Regular tourney discussion - Who's going and what happened?

Ace2007

o right...

Goodluck2me

Had 72,000 chips of the 168.000 in play 5 handed, and lose 3 pots and im out in 5th. Average was 33,400, nearest to me was Theresa on 36000. Karl_PPP raises UTG to 4,000, i call with TT, theresa shoves all in for the 3rd/4th time against me and showed KQ the first time, and nothing the second, i call for a Race and she has JJ. I know she has a tendency to overplay any pair so i figure ive got the odds to do it. range is 66+ KQ,AJ+.
Left with 28,000 i shove UTG with AQo and Macspower calls all in with KTs for 14000, and he turns a King, my rivered Queen was no help...
Then Shove A5 on the button and Karl-H calls with AK, i flop a 5 and he turns a flush...
The JJ v TT hand is very tight but id say its a call, although im really not sure.
The champ, Theresa KArl_H and Macs still in, in that chip order.

AKQJ10

unlucky joe, went around to jackpot after to try win my buy in back, me adam and conor doyle managed to break the game within an hr. pretty sweet. why dont you post ur explanation for your call against me

thechamp87

finished 3rd in the end. A4 v theresa's AJ aipf. no miracle 4... theresa and Karl h still playing when i left with marc.
joe's blow up was definately on a par with AKQJ10's in drogheda.

Goodluck2me

thechamp87 wrote:

joe's blow up was definately on a par with AKQJ10's in drogheda.

there`s a difference between a blowup and getting consecutively unlucky whilst playing well. i think that distinction should be made. I dont think i did a whole lot wrong and would play them all pretty similarly again, maybe with the exception of the TT althought i still think its pretty close.
I dont play to cash,i was playing FTW and sometimes it doesnt work out that way.

AKQJT wrote:

why dont you post ur explanation for your call against me

Hand 0: 50.801% { 9d8d }
Hand 1: 49.199% { random }

you could literally push ATC there, you got it in with 34h and 58c alredy that night to therefore as i know this i am happy to take the wrong side of a coinflip if i am wrong. im in a lecture now but i will post a more detailed explanation later.

this might be closer though.
Hand 0: 46.629% { 9d8d }
Hand 1: 53.371% { 22+, A2s+, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 64s+, 53s+, 42s+, 32s, A2o+, KJo+, QJo, JTo, T9o, 98o, 87o, 76o, 65o, 54o, 43o, 32o }
I know that taking you out would have implied value as the others players were likely to be less aggressive, and that i was much more likely to be successsful with my raises therefore compensating me for the slight lack in current equity.
I made it 2400, there was 900 on blinds out there and you shoved for 13400. so its 11,000 to me to win 16700. 1.51:1, and im only a 1.12:1 to your range. therefore a profitable call. I can afford up to the wrong side of a 60:40 with the call, which i didnt need.

Hand 0: 48.163% { 9d8d }
Hand 1: 51.837% { A4o }

LuckyLloyd

thechamp87 wrote:

joe's blow up was definately on a par with AKQJ10's in drogheda.

No, it really isn't. Think about this for a while. Run over the two events in your head. Done that? Still think that?

Goodluck2me

LuckyLloyd wrote:

No, it really isn't. Think about this for a while. Run over the two events in your head. Done that? Still think that?

thank you.

Lloyd what do you think of my thoughts/reasoning for the above hand?

LuckyLloyd

goodluck2me wrote:

Lloyd what do you think of my thoughts/reasoning for the above hand?

Firstly, it looks as if you opened the pot to 2400 at 300 / 600 with 8d9d. Don't do that. Be raising to 1500 - 1800 with your entire range. If you open for 1500, it's not going to change the ranges that people decide to fold, call or raise with much. But it makes it less profitable for Mark to stick it in here.

As for the call, I see the maths. We know Mark's ranges are wide. I still don't like it though.

Goodluck2me

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Firstly, it looks as if you opened the pot to 2400 at 300 / 600 with 8d9d. Don't do that. Be raising to 1500 - 1800 with your entire range. If you open for 1500, it's not going to change the ranges that people decide to fold, call or raise with much. But it makes it less profitable for Mark to stick it in here.

As for the call, I see the maths. We know Mark's ranges are wide. I still don't like it though.

I know i opened for 4BB but i tend to vary between that at random and 3BB, never really any less, as you have minimal FE af <3BB i think. I had also raised the hand previous to this and won the blinds with AK, so im sure Mark was happy to believe i was opening with a big range, which to be fair was correct this time, but i hadnt shown down a losing hand all night until this point i believe.

I dont mind that you dislike it but we both know that you have to run really well to win a tournament anyway and i was happy to race to get rid of him and move into a commanding lead.

LuckyLloyd

goodluck2me wrote:

I know i opened for 4BB but i tend to vary between that at random and 3BB, never really any less, as you have minimal FE af <3BB i think

Live, if they want to take a flop with 22 - 99; or A2s - AJo; or 76s - KQs: they will. Whether you make it 1500 or 2400. But when you make it 1500, it is easier to take pots down postflop and less expensive to lose pots post - flop. Your C - bets are cheaper; and having a smaller pot relative to stacks should help you more than your opponents. And you'll be raising with JJ - AA too; and you will want action with those hands.

Blip

^^^ in before the banage

AKQJ10

i had pushed with 34 when i accidently min raised and was called in 3 spots for 600 befor a guy went all in for 2200. its not a bad spot to isolate and take on his hand when theres no way any of the callers were calling. then i had 5bb and got it in with 75c. anyway my range now with a playable stack had severly tightened up, i didnt raise on button or co purely due to i know im getting looked up as people just remember the hand when i shoved with 34. we were down to 6 with 4 prizes, my range is A2+, 22+, 910s+. i want you to call everytime, but saying you called as you had a chance to gamble and knock me out sitting to your immediate left knowing im gonna be aggressive is not good reasoning, if u double me up i'll be able to make it much harder on you.

LuckyLloyd

AKQJ10 wrote:

we were down to 6 with 4 prizes, my range is A2+, 22+, 910s+. i want you to call everytime, but saying you called as you had a chance to gamble and knock me out sitting to your immediate left knowing im gonna be aggressive is not good reasoning, if u double me up i'll be able to make it much harder on you.

I think this is very sensible. "Don't feed the bears" as Luke might say. As I said, I don't like the call with 9 high.

Flushdraw

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Live, if they want to take a flop with 22 - 99; or A2s - AJo; or 76s - KQs: they will. Whether you make it 1500 or 2400. But when you make it 1500, it is easier to take pots down postflop and less expensive to lose pots post - flop. Your C - bets are cheaper; and having a smaller pot relative to stacks should help you more than your opponents. And you'll be raising with JJ - AA too; and you will want action with those hands.

I dont really agree with the above Lloyd. Theres a huge difference between calling with A2s-AJo or 76s-KQs for 1500 and then for 2400.

If Joe opens for 2400 and gets 1 caller, its 1800 to the BB into a 5700 pot
If Joe opens for 1500 and gets 1 caller, its 900 to the BB into a 3900 pot

Also if Joe opens to 1500, a 3bet steal from a villain could cost as little as 4k to get through, although if he opens for 2400, it would cost 6k min.

I prefer 1800-2200 at this level for opening a pot

Goodluck2me

AKQJ10 wrote:

but saying you called as you had a chance to gamble and knock me out sitting to your immediate left knowing im gonna be aggressive is not good reasoning, if u double me up i'll be able to make it much harder on you.

if that was the only or even the main reason you would be correct, that was more of ancilliary bonus. If you doubled up you would have 25K and id still haave had 56K so i really wouldnt have been overly bothered if you were still in, id obv prefer it if you were out.
I showed the maths of the sitaution and it turned out i was correct in my reads. I also think that its important for you to realise who your customer is, in that i will think things through quite a lot and i also completely discounted you having QQ+ and AK as i felt you looked really uncomfortable, and you would most likely flat call and try to trap me a la the QQ hand earler where you checked your Big Blind.
You would have been better off targetting Mac/theresa/karl who would have been likely to fold as they were playing for their stacks. I also wasnt playing that loose to make an A4o shove profitable, i am always calling with better aces and pretty much 55+ aswell, so im not sure of the merits of the shove.
It was just one of those Texas holdem cooler A4o 9Ts race type sityashuns.

Goodluck2me

Flushdraw wrote:

I dont really agree with the above Lloyd. Theres a huge difference between calling with A2s-AJo or 76s-KQs for 1500 and then for 2400.

If Joe opens for 2400 and gets 1 caller, its 1800 to the BB into a 5700 pot
If Joe opens for 1500 and gets 1 caller, its 900 to the BB into a 3900 pot

Also if Joe opens to 1500, a 3bet steal from a villain could cost as little as 4k to get through, although if he opens for 2400, it would cost 6k min.

I prefer 1800-2200 at this level for opening a pot

It also means that villains will have to play for stacks rather and gives them less scope to profitably see flops.

LuckyLloyd

goodluck2me wrote:

It also means that villains will have to play for stacks rather and gives them less scope to profitably see flops.

Making it more likely that you will be playing for stacks post - flop is bad for you when 98soooted is in your raising range. DUCY???????

LuckyLloyd

Flushdraw wrote:

I dont really agree with the above Lloyd. Theres a huge difference between calling with A2s-AJo or 76s-KQs for 1500 and then for 2400.

If Joe opens for 2400 and gets 1 caller, its 1800 to the BB into a 5700 pot
If Joe opens for 1500 and gets 1 caller, its 900 to the BB into a 3900 pot

Also if Joe opens to 1500, a 3bet steal from a villain could cost as little as 4k to get through, although if he opens for 2400, it would cost 6k min.

I prefer 1800-2200 at this level for opening a pot

Tony, I strongly disagree with the above if you are going to be opening pots with a wide range in an Irish tournament. Remember that a lot of the players you are playing will call with the type of hands I am talking about for a lot of non - logical reasons:

- "I've been seeing nothing";
- "I fancied seeing a flop";
- "They were sooted";
- They are getting tired;
- They are getting bored;
- They're sick of you pushing them around;
- They think you are "stealing" too much;

I think playing small ball with effective stacks in the 20 - 40BBs range is the way to go if you want to be opening a lot and putting the pressure on. If your opening range was 1010+ // AQs+ exclusively then I would agree that bigger opening raises would make a lot more sense.

And finally, note that smaller opening raises are becoming more and more standard among some of the better tournament players both live and online. You're not going to see Sorel Mizzi or Justin Bonamo opening for 2400 at 300 / 600 like, ever.

Anyway, we may have to agree to disagree on this one. If so, fair enough.

Glowingmind

Any of you cats been playing the wednesday SE or JAckpot games recently? How many runners are they getting?

Goodluck2me

Glowingmind wrote:

Any of you cats been playing the wednesday SE or JAckpot games recently? How many runners are they getting?

played the jackpot last week over 40 runners.

Luckylloyd wrote:

Making it more likely that you will be playing for stacks post - flop is bad for you when 98soooted is in your raising range. DUCY???????

Well to be honest it was the first time that i had raising with a hand like that all night, my range was a LOT narrower than that until then. i wasnt playing particluarly aggressive at the time.
It is not bad for me Lloyd, as i am not really raising pre flop for value therefore people are hardly going to shove all in light against me as i hadnt shown down many bad hands all night, the only person i thought capable of doing this was mark. you wouldnt have seen anyone else in that situation with less than AQ. therefore i win the blinds more often as they are put to a situation where its call off a high % of their stack to see a flop, or risk going all in. Therefore i should win the blinds uncontested much more often than if, using an exagggerated example, i min raised.
I also think that Sorel mizzi does change his raises and have watched him and many others do this very frequently, but i appreciate the point you were trying to make nonetheless.

Ace2007

jackpot got 41 last week

thechamp87

LuckyLloyd wrote:

No, it really isn't. Think about this for a while. Run over the two events in your head. Done that? Still think that?

i was only winding joe up!!! i fully agree with you.:)

LuckyLloyd

thechamp87 wrote:

i was only winding joe up!!! i fully agree with you.:)

Oh, sorry!!

thechamp87

goodluck2me wrote:

there`s a difference between a blowup and getting consecutively unlucky whilst playing well. i think that distinction should be made. I dont think i did a whole lot wrong and would play them all pretty similarly again, maybe with the exception of the TT althought i still think its pretty close.
I dont play to cash,i was playing FTW and sometimes it doesnt work out that way.

I apologise, the blowup comment was a joke. I hadnt played with you in a long time and I was impressed by you play throughout the final table (even if that hand with Tommy did take 14 minutes when it should have taken 4!). As for the cards, I think the deck seemed to turn on you when we got 5 handed.

In relation to the 2 key hands - being the 1010 and the 89 - I dont think i was folding the 1010, especially against Theresa's range here. You had raised maybe half the pots in the 2 orbits preceding the hand and it looked like she was shoving on the button to take you off it. I expected to see anything form A8+ to KJ or KQ, and from playing with Theresa a fair bit, I think you were unfortunate to run into the higher end of her range.

You say you weren't playing to cash but to win and I completely agree with this. I presume this thinking was the reason you said you'd gamble against Marc. I agree with Lloyd's thinking on it and would have raised smaller preflop. Marc's decision shouldn't change and it gives you a chance to get away from it as I know you were uncomortable making the call. You know yourself that if you double Marc up in that situation he can make the rest of the night a lot harder for you. Personally I didn't like the call but I understand your reasoning behind it in the circumstances. I feel that Marc's range here includes a lot of hands that have you crushed and I presume this was another factor in your reluctance to call.

Anyway, as I said I apologise for the "blowup" comment, I was merely getting a dig in after you constantly telling me how much bigger you stack was at the final table!!! Chat to you later.

Goodluck2me

thechamp87 wrote:

I apologise, the blowup comment was a joke.

sure i know that, banter etc.

I hadnt played with you in a long time and I was impressed by you play throughout the final table (even if that hand with Tommy did take 14 minutes when it should have taken 4!). As for the cards, I think the deck seemed to turn on you when we got 5 handed.

Thanks, but i suppose it was good to me earlier in the night too, the Tommy hand i though was interesting as i knew he could put me on an over pair an di was in between raising and deciding to call the shove or flat calling and giving him a chance to out draw me, hence why i took my time.[/QUOTE]

In relation to the 2 key hands - being the 1010 and the 89 - I dont think i was folding the 1010, especially against Theresa's range here. You had raised maybe half the pots in the 2 orbits preceding the hand and it looked like she was shoving on the button to take you off it. I expected to see anything form A8+ to KJ or KQ, and from playing with Theresa a fair bit, I think you were unfortunate to run into the higher end of her range

.
Yah that and the fact she had gone all in with KQ and a randon hand to which i both folded i figured she didnt need a monster there.

You say you weren't playing to cash but to win and I completely agree with this. I presume this thinking was the reason you said you'd gamble against Marc. I agree with Lloyd's thinking on it and would have raised smaller preflop. Marc's decision shouldn't change and it gives you a chance to get away from it as I know you were uncomortable making the call. You know yourself that if you double Marc up in that situation he can make the rest of the night a lot harder for you. Personally I didn't like the call but I understand your reasoning behind it in the circumstances. I feel that Marc's range here includes a lot of hands that have you crushed and I presume this was another factor in your reluctance to call.

im certainly not scared to double him up if thats what happens then fine, game on. It makes life easier if he isnt there but i doubt it makes life that much harder for me if he stays. i have played with him long enough and we enjoy playing deep against each other. He is a huge fish with slug-like qualities, and i love him for it xXx. As i say i was willing to take a bit of a gamble thinking i wasnt goin to be in terrible shape i.e. "the theory of live cards" and was happy to race. I have the big heart as he would say himself.

Anyway, as I said I apologise for the "blowup" comment, I was merely getting a dig in after you constantly telling me how much bigger you stack was at the final table!!! Chat to you later

.
absolutely you short stack, bubble fearing nit!

Mellor

Anyone going to the JackPot game tonight?
Continuing the run Joe?
i'll probably head in try to keep up appearances etc

Goodluck2me

Mellor wrote:

Anyone going to the JackPot game tonight?
Continuing the run Joe?
i'll probably head in try to keep up appearances etc

no i was at a careers night there being whored out for the evening. runner etc?

eoghan104

Anyone planning on playing the fitz Omaha game tonight?

Mellor

goodluck2me wrote:

no i was at a careers night there being whored out for the evening. runner etc?

27 runners, €1430 prize pool
I played far too lag at the start but got it back up to average
Made the final table as average stack
I have K10 in the button on a J,10,6 flop, I bet 2000 into the pot of 4000, the BB pushes for 8000ish, I make the call, he has j 2 and holds, down to 6/7k
push twice to take blinds,
then get a9 in sb, utg+1 calls, folded to me, I ship it, bb is 800, I have 8k ish
utg+1 calls with A 10
no 9 and im out on the bubble,

strewelpeter

Fitz EOM is tonight yeah?
What kind of a field does it get and what time does it kick off at, does anyone know ?