Christianity in the modern world.

philologos

So you consider Buddhism a philosophy, not a religion.

Asiaprod

Jakkass wrote: »

So you consider Buddhism a philosophy, not a religion.

Now you are on the path:)
I always describe Buddhism as a philosophy with a strongly attached spirituality. The three most commonly referred to writings in Buddhism are the the Pali Canon and the Diamond and Lotus Sutras. Of these three, the Lotus Sutra is held in high regard as the the last actual teaching of the Buddha before he passed over. My own sect of Buddhism is based on this Sutra, but I would never discount any of the others. IMO they all feed into each other. If you have time give it a read. I would be very interested to hear your take on it.

I would also like to compliment you, I do appreciate the fact that you are open minded enough to discussing these ideals in a constructive and non aggressive manner. In our language, its called a seeking spirit. Such a change from some other places here I have to visit;).

philologos

Buddhism seems in similar structure in books to Judaism or Islam. Judaism with the Tanakh, Mishnah, Talmud, Kaballah, and Islam with Qu'ran, Sunnah, and Hadith. Makes a lot of sense, much appreciated. My knowledge of Buddhism is poor.

I will look towards the Sutra at another point, when I can (Leaving Cert coming up, aah! ). Also, I do not intend to be aggressive. I cannot be aggressive to something I do not know. No harm in a bit of comparative religion now and again.

MeditationMom

Nothing wrong with a little comparative religion indeed

This also reminded me to ask why we don't have a Judaism Forum on boards. Could we start one? Or has it been tried before?

Asiaprod

MeditationMom wrote: »

Nothing wrong with a little comparative religion indeed

This also reminded me to ask why we don't have a Judaism Forum on boards. Could we start one? Or has it been tried before?

It has come up many times, just does not seem to be enough interest.

philologos

I think the issue was there were very few of a Jewish background on Boards to answer the questions and to participate in the threads effectively.

MeditationMom

by Asiaprod - It has come up many times, just does not seem to be enough interest.

Hm...Hasidic teachings teach that you have to die before you die. That is all I remember. I always loved that.

A king once asked a saint to explain the Torah while standing on his head. The saint summed it up as: " Do not do onto others as you would not have them do onto you" as he fell over from this position. The king got up, helped the old man get back up onto his feet, and thanked him.

by bogwalrus - Mom,

that is the most honest sense i have read on any of the atheist through christian forums since i have started posting. i would love to be able to explain my thoughts simply and concise like you are able to but that obviously takes practice and focus (through mediatation i believe)

One thing i will try to say that is always on my mind. Why is it that people keep talking about their bibles and their scripts and history of their religion when it is really irrelevant. The past always seems to be a factor in theistic belief and buddhist belief. Is it not the present and the future that is of concern. Does one need to know that budda did this and jesus did this to believe in a way of life. I certainly dont work like this. I love the buddhist philosophy on life but i do not study the scripts. I meditate and i try to be more compassionate and less egoistic-i do not strive for nirvana as i feel it to be more usefull to try and help others on this planet by trying to be more compassionate at the same time (if you get what i mean). I see wrong in the world with the more knowledge i gain and this should be a driving force to be proactive in the real world. i sometimes doubt the actions of buddhists to reach enlightenment for themselves as it seems to be very selfish when the real concern should be to show others the way to view life.

Thank you bogwalrus. I love your report on how you approach life and meditation. It is sincere and authentic, based on quiet observation! A human being like you is a joy to read about. You have a very astute spiritual instinct for discernment. The people around you are lucky.

A kind, meditating atheist who doesn't want people to be stuck in the past - it doesn't get much better. You are on the right path. When someone asked the Dalai Lama what his religion was he answered:"My religion is kindness." I hear you saying the same thing. It takes no knowledge of history, or belief in any scripture, nor does it require anyone getting tortured to death for our sins.

...and you are doing very well in explaining things, by the way.

Asiaprod

Asiaprod wrote: »

It has come up many times, just does not seem to be enough interest.

Ah, I wondered why, thanks for the info. I am sure there will be one day. I better start studying now;)

maitri

kelly1 wrote: »

MM, one of the things that convinces me that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life is His uniqueness. e.g.

- Only Jesus claimed to be the *only* Son of God
- Only Jesus claimed to have existed eternally.
- Only Jesus died for our sins.
- Jesus claims to be the only way to the Father.
- Only Jesus has the power to judge us (John 5:22)
- He lived a perfect, sinless life.
- Only Jesus claimed to be able to forgive sins.
- Jesus performed many miracles including raising the dead to life
and had power over the elements and demons.
- The events of Jesus' life are accurately predicted in the Old Testament.
- Only Jesus resurrected from the dead.
- Only Jesus was born of a virgin.

No other major religious leader can or has claimed any of these things.

I am sure you're right when you say that Jesus was very unique.

As far as I know you're also right in saying the founders of our other great world religions did't claim these things about themselves (though I believe some Muslims claim that the coming of the prophet Mohammed is predicted in the Bible).

The Buddha (since we have this discussion in the Buddhism boards) certainly didn't make such claims. According to the sutras he was asked by a brahman (priest):

"Are you a god?"
"No, brahman, I am not a god".
"Then an angel?"
"No, indeed, brahman."
"A spirit then?"
"No, I am not a spirit."
"Then what are you?"
"I am awake."

Still the claims about Jesus is not exclusive for Christianity. Since I have studied history of religion for some time, I know that many of these claims are parts of other and older religions thatn Christianity. To mention some examples:

- Only Jesus claimed to be the *only* Son of God

At Jesus' time there were several religious leaders in Israel/Palestine who claimed the title "Son of God" - whether or not they claimed to be the only one I do not know, but Jesus' disciples probably wanted to distinguish him from the others by saying he was the only "Son of God". From other religions we also know stories about incarnation of a god walking on earth and doing miracles. Krischna avatar (incarnation) of the Indian sky god Vishnu is one of them. (some of the High Gods and thus their avatars were also seen as "eternal")

- Only Jesus was born of a virgin.

Classical heroes from Greec religion like Herkules, Perseus and Theseus were believed to have Virgin Mothers and a god for a father (sex did't have to be involved in the conception).

- Only Jesus resurrected from the dead.

The belief of a god who died and resurrected from the dead is very old. It has been said about: Mithra, Osiris, Tammuz, Ba'al (BTW Ba'al was son of the Sky God "El", still etymologically present in names like IsraEl, BetEl, IsmaEl and who had some of the titles also used about the Jewish/Christian God: El Shaddai and El Elyon and El of Betel), Adonis, Balder, Dionysus.

- Jesus performed many miracles including raising the dead to life
and had power over the elements and demons.

This was also said about several of the other religious leaders in Israel at the time. Also religious leaders in India often were said to have such powers.

- Only Jesus has the power to judge us (John 5:22)

The idea of a heavenly judge was central in may old religions, e.g. Mithra (who was also said to live a perfect sin-free life) was also believed to have that position. Also in Greec religion people met a judge after death.

- The events of Jesus' life are accurately predicted in the Old Testament.

Are they really? Do you mean Isaiah 7:16-17? The word translated as "virgen" can just as well mean "young woman" in Hebrew. And do you really think the rest of the verse is a good description of Jesus and his life?

NB! I am not saying that your belief in Christianity is wrong. What i am saying does not prove your religion to be wrong. All I am sayng is that a lot of Christian ideas and mythology are known also from other religions even though the religions are not identical in all aspects.

MeditationMom

Nice post, Maitri. Good to have scholars around. I remember how astonished I was years ago, when I first started reading about the similar stories in so many religions. It struck me a lot like what it must have been like to find out that the earth is round, and revolving around the sun after thinking it is flat and not exactly the center of the Universe. Our beliefs, and our faith is so strong.

I also vividly remember the first time I heard about that statement of Buddha's of not being a God, but being awake. It was a wake up moment right there for me to look at religion from a whole new perspective. That was so long ago now, it was nice to be reminded.

I also remember how very trusting and faithful I was as a child, and how much I loved Jesus and all the Bible stories. His miracles and sacrifice were clear proof to me, that he was God's son and my heart broke for him that some people didn't believe in him or understood him. I had the feeling of not wanting him to have gone through all his suffering in vain. A child can relate easily to not being listened to, to being misunderstood, to being falsely accused of something, and to being unjustly punished.

In second grade, I was ready to be crucified myself - for Santa - when an older boy told me that there was no Santa. I had no proof, of course, but I implicitly trusted my mother and could not imagine her lying to me about something that important. The boy and I argued until he shoved me and we got into a scuffle. We had to go see the principal.

Instead of praising me for my courage in standing up for Santa to an older boy and the principal - my mother gently sat me down and confessed that he didn't exist. It took her all afternoon to ease me through the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny disillusionment after that. Thank God I got to keep Jesus for a while longer. But - I now knew that I was gullible - and became very, very interested in the truth about everything.

In the end, even I turned out to be an illusion.

Asiaprod

Again, nice post, Maitri. +1
Kelly, nothing you have said is unique Christianity. It still comes down to your own personal belief.

kelly1

Asiaprod wrote: »

Again, nice post, Maitri. +1
Kelly, nothing you have said is unique Christianity. It still comes down to your own personal belief.

Asia, can you name any other figure who was sent specifically to die for our sins and who did so willingly?

kelly1

MeditationMom wrote: »

I also remember how very trusting and faithful I was as a child, and how much I loved Jesus and all the Bible stories. His miracles and sacrifice were clear proof to me, that he was God's son and my heart broke for him that some people didn't believe in him or understood him. I had the feeling of not wanting him to have gone through all his suffering in vain. A child can relate easily to not being listened to, to being misunderstood, to being falsely accused of something, and to being unjustly punished.

So what changed you attitude to Jesus? Did you ever believe in His divinity?

MeditationMom wrote: »

In the end, even I turned out to be an illusion.

MM, I find this philosophy very disturbing. I used to half believe in it too in my former Yoga days. It was called Maya. For all we know everything could be an illusion but it's a very, very realistic one. If it is an illusion, who's creating the illusion and why? Wouldn't it be a very cruel game on the part of the supreme being who creates the illusion? Think of the millions of people who suffer and die daily in this so-called illusion. I don't see any point in creating an illusion. It gives the impression that God treats us like laboratory animals in a cruel experiment and I can't and don't accept that theory. God loves each and every one of us personally and knows the (diminishing) number of hairs on every head.

God bless,
Noel.

18AD

kelly1 wrote: »

MM, I find this philosophy very disturbing. I used to half believe in it too in my former Yoga days. It was called Maya. For all we know everything could be an illusion but it's a very, very realistic. If it is an illusion, who's creating the illusion and why? Wouldn't it be a very cruel game on the part of the supreme being who creates the illusion? Think of the millions of people who suffer and die daily in this so-called illusion. I don't see any point in creating an illusion. It gives the impress that God treats us like laboratory animals in a cruel experiment and I can't and don't accept that theory. God loves each and every one of us personally and knows the (diminishing) number of hairs on every head.

God bless,
Noel.

In Christianity, is heaven/hell not the true everlasting existence? And this is the test to see where you end up, kind of like an experiment of free will...

Just curious. I'm very unfamiliar with christianity.

All the best.
AD.

kelly1

18AD wrote: »

In Christianity, is heaven/hell not the true everlasting existence? And this is the test to see where you end up, kind of like an experiment of free will...

I don't see life on earth as an experiment. Giving us free is the only way a good and loving God would do things. If we had no free will, we would be forced to do His will and if God did force us to love Him, He wouldn't be a loving God. Even the angels in Heaven abused their free will but at least God knows that the remaining ones truly want to do His will out of love for God.

God bless,
Noel.

18AD

So is it natural that some follow and some don't? Like the angels.

And to rephrase my previous question: Is the afterlife realer than this universe? Is the universe more illusory than the afterlife? Or is the afterlife and the universe of equal reality status?

Thanks.
AD.

beans

Wouldn't it be a very cruel game on the part of the supreme being who creates the illusion?

Why does there have to be a creator? Very interesting thread thusfar, very educational

kelly1

18AD wrote: »

So is it natural that some follow and some don't? Like the angels.

Yes. Some put created things before the Creator and some put the Creator first. Isn't the artist more important than the painting?

18AD wrote: »

And to rephrase my previous question: Is the afterlife realer than this universe? Is the universe more illusory than the afterlife? Or is the afterlife and the universe of equal reality status?

I don't think it's any more real, it's just spiritual instead of physical. Both are very real because they were created and are continually kept in existence by the will of God. i.e without God's will, they would cease to exist. I suppose you could say that God is more real than His creation because creation depends for it's existence on the Creator. Or maybe I'm just waffling

kelly1

beans wrote: »

Why does there have to be a creator? Very interesting thread thusfar, very educational

I suppose because everything that exists must a cause. There must be some point along the chain of creation when you have to stop at something which has no cause and exists eternally. Otherwise you have an infinite chain of cause and effect which seems a bit loopy to me!

beans

Ah, I meant a 'creative willpower' or sentience. I can't prove or disprove the possibility of this externally-existing entity. Indeed, none of us can - that's a matter of faith But I don't think it's very important either way; we can only make do with what we can know.

bogwalrus

well personally i like to think that there is a creator (in some form). Not of our universe but of the mechanism that drives life and the universe.

Where some might say evolution and natural selection is the cause for life to progress into its different stages, i like to think that there has been some cosmological plan, be it infinite of existence or came to be by a superior entity, it need not matter at this stage of humanity as we are still in early stages of conscious develpment. Though we can distinguish between what is good and bad we cannnot clearly distinguish between what is right and wrong (when i say this i mean in a very close quarter sense, no1 can say that their positive actions can't negatively effect some1 else..etc...)


I believe this to be true- if we were to accept one creator divided from humanity, the world would be a better place.....i do cry sometimes from the beauty of life but always at a cost.....

MeditationMom

by kelly1 - There must be some point along the chain of creation when you have to stop at something which has no cause and exists eternally.

It is not a point. It is everywhere. There is nowhere where it is not. We have our being in it and are of it. It is the holiest of the holiest, the most sacred. It is where we come from and to which we will return.

God bless you, kelly1.

Archeron

MeditationMom wrote: »

It is not a point. It is everywhere. There is nowhere where it is not. We have our being in it and are of it. It is the holiest of the holiest, the most sacred. It is where we come from and to which we will return.

God bless you, kelly1.

Thats a beautiful post. It reminds me strangely of the film "Stigmata". Their was a phrase in it which reads something like..

"Lift a rock, and you will find me, split a piece of wood and I am there".

That phrase always struck a chord with me, just a Christian chord though as it was something I had never heard before in my religious teaching. Previous, Jesus or God were only in special places or special people who done the right things.
Your quote sounds like just the same idea, but without the influence of any particular deity, and thereby promoting the virtuous life as being all that which is of any importance.
For me the hardest part is grasping the concept of what that holiest, most sacred is. A concept? A notion? A thing, a feeling or an emotion? Even these are things that are only of THIS world, and probably irrelevant in the greater scheme of things.
Although in truth I know not whether I am even worthy of asking those questions to begin with. Befuddling really.

MeditationMom

by archeron - "Lift a rock, and you will find me, split a piece of wood and I am there".

How beautiful! It is the same.

by archeron - For me the hardest part is grasping the concept of what that holiest, most sacred is. A concept? A notion? A thing, a feeling or an emotion?

All grasping has to stop It is just poetry about the indescribable. I put it into Christian poetry in that third sentence for kelly1. For you the first two sentences, and the last, would have been enough.

by archeron - Although in truth I know not whether I am even worthy of asking those questions to begin with. Befuddling really.

We are always worthy to ask questions in the pursuit of truth. It is not a question of worthy. If you can remain "befuddled" though, know that absolute befuddlement comes before finding out the truth.

by kelly1 - So what changed you attitude to Jesus? Did you ever believe in His divinity?

Yes I did. Then I learned that I was gullible. It didn't change my attitude towards Jesus which was love, but I changed my attitude towards people who claim to know who Jesus was, or what divinity is, and decided to find out for myself. As far as Jesus was concerned, his goodness alone made me love him, not because he was conceived by the holy ghost. Jesus' message was compassion. The rest is suspect.

by kelly1 - MM, I find this philosophy very disturbing. I used to half believe in it too in my former Yoga days. It was called Maya. For all we know everything could be an illusion but it's a very, very realistic one. If it is an illusion, who's creating the illusion and why? Wouldn't it be a very cruel game on the part of the supreme being who creates the illusion? Think of the millions of people who suffer and die daily in this so-called illusion. I don't see any point in creating an illusion. It gives the impression that God treats us like laboratory animals in a cruel experiment and I can't and don't accept that theory. God loves each and every one of us personally and knows the (diminishing) number of hairs on every head.

kelly1 - it is not a philosophy of mine. As I told you, I do not believe anything someone else tells me, nor do I believe anything I think, as that also has turned out to be wrong. I was as easily fooled by my own ideas and conclusions as I was by others'. As you are by yours.

You are certainly right that we do not live in a cruel universe with a sadistic creator. This is a wrong conclusion to make from the fact that the world is an illusion. You are also right that we need to be here, now and respond to the world as if it were 100% real. But, we need to stop reacting to it as if it were 100% real.

Row, row, row your boat... gently down the stream ...merrily, merrily, merrily, may...life is but a dream.

Asiaprod

MeditationMom wrote: »

Yes I did. Then I learned that I was gullible. It didn't change my attitude towards Jesus which was love, but I changed my attitude towards people who claim to know who Jesus was, or what divinity is, and decided to find out for myself. As far as Jesus was concerned, his goodness alone made me love him, not because he was conceived by the holy ghost. Jesus' message was compassion. The rest is suspect.

How beautifully put, I wish I had the insight to be able to phrase it like that. Thank you for the knowledge

philologos

Meditation Mom wrote:

Yes I did. Then I learned that I was gullible. It didn't change my attitude towards Jesus which was love, but I changed my attitude towards people who claim to know who Jesus was, or what divinity is, and decided to find out for myself. As far as Jesus was concerned, his goodness alone made me love him, not because he was conceived by the holy ghost. Jesus' message was compassion. The rest is suspect.

I don't see how it is gullible to believe in the principles of the Christian faith. There is significant evidence towards the historical Jesus as well as the spiritual one.

Yes, I believe that he was a man of compassion. That is because I believe that He came to give us the message of truth so that we may live with the Spirit. To those who didn't believe in His message they would have thought it rude or arrogant due to His claims of being the Son of God.

If I may quote the famous Christian apologist C.S Lewis:

Mere Christianity - C.S Lewis wrote:

You must make your choice. Either this man was and is the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronising nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.

I think that sums it up rather well.

I can't understand what you find suspect about the Christian story and the Christian approach to life. Could you please elaborate, I don't know what you were getting at here?

Your quote is like this one:

Gandhi wrote:

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

This quote is too many times true unfortunately. Is this the reason for your change of attitude to those who claim to know who Jesus was and what divinity is. Personally I find there is a lot about God that I do not know or I never will know. I'm thankful for the piece I have however.

Asiaprod

Jakkass wrote: »

This quote is too many times true unfortunately. Is this the reason for your change of attitude to those who claim to know who Jesus was and what divinity is. Personally I find there is a lot about God that I do not know or I never will know. I'm thankful for the piece I have however.

If I might cut across your converstation to comment on this point
The teaching of compassion, which is what jesus' message was all about is also the central theme in Buddhism. Up to this point we do not differ. We do differ in the administration of your belief and the adage that those in authority have decided to add. For example. Your God gave 12 commandments, yet the powers that be decided to add a further 10? Was not the word of your God sufficient in itself? Why add further. Why when your God, through jesus, preached compassion for all men, does your church condemn those who do not follow your rules. Why can your church not accept that one should not be judged on one's belief, but on the good example of one's life. Can you see someone like Gandhi burn in hell, despite his humble approach to non-violence? These are the types of issues that make it very hard to accept that Christianity is the one and only path to follow.
In Buddhism, its your actions that count, not what club you belong to. Buddhism has never claimed to be the only path to follow. Its only claim is to show one a way to understand and alleviate the suffering inherent in human life; birth, sickness, old age and death. It respect the right of all individual to approach life in their own way with the full understanding that one will reap what one sows.
I have no doubt that if it turns out that their is indeed a God and a heaven its going to be filled with Buddhist. I will look forward to meeting you there:)

philologos

Asiaprod wrote: »

If I might cut across your converstation to comment on this point
The teaching of compassion, which is what jesus' message was all about is also the central theme in Buddhism. Up to this point we do not differ. We do differ in the administration of your belief and the adage that those in authority have decided to add. For example. Your God gave 12 commandments, yet the powers that be decided to add a further 10? Was not the word of your God sufficient in itself? Why add further. Why when your God, through jesus, preached compassion for all men, does your church condemn those who do not follow your rules. Why can your church not accept that one should not be judged on one's belief, but on the good example of one's life. Can you see someone like Gandhi burn in hell, despite his humble approach to non-violence? These are the types of issues that make it very hard to accept that Christianity is the one and only path to follow.
In Buddhism, its your actions that count, not what club you belong to. Buddhism has never claimed to be the only path to follow. Its only claim is to show one a way to understand and alleviate the suffering inherent in human life; birth, sickness, old age and death. It respect the right of all individual to approach life in their own way with the full understanding that one will reap what one sows.
I have no doubt that if it turns out that their is indeed a God and a heaven its going to be filled with Buddhist. I will look forward to meeting you there:)

The teaching of compassion was Jesus' teaching yes. He did some of the most powerful things in relation to religious thought between the Jews and Gentiles.

The "administration of belief", this is a rather complex issue and is not across the board for the whole of Christianity. Infact I'm not even sure of what you mean by this. Christianity is a faith by which we reach out to others to bring them the word of God so that they may experience life with Him and the benefits that come with it.

The system of commands is far far more than 10 or 12, I do not know what you mean by this.

God gave the Torah the 613 Mitzvot (or rules) and the ceremonial and the judicial law to separate the Jewry from the Gentiles until the time would come through Jesus Christ to evangelise throughout the Western and the Eastern world to all creeds and all people who would have been willing to come to it.

The Old Covenant was merely preparation for bringing the world to God once and for all. So yes people do find the terminology. Through the wisdom of Jesus Christ the divine plan was sealed and set and we were to live our lives through God and the rulings he gave us.

Clearly we have work to do. I don't insist on forcing my theology on anyone, I'm working to apply the rules to my own life, so it would be a bit hypocritical for me to point out the flaws of others if I have not addressed my own completely yet. Also as for the Church "condemning". This is not across the board. As far as I'm concerned is the way it should be done is through teaching others about the ways of Christ should they be willing, and then leading them to living a life coherent to the rules as they progress through the Church. Shouting, condemning, damning, is not the way to bring anyone to the saving message of Jesus Christ as far as I'm concerned.

The judging is down to God, which is what you seem to have an issue with. I believe that through regarding God as the means by which you can power your life and the way you can keep on living a just life, you are regarding His reaching out to you so it can become a mutual relationship. I believe it is only through God or what little we have received from Him that we can even live a just life.

You say in Buddhism it is your actions that count. In Christianity the actions count also, but not the same actions you refer to. You refer to the negative actions, I refer to the positive actions of accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.

I believe that through a certain faith, that good works come from God, not from self. This is the difficulty in me saying that it is only by ourselves that we are just. I don't believe this to be true.

At the same time I do believe that there is some truth in other beliefs such as Buddhism, however I believe that Christianity is the absolute truth.

As for who will or who will not go to hell. Who am I to say this? This is the role of God and I will leave it to His decisions to him.

MeditationMom

by Jackass - I can't understand what you find suspect about the Christian story and the Christian approach to life. Could you please elaborate, I don't know what you were getting at here?

I find anything suspect that claims special status. Also I find anything suspect that has been put into several languages, translated many times and been interpreted by many people with various motives.

God, who after billions of years doesn't even create two identical snowflakes - would only give us one true religion? There are as many paths to God/Truth as there are varieties of snowflakes. All snowflakes, like all religions, melt away in the end, before dissolving into the peace that is God.

C.S Lewis
You must make your choice. Either this man was and is the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronising nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.

This is very simplistic, dualistic thinking. Maybe in context this would not sound as childish as it does. Maybe the church "did not leave this open to us, or intend to" but Jesus actually saying and meaning it this way - to me is highly suspect. Nonetheless, the necessity for total commitment, is true. But his reasons why are false.

by Jackass - I'm thankful for the piece I have however.

This peace and gratitude is all that matters and your religion has served you well! If this peace can be disturbed however, by the idea that your religion may not be the "only " path to God, this peace is not yet profound enough. Why be disturbed by other religions?

philologos

MeditationMom wrote: »

I find anything suspect that claims special status. Also I find anything suspect that has been put into several languages, translated many times and been interpreted by many people with various motives.

That's why if you have the time and the patience, you can learn either Biblical Hebrew, Greek and a smattering of Aramaic and give it a look yourself.

The history behind the scriptures is what makes possible to believe, the fact that there are tangible places that people can visit, that these places and certain events referred to in the Bible are actually infact also historically true is amazing. Then you have to look to who these men were.

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Two of these were of his twelve disciples. Mark was a disciple of Peter, and Luke who was the scribe of Paul, was also part of the Seventy picked by Jesus.

Authenticity was held in high regard in the Church, and I have no reason to feel any suspicion in relation to the Bible. Jesus' teachings were as they were written, I have no doubt about it.

MeditationMom wrote:

God, who after billions of years doesn't even create two identical snowflakes - would only give us one true religion? There are as many paths to God/Truth as there are varieties of snowflakes. All snowflakes, like all religions, melt away in the end, before dissolving into the peace that is God.

Where do you get this doctrine of melting away from? Yes God has made a lot of things unique, including each and every one of us. However He has also intended for us to be one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:28). For me anyway, there is what is true and what is false in most cases. This also applies to doctrine and religion. However I'm willing to concede that there are truths in other religions or similarities that bear to the Christian way to life.

MeditationMom wrote:

This is very simplistic, dualistic thinking. Maybe in context this would not sound as childish as it does. Maybe the church "did not leave this open to us, or intend to" but Jesus actually saying and meaning it this way - to me is highly suspect. Nonetheless, the necessity for total commitment, is true. But his reasons why are false.

I'm pretty sure that Jesus (or the Word of God) became flesh so that He may lead us to what is true and righteous. I don't think He intended for people to say that's nice, but not quite get into it. When He came to recruit his disciples, He said "Follow me!" and they went and followed Him. He also intends for us to follow Him and to follow the message of His Apostles which we have today.

I'm still not sure what you mean by highly suspect? Do you mean that the Bible is suspect or the writings of C.S Lewis.

MeditationMom wrote:

This peace and gratitude is all that matters and your religion has served you well! If this peace can be disturbed however, by the idea that your religion may not be the "only " path to God, this peace is not yet profound enough. Why be disturbed by other religions?

My peace is not disturbed, through Christianity. I have to act the same to everyone whether they be Muslim, Jew, or Secular Humanist also. I choose to follow the narrative of Christianity but it does not remove my obligation to be tolerant of others.