Ireland's wealth and its young kids

Dudess

I happened to be at the house of a friend's friend over Christmas (she needed to call to her briefly to give her five-year-old son a present and I was with her). Anyway, the house was newly built and she took us for a tour around it. It was like something out of Cribs but what really struck me was that the five-year-old had a walk-in wardrobe and his own enormous en-suite - and not just any old en-suite, but a wet room! He also had a playroom next to his enormous double bedroom, complete with a flat-screen TV, Sky Plus and a DVD player!
His present was a pretty decent toy, but he was just so indifferent to it. I mean he was polite and he thanked her but it was obvious he was so unimpressed. And to be fair to the little fella he wasn't rude, and it really isn't his fault. He's only five and the bar has clearly been set so high that it would take an awful lot to impress him.
It really brought it home to me how there's gonna be a new generation of people who will have no concept of the value of anything, and won't appreciate anything unless it's exceptionally expensive. I don't like to think about how these people will be. Or maybe they'll turn out ok in other respects, just not when it comes to material items.
My generation has had it pretty easy too, but I was a small kid in the 80s so at least I remember when there was far less money in this country, and I have some concept of value.
But so many Celtic Tiger kids - they have absolutely no idea of anything other than insane wealth. And it's quite an unsettling thought.
Or am I wrong?

Guy:Incognito

Theres always been rich people with rich kids.

Oh and seeing as they are getting blamed in every other thread, blody FF making us rich,the cheek of them.

patrickc

yeh its hateful the little pric*ks

my daughter will never be spoiled to that degree

artanevilla

You are right, I reckon I'm lucky cause I missed this generation by a few years. If I even have kids I will strive to ensure that they aren't spoilt (this is probably easier said than done), the parents have to take the most blame, alot are too afraid to put their foots down.

Dudess

Stekelly wrote: »

Theres always been rich people with rich kids.

Oh of course, but it looks like it's becoming particularly widespread in 2008 Ireland. And it's not just the kids of rich people who get anything they want. These are the children of people who are the same age as me and not much older. It seems insane to me, why doesn't it seem insane to them? Maybe a lot of them just end up caving in in order to keep up with the Jones', their kids' schoolmates etc.

Dave!

Dudess wrote: »

I happened to be at the house of a friend's friend over Christmas (she needed to call to her briefly to give her five-year-old son a present and I was with her). Anyway, the house was newly built and she took us for a tour around it. It was like something out of Cribs but what really struck me was that the five-year-old had a walk-in wardrobe and his own enormous en-suite - and not just any old en-suite, but a wet room! He also had a playroom next to his enormous double bedroom, complete with a flat-screen TV, Sky Plus and a DVD player!
His present was a pretty decent toy, but he was just so indifferent to it. I mean he was polite and he thanked her but it was obvious he was so unimpressed. And to be fair to the little fella he wasn't rude, and it really isn't his fault. He's only five and the bar has clearly been set so high that it would take an awful lot to impress him.
It really brought it home to me how there's gonna be a new generation of people who will have no concept of the value of anything, and won't appreciate anything unless it's exceptionally expensive. I don't like to think about how these people will be. Or maybe they'll turn out ok in other respects, just not when it comes to material items.
My generation has had it pretty easy too, but I was a small kid in the 80s so at least I remember when there was far less money in this country, and I have some concept of value.
But so many Celtic Tiger kids - they have absolutely no idea of anything other than insane wealth. And it's quite an unsettling thought.
Or am I wrong?

Well you can take it that that is not the norm. Really rich people have that sort of sh*t, it is by no means a product of the Celtic Tiger. As was mentioned, there's always been rich people and rich kids. I'm sure there's a point to be made in the OP, but using this example to illustrate it does not do it justice. That sounds like aristocracy, it is not a common thing.

Dudess

They're not particularly rich though! Sorry, I should have mentioned that. And I should also have mentioned that I know four other couples who are either in the process of building or have built, and the houses are absolute mammoth things - with completely unnecessary space and rooms. Again, none of these couples are particularly well off. They're doing well enough for themselves but they're certainly not rich.

DonJose

Stekelly wrote: »

blody FF making us rich,the cheek of them.

Theres one thing rich, theres another thing being in debt. Ireland has one of the highest public debt rates per capita in the world. The Irish are not rich, we've just borrowed more money than anybody else.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_deb_ext_percap-economy-debt-external-per-capita

kowloon

They throw hissy fits if they don't get the iphone that their friend gets, its a competition thing and the parents are in on it, trying to outdo the neighbours.

I think it's a living through your kids thing as much as just wealth.

I see friends relatives bringing up their designer clothed children with their American accents and it makes me cringe

leninbenjamin

Stekelly wrote: »

blody FF making us rich,the cheek of them.

FF supporter perhaps? 'cause that's not how it happened.

Dudess

kowloon wrote: »

They throw hissy fits if they don't get the iphone that their friend gets, its a competition thing and the parents are in on it, trying to outdo the neighbours.

I think it's a living through your kids thing as much as just wealth.

I see friends relatives bringing up their designer clothed children with their American accents and it makes me cringe

Yeah, I really don't think the kids can be blamed. But what spinelessness by the parents!

Guy:Incognito

leninbenjamin wrote: »

FF supporter perhaps? 'cause that's not how it happened.

It never is when it's a positive change.

DonJose wrote: »

Theres one thing rich, theres another thing being in debt. Ireland has one of the highest public debt rates per capita in the world. The Irish are not rich, we've just borrowed more money than anybody else.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_deb_ext_percap-economy-debt-external-per-capita

I seriously doubt the type of peoplebeing talked aboutin the OP are the type who borrowed way above their means for what they have.Unless of course we are talking about a 3 bed semi that the 5 year old has the whole upper floor of.

Dave!

Dudess wrote: »

They're not particularly rich though! Sorry, I should have mentioned that. And I should also have mentioned that I know four other couples who are either in the process of building or have built, and the houses are absolute mammoth things - with completely unnecessary space and rooms. Again, none of these couples are particularly well off. They're doing well enough for themselves but they're certainly not rich.

Sounds to me like you're rich too in that case!

leninbenjamin

Stekelly wrote: »

I seriously doubt the type of peoplebeing talked aboutin the OP are the type who borrowed way above their means for what they have.Unless of course we are talking about a 3 bed semi that the 5 year old has the whole upper floor of.

i think the whole lawyer doing the runner incident has perfectly illustrated why you can never fully know who's doing the bulk of the borrowing in this country.

Peared

Yeah Ive noticed this too Dudess. I think the difference between now and 10 or 20 years ago is that its not just rich kids who have a mental amount of stuff and live excessive lifestyles. It seems to be the norm for kids now. And obviously the more they get, the more they expect and the less they appreciate. And your right, its not their faults. Kids will adapt to whatever is around them. I have seen kids whos parents cant be arsed getting them to brush their teeth or giving them lunches for school or even washing their clothes properly but they have the xbox and the wii and a phone for a few hundred quid.

Its hard to see how adult life can offer them the same rewards for simply existing. Methinks a generation of cant be a*sed why should I bother wasters is on the way. I think also this is something that cant be pinned down to one particular section of society, it seems to be prevalent among all the classes (for want of a better word)

kowloon

Dudess wrote: »

Yeah, I really don't think the kids can be blamed. But what spinelessness by the parents!

Don't blame the kids at all, and in a way they're suffering for it.
They go outside less, and when they do all their physical activity is of the regulated competitive variety, the parents then go and hiijack this aswell.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

yeah, you're wrong.

Dudess

DaveMcG wrote: »

Sounds to me like you're rich too in that case!

:mad: I'll have you know I'm from the ghetto and I'm keepin' it real!!

But yeah, this sh*t certainly doesn't seem to be restricted to rich folks. I was in Smyths Toys before Christmas and there were people with TROLLEY-loads of stuff - piled to the point where there was stuff sliding off.

rainbowtrout

kowloon wrote: »

They throw hissy fits if they don't get the iphone that their friend gets, its a competition thing and the parents are in on it, trying to outdo the neighbours.

I think it's a living through your kids thing as much as just wealth.

I see friends relatives bringing up their designer clothed children with their American accents and it makes me cringe

Totally agree, in the school i work in we've brought in a uniform plain tracksuit/polo shirt combo for PE as there was so much competition to have the latest football shirt/nike, adidas tracksuit etc.

I found photos recently of my own school tour (early to mid 90s) and there isn't a branded hoodie/tracksuit/pair of jeans in sight. How things have changed.


If I ever have children, they will not be getting spoiled like some of the brats I see. You can't really blame the kids though, kids will push to get what they want and it's the parents that are funding it all. Even when you look at people now buying houses, how many new houses have you visited and got the tour of where the whole thing hasn't been finished off to the last detail. There's no such thing as saving until you can afford to do up the back bedroom or making do with cheap/secondhand furniture, or painting rooms one by one. Most of it is keeping up with the Jones and instant gratification funded by credit cards or lumping the whole lot into an enormous mortgage. Can't really blame the kids when that's what they're coming from.

oh and the kids speaking with American accents drives me cracked too. i think i'll pack in the job when they start saying 'Awesome!'

biko

Around 330 people are valued at €30 million or higher.

Another 2,970 are valued at between €5m and €30m, while 29,700 are worth between €1m and €5m. That means that around 1% of the population hold 20% of Ireland’s wealth.

beanyb

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I found photos recently of my own school tour (early to mid 90s) and there isn't a branded hoodie/tracksuit/pair of jeans in sight. How things have changed.

Wow, I definitely didnt have that experience. I was in primary school around that time, and branded hoodies/tracksuits and runners in particular were everywhere. If you didnt have a pair of Nike Airmax runners and a pair of Adidas tearaways you were nobody!

I definitely dont think that the situation in the OP is the norm. Yes, there are some people who are completely idiotic with their money, but I still reckon the vast majority of people wouldnt even consider giving that kind of stuff to their 5 year old son.

littlejukka

i got my nephew a digger/dumptruck thing for christmas. he's 2 and has a rake of toys but still goes nuts for anything new, interesting, colourful. if there had been disinterest or indifference to it i would have taken it home to play with the thing mysefl.

leninbenjamin

biko wrote: »

Around 330 people are valued at €30 million or higher.

Another 2,970 are valued at between €5m and €30m, while 29,700 are worth between €1m and €5m. That means that around 1% of the population hold 20% of Ireland’s wealth.

This being Ireland, I'll hazard most of that wealth will be held in property. But property is still devaluing, and becoming increasingly hard to shift. a lot of people aren't as wealthy as they think they are.

Dudess

beanyb wrote: »

I still reckon the vast majority of people wouldnt even consider giving that kind of stuff to their 5 year old son.

What's weird is that they are such a down-to-earth couple and he's not spoilt in any other sense. They are staunch disciplinarians and have manners absolutely drilled into him. And he's a nice kid. It seems he'll turn out ok in other respects but I doubt he'll have ANY concept of the material value of stuff.

Guy:Incognito

Dudess wrote: »

But yeah, this sh*t certainly doesn't seem to be restricted to rich folks. I was in Smyths Toys before Christmas and there were people with TROLLEY-loads of stuff - piled to the point where there was stuff sliding off.

Couple of things about that. 1) do only poor people shop in Smyths? If so,where do rich people buy their toys? 2) there are people with large familes and 3) Big and or multiple things does not nessecarily equal spendign huge sums.

thefinalstage

Pfft! When the next famine/viral outbreak comes along they will all die. We will see twenty year olds screaming "MAMMY!" when they have to get their vaccine injections.

kowloon

I spend less on clothes than my 12yr old niece.

Thing is, i was well off as a child, but parents still didn't feel the need to accessorise their children with expensive crap.

Dudess

kowloon wrote: »

Thing is, i was well off as a child, but parents still didn't feel the need to accessorise their children with expensive crap.

Me too. We weren't what you'd call rich but we were relatively well-off. However my parents were poor growing up so they were damned if they were gonna give us everything we wanted.

thefinalstage

Dudess wrote: »

Me too. We weren't what you'd call rich but we were relatively well-off. However my parents were poor growing up so they were damned if they were gonna give us everything we wanted.

The picture begins to form...

Its such a waste giving the child that kind of stuff, they probably don't even know to turn the stuff on yet! Unless of course it is to watch Post Man Pat.

bongi69

Try being on the front line!
I work in a games shop, in an area not renowned for its wealth, and the period leading up to christmas was mental.
My childhood wasn't that long ago, and already the next generation seems really obsessed with money.
Then again I did grow up a world away from here, in South Africa. For fun we went outside and played football, or rugby, or chasing or numerous other games we imagined up.
Nowadays, you have a games console, designed so that you dont have to go outside and work up a sweat. And of course, evey kid wants it, and the parents wont stop at anything to get it. I was personally threatened by people looking for the Wii, thinking we were just stashing them away for ourselves

thefinalstage

bongi69 wrote: »

Try being on the front line!
I work in a games shop, in an area not renowned for its wealth, and the period leading up to christmas was mental.
My childhood wasn't that long ago, and already the next generation seems really obsessed with money.
Then again I did grow up a world away from here, in South Africa. For fun we went outside and played football, or rugby, or chasing or numerous other games we imagined up.
Nowadays, you have a games console, designed so that you dont have to go outside and work up a sweat. And of course, evey kid wants it, and the parents wont stop at anything to get it. I was personally threatened by people looking for the Wii, thinking we were just stashing them away for ourselves

I've seen that myself. Worthless eejits.

ixoy

Child of the '80s as well and I didn't get everything handed to me either. I remember when I got an Amiga computer in '90 and I had to supplement Santa with my own savings to buy the thing and I was still happy!

Having said that my parent's neighbours would be fairly well off in a nice area of Dublin and they don't spoil their kids. The kids are well behaved and quite sweet (10 and 11 I think) and were eager to show their toys to us without being annoying about it - there is hope for the generation.

What confuses me Dudess is how your friends aren't wealthy but are able to build massive houses when anyone I know (and I think we're around the same age here) could barely afford to buy a two-bed in the back of beyond.. Admit it, you're wallowing in cash

bongi69

ixoy wrote: »

Child of the '80s as well and I didn't get everything
What confuses me Dudess is how your friends aren't wealthy but are able to build massive houses when anyone I know (and I think we're around the same age here) could barely afford to buy a two-bed in the back of beyond.. Admit it, you're wallowing in cash

Its not their money. Its the banks money

The rich just keep getting richer, their kids more spoilt, turning into little brats and becoming more big headed than their parents. It just amazes me how coming into money can turn people into right pricks that have such a high opinion of themselves. I've first hand experience of this, a relation came into money years ago and ever since he's just a big head, you'd would literally have to pay him to get the time of day off him, only time you would see him would be at a funeral were he thinks he will be in the will.

More and more people in this country catching the "Yuppie Syndrome" is a joke, trying to out do there neighbours and want the "look at me" attention from others. They are that far into their own wee world that they fail to see that the majority of people don't car or are just laughing at them.
Why has this trend developed, are people that unhappy

You only have to look around housing estates around the country, in picticular the afforable housing estates where you will never own the house and pay cheap rent, here you will find different classes of yuppies, the one's that pump thousands upon thousands into a house they will never own;

1. The family that's come into money and just want to show off or compete with the neighbour next door, it's starts with the car, then the garden, onto the house and then the attitude where the nose goes up at everyone else.
2. Then there's the so called single mother with no money that turns up for the interview for the house either on foot or a banger of a car. When they get the house and on move all of a sudden the car turns into a brand new one, usually the pay half now and rest next year or the typical cheap (not a landrover, they can't afford that) school run jeep. 9/10 turns out that they are recently split up and have got a mountain of money from the split ie. sale of a house.
3. Then you have the complete wanna be SSIA yuppie family that are just show-offs and stuck up from day one. These are usually a family that have sold there house and pretend poverty to get the afforable house. On move in 9/10 all of the money they made from the sale of their previous house gose into ripping the house apart and redoing it into a palace. All of the above mentioned follow too, from car to garden and the famous wood decking :rolleyes:

It's awful to see this going on everywhere, people that clearly don't need a house and given one, sometimes in the space of a matter of weeks and the person that has been on the housing list for years just told there is none. Again this is just a case of the rich looking after the rich via contacts and lies.

You can't really blame the young rich or yuppie children, to them in most cases it just seems to be the norm and the way things work.
As for the normal Joe that wants to play big shoot via borrowed money or selling his home and moving into a rented one is just baffling and stupid, these will be the ones hit first when the country goes under, it's already starting.

My opinion is that the SSIA scheme triggered all this off.

bongi69

hellboy99 wrote: »

My opinion is that the SSIA scheme triggered all this off.

That and the fact that consumer credit has been made easier to take out. Sure to get a car loan, I didn't once speak to anybody. It was all online. And i've witnessed people buying things on Hire Purchase, in Currys etc, just for the heck of it. So at then end of the month, when all your money has gone to pay the loans, you turn to the credit card for your groceries, and the vicious cycle begins.
My motto: If you dont have the cash, hard luck!

bongi69

bongi69 wrote: »

That and the fact that consumer credit has been made easier to take out. Sure to get a car loan, I didn't once speak to anybody. It was all online. And i've witnessed people buying things on Hire Purchase, in Currys etc, just for the heck of it. So at then end of the month, when all your money has gone to pay the loans, you turn to the credit card for your groceries, and the vicious cycle begins.

It's all too easy to get credit, the amount of people I seen this Xmas going for HP was just mad. The whole loan, HP and credit card hand outs are set to change this year.

bongi69 wrote: »

My motto: If you dont have the cash, hard luck!

Very true.

Intothesea

This kind of stuff makes me wonder where we're
going. As someone doing shift-work between
Ireland and the US, I can see some new and
negative parallels cropping up, like the seeming
obsession with acquiring material things. My take
on this is that we have convinced ourselves,
via our inflated house market, correspondingly
increased paychecks and influx of non-nationals,
that we're 'on the pig's back' -- finally escaping
the oppressive effects of being broke and
isolated. Being flush, or feeling like it, gives us
the chance to escape our scarred identities
(poor and helpless) and make out that we are
recovered, only that in our typical way our
intensity insists that we throw out not just
the poorness, but the accent, the humility and
the social concern. That is, the baby with
the bathwater.

I expect and hope that sanity will prevail
in the end. There's no reason we can't be
successful and generally well-off, it'll just
take time to find a comfortable mid-point.

/0.02

Dudess

Dudess wrote: »

What's weird is that they are such a down-to-earth couple and he's not spoilt in any other sense. They are staunch disciplinarians and have manners absolutely drilled into him. And he's a nice kid. It seems he'll turn out ok in other respects but I doubt he'll have ANY concept of the material value of stuff.

If you really feel the need to judge these peoples parenting skills, then I think you'll do well to base it on the above observations.

All the people I see who have no value on money, grew up with next to nothing like the rest of us.

Personally I think it is shows good common sense to build a decent sized bedroom with good storage and easily cleaned washing facilities.
Five year olds don't stay five forever.

Moonbaby

Moonbaby wrote: »

All the people I see who have no value on money, grew up with next to nothing like the rest of us.

I was raised durning hard times and my family wasn't well off like others, I for one have a value on money and don't waste it. I worked hard to get where I am today, I'm not rich but have a comfortable life were I make enough money to get by, pay the bills and look after my family and I'm happy at that.

Kernel

Peared wrote: »

Its hard to see how adult life can offer them the same rewards for simply existing.

Social welfare. It's a deal, it's a steal, it's sale of the ****ing century!

amacachi

biko wrote: »

Around 330 people are valued at €30 million or higher.

Another 2,970 are valued at between €5m and €30m, while 29,700 are worth between €1m and €5m. That means that around 1% of the population hold 20% of Ireland’s wealth.

Never understood we why never tried communism, seemed to work for Russia.

cuppa

yea i think dudess is really well of and her mates are verry well off :cool:

dRNk SAnTA

Would everyone stop patting themselves on the back!

For god sake, every generation have had it better than the one before. All these "I didn't have a playstation, so I know the value of a euro" statements are such crap. From my experience, the difference between a child being raised well and being raised badly has nothing to do with how wealthy the family is.

Kernel

amacachi wrote: »

Never understood we why never tried communism, seemed to work for Russia.

It will come out in it's true form in the future. When corporate capitalism collapses. As an added bonus, a high proportion of the worlds population will no longer starve to death so we can drink cheap coffee and drive nice cars etc.

Dudess

Dudess wrote: »

But yeah, this sh*t certainly doesn't seem to be restricted to rich folks. I was in Smyths Toys before Christmas and there were people with TROLLEY-loads of stuff - piled to the point where there was stuff sliding off.

Could of been buying for a Santa's grotto, work related kids Xmas party or for charity.

the_syco

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Totally agree, in the school i work in we've brought in a uniform plain tracksuit/polo shirt combo for PE as there was so much competition to have the latest football shirt/nike, adidas tracksuit etc.

I found photos recently of my own school tour (early to mid 90s) and there isn't a branded hoodie/tracksuit/pair of jeans in sight. How things have changed.

Finished secondary just before they brought in a rule that all jackets must be the same, as people were stealing the "best" jackets. A bit mad.

Stekelly wrote: »

do only poor people shop in Smyths? If so,where do rich people buy their toys?

Heard a rich person once said: some people stay rich because they keep working, others stay rich as they don't pay more than you should.

The Xbox360 will be the same if bought on the High Street or the Low Street, but the price may differ by €10 or €30 and the tenners can approach a few hundred after everything is bought.

For example, if the dude does his bathroom up, and puts down decking, for sweet f**k all, the neighbour, not wanting to be outdone, will get someone in to do the decking, and pay through the nose for it

dRNk SAnTA

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

Would everyone stop patting themselves on the back!

For god sake, every generation have had it better than the one before. All these "I didn't have a playstation, so I know the value of a euro" statements are such crap. From my experience, the difference between a child being raised well and being raised badly has nothing to do with how wealthy the family is.

No one is patting themselves or saying I'm better than someone else.

I'm not perfect but I'm not stupid with money and obsessed with wanting to have everything I see, be it by means of cash or credit. When I was young I was thought the value of money and have gone onto do the same with my own.
I agree with what you say that being raised well or good has nothing to do with how wealthy your family is, but if you raise a child in a rich enviroment where he or she gets whatever they want no matter the cost is not healthy.

DublinWriter

Intothesea wrote: »

This kind of stuff makes me wonder where we're
going. As someone doing shift-work between Ireland and the US, I can see some new and negative parallels cropping up

My own theory is that if you want to see what Ireland will be like in 20 years time then just look at America now.

Some American friends hold me that what is happening in Ireland now is very like what was happening over there in the mid-80's - money was cheap and it was all spend now, worry about it tomorrow.

Then the banks decided the party was over as inflation and interest rates escalated in the late 80's.

People in Ireland now have *massive* amounts of personal debt and that's even before the mortgage or car loan.

I know every generation moans about 'kids today', but I think we really are creating a rod for our backs in the future with the current crop. I was in Blanch the other day and I couldn't believe the number of fat-kids I saw. Every other kid was obese. Forget all that anti-smoking malarkey, the amount of people who will contract diabetes and other weight related diseases will cripple the Health System in the years to come.

I also observed one particular little princess holding onto the rails in Smyths Toy Store as her mother had to practically prise her out of the shop. Good on the mother for holding out you might think, but I overheard her say "the queue is too long! we'll come back in an hour darling".

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Intothesea

DublinWriter wrote: »

My own theory is that if you want to see what Ireland will be like in 20 years time then just look at America now.

Good points well made. I'm inclined to believe/hope
that Ireland can never rival America in a positive
or negative sense, for the reason that we cannot
sustain the attitudes/behaviours of a country that
is our cultural inverse (not Western values but ethos,
e.g. America = opportunist, pro-active; Ireland = Cute
Hoor (negative opportunism), passive).

I accept that fundamental values are being eroded
by prevailing attitude towards cash. I don't doubt
that the Health Service will be less effective groaning
under the weight of reckless drinkers, smokers and
over-eaters, though I feel it might constitute a lesson
for us in the way that it doesn't seem to for
350 million-odd loosely-bound individuals.

These are my thoughts based on imaginative projection
anyway. I can only hope they're true and speak out
against the loss in whatever way I can (not unlike
yourself).

/0.02

FlutterinBantam

amacachi wrote: »

Never understood we why never tried communism, seemed to work for Russia.

Indeed it did,everybody was the same,no poverty,no unemployment,everyone had a house and everyone was miserable:cool: