flaws (Spoilers)

The Bollox

well I'll put it down to a spoiler, but it's possible he taught something else like Snape going from Potions to DATDA

bounty_hunter

watna wrote:

I have another flaw. Voldemort tells Harry that he has not been able to keep a defence against the dark arts teacher for more than one year after he turned Voldemort down for the job. However, in book 1 Hagrid introduces Harry to Quirrell over the summer and says he teaches defence against the dark arts. Also, Voldemort (I can' remember when) says it was great that Quirell was wandering in Albania and was a teacher at Dumbledore's school. If Dumbledore could never keep a defence against the dark arts for more than one year did Quirell teach another subject before that and did Hagrid know he was moving? It doesn't really make sense though.

I always took that to mean that Quirrell had been appointed DADA teacher over the summer, and Hagrid was telling Harry that he would be his teacher when he started at Hogwarts. The same way as Harry was introduced to Slughorn over the summer as his new DADA teacher once he had accepted the position. Makes perfect sense to me.

Slutmonkey57b

Flaws in the last book?

Eh.. it was really really bad.
Still a good read, and satisfying end ot the series, but really the last book is just a case of dumping the rest of the plot on the floor and walking off rather than writing a book. The first books were full of character and humour. The last two were just - thin.

watna

I see your point, it can be explained that way I suppose, but when I first read them I always got the impression that Quirrel had been teaching DADA for a while.

Crumble Froo

yeah, id noticed that on as well...^

also... i cant remember what page (only another week and a half till i get my books back..) 500something, there's a typo where it says something like 'there' or 'they' when it should say something like 'those'... or something ot that effect.. i cant remember now...but i do remember textin my mate at the time going "zomg i found a typo!"

*marie*

In fairness though, for a plot as complex as it was running through all 7 books, the flaws are rare and minor! I think she did a great job, I'm re-reading them from book 1 now and I keep reading bits that will have some significance in future books and marvelling at how well she had it all planned out.

Tar.Aldarion

Flaw, ginger parent means all kids will be ginger.

Vegeta

Excuse my spelling

How did Dumbledore beat Grindelwald in a duel if the latter was the rightful owner of the elder wand which was after all un-beatable in a duel.

Though the book had a satisfying ending to a good series but the book as a stand alone piece of work wasn't great. It dragged in the middle while they were in the tent (although this could have been on purpose to make me as bored and annoyed as Harry, Ron and Hermione felt) and the last few Horcruxes were so rushed when they spent so long trying to get rid of 1.

Tar.Aldarion

Vegeta wrote:

Excuse my spelling

How did Dumbledore beat Grindelwald in a duel if the latter was the rightful owner of the elder wand which was after all un-beatable in a duel.

Well it might have been luck, we did not see it.
It may have just been that Dumbledore was the better Wizard.
The wand can only enhance what you already know, so say, if somebody like ayoung Hogwarts student had it, an adult could beat them.
Also, people were killed for it in the past, it may not have been the first time it was defeated.

Excuse my spelling

Your spelling is fine, your grammar is not.

Vegeta

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Well it might have been luck, we did not see it.
It may have just been that Dumbledore was the better Wizard.
The wand can only enhance what you already know, so say, if somebody like ayoung Hogwarts student had it, an adult could beat them.

But Dumbledore himself says they were very closely matched, admitting maybe he (Dumbledore) was slightly more skilled. So it was definitely not a case of one being vastly stronger than the other

It did after all fix Harry's wand which a wandlore expert said could not be fixed, this highlights the great powers of the wand.

Also, people were killed for it in the past, it may not have been the first time it was defeated.

Yes but were those people killed be other means like slitting their throat etc rather than in a heads up duel.

Your spelling is fine, your grammar is not.

Noooooo, my e-feelings

The Bollox

the wand enhances the powers of the spell, it doesn't make the weilder a better duellest. Dumbledore was a master dueller, with very little effort he kept Voldy, the most feared wizard in the world at the time, in check in the Atrium in OoTP (that's an awfull lot of 'in's I know, sorry)

Vegeta

So does that make Harry a better duellest than Voldy??

Tar.Aldarion

Vegeta wrote:

But Dumbledore himself says they were very closely matched, admitting maybe he (Dumbledore) was slightly more skilled. So it was definitely not a case of one being vastly stronger than the other

That was when they were friends, this is years later. I don't know how the duel went so it could only be guessing. It says Dumbledore knew he was the only one who could beat him, so he had to do it.

It did after all fix Harry's wand which a wandlore expert said could not be fixed, this highlights the great powers of the wand.
[/qyiote]
Yes, it's the uber-wand!

Yes but were those people killed be other means like slitting their throat etc rather than in a heads up duel.

Some may have been duelled, who knows eh!

Noooooo, my e-feelings

So does that make Harry a better duellest than Voldy??

Harry was teh rightful owner, so the wand was his.

Vegeta

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Harry was teh rightful owner, so the wand was his.

Yes but the bollox made the point that the wand only enhances spells not duelling skill (of its rightful owner)

That's beside the point anyway because in the final showdown with Voldemort, Harry a) was not holding the elder wand and b) defeated him.

So was Harry a better duellest than Voldemort?

EDIT: I can accept the bollox's explanation of why Dumbledore won the duel. This kind of takes away from the wands grandure though. Which makes it all the more complicated, why then would Voldemort seek the wand if he knew it was not all powerful. Instead of travelling across continents to get the elder wand, which he wanted to defeat Harry's wand, he could have just concentrated his efforts on Harry in the mean time and snapped his wand if he caught him.

I don't know I just didn't like the idea of the elder wand it just raised too many doubting questions for me.

Tar.Aldarion

Vegeta wrote:

Yes but the bollox made the point that the wand only enhances spells not duelling skill (of its rightful owner)

That's beside the point anyway because in the final showdown with Voldemort, Harry a) was not holding the elder wand and b) defeated him.

So was Harry a better duellest than Voldemort?

It doesn't mean he was a better dueller, it just means the wand would not hurt its own master I think. He defeated him becasue Voldemorte was holding a wand that wanted to obey Harry.
Any other normal wand and he could beat Harry I would say.

EDIT: I can accept the bollox's explanation of why Dumbledore won the duel. This kind of takes away from the wands grandure though. Which makes it all the more complicated, why then would Voldemort seek the wand if he knew it was not all powerful.

Ah, but he did not know.
He knew it enhanced power and thought it would take away his one weakness, his wands not being able to stand up to Harry's. If he had killed Draco, he would then be able to kill Harry as the Elder wand would enhance his already great skills.

Instead of travelling across continents to get the elder wand, which he wanted to defeat Harry's wand, he could have just concentrated his efforts on Harry in the mean time and snapped his wand if he caught him.

He thought all wands he used against Harry would break apart from the Elder wand.

I don't know I just didn't like the idea of the elder wand it just raised too many doubting questions for me.

I thought it was cool, Harry should have kept it, pf!

The Bollox

Vegeta wrote:

why then would Voldemort seek the wand if he knew it was not all powerful. Instead of travelling across continents to get the elder wand, which he wanted to defeat Harry's wand, he could have just concentrated his efforts on Harry in the mean time and snapped his wand if he caught him

as far as I can see the Elder Wand is to Harry Potter what the One Ring is to Lord Of The Rings: the thing everyone wants, because it is so heavilly connected with power and legend.

what I don't understand is why Harry's wand (phoenix pheather) obeys him when he was disarmed via Expelliarumus at least twice in the books. does it not say that once a wand is won from it's owner, it switches who it's master is? which is why Harry couldn't use the short black one (Ron won it) and Voldy couldn't properly use the Elder Wand because he didn't win it

Tar.Aldarion

In a similar way Hermione's worked better for Harry because she gave it to him.
It might be got to do with intent of the disarmming spell and how he got it back. Sure the wand choses it's master. Maybe the elder wand being so powerful only wanted teh best, so whoever defeated who, it chose.

jasonb

Here's how I see this...

Voldemort first had wand worries in Goblet Of Fire and Harry's and his wands 'joined' ( was it called Prior Incantatum or something like that? ). VoldemorT didn't understand this, cos at the time he didn't know about them sharing a core.

Voldemort half knew his own wand wouldn't work, but didn't know why, so he borrowed Lucius' wand. Then, when Harry's wand, 'of it's own accord', defended itself against Voldemort ( using Lucius' wand ) Voldemort has even more confused about the wands and their power.

He finally talked to the wand maker and found out about the shared core and decided to get the Elder Wand which would be the most powerful wand and he could defeat Harry using it. He even learned that he had to be the wand's 'rightful' owner for it to work properly, which is why he killed Snape.

Of course, Snape wasn't the owner, as while he'd killed Dumbldore, Draco had disarmed him first, thus becoming the owner. Then Harry had disarmed Draco, so the Elder Wand somehow 'knew' ( it's magic! ) that it's rightful owner was Harry.

In the final dual, if Voldemort was the rightful owner of the Elder Wand, I'm guessing Harry was toast. But as Harry was the rightful owner, the Elder Wand refused to hurt him and Voldemort's killing curse rebounded on himself.

So, it didn't really come down to who had the more powerful wand ( Voldemort did as it happens ) or who was the better dualist ( probably Voldemort but maybe not? ). It came down to Voldemort trying to use Harry's wand to kill him, which the wand wouldn't let him do.

That's how I read it anyhow...

J.

jasonb

As for not being the owner anymore of your wand if your disarmed, I assume you become owner again if the wand is given back to you after you were disarmed.

This way anyone who was disarmed during all the 7 books would still, in general, be the owner cos they got their wands back.

Draco stayed the owner after he disarmed Dumbledore because Dumbledore died. Harry stayed the owner after he disarmed Draco because Draco never got the wand back.

J.

Vegeta

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

I thought it was cool, Harry should have kept it, pf!

Oh don't get me wrong I am all for the hella powerful magical objects but the wand just doesn't sit right with me.

jasonb

Actually, now that I think of it, Voldemort talked to Ollivander before he took Lucius' wand, as that's why he took the wand ( cos he knew his own wouldn't work ).

But, I'm confused myself now. Why didn't Lucius' wand work? It was given to Voldemort willingly, so it should have worked properly for him. So why did Harry's wand 'act on its own accord'? Ideas anyone?

J.

Tar.Aldarion

His wand had a part of Voldemort in it and it thus recognised Voldemort. It performed magic Harry could not do against Voldemort, his own magice.
It happened when their twin cores joined, a part of Voldemort was transferred.

jasonb

Harry's wand had a part of Voldemort in it, and thus recognised Voldemort and defended Harry from him?

I think I know what you mean, basically his wand acted like it had the same core ( like in GoF ) becuase the two wizards had the same bit of soul, or something like that?

J.

jasonb

Yeah, I really gotta read that bit of the book again!

J.

Tar.Aldarion

When Harry and Voldemort met first, Harry's courage won, his wand overpowered Voldemort's. And in doing so, something happened between those wands, something that echoed the relationship between their masters.
Harry's wand imbibed some of the power and qualities of Voldemort’s wand that night, which is to say that it contained a little of Voldemort himself. So Harry's wand recognized Voldemort when he pursued Harry, recognized a man who was both kin and mortal enemy, and it regurgitated some of his own magic against him, magic much more powerful than anything Lucius’s wand had ever performed. Harry's wand now contained the power of his courage and of Voldemort’s own deadly skill: "What chance did that poor stick of Lucius Malfoy’s stand?"

Sleepy

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Flaw, ginger parent means all kids will be ginger.

The gene for Ginger hair is recessive.

Vegeta

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

When Harry and Voldemort met first, Harry's courage won, his wand overpowered Voldemort's. And in doing so, something happened between those wands, something that echoed the relationship between their masters.
Harry's wand imbibed some of the power and qualities of Voldemort’s wand that night, which is to say that it contained a little of Voldemort himself. So Harry's wand recognized Voldemort when he pursued Harry, recognized a man who was both kin and mortal enemy, and it regurgitated some of his own magic against him, magic much more powerful than anything Lucius’s wand had ever performed. Harry's wand now contained the power of his courage and of Voldemort’s own deadly skill: "What chance did that poor stick of Lucius Malfoy’s stand?"

all a bit "teh ghey" isn't it

anyone else wish Harry whooped Voldemort cos he was 100% badass

gubbie

Vegeta wrote:

So was Harry a better duellest than Voldemort?

EDIT: I can accept the bollox's explanation of why Dumbledore won the duel. This kind of takes away from the wands grandure though. Which makes it all the more complicated, why then would Voldemort seek the wand if he knew it was not all powerful. Instead of travelling across continents to get the elder wand, which he wanted to defeat Harry's wand, he could have just concentrated his efforts on Harry in the mean time and snapped his wand if he caught him.

I don't know I just didn't like the idea of the elder wand it just raised too many doubting questions for me.

Ah you're not looking at the full picture. the wand didn't work for Voldie, therefore it acted like any other wand. In fact Harry had the more powerful wand in the duel because he acquired his properly by stealing Draco's wand from the man himself, where as Voldie just took a wand from someone who didn't own it. I doubt Voldies worked anywhere near as well as Harrys but because he was such a powerful wizard, it wouldn't have affected him too much (plus he only ever really got to use it to kill Snape and then I'd say cos he believed it so much to be his, that he didn't realise that it wasn't working properly still... a bit like when Ron became lucky in the 6th book because he believed he was lucky). So even if the Elder wand didn't belong to Harry and was say Ron's, then Harry would still have the more powerful wand



Poor guy

bounty_hunter

watna wrote:

I have another flaw. Voldemort tells Harry that he has not been able to keep a defence against the dark arts teacher for more than one year after he turned Voldemort down for the job. However, in book 1 Hagrid introduces Harry to Quirrell over the summer and says he teaches defence against the dark arts. Also, Voldemort (I can' remember when) says it was great that Quirell was wandering in Albania and was a teacher at Dumbledore's school. If Dumbledore could never keep a defence against the dark arts for more than one year did Quirell teach another subject before that and did Hagrid know he was moving? It doesn't really make sense though.

Another extract from a web interview:
Adwait313: Has the jinx on the dada teaching post at hogwarts been lifted
J.K. Rowling: Yes, at last! Incidentally, I know some have asked about Quirrell with regard to this question. He was teaching at Hogwarts for more than a year, but NOT in the post of D.A.D.A. teacher. He was previously Muggle Studies professor.

So there you go, he did teach another subject before! And he was obviously appointed DADA teacher during the summer then.

The Bollox

bounty_hunter wrote:

Another extract from a web interview:
Adwait313: Has the jinx on the dada teaching post at hogwarts been lifted
J.K. Rowling: Yes, at last! Incidentally, I know some have asked about Quirrell with regard to this question. He was teaching at Hogwarts for more than a year, but NOT in the post of D.A.D.A. teacher. He was previously Muggle Studies professor.

So there you go, he did teach another subject before! And he was obviously appointed DADA teacher during the summer then.

is it not obvious to anyone else that she's making this shít up on the spot?