What happened there?

nesf

tallaght01 wrote:

Your personal ban-rate is probably the last statistic I will ever feel compelled to research. However, the amount of locked posts is a bit of a wind-up. It's one of the reasons I rarely use the forum any more. Though I'm sure many ppl would regard that as a positive step :P

PS, the fact that we are having this discussion does pretty much illustrate that A) the most insignificant parts of what people post get the most attention and This is not the epicentre for fine debate that the OP is looking for

No, it was just the bannings comment that it truly false. We (contrary to popular belief) don't ban a lot of people from AH relative to the amount of traffic it gets. The rest of your post I'll give a more structured reply to after I've had my cup of tea.

Franz Ferdinand

Stark wrote:

Seriously, your argument is about as valid as "You're a racist if you call a black person an asshole".

You would be if you called him a 'black asshole' which is in fact what Terry did. I'm surprised you still don't get the subtleties here.
Or maybe I'm not that surprised.......I would expect weak minded moderators to always back each other up, even in the face of blatant hypocrisy.

"Black Assholes" = Racism
"Roma Assholes" = Racism

Do you get it yet?

Karoma

nesf wrote:

Out of interest, how many people do you think I've banned in the last month?

Oh! Oh! ME! ME! ASK ME! A brazilian?!


I'm with Hobbes on this one - AH is just thread-inspired thread after another and usually anti-<insert minority>

Unfortunately, I'm not allowed cull AH as I'd like to because:
i) It has always been a place where one can hold pub-chat-like discourse - which, in my sad experience, usually contains some element of over-simplifying and/or racism.
ii) Nobody really wants Feedback filled with AH morons whining.
iii) I'm not a moral compass. I'll deal with the out-and-out racist remarks, repeat racist-thread-starters. Reported posts do make a big difference - please use the function.
iv) In terms of Roma specifically, I'm letting a lot of crap slide because of anectdotal nature and 'fair comment' - same goes for members of the travelling community and others.

I was accused of being the PC Police before for banning retards (Oh dear! Did I..?I did..!) that overstepped the mark ... some people realy just cannot tell where the line is...mneh. I'll leave the rant for another time.

Bottom line: There are a number of muppets on the radar as it is and they will be dealt with if they continue. Please use the report posts function - we do read them and we will act on them, if not immediately. We are trying to be as fair as possible to as many people as possible(If I'm given the nod, I'll happily cull.)


mountainyman: you've come a long way, babeé.

Terry

Franz Ferdinand wrote:

You would be if you called him a 'black asshole' which is in fact what Terry did. I'm surprised you still don't get the subtleties here.
Or maybe I'm not that surprised.......I would expect weak minded moderators to always back each other up, even in the face of blatant hypocrisy.

"Black Assholes" = Racism
"Roma Assholes" = Racism

Do you get it yet?

Want to point out where I was blatantly racist?

Did I at any point use the term "Roma assholes", and if so, where did I use it?
The thread is here.

How you do not see this:

Franz Ferdinand wrote:

1) Ban muslim religious schools. We have to force integration on immigrants if necessary.

as racist is beyond me.

Regarding Stark's comment.
Calling a black person an asshole is not racist if they are an asshole.
Calling them a "black asshole" is.
Do you see the difference?

Calling for the dismantlement of all muslim schools on the grounds that they breed terrorists is racist.
You implied in your last two posts in AH that all muslims are terrorists in your last two posts in AH.
Here and Here.


I don't even know why I'm arguing this point any more when the "close all muslim schools" remark you made pretty much sums up the whole arguement.

Franz Ferdinand

You're really losing the plot now Terry.

Terry wrote:

Want to point out where I was blatantly racist?

Um...I just did. Must I explain it again?
You used a derogatory term ('chancers') and directed it at a group of people whose race you specifically defined (Roma).

Using a derogatory term about a racial group is RACISM in anybodys book Terry.
QED.

How you do not see this:

1) Ban muslim religious schools. We have to force integration on immigrants if necessary.

as racist is beyond me.

Well for starters Terry, which RACE did I target with that comment?
Looking forward to your answer.

Calling for the dismantlement of all muslim schools on the grounds that they breed terrorists is racist.

No its not Terry, because RACISM refers (as is self evident) to RACE, not religion. Ergo YOU are a RACIST and I am not.

You implied in your last two posts in AH that all muslims are terrorists in your last two posts in AH.

Here and Here.

Well Tery, since you banned me from the thread I cannot actually see what you've linked to there. It could be the BNP homepage. So please clarify yourself by posting stuff in the page if you don't mind - we wouldn't want any confusion, would we.

I don't even know why I'm arguing this point any more when the "close all muslim schools" remark you made pretty much sums up the whole arguement.

Terry, I don't know if you've been keeping up with world affairs much, but just a few days ago the Pakistani Government 'closed' a few muslim 'schools' - and in a far less gentle manner than I would wish.
Now, are the Pakistani Government all 'racists' too?
Considering they are probably all (a) muslims, and (b) Pakistani - this must present you with an awful dilemma! What label can you plaster them with?
I'm sure you'll think of something.

Terry

Sorry.
Change "racist" to "Bigoted".

From there:
Yes, the Pakistani government closed a couple of schools because they were muslim.
It was just that simple.
Link
Of course, this had a huge effect on things happening here.

As for the AH links, you can log out and then view them or exchange the "www" for "muppet".

Hobbes

nesf wrote:

I'm not going to ban people for saying deport the ones that beg or ones that complain about Roma who beg,

Which is why I said SF-lite. Yea its not a problem. It becomes a problem when most threads start to gravitate to that type of comment over and over.

I mean how many times does the same person have to keep saying deport Romas in various threads?

Roma is just the Flavor of the month.

Franz Ferdinand wrote:

No its not Terry, because RACISM refers (as is self evident) to RACE, not religion. Ergo YOU are a RACIST and I am not.

Actually it doesn't always refer to race. Can also refer to "beliefs, practices, and institutions that discriminate against people based on their perceived or ascribed race".

Franz as an example is atypical of your normal bigot poster. - First post some crap without any evidence to back it up.
- When questioned attacks the poster either with strawman or ad hominen.
- Refuses to back up comments but continuing to berate other users.
- When stuff is posted to refute persons comments it is ignored and whole process starts again.

The issue isn't this poster, it is when other people believe without doing the research either.

Thats why we have stupid stories like free prams/cars/jobs/houses for [insert demographic].

mountainyman

I am appealling for more aggressive banning not complaining about my own banning which I did not object to then and do not object to now.

MM

Terry

Sorry, I missed this last night.



No.
I called that specific group of people 'chancers'.
Nowhere in any of my posts did I infer that all Roma are chancers.

mountainyman wrote:

I am appealling for more aggressive banning not complaining about my own banning which I did not object to then and do not object to now.

Again, I'll direct your attention to the report post function.

Bans are not handed out lightly and are dealt with on a case by case basis.
I'm not saying favouritism is employed. Quite the opposite in fact.
Regular users are often given a longer ban on the basis that they should know better.

Franz Ferdinand

Sorry.Change "racist" to "Bigoted".

Yes Terry, you got it wrong. :eek:
Nice of you to admit your error.

But you see Terry, it ain't that simple.
What you said is demonstably libellous. You've admitted it and attempted to retract it - in a rather unsatisfactory manner.

So, you now admit you used incorrect language when accusing me, and that I am not in fact a Racist at all?
Apology not accepted old boy!

It's rather a 'big thing' when you make these kind of accusations Terry, not something just to be swept aside as 'a mistake'.

Should I sue you personally, or the boards owners? (I'm deadly serious, I assure you!)

When you make such serious and damaging allegations I would suggest you should actually know what you are talking about, and can stand over the allegation. You should, patently, at least understand the definition of the term you are using if you wish to sling mud in that manner.

You clearly demonstrated you don't understand the meaning of the word 'Racism' - and you've had to switch to the term 'Bigot' now - (more on that anon).

No wonder you don't see the racism in your own comments about the Roma Terry.You clearly don't know what the term means - yet you use it liberally and incorrectly to tar anyone who disagrees with you.

So which of the above is it Terry? Are you simply ignorant of language, or were you in fact being intentionally vindictive in your desire to ban me?

You built a case for banning me around what you now admit is 'an error'.
I would suggest you rectify your error by unbanning me immediately.
I'm offerring you a face saving compromise here.

Regarding your latest slur - Bigotry.
My goodness, you do have a nasty tongue!

I already asserted that I am an Atheist.
I find it difficult to see how an Atheist can be a Bigot - since my dissaproval of religion is not reserved for any one religion, but for all of them. With the possible exception of Buddhism.

Thus, to be Bigotted I would probably have to carry a spiteful prejudice against over 50% of the population. Is that really credible Terry? That you truly imagine I go around hating half the population because they believe in God and I don't?

You still haven't dealt with the issue of your own racist comments about those 'Roma chancers' as you called them.
What is the word for someone who invents faults in everyone else, but denies their own errors?

Its just my opinion Terry - that God does not exist.
I'm no more bigotted than you are racist.

From there:
Yes, the Pakistani government closed a couple of schools because they were muslim.
It was just that simple.
Link
Of course, this had a huge effect on things happening here.

It was 'that simple' Terry? What huge effect did it have here?
Then whats your problem with it?

Why are you against the integration of muslim kids into Irish society Terry? Why do you advocate religious apartheid in the Irish education system?

As for the AH links, you can log out and then view them or exchange the "www" for "muppet".

Well, I do believe that was a gratuitous insult toward me Terry! You just keep digging that hole deeper and deeper!

I can tell this is all getting too stressful for you.

But its really a bad example to set as a Moderator.

Don't the rules say something about abusive language in postings? I'm sure they do!

Maybe you should report/censor yourself Terry.

In fact Terry - maybe you are unfit to be a moderator, and should just resign.

MooseJam

Franz Ferdinand wrote:

Well, I do believe that was a gratuitous insult toward me Terry! You just keep digging that hole deeper and deeper!

muppet.boards.ie is actually a genuine link, he wasn't trying to insult you

Franz Ferdinand

MooseJam wrote:

muppet.boards.ie is actually a genuine link, he wasn't trying to insult you

Since I've never posted anything on that forum, perhaps you could explain what relevance my visiting it might have to this discussion?
And yes - he WAS trying to insult me - and continues to do so.
I think I deserve an apology.

tbh

that forum is this forum, just a different way of getting there. That's how it's releva....oh. never mind. See you in a month.

MooseJam

Franz Ferdinand wrote:

Since I've never posted anything on that forum, perhaps you could explain what relevance my visiting it might have to this discussion?
And yes - he WAS trying to insult me - and continues to do so.
I think I deserve an apology.

its the same forum if you click on the link you will see that, he was pointing out a method you could use to read the forum as you are currently banned, it just happens to be called muppet, it was called muppet before you came here and it will still be called muppet after you leave

joseph brand

http://nigeldickinson.com/gallery/slovakiaroma

Link contains some lovely photos of Roma people in Slovakia. The Slovakians love the Roma people, and think they are 'Friendly'.

Terry

Thank you, Ruu.

Victor

Franz Ferdinand wrote:

Regarding your latest slur - Bigotry.
My goodness, you do have a nasty tongue!

I already asserted that I am an Atheist.
I find it difficult to see how an Atheist can be a Bigot - since my dissaproval of religion is not reserved for any one religion, but for all of them. With the possible exception of Buddhism.

You are a bigot. Pick an option.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bigot

big·ot –noun a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

big·ot One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

bigot noun a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own

bigot A person who is religiously attached to a particular computer, language, operating system, editor, or other tool (see religious issues).

Terry

I searched both Roma threads and the word "Chancers" does not appear in either of them.

I think this subject is probably best left alone now anyway.
Ban given, thread locked.

_blank_

Franz Ferdinand wrote:

Should I sue you personally, or the boards owners? (I'm deadly serious, I assure you!)

Threat of legal action?

Hmmmmm...nice knowing you bud.

tbh wrote:

that forum is this forum, just a different way of getting there.

So are

http://imrantingfornoreason.boards.ie

and

http://imbannedforever.boards.ie

tbh wrote:

That's how it's releva....oh. never mind. See you in a month.

Or never.

Franz Ferdinand wrote:

Since I've never posted anything on that forum, perhaps you could explain what relevance my visiting it might have to this discussion?And yes - he WAS trying to insult me - and continues to do so.
I think I deserve an apology.

I'm soooooooo sorrrrrry.

mike65

Franz as an example is atypical of your normal bigot poster. - First post some crap without any evidence to back it up.
- When questioned attacks the poster either with strawman or ad hominen.
- Refuses to back up comments but continuing to berate other users.
- When stuff is posted to refute persons comments it is ignored and whole process starts again.

I think you must have meant to to type a typical, atypical is the opposite of course.

I still don't see what FF said to warrant the ban tbh. Sounding off in a bull-headed fashion is'nt a crime yet on AH is it?

Mike.

Hobbes

Franz Ferdinand wrote:

Since I've never posted anything on that forum, perhaps you could explain what relevance my visiting it might have to this discussion?

For the newbies in the audience. Using the other URL allows you to read the forums while logged out, while the normal URL you can use while logged in.

I think you must have meant to to type a typical, atypical is the opposite of course.

oops.

Stark

Hobbes wrote:

For the newbies in the audience. Using the other URL allows you to read the forums while logged out, while the normal URL you can use while logged in.

Doesn't work anymore since Regi changed things so the hostname doesn't make a difference.

The Corinthian

So is the criticism of any ethnic group a sacred cow then?

It would appear to me that most criticisms against the Rom are due to culture as opposed to anything that is intrinsically related to their racial backgrounds and that anyone, regardless of their genetic heritage, would be prone to the same behavior if raised in that same culture.

Apparently its all about race after all. I'll be sure not to say anything that might offend them next time they try to lift my wallet.

Terry

mike65 wrote:

I think you must have meant to to type a typical, atypical is the opposite of course.

I still don't see what FF said to warrant the ban tbh. Sounding off in a bull-headed fashion is'nt a crime yet on AH is it?

Mike.

Read from here to see why I banned him.

Corinthian, Franz Ferdinand wasn't banned for ranting about Roma.
His beef was with muslims. See link above.

It's nice to keep things fair and balanced, but not in the fox news sense.

The Corinthian

Terry wrote:

Corinthian, Franz Ferdinand wasn't banned for ranting about Roma.
His beef was with muslims. See link above.

I didn't suggest it was - I was really replying the the original topic of this thread which was about Rom gypsies.

Tar.Aldarion

Wheel of morality: spin, spin, spin...

Terry

The Corinthian wrote:

I didn't suggest it was - I was really replying the the original topic of this thread which was about Rom gypsies.

Sorry. My mistake.

In answer to your question, you can bitch and moan all you want about gypsies and whoever else is currently getting your goat.
Just don't use terms that can be deemed racist or...
Fúck it. Just read the charter.

mike65

Nope I still don't see what material is worthy of a ban.

Mike.

Terry

Sorry. I linked that incorrectly.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=53617531#post53617531

When asked where he got the Q and A in the post I previously linked to, he pretty much said it was his own wording.

In the Q and A he basically says that all muslims are terrorists.
This is why I banned him.

EDIT: Also the stuff he followed it up with about banning all Muslim schools.

(note: that was only the AH ban. The 1 month site ban was for threatening legal action against boards.ie).

Boston

He was banned for being a useless waste of flesh. I stand by terry on this one.