Christians should not celebrate Halloween.

PDN

ned78 wrote: »

Then I for one am delighted you're not my Father. Hallowe'en is a wonderful night for kids to dress up, not just as monsters, but also like Superheros, and role models. They get treated especially well by neighbours, and get given gifts - thereby setting the example to kids that it's better to give than receive (An example they'd appreciate when they get older). It's something that bonds a community, and builds a relationship between parent and child too.

And I too am delighted that I am not your father. So we are in agreement.

PDN

djpbarry wrote: »

Bit of a generalisation there.

Now you're just being silly. I had already referred to that rap music which does glorify homophobia & wife beating. Do you want to actually discuss the issues at hand?

Simi

Couldn't be bothered reading through 5 pages of nonsense so I'll just address my post to the title & the authors original post. Why is it that christian nut jobs have a problem with everything except the ludicrous nature of their statements? Halloween is the best holiday ever! (Aside from maybe x-mas.) I for one will be dressing up as scooby doo & taking part in a blood orgy with the local children! After which I'll sacrifice some of them to the blood god Snagglepuss...I fear I've said too much...

Zombrex

BrianCalgary wrote: »

We have no right to judge their actions and I think wicknight PDN has explained clearly the reason for his church having the party in this manner.

I wasn't aware PDN was from an African culture that is associated with witch-craft

Zombrex

PDN wrote: »

Now you're just being silly. I had already referred to that rap music which does glorify homophobia & wife beating. Do you want to actually discuss the issues at hand?

I think he does, which is why we are all a little puzzled why you are bringing up homophobia, wife-beating, rape and murder when we are discussing Halloween

Leaving aside the leading your children into turning into a Satan worshiping wife-beating rapists, what is your actual issue with Halloween itself?

Do you let your children go on roller coasters?

djpbarry

PDN wrote: »

Now you're just being silly. I had already referred to that rap music which does glorify homophobia & wife beating. Do you want to actually discuss the issues at hand?

No, I don't think I am being "silly". I think it's a perfectly reasonable statement. Specifically, what rap music are you referring to? What other forms of music do you object to? And what does this have to do with Halloween?

Scofflaw

Belief in magic and witchcraft serves a fundamental human need.

cordially,
Scofflaw

BrianCalgary

Wicknight wrote: »

I think he does, which is why we are all a little puzzled why you are bringing up homophobia, wife-beating, rape and murder when we are discussing Halloween

Leaving aside the leading your children into turning into a Satan worshiping wife-beating rapists, what is your actual issue with Halloween itself?

Do you let your children go on roller coasters?

PDN did not bring it up. djbarry implied paedophilia in the church and then edited it out.

And to quote wicknight:
I wasn't aware PDN was from an African culture that is associated with witch-craft

I suggest you read PDN's post:

PDN wrote: »

I pastor a church that contains a fair number of non-nationals, including a couple of hundred Africans. Most of those Africans do not see witchcraft as being something harmless or as a bit of fun, in fact some of them bear scars on their bodies that were inflicted during occult rituals. Child sacrifice is still a feature of witchcraft as practiced in certain parts of the world.

I have highlighted the key points.

Do you read anybodies posts?

djpbarry

BrianCalgary wrote: »

PDN did not bring it up. djbarry implied paedophilia in the church and then edited it out.

PDN did bring it up:

PDN wrote: »

Also, the sight of little kids wandering around in darkness and approaching strangers' doors (often unaccompanied by an adult) must be a paedophile pervert's favourite fantasy.

He also brought up homophobia and wife-beating. I don't know what any of this has to do with Halloween.

BrianCalgary

djpbarry wrote: »

PDN did bring it up:

He also brought up homophobia and wife-beating. I don't know what any of this has to do with Halloween.

Originally Posted by PDN
Also, the sight of little kids wandering around in darkness and approaching strangers' doors (often unaccompanied by an adult) must be a paedophile pervert's favourite fantasy.

I stand corrected. What PDN is doinghere is showing thepotential danger of allowing your kids out at night unattended.

As a parent I went out with my kids every hallowe'en to make sure that they were all OK against the dangers of the world and their own naivete.

djpbarry

BrianCalgary wrote: »

What PDN is doinghere is showing thepotential danger of allowing your kids out at night unattended.

That's just common sense - it is not directly related to Halloween.

BrianCalgary

djpbarry wrote: »

That's just common sense - it is not directly related to Halloween.

Well yeah it is. Hallowe'en is the only night of the year where trick-or-treat takes place and a whole wack of young children are out in the dark.

Rev Hellfire

BrianCalgary wrote: »

Well yeah it is. Hallowe'en is the only night of the year where trick-or-treat takes place and a whole wack of young children are out in the dark.

I think you're wrong on that, if a parent is prepared to let a kid go out on Halloween unattended they'll let them out unattended other nights as well.
Added to which the people seem to be living in at perpetual state of fear these days, the number of paedophile's has (I'd assume) increased since you where a kid, we need to be brave enough to allow kids enjoy their childhoods.

Scofflaw

BrianCalgary wrote: »

Well yeah it is. Hallowe'en is the only night of the year where trick-or-treat takes place and a whole wack of young children are out in the dark.

Still, nothing about Hallowe'en requires that they be unattended - so the argument is a little like saying you're against Hallowe'en because a kid in a costume might drink bleach - sure, they might, but it has nothing to do with Hallowe'en.

Anyway, trick or treating, bleugh. American thing, and the whole 'dressing up and candy' is too commercially oriented - it's like a Hallmark Holiday for the sweet manufacturers. Where are my bob-apples and apple on a string, and the (un)lucky dip?

cordially,
Scofflaw

djpbarry

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

if a parent is prepared to let a kid go out on Halloween unattended they'll let them out unattended other nights as well.

Agreed.

Scofflaw wrote: »

Anyway, trick or treating, bleugh. American thing, and the whole 'dressing up and candy' is too commercially oriented - it's like a Hallmark Holiday for the sweet manufacturers. Where are my bob-apples and apple on a string, and the (un)lucky dip?

Not saying I'm a fan of Halloween myself, but, if it's not doing anyone any harm and it's making some kids happy, then it can't very well be bad, can it?

Fanny Cradock

Scofflaw wrote: »

Where are my bob-apples and apple on a string, and the (un)lucky dip?

cordially,
Scofflaw

The good old days!

For that you'll need either a time machine or a basin, water, string and apples - whichever is easier.

Scofflaw

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

The good old days!

For that you'll need either a time machine or a basin, water, string and apples - whichever is easier.

When you've no TV, it's funny how your children don't expect a fancy costume and trick or treating.

cordially,
Scofflaw

PDN

djpbarry wrote: »

PDN did bring it up:

He also brought up homophobia and wife-beating. I don't know what any of this has to do with Halloween.

Homophobia and wife-beating has nothing to do with Halloween. It is, however, relevant to the issue of censorship (an issue that you raised). I was, as you well know, referring to certain types of rap music that glorifies such things and explaining that it is perfectly reasonable for a church to censor what it exposes children to. Anyone who was interested in having an adult discussion could see that easily enough.

PDN

Scofflaw wrote: »

Still, nothing about Hallowe'en requires that they be unattended - so the argument is a little like saying you're against Hallowe'en because a kid in a costume might drink bleach - sure, they might, but it has nothing to do with Hallowe'en.

Anyway, trick or treating, bleugh. American thing, and the whole 'dressing up and candy' is too commercially oriented - it's like a Hallmark Holiday for the sweet manufacturers. Where are my bob-apples and apple on a string, and the (un)lucky dip?

Nothing about Halloween requires that kids are unattended when they go trick and treating. However, such unattended visits to the doors of strangers does happen a lot at Halloween, so it is relevant to the discussion.

Scofflaw

PDN wrote: »

Nothing about Halloween requires that kids are unattended when they go trick and treating. However, such unattended visits to the doors of strangers does happen a lot at Halloween, so it is relevant to the discussion.

I've nothing really to say in favour of 'trick-or-treating' myself, but it too is not a necessary part of Hallowe'en.

Would you also be against carol-singing, and for the same reasons?

cordially,
Scofflaw

PDN

Scofflaw wrote: »

Would you also be against carol-singing, and for the same reasons?

Yes, kids going carol singing is nothing more than a form of begging. I would be against it for the same reasons in that;
a) It is dangerous to encourage kids to go to strangers' houses.
b) It encourages anti-social behaviour in later life (begging, not singing).

Besides, most Christmas carols, with one or two honourable exceptions, are absolute crap both lyrically and musically.

For purely personal reasons I inconsistently and hypocritically grant an exemption to the Salvation Army in my otherwise blanket condemnation of carol singers.

Run_to_da_hills

PDN wrote: »

Yes, kids going carol singing is nothing more than a form of begging. I would be against it for the same reasons in that;
a) It is dangerous to encourage kids to go to strangers' houses.
b) It encourages anti-social behaviour in later life (begging, not singing).

Besides, most Christmas carols, with one or two honourable exceptions, are absolute crap both lyrically and musically.

For purely personal reasons I inconsistently and hypocritically grant an exemption to the Salvation Army in my otherwise blanket condemnation of carol singers.

Carol singing is also a scam with travellers and I would be wary of them.

djpbarry

PDN wrote: »

Homophobia and wife-beating has nothing to do with Halloween. It is, however, relevant to the issue of censorship (an issue that you raised).

I suggested that you were "censoring" Halloween, and you agreed. You also "censor anything that glorifies gun culture, violence against women, racism etc. " and criticise parents who's kids are "listening to rap with lyrics about killing gays or beating up women".

Based on the manner in which you made these references, it would appear to me that you were implying that Halloween is right up there with all those other "evils". No?

I'd be interested to find out more about this "rap with lyrics about killing gays".

PDN wrote: »

I was, as you well know, referring to certain types of rap music that glorifies such things

I am being totally genuine here. I have never, in my life, heard a rap artist "sing" about "killing gays". It seems to me that you are imposing blanket bans on the kids based on your own misconceptions.

PDN wrote: »

Anyone who was interested in having an adult discussion could see that easily enough.

No need to start throwing insults - let's set a good example for the children.

PDN wrote: »

Nothing about Halloween requires that kids are unattended when they go trick and treating. However, such unattended visits to the doors of strangers does happen a lot at Halloween, so it is relevant to the discussion.

Bad parents will practice bad parenting at any time of the year. So, the issue is bad parents, rather than Halloween.

Scofflaw

PDN wrote: »

Yes, kids going carol singing is nothing more than a form of begging. I would be against it for the same reasons in that;
a) It is dangerous to encourage kids to go to strangers' houses.
b) It encourages anti-social behaviour in later life (begging, not singing).

I'm amazed, but I don't think I'm going to actually take up the cudgels on this one.

PDN wrote: »

Besides, most Christmas carols, with one or two honourable exceptions, are absolute crap both lyrically and musically.

Admittedly true...

PDN wrote: »

For purely personal reasons I inconsistently and hypocritically grant an exemption to the Salvation Army in my otherwise blanket condemnation of carol singers.

I hope it's not the uniforms, anyway!

cordially,
Scofflaw

Scofflaw

djpbarry wrote: »

I'd be interested to find out more about this "rap with lyrics about killing gays".
I am being totally genuine here. I have never, in my life, heard a rap artist "sing" about "killing gays". It seems to me that you are imposing blanket bans on the kids based on your own misconceptions.

No misconception about rap music can be as bad as actual rap music.

euphoniously,
Scofflaw

djpbarry

Scofflaw wrote: »

No misconception about rap music can be as bad as actual rap music.

Not saying I'm a fan, just curious .

PDN

djpbarry wrote: »

I'd be interested to find out more about this "rap with lyrics about killing gays". I am being totally genuine here. I have never, in my life, heard a rap artist "sing" about "killing gays". It seems to me that you are imposing blanket bans on the kids based on your own misconceptions.

For some examples of homophobic rap lyrics check out http://www.phatfamily.org/dadislist.html

Jamaican dancehall music is another form of rap. Both Beanie Man and Elephant Man, who feature on 2fm playlists, are notorious for lyrics that advocate killing gays.

djpbarry

PDN wrote: »

Both Beanie Man and Elephant Man, who feature on 2fm playlists, are notorious for lyrics that advocate killing gays.

Ok, fair enough. Like I said, I'm not a fan of rap music, I was genuinely curious.

Run_to_da_hills

PDN wrote: »

For some examples of homophobic rap lyrics check out http://www.phatfamily.org/dadislist.html

Jamaican dancehall music is another form of rap. Both Beanie Man and Elephant Man, who feature on 2fm playlists, are notorious for lyrics that advocate killing gays.

There is NO argument that Rap originated with the Devil's crowd, in the crime infested ghettos of New York, so what would you expect. Satan works through music lyrics, As a DJ I am well aware of lyrics that premote racism, murder, hatred, suicide, rebellion, drugs etc etc. Speaking of Rap there is actually such thing as "Christian Rap",

djpbarry

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There is NO argument that Rap originated with the Devil's crowd, in the crime infested ghettos of New York, so what would you expect. Satan works through music lyrics

Bit of an unfair generalisation there.