Dublin Bus workers threaten strike

dub_commuter

There are normally 40-50 buses per day and up to every 10 minutes in peak time on the 40D I just checked, now they will have 3 from 5pm onwards. You do not think that is a problem?

I can assure you it's longer than ten minutes. It takes longer than that in the bus and thats off-peak when there is no traffic and the bus doesn't stop anywhere. It's more like 45 minutes walk up a very dangerous road with no path with lots of blind corners in the dark if you get off in Mulhuddart i

January

dub_commuter wrote: »

There are normally 40-50 buses per day and up to every 10 minutes in peak time on the 40D I just checked, now they will have 3 from 5pm onwards. You do not think that is a problem?

I can assure you it's longer than ten minutes. It takes longer than that in the bus and thats off-peak when there is no traffic and the bus doesn't stop anywhere. It's more like 45 minutes walk up a very dangerous road with no path with lots of blind corners in the dark if you get off in Mulhuddart i

There's a path all the way up Church Road to Tyrellstown now.

You have to go into the park once. But it's still a path. It's not dangerous at all. I've walked it many times and it's only taken me ten minutes. Granted it may take longer on the bus but the walk isn't that much.

EDIT: I should clarify, what I meant by deluded was, that people who could still get busses to work with a prolonged journey should do so without grumbling. My mother in law had to walk home from work in the pourings of rain (an hour walk) because all of the busses that pass by Finglas were out on strike (83, 40, 40A, B, C, D and the 40N are out of service).

Chris1

bigar wrote: »

When I moved 2 years ago to my new home, I decided to use the bus to get to and from work. On paper I would have plenty of busses to do this. I quickly found out this is not the case. Many busses did not show up or came late. OK fair enough with the busy Dublin traffic, I thought. Until I heard and later saw (when I was on a bus) that drivers actually take short cuts and bypasses many bus tops by doing so. I actually twice went up to the driver saying I needed to get off at one of the stops he now did not service and always got a rude answer back.

After a few weeks I went back to using the car as using the bus got me literally nowhere. I was disgusted by the inconsiderate and untrustworthy behaviour of the bus drivers and vowed never to set foot on a bus again.

Now with this strike I am sad to see my opinion confirmed. Not only do they refuse to provide the already bad service to their customers, they now also hold the north side of the city at ransom as it now becomes gridlocked with all the people taking the car to get to and from work or school. So now even people who never take a bus are affected and they double almost everyone’s (unpaid) commute.

Bus drivers are an inconsiderate lot (don’t get me started on their driving “skills”) and have proven this once again.

If your not happy,pay for a Taxi...........

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

aliveandkicking

bigar wrote: »

drivers actually take short cuts and bypasses many bus tops by doing so. I actually twice went up to the driver saying I needed to get off at one of the stops he now did not service and always got a rude answer back.

Did you report this to the inspector in the garage? If not why not and if so what response did you receive?

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

spareman

bk wrote: »

I want to show just how ridiculous this situation is

Take two neighbours living in Swords, one a person working in the private sector in the city centre, the other the bus driver.

The private sector guy leaves in the morning, pays to get on a bus, arrives in town and goes to work. At the end on the evening, he pays to get back in the bus and heads home to Swords. This guys gets paid zero for his commute time and has to pay for the bus.

Now the bus driver drives from Swords to Harristown, picks up the bus and starts the route. When he finishes the route (usually at an off peak time) he hands the bus over to another driver and gets on another bus as a passenger, doesn't need to pay any fare and gets paid for 45 minutes during this journey back to Harristown, picks up his car and makes the rest of the journey home to Swords.

The important point here is that unlike the person in the private sector, the bus driver is actually getting PAID for half his commute time!!!!

This line being spun by the Unions that it is forced paid overtime is complete BS.

It is more like extra pay for the slight inconvenience caused in having to commute, that non of the rest of us ordinary private sector works get.

Private sector employee works in city center, right? Now tell him he has to start and finish in Tallaght instead of city.

spareman

paulm17781 wrote: »

I've gotten the 4 from O'Connel st. to Ballymun many times, some during rush hour. 46 minutes is surely longer than it takes eitherway. I can leave Ballymun on the 8.20 4, get to Trinity, walk to the Luas, get the Luas to Balally and get into work at 9.10am sometime a little earlier. I have done this several times.

Im just amazed by this post? Have you contacted the guiness book of records yet?

the_syco

Pretty sure that the people are striking due to a woman getting suspended, for not doing the route.

As for the LRC, they gave Dublin Bus a free hand to do whatever they wanted to do.

spareman

dmfod wrote: »

I'm really disappointed by the amount of private sector workers complaining about the strike on the grounds that any time their management wants to make their working conditions worse they just have to lie down and take it- so therefore public sector workers should as well. This seems completely wrongheaded to me. The problem here is not that Dublin Bus workers have a union which defends their hard-won rights, but that many private sector workers don't. The problem for private sector workers is not public sector workers, but management and employers. If anything private sector workers should follow the example of Dublin Bus workers in standing up for their rights. All workers (bar the guards I think) have a legal right to form unions and to strike, and this is the only way to prevent greedy managers and employers from exploiting workers even more than they already do.

As to a previous poster who said that if workers in his workplace went on strike they would be sacked- that is illegal- and rather than sneering at co-workers who have the courage to stand up for themselves (which is a difficult and scary thing to do in a company with an anti-union atttiude) and congratulating himself on his supposed hard-nosed realism, he should educate himself on his rights and start fighting for them. That is what Dublin Bus workers are doing and anybody who is an employee, public or private, should have the commonsense to support them. It may inconvenience you in the short term, but in the long run if unions are defeated, it will make all of our working lives far far worse.

(By the way I don't work in Dublin Bus before anyone asks & it took me 1 1/4 to get from Stoneybatter to the Ballymun road the other day due to lack of 4s & 83s so I am also personally affected by the strike)

This is the best post Ive seen on this thread.

AlekSmart

Having just listened to the podcasts of Wednesdays Morning Ireland and the Later LiveLine programme all I can say is My Brain Hurts. :mad:

There is quite obviously a seriously wide gap in the comparative understanding of what the Labour Court and LRC proposals actually are and what many of the Harristown drivers actually believe.

This gap in comprehension was not helped by two spirited contributions from Harristown people which managed to include several references to William Martin Murphy and the general principle of the working classes being repressed.

Then to liven up Liveline another contributor made wide ranging allegations concerning favoritism being shown to South Dublin and in particular Donnybrook in several areas,but most noticably the allocation of Buses and route alignments.

At a time when one would have expected disputing staff to be conscious of the need to clarify and expand on the hard issues we got instead something that amounted to sneering and ridiculing other Drivers who`s only crime is to be employed at a different location

To me it represented the most bizzarre of broadcasts as contributors lined up to bring in all manner of extraneous stuff including references to Political representatives on the Southside.

I`m at a loss to know what is to come next as indications are that some form of Harristown presence will be at other garages tomorrow.

I`m assuming that given the antipathy to Donnybrook and South Dublin shown on Liveline that this means it will be the target of some form of Solidarity display.

Wednesdays media performance did little to advance the Harristown drivers cause and may well have served to alienate some sections of Busworkers who,for example are looking with interest at some 30 duties on the 128 which are up for marking-in,a process which would at least allow a considerable number of spare staff to attain a far more predictable working arrangement.

In comparison,the BAC management rep,Operations Manager Michael Matthews appeared to be the epitome of sound common sense as well as sweetness and light......as I said my brain hurts and I need to lie down in a dark place for several days.

Perhaps some of our NORTH side political figures might be able to take a spin up to Harristown and enquire as to what the hell is going on...???? :eek:

( I would recommend anybody with the computing setup to access RTE.ie and look up Wed`s Morning Ireland and the Liveline then play the interviews and make your own judgement...then post a review on Boards )

lostexpectation

the nonbus driver people phoning in didn't have clue what they were talking about, just being mean spirited.

MiniD

I must agree with Alek on this one. Some drivers are really coming across like the world is against them, without addressing the main cause of this strike. It would serve the drivers better to stick to the facts.

Over the past few days, we've heard stories how drivers are suffering from not seeing their families, paying high house prices, how drivers have to commute from Navan and Offaly, complaining how Donnybrook and Southside routes get better buses.

All of this has nothing whatsoever to do with this strike. Unfortunately, it just sounds like a bunch of winging bus drivers, and results in the public giving you very little support.

It must have been confusing for anybody listening to Liveline, how there are no new buses on the Northside, to open a newspaper or switch on the news and see a fleet of 06D and 07D buses sitting empty behind the drivers on strike.

My name is Mud

spareman wrote: »

Private sector employee works in city center, right? Now tell him he has to start and finish in Tallaght instead of city.

...not forgetting that he'll be paid 45 mins overtime to do this. How long does the Luas red line take to get to Tallaght? About 46 mins I believe.

I find it bizarre that yourself and meanmachine fail to acknowledge that this additional commute is being compensated for.

And before you ask, a "commute" is regular travel, not necesarilly from work to home or vice versa.

This thread, the strike, and the number of "anti-bus" posters (myself included), is a prime example to strengthen the governments future position to the introduction of privatisation.

Quote from Spock, in the Wrath of Khaaaaaaan

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"

Jip

adrieanne__x wrote: »

People are deluded in how much of a state the bus strike is leaving them in. How are 38C customers stranded when they are only a ten minute walk from where they live if they get the 38??

Take a look in the mirror. How often for example have you walked from Tyrrelstown to Corduff ? Try it a bit more often than never and you'll find it's a lot longer than 10 minutes.

MiniD

According to Dublin Bus, the total shift time for a Harristown driver is 7.5 hours.

Built into this 7.5 hours, is 45 minutes commuting time to and from the depot. So a driver is only actually driving a bus for 6 hours.

I really don't see how a 7.5 hour working day is that big a problem.

paulm17781

spareman wrote: »

Im just amazed by this post? Have you contacted the guiness book of records yet?

It turns out I was getting the 8.00Am 4, that means it takes 1hr10 to traverse the city. Still less than 46 mins from O'Connell st to Harristown.

Alek, well put.

MOH

spareman wrote: »

This is the best post Ive seen on this thread.

Because it's one of the minority agreeing with you?

SimonSays

dmfod wrote: »

I'm really disappointed by the amount of private sector workers complaining about the strike on the grounds that any time their management wants to make their working conditions worse they just have to lie down and take it- so therefore public sector workers should as well. This seems completely wrongheaded to me. The problem here is not that Dublin Bus workers have a union which defends their hard-won rights, but that many private sector workers don't. The problem for private sector workers is not public sector workers, but management and employers. If anything private sector workers should follow the example of Dublin Bus workers in standing up for their rights. All workers (bar the guards I think) have a legal right to form unions and to strike, and this is the only way to prevent greedy managers and employers from exploiting workers even more than they already do.

As to a previous poster who said that if workers in his workplace went on strike they would be sacked- that is illegal- and rather than sneering at co-workers who have the courage to stand up for themselves (which is a difficult and scary thing to do in a company with an anti-union atttiude) and congratulating himself on his supposed hard-nosed realism, he should educate himself on his rights and start fighting for them. That is what Dublin Bus workers are doing and anybody who is an employee, public or private, should have the commonsense to support them. It may inconvenience you in the short term, but in the long run if unions are defeated, it will make all of our working lives far far worse.

(By the way I don't work in Dublin Bus before anyone asks & it took me 1 1/4 to get from Stoneybatter to the Ballymun road the other day due to lack of 4s & 83s so I am also personally affected by the strike)

Fighting for your hard earned rights. To what exactly, the right to strike because you you have to pull an extra carriage on a train or have to be trained to drive a different train to the one your used to, the right to strike because you have to change a light bulb its not your job to change. These were real strikes. As times change, businesses and services need to adapt to stay productive. There therefore has to be some flexibility in terms of work practices. This is where the public and private sectors deviate. I worked in a County Council for years and ,I’m sorry if this offends anyone, but there is absolutely a culture of lazyness in the public sector, that their entitled to a stress free working environment. Any attempt, no matter how trivia, to change work practices and improve efficiency was fought tooth and nail. These changes werent ruining their private lives, they wouldn’t have to work under impossible conditions, they’d just have to work. For public servents, the words ‘Its not my job to do that’ must be first they learn. Nobody in Celtic Tiger Ireland is ‘Entitled’ to that, if we all were then we’d be still stuck in the days of 20% unemployment and mass emigration. In the private sector we have to work damn hard and be flexibile to changing circumstance to maintain our lifestyles and then have to rely on inefficient public services across the board because the staff within won’t.

spareman

MOH wrote: »

Because it's one of the minority agreeing with you?

People here have already said how they have to work extra hours in the evening and weekends without pay or they would be sacked, Im not surprised kids are growing up in crèche's here, People need to make a stand against greedy empoyer's. Its all well and good saying your doing for the good of the company, but when these companies are making hugh profit margins on your backs its just not right. Ive heard people here say they have to work bloody dam hard, and hugh amounts of overtime to survive, We as bus driver's are the same, Yes our average working day is 7.5 hours, thats work time in the seat, this figure does not include our break which could be up to 5 hours. On top of this we have to do overtime to survive. I myself need to work at least 10 hours overtime, and my wife works full time too, On my late week I would rarely see my wife or kids. I know this has nothing to do with the current strike, But Im just wondering how many people think this is right, Should we be working extra hours with no pay because we like the celtic tiger, or because we keep the boss happy, or because we live in a so called modern society. I think its sad that people in Ireland can not afford to put there family first.

bk

spareman wrote: »

Private sector employee works in city center, right? Now tell him he has to start and finish in Tallaght instead of city.

Mate, it happens all time, offices frequently move. He either has to decide to move with the office or quiet his job and get a job with another company.

Been there, done that.

Of course if he was actually going to get paid for the trip from the city centre to Tallaght he might not mind (Luas from city centre to Tallaght takes about 45 minutes).

spareman

Question for people against the strike!!
Old System
Bus driver starts at Harristown at 8am and finishes at 4pm. (last week)
New System
Bus driver starts at Harristown at 8am, makes his way to take up a bus at O connell bridge at 08.45, Hands bus to another driver in the city at 3.15pm and makes his way out to Harristown to finish at 4pm.

Does anyone think this may lead to delay's for passengers?

Cervantes

Question for strikers!

Go directly to town
Clock in there
Drive bus
Finish shift in town
Clock out there
Go home

Not sure where the problem with the above lies?

spareman

Cervantes wrote: »

Question for strikers!

Go directly to town
Clock in there
Drive bus
Finish shift in town
Clock out there
Go home

Not sure where the problem with the above lies?

What about the driver who has to take the bus at 3.15pm and needs his car in the garage as there is no public transport when his shift ends?

paulm17781

spareman wrote: »

Question for people against the strike!!
Old System
Bus driver starts at Harristown at 8am and finishes at 4pm. (last week)
New System
Bus driver starts at Harristown at 8am, makes his way to take up a bus at O connell bridge at 08.45, Hands bus to another driver in the city at 3.15pm and makes his way out to Harristown to finish at 4pm.

Does anyone think this may lead to delay's for passengers?

I have no idea perhaps, none the less we would have a service, unlike now. How does this add to the working day?

Also, regarding "greedy employers" I work hard and am paid well for working hard. The harder I work, the higher my annual pay rises will be. This is little to do with greedy employers, it is how to succeed in the real world.

MOH

spareman wrote: »

Question for people against the strike!!
Old System
Bus driver starts at Harristown at 8am and finishes at 4pm. (last week)
New System
Bus driver starts at Harristown at 8am, makes his way to take up a bus at O connell bridge at 08.45, Hands bus to another driver in the city at 3.15pm and makes his way out to Harristown to finish at 4pm.

Does anyone think this may lead to delay's for passengers?

a) No reason he can't go straight to town for 8am and finish there at 4pm, like any other commuter. In that example, no need to go to Harristown at all.

b) Under the old system, is he not driving an empty bus to/from the depot anyway? (unless it's a 27B/83)

So in answer to your question, no difference for passengers. (Apart from the 4 days so far of strike disruption).

spareman

paulm17781 wrote: »

I have no idea perhaps, none the less we would have a service, unlike now. How does this add to the working day

Drivers would need to be in Harristown at 7.30am at the latest to ensure they are at O Connell street to take the bus, and the same coming back to the garage, People have often complained here that they had to wait 20/30 mins for a so called high frequency service. Im asking do you think this would work, if drivers operated to the exact rule, ie turn up in harristown at 08.15 when they should be taking a bus at 9am.

MOH

spareman wrote: »

What about the driver who has to take the bus at 3.15pm and needs his car in the garage as there is no public transport when his shift ends?

Wtf? You give an example, as soon as people point out there's no problem you change it?!

OK, the 3.15 driver parks his car at Harristown and uses the paid 46 minutes to get into town for 3.15, which is doable since it's not peak time. Afterwards he drives the bus back to the depot as he always did.

(And your question is allegedly about the affect on passengers, not how a driver gets home)

spareman wrote: »

Drivers would need to be in Harristown at 7.30am at the latest to ensure they are at O Connell street to take the bus, and the same coming back to the garage, People have often complained here that they had to wait 20/30 mins for a so called high frequency service. Im asking do you think this would work, if drivers operated to the exact rule, ie turn up in harristown at 08.15 when they should be taking a bus at 9am.

What is this obsession with Harristown? If the driver can clock in in town, he doesn't need to go to Harristown for 8.15, he goes straight to town for 9.00, like tens of thousands of other people do every day.

popebenny16

Does the Financial Regulator bus operate out of Harristown?

spareman

MOH wrote: »

a) No reason he can't go straight to town for 8am and finish there at 4pm, like any other commuter. In that example, no need to go to Harristown at all.

b) Under the old system, is he not driving an empty bus to/from the depot anyway? (unless it's a 27B/83)

So in answer to your question, no difference for passengers. (Apart from the 4 days so far of strike disruption).

If the driver starts or finishes his shift outside the hours of public transport he will need to leave his car in the garage. If a driver was to commute to the city by bus or train to start at 9am and finish in Harristown at 5pm, I presume it would be a much Longer commute home from harristown by public transport, at 5pm, He would probably have to go back to the city to make a connection for home.