Man dies in Garda custody

TheNog

I agree TW was not the innocent his supporters were making him out to be.

The recent death in garda custody may not be made out to be but only time will tell

seamus

Stark wrote: »

2:30am on New Year's Eve. Guy was probably too locked to realise he was out in the middle of the road and the patrol car was probably in a rush to get to some incident.

Indeed, I was driving through Harold's Cross around 3am last night, tax in front of me. Guy walking down the path on my side of the road, back to us, sees a taxi coming towards him, sticks his arm out and stands into the middle of the road, keeping his back to us. Taxi in front of me had to screech to a halt. He sat on the horn, but the guy only turned around about 10 seconds after he would have been dead.

I think it's fair to say that being hit by a Garda car late on New Year's is unlikely to be the Garda's fault...

I agree TW was not the innocent his supporters were making him out to be.

Terence Wheelock was your average piece of scum. All reports thus far confirm that he killed himself. Upsetting for the family, but there's far too much airtime being given to a small time piece of ****'s demise.

Sully

utick wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0101/rta.html

another garda incident last night

Left the pub at 2AM last night and was waiting for a taxi for a good half hour. I see young girls out on the road taking a "leak", then vomiting, then crying and vomiting again. So locked, she doesnt know whats going on.

Next I see people so drunk there jumping out in front of cars hoping its a taxi and they will get a lift. Some very VERY close encounters - they even did it to an unmarked squad car.

So, I can see this happens. Plus, the guards were flying around the place last night as there was a lot of people arrested for drink driving. There watching people get into cars around clubs/pubs - its becoming a lot more frequent.

However, whats sad is the guards (at least in the City, they do it in my hometown) are there in large numbers and dont even attempt to clear people of the road. There not busy, there just chatting to each other, or chatting to fellow drunk people having a bag of chips. Meanwhile, crowds spilling out on a busy junction in front of taxis and other passerbys.

Sully

seamus wrote: »

Terence Wheelock was your average piece of scum. All reports thus far confirm that he killed himself. Upsetting for the family, but there's far too much airtime being given to a small time piece of ****'s demise.

Looking at the wikipedia article - I think its safe to say its very suspicous and does seem like something is being covered up. Questions remain unanswered.

seamus

Sully wrote: »

Looking at the wikipedia article - I think its safe to say its very suspicous and does seem like something is being covered up. Questions remain unanswered.

To be fair, it's even noted on wikipedia that they're not happy about the neutraility of the article. The first few pages of a google are links to sites with known or obvious anti-Garda/anti-establishment agendas such as indymedia. As you would expect, there's nobody giving information in a subjective manner.

That a jury found suicide as the cause of death is sufficiently open and subjective a decision for me.

Stark

Sully wrote:

However, whats sad is the guards (at least in the City, they do it in my hometown) are there in large numbers and dont even attempt to clear people of the road. There not busy, there just chatting to each other, or chatting to fellow drunk people having a bag of chips. Meanwhile, crowds spilling out on a busy junction in front of taxis and other passerbys.

It's probably safer leaving them there and having the traffic slowed to a crawl than keeping them on the footpath where they'll jump out into moving traffic at a second's notice.

Was walking through Drumcondra at about 9PM a few weeks ago and noticed a group of twenty-something year old girls who thought it was hillarious fun altogether to run out into the traffic on the N1 causing cars to screech to a halt, then run back to the footpath then do it again about 30 seconds later.

eroo

Stekelly wrote: »

I'm all for legitimate Garda beatingvans being deployed. If judges arent goingto uphold the law then the law should be changed to allow the gard sto do it on the streets. The current pc ,softly, soflty version of policing doesnt work.

"Please come into custody Mr scumbag , drug dealing murderer" . "**** you pig, I'm going to try kick the crap out of you and as many of your collegues on the way to being dragged into custody as I can and if I'm so mu8ch as bruised I'll scream rape, and either way I'll be back on the streets in a couple of days"

If Gardai were allowed kick the **** out of you then they would be no better than vigilantes.That would be a break down in law and order leading to basic mob rule...a breakdown of justice..Also,if Gardai were allowed to kick the **** out of people,they'd be no better than paramilitaries..and what sort of recruits would you be attracting then?

I know for a fact I don't plan on joining the Gards so I can kick the **** out of people,I'm not that sort of person,and I'd imagine current Gardai are the same.

Jay D

seamus wrote: »

To be fair, it's even noted on wikipedia that they're not happy about the neutraility of the article. bla bla bla bla bla bla.


That a jury found suicide as the cause of death is sufficiently open and subjective a decision for me.

The following few details really make me hate stupid people in society who will believe evrything they are told. Complete and absolute scum who feel it is up to them to accept brutality as ok when it's done to others. I suppose some people are just delusional on one hand and full of shi-t on the other.


Inconsistencies and Matters Arising

As per normal procedure Terence should have been checked in his ‘suicide proof’ cell on a regular basis. According to the station records ten minutes before he was found unconscious his cell was inspected and it was noted that he was asleep. The Gardaí claim that in the next ten minutes he woke up, broke away the concrete around a light switch which was about two and a half feet off the ground with his bare hands and then hanged himself. The ambulance was called about 9 minutes after Terence was supposedly found in his cell. There is no explanation over what caused this delay. Likewise no one has explained why when the ambulance arrived Terence was found in a hall close to the main desk of the station and not in his cell.
Gardaí called to the Wheelock house, informed Terence’s mother Esther that her son had hanged himself and was in the southside St. James’ Hospital. These Gardaí then drove her to St. James’. They claimed not to know the direction to get there and Esther actually had to direct them. Terence had actually been brought to the much closer Mater Hospital. By the time his family had found this out and arrived in the Mater his clothing had been taken away by Gardaí.
The Garda press statement mentioned that there was no evidence of any bruising on Terence’s body which is completely contradicted by his family who saw him in the hospital, and by hospital photographs. When the family managed to get hold of the custody records the names of the arresting Gardaí had been removed. The Wheelock family have made many attempts to recover Terence’s clothes for independent forensic examination. These attempts have been continually rebuffed by the Dept of Justice.
The family’s calls for an independent investigation have been refused and instead of this the garda commissioner has appointed Detective Superintendent Oliver Hanley from Dun Laoghaire Garda Station to look into the events around Terence’s death. Hanley served in Store Street station for over fifteen years and as the family have pointed out this makes him far from independent.

WhiteWashMan

OMFG!

to the conspiracy cave, Batman!

Jay D

:rolleyes:

ya see the thing is, they are actual facts. so while a sickening amount of people are all quick to jump up and defend an organisation that is 'never guilty' on the basis of trust alone, what is said to actual facts, let me just repeat it for those glancing and typing anything in reply - facts, honest true and genuine facts that clearly make the 'official Garda report' look like a pack of lies and covering up?

Guy:Incognito

Jay D wrote: »

The following few details really make me hate stupid people in society who will believe evrything they are told. Complete and absolute scum who feel it is up to them to accept brutality as ok when it's done to others. I suppose some people are just delusional on one hand and full of shi-t on the other.


Inconsistencies and Matters Arising

As per normal procedure Terence should have been checked in his ‘suicide proof’ cell on a regular basis. According to the station records ten minutes before he was found unconscious his cell was inspected and it was noted that he was asleep. The Gardaí claim that in the next ten minutes he woke up, broke away the concrete around a light switch which was about two and a half feet off the ground with his bare hands and then hanged himself. The ambulance was called about 9 minutes after Terence was supposedly found in his cell. There is no explanation over what caused this delay. Likewise no one has explained why when the ambulance arrived Terence was found in a hall close to the main desk of the station and not in his cell.
Gardaí called to the Wheelock house, informed Terence’s mother Esther that her son had hanged himself and was in the southside St. James’ Hospital. These Gardaí then drove her to St. James’. They claimed not to know the direction to get there and Esther actually had to direct them. Terence had actually been brought to the much closer Mater Hospital. By the time his family had found this out and arrived in the Mater his clothing had been taken away by Gardaí.
The Garda press statement mentioned that there was no evidence of any bruising on Terence’s body which is completely contradicted by his family who saw him in the hospital, and by hospital photographs. When the family managed to get hold of the custody records the names of the arresting Gardaí had been removed. The Wheelock family have made many attempts to recover Terence’s clothes for independent forensic examination. These attempts have been continually rebuffed by the Dept of Justice.
The family’s calls for an independent investigation have been refused and instead of this the garda commissioner has appointed Detective Superintendent Oliver Hanley from Dun Laoghaire Garda Station to look into the events around Terence’s death. Hanley served in Store Street station for over fifteen years and as the family have pointed out this makes him far from independent.

All sounds above board to me.

Moral of the story? Dont be out stealing cars.

Jay D

Stekelly wrote: »

All sounds above board to me.

Moral of the story? Dont be out stealing cars.

you sound very intelligent.

Guy:Incognito

Jay D wrote: »

you sound very intelligent.

Thanks.

I'll be sure to put my posts in rant form in future.

Jay D

point taken and agknowledged but that taken away, the point still stands.

Kernel

keen wrote: »

What are you on about?

Oh OK, I'll spell it out... you're talking ****e you've no idea about.

Kernel

Jay D wrote: »

point taken and agknowledged but that taken away, the point still stands.

I think you have your own agenda against guards JD. You've shown it in the past, and are desperately dragging the wheelock incident into this thread to shore up your shakey as shít accusation about the guards killing a druggie in custody. :cool:

bobnalong

Pigman II wrote: »

Imagine! Beating the shít out of a guy who shot a cop in the face! It's just not not on.

I agree the man should be given a medal!

IRLConor

That Wikipedia article looks a bit dodgy to me. The "Inconsistencies and Matters Arising" appears to have been entirely brought in from a website which is far from neutral on the matter. I am not saying that they're lying, but there's a lack of proper citations and cross-referencing and it is an anarchist website which means they're already biased against the Gardai as a matter of principle. Does anyone have a link to the transcript or official ruling of the Coroner's Court? The least we can do is improve the quality of the Wikipedia article.

The Dublin City Coroner's Court is an independent organisation and the Wheelock inquest was held with a jury. If anyone wishes to believe that the Coroner (who is not a Garda) AND the jury were in league with the Gardai to cover up a murder then fair enough, but I'd call that paranoia.

It is only fair to give the Gardai the same treatment as everybody else. They are innocent unless (not "until" as many people say :rolleyes:) proven otherwise by a court. In the Wheelock case, the appropriate court found that the death was not their fault.

seamus

Jay D wrote: »

Inconsistencies and Matters Arising
bla bla bla

That's not evidence. It's hearsay and conjecture completely unsupported by any reference material or reports.

This is the thing about anarchists and anti-establishmentists. Anything whatsoever which shows the establishment in a bad light is taken as gospel.

I don't believe that every Garda involved has been truthful in the matter, but I'm satisfied given all the evidence that the guy killed himself and no-one else did. And the state and its citizens (represented by a jury) agree with me.

Dyr

Thankfully we have a garda ombudsman now, so the old "after thoroughly investigating ourselves we found we did nothing wrong, wink, wink" days ala beating false confessions out of innocent people might be coming to a close.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Bambi wrote: »

Thankfully we have a garda ombudsman now, so the old "after thoroughly investigating ourselves we found we did nothing wrong, wink, wink" days ala beating false confessions out of innocent people might be coming to a close.

If they confessed then they weren't innocent

A stupid thread btw, but one for the post count

Dyr

The pardon nicky kelly got would suggest he was innocent.

Dragan

keen wrote: »

Speak to the people who work for the ambulance service who treat the "scumbags" after the beatings have been dished out and you would soon realise that the beatings still go on.

Ah yes, sure the streets are littered with bodies heaped from the back of cop cars in the dark hours.

I wouldn't always believe the stories of people getting beaten up by cops.....don't you know you can't just lose a fight, you lose a fight to 10 guys and a dog....and if you can get beaten by the cops? Much better story altogether!

keen

Dragan wrote: »

Ah yes, sure the streets are littered with bodies heaped from the back of cop cars in the dark hours.

I wouldn't always believe the stories of people getting beaten up by cops.....

Either would I.

But to say that Garda beatings don't go at all anymore is a lie, there's bad apples in every barrel the Gardai are no different.

Kernel wrote: »

Oh OK, I'll spell it out... you're talking ****e you've no idea about.

At least make a vaild point instead of dismissing what I say as ****e.

Stark

You know if you fold the old £5 note twenty ways, you get the face of Terence Wheelock? That's why they had to decommission it.

event

Jay D wrote: »

:rolleyes:

ya see the thing is, they are actual facts.

from where?

what is the link you got them from?

RobbieTheRobber

another garda complaint post

Teenager dies after collision with Garda patrol car
01/01/2008 - 19:03:39
A 19-year-old man who was hit by a garda patrol car in Tallaght overnight has died in hospital.

http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/mheycwgbcwql/

It doesn't say it in this story but it was on the radio report the garda car was not involved in pursuit or heading towards a crime at the time either

And I bet this one will be ever so quietly dealt with by the ombudsman and the driver will never see the dangerous driving causing death charges that are due

Sleepy

Another dead scumbag?

Victory for society tbh.

RobbieTheRobber

Sleepy wrote: »

Another dead scumbag?

Victory for society tbh.

what?

where does it say he was a scumbag they could be outstanding warrants for traffic offences or non payments of fines hardly a master criminal and murderer jumping to conclusions are you :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Mizu_Ger

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

another garda complaint post



http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/mheycwgbcwql/

It doesn't say it in this story but it was on the radio report the garda car was not involved in pursuit or heading towards a crime at the time either

And I bet this one will be ever so quietly dealt with by the ombudsman and the driver will never see the dangerous driving causing death charges that are due

This thread makes the Gards sound like the droogs from A Clockwork Orange (except I am fairly sure they haven't bashed any old women to death with porcelain dildos!).

A woman was killed in a car crash in Offaly this morning. Neither of those cars were in a prsuit or heading towards a crime scene when it happened. Accidents actually happen! Why can't people wait for the facts to come out before discussing it?