Christianity in the modern world.

philologos

bogwalrus wrote:

So i am now just wondering if a person who is on their death bed suddenly came to believe in christ (which they did not before) and in a genuine manner prayed for forgiveness for not believing in him and all that, would they be treated the same at the pearly gates as the long term Christians?? I have always wondered this and i believe PDN had talked about this before but really did not get a clear answer (or i just didnt understand the answer)

Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard should answer this.

Thank you for your interest

bogwalrus

to be honest what happens to the workers is not fair. Though they did agree to get one denouticus (or whatever its called) for their days work,they were right to be annoyed at yer man for giving the same to the lads that only worked an hour or so.

Now i am willing to accept that in those days people were broke and needed that one denoblabla a day to feed the family etc So i can understand the generosity in giving the late comers one denowhatya. It was a nice thing to do and thoughtful but the giver seems naive at the fact that the others were annoyed and very cheekly asks "Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?".......as if he didnt know the lads were going to be pissed off at him. not a nice thing to be saying and it is obviously not fair.

In saying the above the parable does not relate to the wealthy people of modern times. Take a county council worker out fixing a gate all day (which they do) If he got paid the same as the two young lads who were 3 hours late cause of a night of drinking then that is obviously unfair. If he had complained to the employer that the two lads were late then their wages would have been deducted or something. Where true generosity/compassion would lie would be if the man let the two young lads off and just asked them to try not be late the next time so he doesnt have to work longer.

And you know something if you look at that parable and take away the employer paying the men, it would be a far nicer sign of compassion for the men who had been working all day allow the fellas working one hour the same wage. Thats compassion for you now. Take away reward and do good for the sake of good. Something i believe is harder for a believer to do than a non believer.

philologos

Even though we came to Jesus earlier, those who come later are to be welcomed with full arms to His flock. This is what we do this is why the Kingdom of God is so radically different to the selfish ways of the world. If you are willing to follow Him even the day before death, you will be with Him forever. (for example the bandit on the cross beside Christ)

Looking at the world this way is viewing yourself as in the Christian faith as a debt that God has to you. That is a foul way to think. The longer you have with God, the better for you really. It is those who come later who have missed out the times they could have had with Him.

woooo 4000 posts

PDN

bogwalrus wrote: »

to be honest what happens to the workers is not fair. Though they did agree to get one denouticus (or whatever its called) for their days work,they were right to be annoyed at yer man for giving the same to the lads that only worked an hour or so.

Now i am willing to accept that in those days people were broke and needed that one denoblabla a day to feed the family etc So i can understand the generosity in giving the late comers one denowhatya. It was a nice thing to do and thoughtful but the giver seems naive at the fact that the others were annoyed and very cheekly asks "Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?".......as if he didnt know the lads were going to be pissed off at him. not a nice thing to be saying and it is obviously not fair.

In saying the above the parable does not relate to the wealthy people of modern times. Take a county council worker out fixing a gate all day (which they do) If he got paid the same as the two young lads who were 3 hours late cause of a night of drinking then that is obviously unfair. If he had complained to the employer that the two lads were late then their wages would have been deducted or something. Where true generosity/compassion would lie would be if the man let the two young lads off and just asked them to try not be late the next time so he doesnt have to work longer.

And you know something if you look at that parable and take away the employer paying the men, it would be a far nicer sign of compassion for the men who had been working all day allow the fellas working one hour the same wage. Thats compassion for you now. Take away reward and do good for the sake of good. Something i believe is harder for a believer to do than a non believer.

It's good to see, in these Celtic Tiger days, that the spirit of begrudgery is still alive and well.

Why can't we rejoice that someone else received something nice and undeserved without getting all bent out of shape because we it wasn't us?

I bought a leather suite in the Christmas sales. I payed 1100 euro. Last week I saw that Land of Leather were having a one day sale and people were
buying the same suite for 900 euro. Fair? Maybe not, but I bought a nice suite at the price agreed with the store and I'm still happy with my purchase - so I have no grounds for complaint.

bogwalrus

Jakkass wrote: »

Looking at the world this way is viewing yourself as in the Christian faith as a debt that God has to you. That is a foul way to think. The longer you have with God, the better for you really. It is those who come later who have missed out the times they could have had with Him.

woooo 4000 posts

i suppose i have to believe and appreciate the christian beliefs to be able to understand that my time on earth is a gift from god in which i owe him my servitude. I can understand where you are coming from though, if god does exist he gave you life and life is a pretty great thing, but the fact that he gave you life so that you could prove your servitude to him (via prayer and so on) well that in my opinion is not very nice. Its like when i finally get into heaven im going to bump into christ and say "excuse me master". its a very human interpretation of existence and a creator.

PDN wrote: »

It's good to see, in these Celtic Tiger days, that the spirit of begrudgery is still alive and well.

Why can't we rejoice that someone else received something nice and undeserved without getting all bent out of shape because we it wasn't us?

I bought a leather suite in the Christmas sales. I payed 1100 euro. Last week I saw that Land of Leather were having a one day sale and people were
buying the same suite for 900 euro. Fair? Maybe not, but I bought a nice suite at the price agreed with the store and I'm still happy with my purchase - so I have no grounds for complaint.

I personally do not begrudge. I said above (with the county council worker analogy) that the ideal kind thing to do would have been to go to the fellow worker and explain why it was unfair and ask them if they could try and be on time in future.

The parable mentioned above is a very specific and vague account anyway. Thats why i assumed that there were poor times back then as people really did need that one yo yo a day. I dont think any man would deny another man bread and water over the fact that he worked longer hours etc. But if times were good back then and the lads were working so they could purchase a new luxury possession then of course the employers generosity is completely unfair. Like paying foreign workers the same as irish workers when the foreign lads have been working more and are considered to be equal.

And about your suite. of course it was fair. thats what shops do sure. But you missing out on a sale is not the same at all as the above situation. Some one can be generous but that generosity can upset people. Thats the way the real world works.Maybe things would be different in heaven where the phrase "being fair" does not exist and make sense. fairness in this world though makes sure people are equal. Maybe people are not equal in heaven?

all the stars

Archeron wrote: »

I apologize to post this rant here, but I really feel this where it belongs.

As time goes on, in modern Ireland, everything seems to be discussed in terms of time absorbed and profit.
As a doubting Christian, I find myself more and more looking towards the horizon for other ideas as to how and what life should be.
I think I am officially lost.

Should I, as a Christian respect the teachings of that which has been put before me, or should I follow my heart and look to other places? The church has never offered me answers, nor has it offered places I can search for alternatives.

I have tried to read the bible, but....well.......

When faith is necessary, but the religion in which you search is apparently "questionable", in what direction does one travel?

So, my opinion: the bible is a fictional book that sets a nice idea of whats moral & good. ( not all of it either mind you)
I really think its like, fables.
Even my religion teacher said the adam & eve story didn't happen. I went to a convent.
It's just an idea's book. Not bashing it or anything... i was raised as catholic (well....) you know dragged to church on sunday.. listened to the monotone ramblings of the priest who, never made anything very clear..

I think find whatever fits for you. I mean, God, as in the bible - would be disgusted with the way we interprited his teachings & left out the bits that dont suit..
The vatican has more gospels that they wont release... so how could you blindly believe without all the 'facts'..

Everyone to their own. Life a good life, be good to others and once you feel ok yourself... you'll find you dont need to be told whats true & whats not..

Ekancone

Sure Jesus only plagarised Buddha anyway.

philologos

Buddha refered to God the Father?
Buddha tought Shema? (Deuteronomy 6:4-6)?

there are a few things similar and a few things different. It's not as simplistic as that. Jesus was also a distinctively Jewish figure.

Ekancone

Jakkass wrote: »

Buddha refered to God the Father?
Buddha tought Shema? (Deuteronomy 6:4-6)?

there are a few things similar and a few things different. It's not as simplistic as that. Jesus was also a distinctively Jewish figure.

Oh thats right, Buddha didn't condone slavery. You are right.

Asiaprod

daithifleming wrote: »

Oh thats right, Buddha didn't condone slavery. You are right.

Please tone this down, it is not the Christianity forum.
Asia

Ekancone

Asiaprod wrote: »

Please tone this down, it is not the Christianity forum.
Asia

Sorry. That stemmed from another debate.

Archeron

daithifleming wrote: »

Sure Jesus only plagarised Buddha anyway.

As much as I sure this is meant in (partial) jest, how true could this statement be? Could the basics of the Buddhist be faith be viewed as ripe material on which to base a newer religion? After all, who can argue kindness and compassion, and it would seem all too easy to just tag on a name or deity of your choosing and create a new faith.

Asiaprod

Archeron wrote: »

As much as I sure this is meant in (partial) jest, how true could this statement be? Could the basics of the Buddhist be faith be viewed as ripe material on which to base a newer religion? After all, who can argue kindness and compassion, and it would seem all too easy to just tag on a name or deity of your choosing and create a new faith.

For me, after 30 study, it is a lot more true than you think. There are many parallels (skip the conspiracy stuff). I continually mention the Missing years of Jesus and the accounts in Buddhist literature of a person named Saint Issa. You should check it out:)

MeditationMom

Maybe that's what Christianity is - a Jewish version of Buddhism Then Mohammed came along and tried to fix it.

As most of you know - one of my favorite statements is the Dalai Lama's :"My religion is kindness" which I think is what all religions boil down to - the rest is all not worth fighting over.

Then yesterday I came across this - my truly favorite - the Tao - how could I have forgotten?

"When the great Tao is forgotten,
Kindness and morality arise.
When wisdom and intelligence are born,
The great pretense begins."

maitri

MeditationMom wrote: »

As most of you know - one of my favorite statements is the Dalai Lama's :"My religion is kindness" which I think is what all religions boil down to - the rest is all not worth fighting over.

Reminds me of this: this