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Aritech cs350 house alarm

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13567…11

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    #62
    maithulamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9 ✭maithulamps


    KoolKid wrote: »
    To default remove mains power from the panel
    Disconnect the battery
    Remove Factory Link LK1
    Reconnect mains power to the system
    Enter Code 0 1122 If the system has been reset then this code should disarm it.
    Then enter 1278 to enter engineer mode.
    Replace the Factory & replace the battery.

    I've tried this a couple of times now. The outside bell rings and the only way to stop it is by entering the user code we have.

    What I'm doing....

    1. The battery is disconnected.
    2. Pull the A.C. input plug (PL1). The alarm starts to ring outside.
    3. Pull the JP1 factory settings plug (equivalent of LK1?)
    4. Reconnect the PL1 A.C. plug. The interal alarm rings.
    5. Go to keypad.
    6. Enter 0 1122. Panel says "Access Denied".
    7. Enter 0 1278. Panel says "Access Denied".
    8. So to stop the outside bell, I enter my user code. The bell stops.

    Any advice would be really appreciated!

    Cheers


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    #63
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    The panel is Engineer locked.


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    #64
    maithulamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9 ✭maithulamps


    Thanks for the speedy response KoolKid! :)

    I've had a read up on "Engineer Locked"... that's scandalous that they'd do that. I really don't want to have to pay the company a call out fee just to reset the codes.

    Do I have any alternative option to a call-out?

    Cheers


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    #65
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    The debates on engineer locking have raged here on many occasions.
    My view is its a security feature. Without it there a panel can de befaulted & disarmed in under a minute. I would not be happy leaving a panel that vunerable. I however have no problem changing someones code for free if they are willing to have it done when I'm passing or in the area. Others may not, but your first course of action would be to ask the installer.


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    #66
    maithulamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9 ✭maithulamps


    That's really sound of you KoolKid!! 8)

    How would I go about flashing the chip / replacing the chip or what is it that you'd be doing if you were working on it?


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    #67
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    That could be helping someone disable an alam , not a procedure I'm prepared to discuss on a public forum I'm afraid.


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    #68
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,666 ✭✭✭✭altor


    maithulamps wrote: »
    I've had a read up on "Engineer Locked"... that's scandalous that they'd do that. I really don't want to have to pay the company a call out fee just to reset the codes.

    Do I have any alternative option to a call-out?

    Cheers

    I would agree with you. Some installers do engineer lock there panels to keep you tied in to them. More secure, not really as any alarm system can be disabled even if it is engineer locked.

    From your point of view you will need an engineer to unlock the panel for you.

    www.altor.ie



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    #69
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    As any engineer can unlock a panel or get a panel unlocked by a manufacturer , I really don't understand how doing this keeps any customer tied to them. In fact quite the opposite , it would make a customer more determined to go elsewhere.
    A panel can be disabled if its engineer locked but not disarmed.
    It is also much more difficult for the average Joe.Something that has to be good.
    From a security point of view there is no logical reason not to lock the panel.
    If the installation company is willing to unlock or change the engineer code at a customers request there is no reason to leave it unlocked.
    Do you engineer lock your panels Altor?


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    #70
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,666 ✭✭✭✭altor


    KoolKid wrote: »
    A panel can be disabled if its engineer locked but not disarmed.

    If the panel is disabled does it mater if its armed or not ?

    www.altor.ie



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    #71
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    altor wrote: »
    If the panel is disabled does it mater if its armed or not ?
    If the panel is monitored & the bells are disabled it will still report events.
    If its disarmed it will not.Plus it will send a restore.

    What about?
    KoolKid wrote: »
    As any engineer can unlock a panel or get a panel unlocked by a manufacturer , I really don't understand how doing this keeps any customer tied to them.
    And
    KoolKid wrote: »
    If the installation company is willing to unlock or change the engineer code at a customers request there is no reason to leave it unlocked.
    Wouldn't you agree?
    And
    KoolKid wrote: »
    Do you engineer lock your panels Altor?


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    #72
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,666 ✭✭✭✭altor


    KoolKid wrote: »
    If the panel is monitored & the bells are disabled it will still report events.
    If its disarmed it will not.Plus it will send a restore.

    I dont think the OPs panel is monitored. Either way he will have to pay to have it unlocked by another company if his company does not give him the code. Thats why I agree with the OP 100%

    www.altor.ie



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    #73
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    But my questions were???????
    KoolKid wrote: »
    As any engineer can unlock a panel or get a panel unlocked by a manufacturer , I really don't understand how doing this keeps any customer tied to them.
    And
    KoolKid wrote: »
    If the installation company is willing to unlock or change the engineer code at a customers request there is no reason to leave it unlocked.
    Wouldn't you agree?
    And
    KoolKid wrote: »
    Do you engineer lock your panels Altor?


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    #74
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,666 ✭✭✭✭altor


    KoolKid wrote: »
    As any engineer can unlock a panel or get a panel unlocked by a manufacturer , I really don't understand how doing this keeps any customer tied to them.

    It does if they have to pay extra to have this service provided.
    KoolKid wrote: »
    If the installation company is willing to unlock or change the engineer code at a customers request there is no reason to leave it unlocked.

    Most companys will charge to call out to do this for him.
    KoolKid wrote: »
    I however have no problem changing someones code for free if they are willing to have it done when I'm passing or in the area.

    How much does it cost if your not passing ?

    www.altor.ie



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    #75
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    If a customer is looking for an engineer code , you have lost their business anyway. The panel being locked is not forcing any customer to deal with any particualr company.
    As you are trying to doge the next question I will rephrase it
    If the installation company is willing to unlock or change the engineer code at a customers request and at no cost to the customer there is no reason to leave it unlocked.
    Is there???

    If I am not passing and a customer wants it done straight away I would agree with the customer a reasonable call out that they are happy to pay for immidiate service. (This would be a lot less than a standard call out as there is no labour involved). . I have never come across this as I find people reasonable in this regard.

    Are you going to answer
    Do you engineer lock your panels Altor??
    :confused::confused::confused:


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    #76
    maithulamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9 ✭maithulamps


    From another thread at: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=98120&page=4

    "However, if you do want to reset your panel, there ARE ways to do it. Some are clever and un-documented, others involved sending the panel to other "third party unlocking" companies (kinda the same as the mobile phone unlocking companies).Snip>. And, I am certain that there are lots of other tricks / ways too!"




    Cheers lads.
    Mod edit: Please read the charter re posting of information on disableing security systems.


  • Options
    #77
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,666 ✭✭✭✭altor


    KoolKid wrote: »
    If a customer is looking for an engineer code , you have lost their business anyway. The panel being locked is not forcing any customer to deal with any particualr company.
    As you are trying to doge the next question I will rephrase it
    KoolKid wrote: »
    If the installation company is willing to unlock or change the engineer code at a customers request and at no cost to the customer there is no reason to leave it unlocked.
    KoolKid wrote: »
    Is there???

    Rephrase it all you want, if a company charges for reprogramming the alarm that is engineer locked it is going to cost the customer. You have proved this below with regard this as the customer would have to pay you to get the engineer code off the alarm system.
    KoolKid wrote: »
    call out that they are happy to pay for

    altor wrote: »
    More secure, not really as any alarm system can be disabled even if it is engineer locked.

    I am not going to say here how to disable an alarm systems but with the right know how it can be done, even if it is engineer locked.

    www.altor.ie



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    #78
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    I have just said if the company dont charge & you still dont answer the question.
    You know & I know that the methods of disbeling & disarming a locked panel arn't as widly available.

    3rd time asking
    Do you engineer lock your panels Altor?


  • Options
    #79
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,666 ✭✭✭✭altor


    maithulamps wrote: »
    From another thread at: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=98120&page=4

    "However, if you do want to reset your panel, there ARE ways to do it. <Snip>. but where is the IC on the Aritech cs350 ? (so I can go about shorting the legs / replacing it)

    Cheers lads.

    You will not get that info on boards.ie.

    www.altor.ie



  • Options
    #80
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,666 ✭✭✭✭altor


    KoolKid wrote: »
    I have just said if the company dont charge & you still dont answer the question.

    How do you know if they dont charge ?
    I would be very surprised if a customer asked me that question.
    KoolKid wrote: »
    You know & I know that the methods of disbeling & disarming a locked panel arn't as widly available.

    At lease we agree on something ;)

    www.altor.ie



  • Options
    #81
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    The question I am asking is if a company are willing to unlock the panel for free there is no logical reason not to lock the panel? Yes or No?

    4th time asking (Why wont you answer this?)
    Do you engineer lock your panels Altor?


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    #82
    delly
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 7,656 Mod ✭✭✭✭delly


    Thread moved from DIY


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    #83
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,666 ✭✭✭✭altor


    KoolKid wrote: »
    The question I am asking is if a company are willing to unlock the panel for free there is no logical reason not to lock the panel? Yes or No?

    A yes or no answer :D

    You charge to unlock the panel if its not done to suit you, so why should any company be different to you ?

    www.altor.ie



  • Options
    #84
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    altor wrote: »
    A yes or no answer :D

    You charge to unlock the panel if its not done to suit you, so why should any company be different to you ?

    When have I charged?
    what I said was
    If I am not passing and a customer wants it done straight away I would agree with the customer a reasonable call out that they are happy to pay for immidiate service. (This would be a lot less than a standard call out as there is no labour involved). .
    I think thats more than fair.
    I also stated
    I have never come across this as I find people reasonable in this regard.
    To summerise:
    An unlocked panel can be disabled & disarmed in less than a minute
    using this freely available information
    maithulamps wrote: »
    1. The battery is disconnected.
    2. Pull the A.C. input plug (PL1). The alarm starts to ring outside.
    3. Pull the JP1 factory settings plug (equivalent of LK1?)
    4. Reconnect the PL1 A.C. plug. The interal alarm rings.
    5. Go to keypad.
    6. Enter 0 1122.
    An engineer locked panel can be disarmed using methods which are much more specialist & that information is not freely available
    Eliminating the charge to unlock a panel, what logical reason is there to leave a panel unlocked??
    KoolKid wrote: »
    The panel being locked is not forcing any customer to deal with any particualr company.
    Because any company can unlock a panel

    With that in mind I'll ask for the 5th time
    Do you engineer lock your panels Altor??


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    #85
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,666 ✭✭✭✭altor


    KoolKid wrote: »
    When have I charged?
    what I said was

    You have said you charge a reasonable call out that they are happy to pay for immidiate service.
    KoolKid wrote: »
    To summerise:
    An unlocked panel can be disabled & disarmed in less than a minute
    using this freely available information

    To summarize:

    Any alarm system can be disabled if it is engineer locked or not.
    Engineer locking the panel can put added cost on to the customer, as in the OPs case it will cost him to get his panel unlocked so he can do any work on the alarm system he owns and has installed at his premises.

    KoolKid wrote: »
    An engineer locked panel can be disarmed using methods which are much more specialist & that information is not freely available
    Eliminating the charge to unlock a panel, what logical reason is there to leave a panel unlocked??

    Any alarm system can be disabled if it is engineer locked or not so I cant see the point your trying to make.

    www.altor.ie



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    #86
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    altor wrote: »
    You have said you charge a reasonable call out that they are happy to pay for immidiate service.
    I said I would agree a reasonable charge if they wanted an immidiate call out. I also siad I have never had to do this as in the few instances where people have requested the panel to be unlocked they always agreed to be flexible on time.

    altor wrote: »
    Any alarm system can be disabled if it is engineer locked or not.
    Engineer locking the panel can put added cost on to the customer, as in the OPs case it will cost him to get his panel unlocked so he can do any work on the alarm system he owns and has installed at his premises.
    So taking your argument that any panel can be unlocked.....
    What is the purpose of security??
    To make it as difficult as possible for any potential intruder, right?
    Now lets say panel A is not engineer locked....
    This can be disabled & disarmed very easily using the above method with freely available information & no experience required.
    Now Panel B is engineer locked and this method won't work.
    There are other methods , but it requires information that is not freely available & requires a knowledge of the PCB layout & indentifying which is the memory chip etc. Also with surface mount technology this is even more difficult and more time consuming.
    Now which of these panels is more secure?
    IMO here if an Installer is leaving a vunerability like this on a customers security system they should explain the huge risk involved & let the customer decide.
    altor wrote: »
    Any alarm system can be disabled if it is engineer locked or not so I cant see the point your trying to make.
    Based on the information above do you still not see the point??
    Don't bring it back to money....
    Firstly I have already explained the only way I would charge & that would be in agreement with the customer. I have also clearly stated this has never happened so please don't insinuate otherwise.
    Anyway in my opinion, leaving a panel this vunerable for the sake of a payment that me never be required, is crazy.

    So anyway with that in mind, I'll ask for the 6th time
    Do you engineer lock your panels Altor??

    It really seems like you are hiding something by refusing to answer this!!


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    #87
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,666 ✭✭✭✭altor


    KoolKid wrote: »
    I said I would agree a reasonable charge if they wanted an immidiate call out. I also siad I have never had to do this as in the few instances where people have requested the panel to be unlocked they always agreed to be flexible on time.

    The fact of the matter is if the customer wanted it done straight away you would charge as you have said. Whos to say any system you have installed, the customer has not being charged by another company to reset it.
    KoolKid wrote: »
    So taking your argument that any panel can be unlocked.....
    What is the purpose of security??
    To make it as difficult as possible for any potential intruder, right?
    Now lets say panel A is not engineer locked....
    This can be disabled & disarmed very easily using the above method with freely available information & no experience required.
    Now Panel B is engineer locked and this method won't work.
    There are other methods , but it requires information that is not freely available & requires a knowledge of the PCB layout & indentifying which is the memory chip etc. Also with surface mount technology this is even more difficult and more time consuming.
    Now which of these panels is more secure?
    IMO here if an Installer is leaving a vunerability like this on a customers security system they should explain the huge risk involved & let the customer decide.

    Yes it is but having the panel engineer lock does not make it more secure. Any panel can be unlocked by an installer but the point is any alarm system if it is engineer locked or not can be disabled without defaulting the alarm. Nothing to do with the chip either.

    You give 2 scenarios but I will put it to you this way:

    A burglar breaks into house A, disables the alarm system without defaulting the alarm or having to touch the chip. Not engineer locked

    A burglar breaks into house B, disables the alarm system without defaulting the alarm or having to touch the chip. Engineer locked.

    How is either one more secure :confused:

    www.altor.ie



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    #88
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    The simple fact is system A has a huge vulnerability & there is no logical reason
    to leave that there & not inform the customer.
    Going by your logic there is no point in having an alarm..
    It is not the installers decision to make regarding maybe saving the customer a call out which may never happen.

    Altor you are simply trolling now.
    I have on numerous occasions stated its not about money.
    I have on numerous occasions 6 to be precise ,asked you if you lock panels.
    I'm giving you an infraction for trolling.
    Do not post in this thread again unless you are willing to answer whether on not you engineer lock your panel ?
    You cant come on here & be critical of others practices without stating yours.


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    #89
    Jnealon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭Jnealon


    The alarm system should be locked as the information stored on it belongs to the alarm company.
    Any new company taking over an alarm system should really be starting fresh


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    #90
    aabarnes1
    Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭aabarnes1


    I have one of these alarm systems also. Fairly trouble free, apart from the fact that I could not for the life of me figure out how to change the alarm activation code when we moved in last year, anyway that's no the problem. I removed one of those reed/vibration sensors that was attached to the front door frame- along with the magnet on the front door itself, as I am hving a new door fitted in the morning. NowI'm sure the more experienced in you know what's coming next... yes thats right the alarm is now showing 02 zone open- lounge, although why it says lounge when the switch is the front door exit/entry switch. Can anybody help or advise me on what best to do. I am ok with electrics as I repair printers for a living. TIA


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    #91
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Is it showing zone one as well?
    If not its possible the front door & lounge were put on the same zone.
    Do you have engineer access? If so check is zone 2 set up as entry/exit.
    If both 1 & 2 are showing open it would suggest that the front door cable also feeds onto the lounge with another pair.
    Can you describe what connections you disconnected on the front door?
    One or 2 cables? What colours were joined?


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