm just wondering from a Biblical point of view.

It doesn't say that in the bible and nor does it have to. Jesus gave the Church the keys of the Kingdom and the power to bind and loose. The Church decided that Catholics are bound to attend Mass every Sunday. It's their prerogative.

humanji

CTU_Agent wrote: »

Going by this logic...There are a lot of people in the Christian world commiting mortal sins everyday. Women across this country alone are consuming the contraceptive pill at higher rates than ever. As for Mass, who can honestly say in this day and age that they go to Mass every Sunday .....very few id imagine.

Religion has lost its grip on our society and surely can no longer expect the respect of its parishioners or its commitment to regular mass.

I find it funny that you have such little regard for Catholicism yet you want a Catholic ceremony. Sure, you're even planning on lying to the priest just to trick him into letting you get married in the church. Not really a good start to a Catholic marriage now, is it?

Run_to_da_hills

kelly1 wrote: »

It doesn't say that in the bible and nor does it have to. Jesus gave the Church the keys of the Kingdom and the power to bind and loose. The Church decided that Catholics are bound to attend Mass every Sunday. It's their prerogative.

There are only two religions: (1) the Truth of the Almighty, as expressed in His Word, the Holy Bible; and (2) every other belief. These two religions cannot be mixed, without disastrous results.

CTU_Agent

kelly1 wrote: »

True, very few fully accept Church teachings on morality.

I do.

You mean the Catholic Church? Why shouldn't people accept the precepts of the Church?

I commend that. But it shoudn't mean I have no right to get married under the eye of god because I don't attend Mass. It is not stipuated in the bible that 'he who does not attend mass should not be married".

No not the catholic church...Religion. Religion plays little part in peoples lives nowadays. Perhaps im generalising, apologies if I am, but I would have thought this was the case for a lot of people.

As for the precepts of our religion. As catholics the precepts we tend to follow are those laid out in the ten commandments. Other precepts devised by the catholic church some of which are verging on ridiculous and antiquated.

An Fear Aniar

Why would you want to be a hypocrite?

Unless you intend to fully live the Catholic life, what business have you getting married in a Catholic ceremony?



.

AngryHippie

Just find a different priest. or religion.

Stark

CTU_Agent wrote: »

I commend that. But it shoudn't mean I have no right to get married under the eye of god because I don't attend Mass. It is not stipuated in the bible that 'he who does not attend mass should not be married".

It's a matter of respect for the priest in charge of the church. You're asking for the use of his church for your ceremony, yet you want nothing to do with his church. A church represents a community of people, it's not like some hotel that you can just rent out.

CTU_Agent wrote:

No not the catholic church...Religion. Religion plays little part in peoples lives nowadays. Perhaps im generalising, apologies if I am, but I would have thought this was the case for a lot of people.

And those people should realise that the Church/local priests are doing them a huge favour if they choose to allow them the use of their premises. I know a lot of priests will insist that people come to Mass in a church for a reasonable period of time before they'll allow them to be married in that church.

It's only right in my opinion. If you prefer to have nothing to do with the Church, then you would be better off booking a different premises to get married in.

CTU_Agent

humanji wrote: »

I find it funny that you have such little regard for Catholicism yet you want a Catholic ceremony. Sure, you're even planning on lying to the priest just to trick him into letting you get married in the church. Not really a good start to a Catholic marriage now, is it?

We don't want to lie, that is why are our initial meeting we were up front and honest. In retrospect, its one of those situations where honesty isn't always the best policy.

We are left with no alternative now other than lying. If they refuse to marry us why not just expel us altogether for being poor chrisitians that commit mortal sins. I'm sure when they've adopted that attitude with all its 'followers' the whole institition will consist of just the priests themselves...and even that is very doubtful nowadays.

philologos

CTU_Agent wrote: »

We are left with no alternative now other than lying. If they refuse to marry us why not just expel us altogether for being poor chrisitians that commit mortal sins. I'm sure when they've adopted that attitude with all its 'followers' the whole institition will consist of just the priests themselves...and even that is very doubtful nowadays.

I can understand why the priest did ask said questions. The Church is a place for worship, and he is probably trying to determine your beliefs and to see how committed you will be to the Church if you do get married.

CTU_Agent

Jakkass wrote: »

I can understand why the priest did ask said questions. The Church is a place for worship, and he is probably trying to determine your beliefs and to see how committed you will be to the Church if you do get married.

Absolutley, the form they must fill out details all these types of questions. Our beliefs are obvious, otherwise we wouldn't be requesting a church wedding..Our commitment to the church and to the teachings of the bible is in doubt however.

AngryHippie

I think that to be fair, the priest has every right not to marry you, but in the bigger picture, it is that attitude from the church that is leading to its demise. For the first time in civilization, people are able to communicate their experiences and thoughts anonymously and honestly and see the world as it is, instead of how some would like you to percieve it. If you do not go to mass other than for social convention, such as weddings funerals and baptisms, you should not be judged by those that do, thats bullcrap. Granted those that go every week are keeping the PP in a job and keepin a roof on the church, but that gives you absolutely no right to turn around and deny someone else the right to have a ceremony there. Its elitist nonsense, the priest won't marry you for free either, So I'm not sure exactly what the problem is.
Change priest, Change religion or abandon both.

CTU_Agent

AngryHippie wrote: »

I think that to be fair, the priest has every right not to marry you, but in the bigger picture, it is that attitude from the church that is leading to its demise. For the first time in civilization, people are able to communicate their experiences and thoughts anonymously and honestly and see the world as it is, instead of how some would like you to percieve it. If you do not go to mass other than for social convention, such as weddings funerals and baptisms, you should not be judged by those that do, thats bullcrap. Granted those that go every week are keeping the PP in a job and keepin a roof on the church, but that gives you absolutely no right to turn around and deny someone else the right to have a ceremony there. Its elitist nonsense, the priest won't marry you for free either, So I'm not sure exactly what the problem is.
Change priest, Change religion or abandon both.

Sense at last...Your point of view certainly more in line with mine right now..Funny thing is this isn't even the priest that is marrying us. This priest is our local parish priest at our new home. We had to see him to get released back to the parish in which my fiancee grew up.

philologos

CTU_Agent wrote: »

Absolutley, the form they must fill out details all these types of questions. Our beliefs are obvious, otherwise we wouldn't be requesting a church wedding..Our commitment to the church and to the teachings of the bible is in doubt however.

Many people who don't believe take up church weddings in order to please their families among other things.

I don't understand this though? Why would your faith in the Bible be swayed by a priest merely considering over the technicalities of your wedding? Surely if it was faith and belief in the first place you would have some kind of motive to keep going? And finally even if a priest says something or other why blame the Bible for this?

As part of a non-Catholic church, I'm not in agreement with his idea of marriage as a means of bearing children. Marriage is not merely for producing child birth but he has to figure our your relationship to the Church and God if any to see if marriage is viable in a church.

Stark

AngryHippie wrote:

Granted those that go every week are keeping the PP in a job and keepin a roof on the church, but that gives you absolutely no right to turn around and deny someone else the right to have a ceremony there.

Since when is it a "right" to have a ceremony there? Typical Irish attitude, everything's a right and there can be absolutely no give. Being a non-practicing Catholic, yet expecting the Church to give you a Catholic wedding is taking the priest for a fool and he's perfectly right not to accept that.

Tim Robbins

BrianCalgary wrote: »

I think this is what really confuses me.
Couple doesn't attend mass.
The priest doesn't know them.
They demand a Catholic church wedding.
They get mad at the priest for not acquiescing to their desires.

Hypocrisy to me. If you dont go to mass and are part of the church body how can you expect the priest to roll over and compromise his values for your convenience?

(I dont agree with the reason for his stance, I'm just questioning yours?)

+1
If you don't like their rules, what gives you the right to get married in their Church?
Why makes you think the RC Church should work under your rules when you won't work under their's?

With respect, I don't understand people like you. You stand up infront of your friends / families swear love to each other in the name of God and how the RC perceives it. But you perception of God is entirely different as you say yourself. So you are prepared to lie infront of everyone about your beliefs while at the sametime swearing life oath infront of everyone. It's complete non-sensical but you think it's common sense. Fair play to the Priest challenging you.

CTU_Agent

Jakkass wrote: »

Many people who don't believe take up church weddings in order to please their families among other things.

I don't understand this though? Why would your faith in the Bible be swayed by a priest merely considering over the technicalities of your wedding? Surely if it was faith and belief in the first place you would have some kind of motive to keep going? And finally even if a priest says something or other why blame the Bible for this?

As part of a non-Catholic church, I'm not in agreement with his idea of marriage as a means of bearing children. Marriage is not merely for producing child birth but he has to figure our your relationship to the Church and God if any to see if marriage is viable in a church.

certainly, who said just because I dont go to mass that my faith or beliefs are not in line with that of a 'practicing' christian. I still believe in god, i praise him in other ways.. You dont have to go to mass every sunday to praise god. it seems the only person your praising is the priest.

philologos

CTU_Agent wrote: »

certainly, who said just because I dont go to mass that my faith or beliefs are not in line with that of a 'practicing' christian. I still believe in god, i praise him in other ways.. You dont have to go to mass every sunday to praise god. it seems the only person your praising is the priest.

absolutely but you can imagine what he is thinking now. If you have other ways of praising God you have other ways of getting married also. Not saying I entirely agree with that but that's the mentality behind it.

I don't know the priest to praise to be honest with you.

CTU_Agent

Tim Robbins wrote: »

+1
If you don't like their rules, why gives you the right to get married in their Church?

what give this priest the right to suddenly say im not good enough to get married in church.

The bible does not stipulate I must go to mass every week otherwise marriage is not an option.

As a christian its my right to get married in a church, not my right as a person, its my god given right.

Stark

CTU_Agent wrote: »

As a christian its my right to get married in a church, not my right as a person, its my god given right.

lol.

Isn't everything?

Tim Robbins

CTU_Agent wrote: »

what give this priest the right to suddenly say im not good enough to get married in church.

Because he is following the rules of the organisation.
Why do expect him to do? Break rules for you. Why should he break rules for an organisation he has made a lifetime commitment to, for someone who has made no commitment to it.

The bible does not stipulate I must go to mass every week otherwise marriage is not an option.

As a christian its my right to get married in a church, not my right as a person, its my god given right.

The RC Church is a apostolistic faith. It has more rules besides those in the Bible.
If you want Bible based Christianity go for one of the Protestant Churches.

DublinWriter

BrianCalgary wrote: »

Hypocrisy to me. If you dont go to mass and are part of the church body how can you expect the priest to roll over and compromise his values for your convenience?

Easily - just tell him that you're both converting to the Church of Ireland and watch that paperwork fly-on through the Archbishop's House.

It's all part of the hypocrisy; the Catholic church allows married Protestant priests with kids who convert to practice as Catholic priests and also recognises the legitimacy of the children.

Basically OP, you made the big mistake of being truthful to your local PP. Just tell him whatever guff he wants to hear and get on with the serious business of planning the reception.

coffee_cake

CTU_Agent wrote: »

what give this priest the right to suddenly say im not good enough to get married in church.

The bible does not stipulate I must go to mass every week otherwise marriage is not an option.

As a christian its my right to get married in a church, not my right as a person, its my god given right.

oh come off it and stop being a spoilt hypocrite
go find another church and lie to them instead, eh

if you were that worked up about being a christian you'd go to mass

and if you dont agree with one of the basic precepts of the church dont get married in it :rolleyes: and no, we don't care about what everyone else is doing becuse your wedding should not be about what everyone else gets that you don't so that you feel left out

aie

Soul Winner

I'm with everyone else. If you don't like the rules of the RC Church then do what I did and excommunicate yourself from it. There are plenty of other ways to get married in the eyes of God. In saying that though you won't get a big Church wedding and won't be able to impress your friends. But if that is what's motivating you to be married in a Catholic Church in the first place rather than because you love the person you are marrying then lying about your motives to the Priest will not make any difference in the eyes of God, you are already lying to yourself anyway.

But I do think it is a bit rich of the Priest to get all Holy on your ass when nearly everyone I know of that has gotten married in a RC Church care nothing for it from one end of the year to the other so I fail to see why he's being so pedantic about it with you

Fanny Cradock

Soul Winner wrote: »

I'm with everyone else. If you don't like the rules of the RC Church then do what I did and excommunicate yourself from it. There are plenty of other ways to get married in the eyes of God. In saying that though you won't get a big Church wedding and won't be able to impress your friends. But if that is what's motivating you to be married in a Catholic Church in the first place rather than because you love the person you are marrying then lying about your motives to the Priest will not make any difference in the eyes of God, you are already lying to yourself anyway.

But I do think it is a bit rich of the Priest to get all Holy on your ass when nearly everyone I know of that has gotten married in a RC Church care nothing for it from one end of the year to the other so I fail to see why he's being so pedantic about it with you

From my understanding, the premise of a Christian marriage extends greatly beyond that of loving your spouse, SW. It is a relationship not based merely upon loving your better half but also on God. More learned Christians can expand on this, I'm sure. With this in mind, and given the OPs lax attitude towards the Church's rules (I'm not judging, btw), it is entirely reasonable for the priest to refuse the OP and his fiancée a service in the Church. Given the sentiment of your previous paragraph it is contradictory of you to criticise the priest for his actions. Actions that you have assumed he is not consistent in applying to others.

Since the OP has failed to adhere to some of the more basic principles of Catholicism (again, I'm not condemning him), I would question why he and his fiancée feel the need to have a wedding in a Catholic Church at all.

Soul Winner

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

From my understanding, the premise of a Christian marriage extends greatly beyond that of loving your spouse, SW. It is a relationship not based merely upon loving your better half but also on God.

Marriage is merely a union between two people that is blessed by God. It’s just a contract (all be it a very special contract to the individuals involved) that two people agree to be faithful to until death in the sight of God. If God exists at all isn’t everything in His sight anyway? What escapes Him? Shouldn't they love God regardless of whether they are married or not? If they don't love Him already then how will getting married to each other change that?

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

With this in mind, and given the OPs lax attitude towards the Church's rules (I'm not judging, btw), it is entirely reasonable for the priest to refuse the OP and his fiancée a service in the Church.

I never said it wasn't reasonable, just very double standard-ish given that there are thousands of people in this country that don't care a dime about the RCC from one end of the year to the other even after they are married? They are not God centred people. They are self centred people. I've nothing against that per se but loose the holy marriage thing and just live with each other and be faithful to each other. God will still bless you if you just ask Him to. He doesn't need a Church building to do that. If you don't believe in Mass and all that RCC stuff then have the gonads to get out of it and live your convictions. Give me an outright atheist any day, I can respect them for at least being honest to what they perceive to be truth and living by it.

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Given the sentiment of your previous paragraph it is contradictory of you to criticise the priest for his actions.

If the RCC are going to be serious about people going to Mass etc before allowing them to be married then why don't they do it to everyone across the board? Or maybe they do but people just lie to them? Hence my previous point.

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Actions that you have assumed he is not consistent in applying to others.

Yes I have assumed that and I’m open to correction on it. Do you assume I am wrong? Then I assume that you are probably right.

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Since the OP has failed to adhere to some of the more basic principles of Catholicism (again, I'm not condemning him), I would question why he and his fiancée feel the need to have a wedding in a Catholic Church at all.

So do I. If they don't like the way the RCC does things then my advice is simple; tow the line and shut up or stop being a so called Catholic living a lie and just get out of it.

If you’re gonna be a Roman Catholic then BE ONE. To me a Roman Catholic is someone who goes to Mass every week, prays the Rosary at whatever time they pray the Rosary, pauses for the Angeles, observes Holy days like Ascension Thursday and Good Friday, who get ashes on Ash Wednesday and so on and so on. I can respect Catholics that do those things because that is what being a Catholic is, actually being one. If you are not doing these Catholic things when it is the Catholic time to do them then you are not a Catholic despite what it says on your Baptismal cert. There is no such thing as a non practising Catholic who call themselves Catholic IMO. To me you’re just non Catholic. It’s no big deal, just stop confusing yourself about who and what you are and just be who you really are and let the chips fall where they may. Like the atheists, at least they know what they are and what believe and don’t believe.

CTU_Agent

Soul Winner wrote: »

I'm with everyone else. If you don't like the rules of the RC Church then do what I did and excommunicate yourself from it. There are plenty of other ways to get married in the eyes of God. In saying that though you won't get a big Church wedding and won't be able to impress your friends. But if that is what's motivating you to be married in a Catholic Church in the first place rather than because you love the person you are marrying then lying about your motives to the Priest will not make any difference in the eyes of God, you are already lying to yourself anyway.

But I do think it is a bit rich of the Priest to get all Holy on your ass when nearly everyone I know of that has gotten married in a RC Church care nothing for it from one end of the year to the other so I fail to see why he's being so pedantic about it with you

I have absolutley no interest in getting married in a church to impress friends and family. If I wanted to impress i would have booked a castle and had a civil ceremony instead. My reasons for getting married in a church are because I am catholic and I want our marriage to take place in the house of god. Simple as that.

Bduffman

Personally I hope the catholic church would enforce their rules if they truly believe they are that important. Then we'd see how many catholics there actually are in the country. I am always amazed at how many people call themselves catholics yet don't believe in the basic beliefs of the church eg the bread used at being actually converted into flesh?? How many people truly believe in that?? I'll bet its far few than is stated on the last census thats for sure. As I said, if the catholic church insist on strictly applying their rules then it'll die off far quicker than its happening now. If you limit marriages to only 'true catholics' we'd see very few church weddings. Keep it up boys you're only speeding up your own demise.

Tim Robbins

CTU_Agent wrote: »

My reasons for getting married in a church are because I am catholic and I want our marriage to take place in the house of god. Simple as that.

Unbelievable. The organisation has told you the rules, the price for breaking them. Perhaps if you really were Catholic, you'd actually know them.

Do you have a problem with rules in general?
If you don't like the rules, and wish to remain Christian join another Church.
You can't have it both ways, with respect you sound like a spoilt little child.

Tim Robbins

Bduffman wrote: »

Personally I hope the catholic church would enforce their rules if they truly believe they are that important. Then we'd see how many catholics there actually are in the country. I am always amazed at how many people call themselves catholics yet don't believe in the basic beliefs of the church eg the bread used at being actually converted into flesh?? How many people truly believe in that?? I'll bet its far few than is stated on the last census thats for sure. As I said, if the catholic church insist on strictly applying their rules then it'll die off far quicker than its happening now. If you limit marriages to only 'true catholics' we'd see very few church weddings. Keep it up boys you're only speeding up your own demise.

+1
Especially the sacraments. Most people who called themself Roman Catholic haven't really much a clue about what any of its believes are. If the Roman Catholic Church actually stuck to its rules, this OP's dilema would be the rule not the exception. Then people might actually tell the truth on the census, the government would have better data and we actually have more secular schools and multi-denomial schools.

My sister wanted a Church wedding, got it and seemed perturbed by the idea she had to go to Mass and Church wedding course. Now pretty much the same is happening because she wants to baptize her child. She asks the Priest for info, Priest says: "Why are you asking me this? I made an announcement about this at mass last weekend? Where you not there?"
"No"
"Well I'll be making them again this weekend?"
I say fair play to him. All this pretending to be Roman Catholic just to keep up with Jones, is nothing more than lies. Religions thrive on truth. Why should they facilitate things they know are lies?