Priest objecting to marriage?

CTU_Agent

Hi,

My Fiancee and I are getting married (hopefully) in July. However after meeting with the priest last week to complete our pre-nuptial enquiry form, which was a bit of an ordeal, he seems to have reservations about marrying us.

A section on the form asks if you promise to raise your children unders god's blah blah blah, anyway...I of course said 'yes no problem' (hoping to get it over and done with quickly), My Fiancee on the other hand said 'I dont plan on having children.' Well.....the priest couldn't believe it. He sat us both down for a half an hour talking about it....And then asks ...'Why are you getting married if you dont want kids'? ..What kind of question is that?

After a lenghty discussion he basically had to get advice on the situation as he's never come across it before...and he calls me last night and wants to meet us with what sounded like bad news.....

This post is long enough already so....Is he or can they really not marry you if children are not being considered?

Bduffman

Thats something I can't understand about the catholic church. Marriage from their point of view is supposed to be for the procreation of children. Yet I have seen plenty of examples of people being married in a church who are - to put it kindly - well past the age of having children. So how come they can get married and not yourselves?
Why doesn't fiancee just say she's changed her mind? Its only a little lie as minds can always be changed in the future.

Nevyn

Well if you are not practicing catholics and are not going to have kids and are going to be using contraception then don't have a chruch wedding.

CTU_Agent

we were born and raised as catholics, lets face it not many people can say they are 'practising' catholics. We were baptised, and confirmed, why shouldn't we have a church wedding?

Marriage is about the union of two people and those two people sharing their lives together. Wheter or not we wish to have children shouldn't be an issue.

What if we were unable to have kids? Does that mean you cant get married?

Im sure were not the only couple in the catholic world who for whatever reason does not want to have children. That decision does not affect our faith or our beliefs

death1234567

Catholic preist in spouting nonsense shocker! Surely not.

seamus

The priest himself can of course refuse to marry you, that's his personal choice. As far as I know, the parish/church can also refuse to allow you to get married there.

You'll find that the attitude of priests and parishes covers a broad spectrum of beliefs. Some priests will marry anyone without question and other priests won't marry someone if they haven't seen them in mass in the last 10 years.

The bible and catholic doctrine puts a lot of emphasis on there being a "Catholic duty" to impregnate one's wife and to raise many children, as Catholic. If you find a priest who strongly believes in this piece of doctrine (they'll be particularly old and fussy - the "No meat on Friday" types), they may say that they're morally opposed to marrying two people who do not wish to have children.

kelly1

CTU_Agent wrote: »

Hi,

My Fiancee on the other hand said 'I dont plan on having children.' Well.....the priest couldn't believe it. He sat us both down for a half an hour talking about it....And then asks ...'Why are you getting married if you dont want kids'? ..What kind of question is that?

Hello, if you're planning on using contraception you'd be better off not getting married within the Church. As you probably know contraception is regarded as a grave/mortal sin by the Church. So if you can't live by the rules, why get married in a Catholic Church (assuming that you plan to use contraception).

God bless,
Noel.

CTU_Agent

so the issue really is the use of contraception and not the bringing children into the world part.


I wonder if we had a 'change of heart' tonight and said ok, we've thought about it and we will eventuallly have children. Would the priest buy that?

Latchy

Religious beliefs aside , what buissness is it of the priest weather you do or do not have children ? I thought the days of priests getting into the marrige bed were gone ,seemingly not :rolleyes:

BendiBus

latchyco wrote: »

Religious beliefs aside...

ehm, the OP is trying to arrange a religious ceremony. You can't put religious beliefs aside!

If you don't agree with the rules of the Catholic religion then it's unfair to expect a Catholic marriage ceremony.

I thought the days of priests getting into the marrige bed were gone ,seemingly not

The priest won't stop you from living your own life the way you choose, but it's unfair to expect their support either.

Latchy

BendiBus wrote: »

ehm, the OP is trying to arrange a religious ceremony. You can't put religious beliefs aside!

If you don't agree with the rules of the Catholic religion then it's unfair to expect a Catholic marriage ceremony.

Fair enough and i respect anybodys religion ,but in my case i would .

The priest won't stop you from living your own life the way you choose, but it's unfair to expect their support either.

True, think they he would be the last person i would look for support of anyway thanks .

philologos

Thaedydal wrote: »

Well if you are not practicing catholics and are not going to have kids and are going to be using contraception then don't have a chruch wedding.

I don't think this is a reasonable comment.

Jesus said that marriage was for a man and a woman to come together under God and become one. Nothing was mentioned about procreating.

Mark 9:7-9 wrote:

"For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined with his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together let no one separate.

I'd say go to another Church if you are serious about being married under God. (such as Church of Ireland etc). I don't see why people can't be married without the intention of having children.

Nevyn

CTU_Agent wrote: »

What if we were unable to have kids? Does that mean you cant get married?

I know a couple where one of them could not have kids and the first priest they went to refused to marry them.

CTU_Agent

I'm not looking forward to meeting him tonight...my fiancee wont be impressed either, 5 months before the big day...


I'l let ye know how we get on, I suppose if he wont buy the change of heart we've had over night, we'l speak to the priest who is actually marrying us and get his view and take it from there..

Zombrex

Jakkass wrote: »

I'd say go to another Church if you are serious about being married under God. (such as Church of Ireland etc). I don't see why people can't be married without the intention of having children.

The Catholic Church teaches that children are a blessing from God, and that the purpose of marriage to to form a union that will facilitate this blessing if God so wishes. God may decide to not grant a married couple a child, but it is not the place of a married couple to decide to refuse God's blessing of a child. Getting married demonstrates to God that you are ready to receive this blessing, if he so wishes.

Its one of the reasons they object to homosexual marriage so much, and to contraception.

Bduffman

kelly1 wrote: »

Hello, if you're planning on using contraception you'd be better off not getting married within the Church. As you probably know contraception is regarded as a grave/mortal sin by the Church. So if you can't live by the rules, why get married in a Catholic Church (assuming that you plan to use contraception).

I wonder how many church weddings there would be every year if this rule was strictly adhered to?

robindch

CTU_Agent wrote: »

Is he or can they really not marry you if children are not being considered?

The catholic church requires people who marry "in" it to attempt to have children, and it permits divorce in cases where children are not produced for whatever reason. If the priest has good reason to believe that you're not going to have children then canon law states, I believe, that he can refuse to carry out the ceremony. I don't have references to hand, but I'm sure you can find them on the Vatican website without too much trouble.

The reason that the church takes this harsh line is that, for its own survival, it requires parents who are committed to producing children who are exposed to the church from an early age, so that they in turn will do the same to their children -- it's a form of self-protection. If you're not going to do this, then the church has understandably little interest in the marriage as it gains nothing from it. As wicknight implies, the prohibitions on contraception and homosexuality exist for the same reason.

Incidentally, this tradition does suggest quite strongly that the church's interest in marriage does not actually extend to providing the stable social institution within which two people can love each other, as you'd be inclined to think from their preaching on the topics of love and marriage.

You may have more luck in other churches, while the state marriage civil marriage ceremony has no rules on this one way or the other. In the eyes of the state, whether you have kids is entirely up to you.

kelly1

CTU_Agent wrote: »

so the issue really is the use of contraception and not the bringing children into the world part.

It's both issues. You might find this link useful:

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9911frs.asp

CTU_Agent wrote: »

I wonder if we had a 'change of heart' tonight and said ok, we've thought about it and we will eventuallly have children. Would the priest buy that?

That would depend on your sincerity.

robindch

kelly1 wrote: »

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9911frs.asp

Thanks for that link -- that fills out what I was mumbling about up above.

BrianCalgary

I think this is what really confuses me.
Couple doesn't attend mass.
The priest doesn't know them.
They demand a Catholic church wedding.
They get mad at the priest for not acquiescing to their desires.

Hypocrisy to me. If you dont go to mass and are part of the church body how can you expect the priest to roll over and compromise his values for your convenience?

(I dont agree with the reason for his stance, I'm just questioning yours?)

BrianCalgary

robindch wrote: »

The catholic church requires people who marry "in" it to attempt to have children, and it permits divorce in cases where children are not produced for whatever reason. If the priest has good reason to believe that you're not going to have children then canon law states, I believe, that he can refuse to carry out the ceremony. I don't have references to hand, but I'm sure you can find them on the Vatican website without too much trouble.

The reason that the church takes this harsh line is that, for its own survival, it requires parents who are committed to producing children who are exposed to the church from an early age, so that they in turn will do the same to their children -- it's a form of self-protection. If you're not going to do this, then the church has understandably little interest in the marriage as it gains nothing from it. As wicknight implies, the prohibitions on contraception and homosexuality exist for the same reason.

Incidentally, this tradition does suggest quite strongly that the church's interest in marriage does not actually extend to providing the stable social institution within which two people can love each other, as you'd be inclined to think from their preaching on the topics of love and marriage.

You may have more luck in other churches, while the state marriage civil marriage ceremony has no rules on this one way or the other. In the eyes of the state, whether you have kids is entirely up to you.

The 'conspiracy ' is on, prpogated by a large institution.

C'mon robin you should be

DO0GLE

Tell him it depends on your circumstances.....finanicial, big mortgage etc, etc, that if the circumstances were right you would like to have children but its not suitable for you at this moment in time

Quality

a little ot, but had you and your fiance discussed the whole having, not having children thing before this meeting?

robindch

BrianCalgary wrote: »

The 'conspiracy ' is on, prpogated by a large institution.

Not really a 'conspiracy' at all, as much of this is unintentional. It's just the way the religion has evolved, there's nothing mysterious or conspiratorial about it at all

CTU_Agent

"" I think this is what really confuses me.
Couple doesn't attend mass.
The priest doesn't know them.
They demand a Catholic church wedding.
They get mad at the priest for not acquiescing to their desires.

Hypocrisy to me. If you dont go to mass and are part of the church body how can you expect the priest to roll over and compromise his values for your convenience?

(I dont agree with the reason for his stance, I'm just questioning yours?)"""





That argument doesnt stand up.

The Majortiy of this country don't go to mass anymore. For a variety of reasons. Yet we have church weddings every single day. Just because you don't go to mass does not mean you're suddenly not catholic. We were all raised as catholics and therefor live our lives the christian way, which means Baptisim, communion, confirmation, regualr mass and confession (granted may not always happen) and then marriage and of course funeral.

Its bad enough that some people (also catholic) are forced to marry in registry office's if one or both have been divorced as the church views such people as adulters. I mean what sort of Antiquated teachings are these, im sure this argument will pave the way for the much broader argument of are the teachings of the bible suited to a modern society?

We've been baptised, and confirmed and I'm sure each and every one of us show our appreciation to God on some level in some shape or form so I don't think its too much to ask after 25 years of being a catholic (albeit not a mass going one) to ask now that we are allowed to marry under the eyes of god. We remain Christians, we never changed our religious beliefs, and im sure when the time comes my funeral will take place in a church also...So why will they allow everything else and not marriage.

Im not asking for the priest or the religion to sacrifice its beliefs so we can have the 'wedding of our dreams' in a church, im asking for a little common sense approach in a society that is already losing touch with our religion why further ostricise the church by refusing to marry willing followers requesting a marriage under the eyes of god?

CTU_Agent

Quality wrote: »

a little ot, but had you and your fiance discussed the whole having, not having children thing before this meeting?

Yes, of course. We've talked about it many times..

Call Me Jimmy

What I want to know is - what is the origin of priests not being allowed to marry? Is it in the bible? Why is everyone else allowed to marry and that's ok with god, but priests are not?

kelly1

CTU_Agent wrote: »

That argument doesnt stand up.

The Majortiy of this country don't go to mass anymore. For a variety of reasons. Yet we have church weddings every single day. Just because you don't go to mass does not mean you're suddenly not catholic. We were all raised as catholics and therefor live our lives the christian way, which means Baptisim, communion, confirmation, regualr mass and confession (granted may not always happen) and then marriage and of course funeral.

Its bad enough that some people (also catholic) are forced to marry in registry office's if one or both have been divorced as the church views such people as adulters. I mean what sort of Antiquated teachings are these, im sure this argument will pave the way for the much broader argument of are the teachings of the bible suited to a modern society?

We've been baptised, and confirmed and I'm sure each and every one of us show our appreciation to God on some level in some shape or form so I don't think its too much to ask after 25 years of being a catholic (albeit not a mass going one) to ask now that we are allowed to marry under the eyes of god. We remain Christians, we never changed our religious beliefs, and im sure when the time comes my funeral will take place in a church also...So why will they allow everything else and not marriage.

Im not asking for the priest or the religion to sacrifice its beliefs so we can have the 'wedding of our dreams' in a church, im asking for a little common sense approach in a society that is already losing touch with our religion why further ostricise the church by refusing to marry willing followers requesting a marriage under the eyes of god?

Why get married in a Catholic Church when you don't go to Mass and you probably do or plan to use contraception, both of which are mortal sins!

Marriage would prevent the sin of fornication but that's not much good if you commit other mortal sins.

CTU_Agent

kelly1 wrote: »

Why get married in a Catholic Church when you don't go to Mass and you probably do or plan to use contraception, both of which are mortal sins!

Marriage would prevent the sin of fornication but that's not much good if you commit other mortal sins.

Going by this logic...There are a lot of people in the Christian world commiting mortal sins everyday. Women across this country alone are consuming the contraceptive pill at higher rates than ever. As for Mass, who can honestly say in this day and age that they go to Mass every Sunday .....very few id imagine.

Religion has lost its grip on our society and surely can no longer expect the respect of its parishioners or its commitment to regular mass.

philologos

kelly1 wrote: »

Why get married in a Catholic Church when you don't go to Mass and you probably do or plan to use contraception, both of which are mortal sins!

Just curious actually. Where does it say in the Bible that if you do not go to Church that it is a sin. I'm a churchgoer myself on a regular basis, but I'm just wondering from a Biblical point of view.

kelly1

CTU_Agent wrote: »

Going by this logic...There are a lot of people in the Christian world commiting mortal sins everyday. Women across this country alone are consuming the contraceptive pill at higher rates than ever.

True, very few fully accept Church teachings on morality.

CTU_Agent wrote: »

As for Mass, who can honestly say in this day and age that they go to Mass every Sunday .....very few id imagine.

I do.

CTU_Agent wrote: »

Religion has lost its grip on our society and surely can no longer expect the respect of its parishioners or its commitment to regular mass.

You mean the Catholic Church? Why shouldn't people accept the precepts of the Church?

Stark

CTU_Agent wrote:

That argument doesnt stand up.

The Majortiy of this country don't go to mass anymore. For a variety of reasons. Yet we have church weddings every single day. Just because you don't go to mass does not mean you're suddenly not catholic. We were all raised as catholics and therefor live our lives the christian way, which means Baptisim, communion, confirmation, regualr mass and confession (granted may not always happen) and then marriage and of course funeral.

The Church doesn't have to bend over for you if you prefer to have nothing to do with the Church except when it suits you.

CTU_Agent wrote:

Religion has lost its grip on our society and surely can no longer expect the respect of its parishioners or its commitment to regular mass.

It doesn't have to expect people to commit to regular mass, but it doesn't have to hand over its property any time those people want to dress up and play pretend Catholics either.

kelly1

Jakkass wrote: »

Just curious actually. Where does it say in the Bible that if you do not go to Church that it is a sin. I'm a churchgoer myself on a regular basis, but I'm just wondering from a Biblical point of view.

It doesn't say that in the bible and nor does it have to. Jesus gave the Church the keys of the Kingdom and the power to bind and loose. The Church decided that Catholics are bound to attend Mass every Sunday. It's their prerogative.

humanji

CTU_Agent wrote: »

Going by this logic...There are a lot of people in the Christian world commiting mortal sins everyday. Women across this country alone are consuming the contraceptive pill at higher rates than ever. As for Mass, who can honestly say in this day and age that they go to Mass every Sunday .....very few id imagine.

Religion has lost its grip on our society and surely can no longer expect the respect of its parishioners or its commitment to regular mass.

I find it funny that you have such little regard for Catholicism yet you want a Catholic ceremony. Sure, you're even planning on lying to the priest just to trick him into letting you get married in the church. Not really a good start to a Catholic marriage now, is it?

Run_to_da_hills

kelly1 wrote: »

It doesn't say that in the bible and nor does it have to. Jesus gave the Church the keys of the Kingdom and the power to bind and loose. The Church decided that Catholics are bound to attend Mass every Sunday. It's their prerogative.

There are only two religions: (1) the Truth of the Almighty, as expressed in His Word, the Holy Bible; and (2) every other belief. These two religions cannot be mixed, without disastrous results.

CTU_Agent

kelly1 wrote: »

True, very few fully accept Church teachings on morality.

I do.

You mean the Catholic Church? Why shouldn't people accept the precepts of the Church?

I commend that. But it shoudn't mean I have no right to get married under the eye of god because I don't attend Mass. It is not stipuated in the bible that 'he who does not attend mass should not be married".

No not the catholic church...Religion. Religion plays little part in peoples lives nowadays. Perhaps im generalising, apologies if I am, but I would have thought this was the case for a lot of people.

As for the precepts of our religion. As catholics the precepts we tend to follow are those laid out in the ten commandments. Other precepts devised by the catholic church some of which are verging on ridiculous and antiquated.

An Fear Aniar

Why would you want to be a hypocrite?

Unless you intend to fully live the Catholic life, what business have you getting married in a Catholic ceremony?



.

AngryHippie

Just find a different priest. or religion.

Stark

CTU_Agent wrote: »

I commend that. But it shoudn't mean I have no right to get married under the eye of god because I don't attend Mass. It is not stipuated in the bible that 'he who does not attend mass should not be married".

It's a matter of respect for the priest in charge of the church. You're asking for the use of his church for your ceremony, yet you want nothing to do with his church. A church represents a community of people, it's not like some hotel that you can just rent out.

CTU_Agent wrote:

No not the catholic church...Religion. Religion plays little part in peoples lives nowadays. Perhaps im generalising, apologies if I am, but I would have thought this was the case for a lot of people.

And those people should realise that the Church/local priests are doing them a huge favour if they choose to allow them the use of their premises. I know a lot of priests will insist that people come to Mass in a church for a reasonable period of time before they'll allow them to be married in that church.

It's only right in my opinion. If you prefer to have nothing to do with the Church, then you would be better off booking a different premises to get married in.

CTU_Agent

humanji wrote: »

I find it funny that you have such little regard for Catholicism yet you want a Catholic ceremony. Sure, you're even planning on lying to the priest just to trick him into letting you get married in the church. Not really a good start to a Catholic marriage now, is it?

We don't want to lie, that is why are our initial meeting we were up front and honest. In retrospect, its one of those situations where honesty isn't always the best policy.

We are left with no alternative now other than lying. If they refuse to marry us why not just expel us altogether for being poor chrisitians that commit mortal sins. I'm sure when they've adopted that attitude with all its 'followers' the whole institition will consist of just the priests themselves...and even that is very doubtful nowadays.

philologos

CTU_Agent wrote: »

We are left with no alternative now other than lying. If they refuse to marry us why not just expel us altogether for being poor chrisitians that commit mortal sins. I'm sure when they've adopted that attitude with all its 'followers' the whole institition will consist of just the priests themselves...and even that is very doubtful nowadays.

I can understand why the priest did ask said questions. The Church is a place for worship, and he is probably trying to determine your beliefs and to see how committed you will be to the Church if you do get married.

CTU_Agent

Jakkass wrote: »

I can understand why the priest did ask said questions. The Church is a place for worship, and he is probably trying to determine your beliefs and to see how committed you will be to the Church if you do get married.

Absolutley, the form they must fill out details all these types of questions. Our beliefs are obvious, otherwise we wouldn't be requesting a church wedding..Our commitment to the church and to the teachings of the bible is in doubt however.

AngryHippie

I think that to be fair, the priest has every right not to marry you, but in the bigger picture, it is that attitude from the church that is leading to its demise. For the first time in civilization, people are able to communicate their experiences and thoughts anonymously and honestly and see the world as it is, instead of how some would like you to percieve it. If you do not go to mass other than for social convention, such as weddings funerals and baptisms, you should not be judged by those that do, thats bullcrap. Granted those that go every week are keeping the PP in a job and keepin a roof on the church, but that gives you absolutely no right to turn around and deny someone else the right to have a ceremony there. Its elitist nonsense, the priest won't marry you for free either, So I'm not sure exactly what the problem is.
Change priest, Change religion or abandon both.

CTU_Agent

AngryHippie wrote: »

I think that to be fair, the priest has every right not to marry you, but in the bigger picture, it is that attitude from the church that is leading to its demise. For the first time in civilization, people are able to communicate their experiences and thoughts anonymously and honestly and see the world as it is, instead of how some would like you to percieve it. If you do not go to mass other than for social convention, such as weddings funerals and baptisms, you should not be judged by those that do, thats bullcrap. Granted those that go every week are keeping the PP in a job and keepin a roof on the church, but that gives you absolutely no right to turn around and deny someone else the right to have a ceremony there. Its elitist nonsense, the priest won't marry you for free either, So I'm not sure exactly what the problem is.
Change priest, Change religion or abandon both.

Sense at last...Your point of view certainly more in line with mine right now..Funny thing is this isn't even the priest that is marrying us. This priest is our local parish priest at our new home. We had to see him to get released back to the parish in which my fiancee grew up.

philologos

CTU_Agent wrote: »

Absolutley, the form they must fill out details all these types of questions. Our beliefs are obvious, otherwise we wouldn't be requesting a church wedding..Our commitment to the church and to the teachings of the bible is in doubt however.

Many people who don't believe take up church weddings in order to please their families among other things.

I don't understand this though? Why would your faith in the Bible be swayed by a priest merely considering over the technicalities of your wedding? Surely if it was faith and belief in the first place you would have some kind of motive to keep going? And finally even if a priest says something or other why blame the Bible for this?

As part of a non-Catholic church, I'm not in agreement with his idea of marriage as a means of bearing children. Marriage is not merely for producing child birth but he has to figure our your relationship to the Church and God if any to see if marriage is viable in a church.

Stark

AngryHippie wrote:

Granted those that go every week are keeping the PP in a job and keepin a roof on the church, but that gives you absolutely no right to turn around and deny someone else the right to have a ceremony there.

Since when is it a "right" to have a ceremony there? Typical Irish attitude, everything's a right and there can be absolutely no give. Being a non-practicing Catholic, yet expecting the Church to give you a Catholic wedding is taking the priest for a fool and he's perfectly right not to accept that.

Tim Robbins

BrianCalgary wrote: »

I think this is what really confuses me.
Couple doesn't attend mass.
The priest doesn't know them.
They demand a Catholic church wedding.
They get mad at the priest for not acquiescing to their desires.

Hypocrisy to me. If you dont go to mass and are part of the church body how can you expect the priest to roll over and compromise his values for your convenience?

(I dont agree with the reason for his stance, I'm just questioning yours?)

+1
If you don't like their rules, what gives you the right to get married in their Church?
Why makes you think the RC Church should work under your rules when you won't work under their's?

With respect, I don't understand people like you. You stand up infront of your friends / families swear love to each other in the name of God and how the RC perceives it. But you perception of God is entirely different as you say yourself. So you are prepared to lie infront of everyone about your beliefs while at the sametime swearing life oath infront of everyone. It's complete non-sensical but you think it's common sense. Fair play to the Priest challenging you.

CTU_Agent

Jakkass wrote: »

Many people who don't believe take up church weddings in order to please their families among other things.

I don't understand this though? Why would your faith in the Bible be swayed by a priest merely considering over the technicalities of your wedding? Surely if it was faith and belief in the first place you would have some kind of motive to keep going? And finally even if a priest says something or other why blame the Bible for this?

As part of a non-Catholic church, I'm not in agreement with his idea of marriage as a means of bearing children. Marriage is not merely for producing child birth but he has to figure our your relationship to the Church and God if any to see if marriage is viable in a church.

certainly, who said just because I dont go to mass that my faith or beliefs are not in line with that of a 'practicing' christian. I still believe in god, i praise him in other ways.. You dont have to go to mass every sunday to praise god. it seems the only person your praising is the priest.

philologos

CTU_Agent wrote: »

certainly, who said just because I dont go to mass that my faith or beliefs are not in line with that of a 'practicing' christian. I still believe in god, i praise him in other ways.. You dont have to go to mass every sunday to praise god. it seems the only person your praising is the priest.

absolutely but you can imagine what he is thinking now. If you have other ways of praising God you have other ways of getting married also. Not saying I entirely agree with that but that's the mentality behind it.

I don't know the priest to praise to be honest with you.

CTU_Agent

Tim Robbins wrote: »

+1
If you don't like their rules, why gives you the right to get married in their Church?

what give this priest the right to suddenly say im not good enough to get married in church.

The bible does not stipulate I must go to mass every week otherwise marriage is not an option.

As a christian its my right to get married in a church, not my right as a person, its my god given right.

Stark

CTU_Agent wrote: »

As a christian its my right to get married in a church, not my right as a person, its my god given right.

lol.

Isn't everything?