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Man dies in Garda custody

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    #2
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    Jay D wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1230/terenure.html


    scum bags

    plain and simple

    How do you know it was their fault? Don't jump to conclusions.

    Maybe he died of alcohol/drugs complications.
    Maybe he killed himself.
    Maybe they beat the s**** out of him and he died of his injuries.
    Maybe he died of natural causes.
    Maybe he died of injuries inflicted by a third party and sustained before his arrest.

    Do you have information we don't? If you don't then I'd say don't point fingers until the Coroner/Ombudsman releases more information.


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    #3
    Kintarō Hattori
    Registered Users Posts: 14,965 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    Jay D wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1230/terenure.html


    scum bags

    plain and simple

    I absolutely agree with the other poster. How can you jump to the conclusion that its the guards fault. Assumptions are terrible things.


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    #4
    Jay D
    Registered Users Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Jay D


    IRLConor wrote: »
    How do you know it was their fault? Don't jump to conclusions.

    Maybe he died of alcohol/drugs complications.
    Maybe he killed himself.
    Maybe they beat the s**** out of him and he died of his injuries.
    Maybe he died of natural causes.
    Maybe he died of injuries inflicted by a third party and sustained before his arrest.

    Do you have information we don't? If you don't then I'd say don't point fingers until the Coroner/Ombudsman releases more information.

    or maybe any such proof of him actually being beaten by those pigs in custody will not mean a thing when we consider the likes of Terrance Wheelock who was in good health, not a thing wrong with him when going to custody, he was never depressed about such meetings, certainly nowhere near suicidal, yet the outcome....

    While I have no evidence whatsoever (let's bear in mind that any evidence will be well covered up) I certainly feel entitled to make such a conclusion, given that any investigation yet to take place regarding such incidents is flawed with corruption.

    While people like you would be happy living in Disneyland when it comes to reality, I for one, would certainly take a more critical approach and see them for what they are.


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    #5
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Jay D wrote: »
    I for one, would certainly take a more critical approach and see them for what they are.

    you are quite entitled to make a critical approach but most intelligent people would wait until the investigation or at least till all information is made public before making any type of critical analysis of a situation.

    You are simply jumping to conclusions


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    #6
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Jay D wrote: »
    given that any investigation yet to take place regarding such incidents is flawed with corruption.

    If you have evidence of corruption, then lay it for us to see. Or is it a case of you presuming there is corruption?

    If the prisoner was anyway maltreated in custody then Ombudsman will find the evidence and investigate it. It is their job and it has been seen in the past that the ombudsman is eager in doing their job.


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    #7
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    Jay D wrote: »
    or maybe any such proof of him actually being beaten by those pigs in custody will not mean a thing when we consider the likes of Terrance Wheelock who was in good health, not a thing wrong with him when going to custody, he was never depressed about such meetings, certainly nowhere near suicidal, yet the outcome....

    Just because it has happened in the past doesn't mean the entire force condones that sort of behavior never mind takes part in it.
    Jay D wrote: »
    While I have no evidence whatsoever (let's bear in mind that any evidence will be well covered up) I certainly feel entitled to make such a conclusion, given that any investigation yet to take place regarding such incidents is flawed with corruption.
    • You have no evidence.
    • You assume without evidence that any investigation will be corrupt.

    and yet you still think it fair to smear the Gardai?

    You don't like them and a small selection of them have done bad things in the past so you assume they're all evil. Damn, I thought I was a cynical pessimist!
    Jay D wrote: »
    While people like you would be happy living in Disneyland when it comes to reality, I for one, would certainly take a more critical approach and see them for what they are.

    I don't think I live in Disneyland. I've dealt with the Gardai plenty of times and they have (by and large) been helpful. My main gripe with them is that they need to have higher intelligence standards for entry and more education when they're in. Most members of the force at the rank of Sgt and above have been excellent in my experience but the bottom-of-the-rung Garda has been a mixed bag. None of the Gardai at any rank that I have dealt with have been the kind of violent thug that would beat someone to death in custody nor would they condone it.

    In the case you linked to, the post-mortem will be carried out by people who are not Gardai and have no motivation to cover up for them. That post-mortem will be overseen by the Garda Ombudsman who also has no motivation to cover up for the Gardai. You'd need black helicopter levels of paranoia and distrust in the system to believe that the truth won't come out.


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    #8
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Posts split from Cowboy Garda thread so that this topic won't lock that thread when it's inevitably taken too far.


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    #9
    pid()
    Closed Accounts Posts: 669 ✭✭✭pid()


    Assume makes an ASS out of U and ME. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


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    #10
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    The days of the gardai giving serious scumbags serious hidings is gone. The scumbags know it and the gardai know it. The scumbags are becomming less afraid of the gards as a result.

    In this case and we can only assume that...

    This fella prob drank so much prior to his arrest combined with drugs or swallowed a heap of pills on being arrested or cheeked his gear after his arrest (shoved his stash up his arse) and died of an overdose.

    Its not a weekend away at a hotel he was in, he was a criminal and a deprived individual in garda custody whos life just ran out!

    Its not a nice world we live in and im surpised that from the 250+ people that end up in garda custody every day more dont die in the cells. When hospitals and ambulances wont take people the only place for them is a garda cell.


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    #11
    eroo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭eroo


    OP,do you know the circumstances of his arrest?Was he drunk/high?We all know how drugs can kill quite easily.
    Also,you have no evidence whatsoever to substantiate your claims of corruption and maltreatment.Your just another Garda basher,and have no doubts about the Garda Ombudsman,they will investigate it thouroughly.In fact,they are curently investigating Terence Wheelock's death.The GOC is made up of former police officers from England,Canada,South Africa and so on..so there will be no ''cover-ups'' as you would have us believe.Also,Gardai do not cover up for corrupt colleagues..they are police officers,the vast majority of Gardai are good people..Donegal was a long time ago..things have changed


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    #12
    Cantab.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭Cantab.


    It won't be long before the boys in blue start doing things like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXolf463YbM


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    #13
    keen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 987 ✭✭✭keen


    Chief--- wrote: »
    The days of the gardai giving serious scumbags serious hidings is gone.

    What makes you think there gone?

    Speak to the people who work for the ambulance service who treat the "scumbags" after the beatings have been dished out and you would soon realise that the beatings still go on.


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    #14
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Cantab. wrote: »
    It won't be long before the boys in blue start doing things like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXolf463YbM

    Or this
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db2mgzC8f44
    :eek::eek::eek:


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    #15
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    keen wrote: »
    What makes you think there gone?

    Speak to the people who work for the ambulance service who treat the "scumbags" after the beatings have been dished out and you would soon realise that the beatings still go on.

    Yeah im on about serious beatings that went on in the 80's and 90's when criminals were afraid of the gardai. You knew back then if you headbutted a garda or were caught after ramming a stolen car into a garda car you were in line for a serious hiding.

    Im not on about injuries that people receive nowadays during a violent arrest. Police are allowed use force you know up to and including lethal force depending on the situation.


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    #16
    keen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 987 ✭✭✭keen


    Chief--- wrote: »
    Yeah im on about serious beatings that went on in the 80's and 90's when criminals were afraid of the gardai. You knew back then if you headbutted a garda or were caught after ramming a stolen car into a garda car you were in line for a serious hiding.

    Im not on about injuries that people receive nowadays during a violent arrest. Police are allowed use force you know up to and including lethal force depending on the situation.

    The Garda aren't dishing out clips around the ear these days, beatings still go and good beatings at that.

    Of course the Garda are entitled to use force when arresting people that fight back. Beatings is a seperate topic and that's what I thought we were talking about.


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    #17
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    I expect it'll turn out he's either taken drugs or had an underlying medical condition. Young/ish men dropping dead from heart failure is'nt a shock these days.

    Jay Ds insight is curious.

    Mike.


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    #18
    utick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 562 ✭✭✭utick


    to be honest i feel like the general public would be better served if gardai were dishing out justice and just leave the judges out of the process, they just cost too much money and are too soft on criminals


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    #19
    keen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 987 ✭✭✭keen


    utick wrote: »
    to be honest i feel like the general public would be better served if gardai were dishing out justice and just leave the judges out of the process, they just cost too much money and are too soft on criminals

    Don't be silly that would never work.


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    #20
    Pigman II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,921 ✭✭✭✭Pigman II


    Cantab. wrote: »
    It won't be long before the boys in blue start doing things like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXolf463YbM

    Imagine! Beating the shít out of a guy who shot a cop in the face! It's just not not on.


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    #21
    Kernel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    keen wrote: »
    Speak to the people who work for the ambulance service who treat the "scumbags" after the beatings have been dished out and you would soon realise that the beatings still go on.

    We would if we could find any... apart from the ones in Neverneverland you speak of.


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    #22
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Cantab. wrote: »
    It won't be long before the boys in blue start doing things like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXolf463YbM

    Well the commentator did say he jumped out of a 3rd floor window after shooting the cop. Maybe that's how he injured his face!!

    Maybe that's why the FBI cleared the cops of any wrong doing. Tbh the presenter doesn't go into the details of the FBI investigation and maybe that's just to dramatise the story for bigger ratings.

    Or maybe the cops did beat the sh*te out him but wouldn't there have been CCTV of his arrest or witnesses to say he looked okay on his arrest?


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    #23
    minidazzler
    Registered Users Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    Cantab. wrote: »
    It won't be long before the boys in blue start doing things like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXolf463YbM

    He shot a cop in the face he deserved worse than what he got. That little bastard could have shot the cop in the leg but he chose the face he deserves worse and so does anyone who thiinks what happened to him was unfair.


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    #24
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    minidazzler wrote: »
    He shot a cop in the face he deserved worse than what he got. That little bastard could have shot the cop in the leg but he chose the face he deserves worse and so does anyone who thiinks what happened to him was unfair.

    yeah but did you see the cop's hair cut. Maybe the perp was a barber with a bad shot?


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    #25
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Jay D wrote: »

    scum bag

    plain and simple


    I agree. Afterall, he had a number of outstanding warrants.


    Cantab. wrote: »
    It won't be long before the boys in blue start doing things like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXolf463YbM

    The sooner the better. Could he have been a bigger scumbag?


    I'm all for legitimate Garda beatingvans being deployed. If judges arent goingto uphold the law then the law should be changed to allow the gard sto do it on the streets. The current pc ,softly, soflty version of policing doesnt work.

    "Please come into custody Mr scumbag , drug dealing murderer" . "**** you pig, I'm going to try kick the crap out of you and as many of your collegues on the way to being dragged into custody as I can and if I'm so mu8ch as bruised I'll scream rape, and either way I'll be back on the streets in a couple of days"


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    #26
    utick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 562 ✭✭✭utick


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0101/rta.html

    another garda incident last night


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    #27
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,895 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Cantab. wrote: »
    It won't be long before the boys in blue start doing things like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXolf463YbM

    If you're trying to get people to sympathise with a cop-shooting scumbag then maybe you should try Indymedia instead.
    utick wrote:
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0101/rta.html

    another garda incident last night

    2:30am on New Year's Eve. Guy was probably too locked to realise he was out in the middle of the road and the patrol car was probably in a rush to get to some incident.


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    #28
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Jay D wrote: »
    or maybe any such proof of him actually being beaten by those pigs in custody will not mean a thing when we consider the likes of Terrance Wheelock who was in good health, not a thing wrong with him when going to custody, he was never depressed about such meetings, certainly nowhere near suicidal, yet the outcome....

    While I have no evidence whatsoever (let's bear in mind that any evidence will be well covered up) I certainly feel entitled to make such a conclusion, given that any investigation yet to take place regarding such incidents is flawed with corruption.

    While people like you would be happy living in Disneyland when it comes to reality, I for one, would certainly take a more critical approach and see them for what they are.

    So therefore, ANYONE dies in Garda custody, you're going to assume that it was from police brutality. Nice logic.
    utick wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0101/rta.html

    another garda incident last night

    Hardly related. Accidents happen. Hope yer man gets better though.


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    #29
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Stark wrote: »

    2:30am on New Year's Eve. Guy was probably too locked to realise he was out in the middle of the road and the patrol car was probably in a rush to get to some incident.

    Why use the most likely scenario when you could have said that there was 8 gards packed into a modeo ,waving bottles of bud around, haning out the window looking for innocent people to mow down. At least it wil endeer you to the OP.:)


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    #30
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,895 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Stekelly wrote: »
    Why use the most likely scenario when you could have said that there was 8 gards packed into a modeo ,waving bottles of bud around, haning out the window looking for innocent people to mow down. At least it wil endeer you to the OP.:)

    Lol


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    #31
    keen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 987 ✭✭✭keen


    Kernel wrote: »
    We would if we could find any... apart from the ones in Neverneverland you speak of.

    What are you on about?


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