Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

BryanF

deandean wrote: »

Hi, I have a query about an objection I am writing up to send into Dublin city council about a proposed development next door to me. My house would end up overlooked (which it is not at the moment) and I would lose most of my view. My house would be significantly devalued as a result.
So my question is, is devaluation of my property a valid ground for making an objection to a planning application? I have looked up the guidelines and see no reference to it. Many thanks for any advice.

Over looking, Loss of light, loss of views, over intensification of the site. But not devaluation

looksee

Anyone any experience with this situation? I am applying for planning shortly to build a house on a site. I also want to ask for permission to put a temporary mobile home on a different part of the site to live in while the house is being built. Would I be better to apply all on the one application, or could I make a separate application just for the mobile home? Is there any way of speeding up the mobile home application?

looksee

Just noticed the posts I made last year about the difficulties of sorting planning. Yes I was being very obtuse and I recognise that the questions were difficult to answer. Up-date is that I gave up on the first County as they were being totally unhelpful, I am now in a different country (Tipp) and while I have not got my planning permission yet, its underway and the Planning office have been a good deal more helpful. If they refuse me in the end I shall come back and revoke that statement

Donald Trump

Hypothetical question. Related to rural or one-off housing.



I understand that a person can sometimes get permission on the land of their parents or relatives. But I also think there is a rule/standard now that they want such applications to share existing house gateways where possible.



What would happen in the scenario that a house is built in the field next door, driveway is shared but the person building the new house brings an extra driveway in later from the existing field gate and stops using, or blocks up their access to the shared driveway?


What would happen then if this went on for years and then the house was later to be sold (along with the field)? Possibly without the shared access, if possible. Or alternatively if the parents/relatives house was sold?



Or can they prevented from using/driving out the "field gate"?

Poor Uncle Tom

Donald Trump wrote: »

Hypothetical question. Related to rural or one-off housing.



I understand that a person can sometimes get permission on the land of their parents or relatives. But I also think there is a rule/standard now that they want such applications to share existing house gateways where possible.

It depends on the development plan for the area, some are easier than others to deal with. If you are developing a site for family out of a farm, there should be no need to share services. If you are say developing a cottage acre with an additional family house the planners may insist on a shared entrance to make it harder for the property to be split up.

Donald Trump wrote: »

What would happen in the scenario that a house is built in the field next door, driveway is shared but the person building the new house brings an extra driveway in later from the existing field gate and stops using, or blocks up their access to the shared driveway?

I presume you mean without the benefit of planning permission? Then that is unauthorised development and if enforcement becomes aware of it you'll be made sort it out (and could be fined and/or get a prison term as well as a criminal record, all listed on enforcement papers)

Donald Trump wrote: »

What would happen then if this went on for years and then the house was later to be sold (along with the field)? Possibly without the shared access, if possible. Or alternatively if the parents/relatives house was sold?

Any buyers engineer/surveyor will highlight the unauthorised development which will have to be sorted out before a sale goes through. Keep in mind that the planning authority may not grant retention for any unauthorised development leaving the costs with you to put everything back in order.

Donald Trump wrote: »

Or can they prevented from using/driving out the "field gate"?

If they are made aware of it within 12 and a half years of the planning permission or 7 years and two months of he actual unauthorised development works whichever is the later, then they can prevent it..

Ralocon

First time poster here...
Currently exploring the possibility of converting a 2 car detached garage into a small house.
The front wall of the garage runs adjacent to the back wall of the main house (my parents house). It's quite large. There is a toilet and wash basin already plumbed in. It also has a loft area. The area is semi-rural.

I have a very low level understanding of planning regs so am aware there are quite a few obsticals in my way but I am also told there are ways around everything.

Giving the current housing crisis this idea seems very logical.

Would love some advise from those in the know or who may have first hand experience with such a project.

Poor Uncle Tom

Ralocon wrote: »

First time poster here...
Currently exploring the possibility of converting a 2 car detached garage into a small house.
The front wall of the garage runs adjacent to the back wall of the main house (my parents house). It's quite large. There is a toilet and wash basin already plumbed in. It also has a loft area. The area is semi-rural.

I have a very low level understanding of planning regs so am aware there are quite a few obsticals in my way but I am also told there are ways around everything.

Giving the current housing crisis this idea seems very logical.

Would love some advise from those in the know or who may have first hand experience with such a project.

First time poster! read the forum charter please. Then get yourself a good local professional to advise you.

Donald Trump

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

I presume you mean without the benefit of planning permission? Then that is unauthorised development and if enforcement becomes aware of it you'll be made sort it out (and could be fined and/or get a prison term as well as a criminal record, all listed on enforcement papers)

Thanks for the response. I was just curious about the mechanics of it.


If I own the field, I can drive in the gate and up around the back of the hypothetical house in my tractor/jeep if I want to. If I lash a few stones or tar into the field to make a bit of a laneway, is that illegal?

Is putting a lane into your field something that technically needs permission and just that nobody bothers with it?


(I'm not trying to ask how to break the law, I'm asking what the relevant laws would be and how they would be implemented)

Ralocon

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

First time poster! read the forum charter please. Then get yourself a good local professional to advise you.

First and last on the back of this response. No harm intended.

Poor Uncle Tom

Donald Trump wrote: »

Thanks for the response. I was just curious about the mechanics of it.


If I own the field, I can drive in the gate and up around the back of the hypothetical house in my tractor/jeep if I want to. If I lash a few stones or tar into the field to make a bit of a laneway, is that illegal?

Is putting a lane into your field something that technically needs permission and just that nobody bothers with it?


(I'm not trying to ask how to break the law, I'm asking what the relevant laws would be and how they would be implemented)

Simple answer: It's down to zonings and exemptions for those zones.


If you get planning permission for your house on its own site in a rural setting you are effectively changing the zoning of that site of ground from agricultural to housing (may vary depending on development plan). This planning permission will come with its own conditions. Once complete there are a series of exempted developments you can carry out without planning permission, S.I. No. 600 of 2001. No place on those exemptions does it allow you to change the entrance location to a dwelling house.


If you have an entrance to a field, outside of the site of the house, and it is being used to service the lands onto which it accesses then there are exemptions which apply to this entrance and lands which do not apply to the house (example Class 9 of Part 1 of Schedule 2 of S.I. No. 600 of 2001 which allows for the construction, erection, renewal or replacement of any gate or gateway up to 2m in height).


The entrance to the field can not be used to access the house because the field entrance is not part of the curtilage of the dwelling house.

Poor Uncle Tom

Ralocon wrote: »

No harm intended.

Likewise.


No internet forum can possible substitute for on-site professional advice. Converting a garage for habitable purposes will depend on so many varients that anyone here couldn't possibly direct you without knowing a lot more information, information you probably don't want on a public forum.


Then you mention "....ways around everything....." where the forum charter here has specific direction in that regard!

BryanF

Ralocon wrote: »

First and last on the back of this response. No harm intended.

Planning is possible for what you describe (building regs will make it an expensive renovation)

it would be easier if this was a granny flat connected to the house.- No separate parking/driveway/lower council fees/less onerous regulations

Donald Trump

Suppose I have a 20 acre field that has 100m of road frontage. (Or whatever is necessary).

Now if the field only has one gateway onto the road, would I have to use that entrance if I wanted to apply for planning permission (assuming I was otherwise qualified for it)? Or could I apply to have a separate entrance opened up? Or would I apply using the existing gateway for the site and try to apply to open up another gate for the field later?

The existing gateway is the only way into the field and I don't own any adjacent land that I could use to access the rest of the field if I used the gateway for a house.

sydthebeat

Donald Trump wrote: »

Suppose I have a 20 acre field that has 100m of road frontage. (Or whatever is necessary).

Now if the field only has one gateway onto the road, would I have to use that entrance if I wanted to apply for planning permission (assuming I was otherwise qualified for it)? Or could I apply to have a separate entrance opened up? Or would I apply using the existing gateway for the site and try to apply to open up another gate for the field later?

The existing gateway is the only way into the field and I don't own any adjacent land that I could use to access the rest of the field if I used the gateway for a house.

the existing entrance makes absolutely no difference at all

Donald Trump

sydthebeat wrote: »

the existing entrance makes absolutely no difference at all

Oh,


I thought that if you needed to break a new gateway there was extra complication.

sydthebeat

Donald Trump wrote: »

Oh,


I thought that if you needed to break a new gateway there was extra complication.

There's a world of difference between an agricultural entrance and a domestic entrance.

The existing agricultural entrance makes no difference at all when applying for a domestic entrance

Big Sis

Hi. Mods, I understand if they have to be removed but before finding this thread, I posted on a couple of other threads in this sub-forum looking for info on finding planning consultants here on the boards, and for recommendations for a planning consultant in the Mid-West.
We want to engage expert help in preparing an observation to the council in relation to an (as yet un-submitted) planning application by our neighbour for an un-exempted structure they built without full disclosure to us, that butts up against and in part overshoots the boundary wall, that overlooks our front garden and living room, and totally overshadows our living room window and the garden seating area. As if that wasn't bad enough, the overlooking window oversails our boundary when open.
We also welcome any advice that boards.ie members can give us.
Thanks in advance.

Reputable Rog

Big Sis wrote: »

Hi. Mods, I understand if they have to be removed but before finding this thread, I posted on a couple of other threads in this sub-forum looking for info on finding planning consultants here on the boards, and for recommendations for a planning consultant in the Mid-West.
We want to engage expert help in preparing an observation to the council in relation to an (as yet un-submitted) planning application by our neighbour for an un-exempted structure they built without full disclosure to us, that butts up against and in part overshoots the boundary wall, that overlooks our front garden and living room, and totally overshadows our living room window and the garden seating area. As if that wasn't bad enough, the overlooking window oversails our boundary when open.
We also welcome any advice that boards.ie members can give us.
Thanks in advance.

If you could be a bit more succinct in your description you might get some comments that may help you.
1) What do you mean by 'butts up and oversails'?
2) How do you know the development is not exempt and what is it any event?
3) If you think an unauthorised development has taken place you can report it to the local planning department, you cannot however comment on an application that has not been submitted.

Big Sis

Reputable Rog wrote: »

If you could be a bit more succinct in your description you might get some comments that may help you.
1) What do you mean by 'butts up and oversails'?
2) How do you know the development is not exempt and what is it any event?
3) If you think an unauthorised development has taken place you can report it to the local planning department, you cannot however comment on an application that has not been submitted.

Thank you, Rog. To clarify:

1)
Butts up - touches the boundary wall.
Oversails- breaches the boundary when open.

2)
I researched it and had it confirmed by the council. It is a room extension and veranda style porch to the front of the property. For our issues with the development, see my initial post.

3)
We do; we have; we want to be prepared for when the planning application is submitted.

I hope this has made it more succinct.

Sis.

Reputable Rog

So you mean it abuts the boundary wall and it overhangs.
Whilst it would have been polite to consult you they are under no obligation to do so.
Overlooking your front garden is largely irrelevant, the window is an issue and must be removed and obviously as it's to the front in contravenes article 4(1) H of the planning regs.
Have the council issued a warning lettter and have you received a notification of same?
I wouldn't be wasting money on a consultatant if you can clearly explain your concerns in the objection.
It might be worth your while contacting a councillor to make reps on your behalf.
Where in the mid west are you located?

Big Sis

Reputable Rog wrote: »

So you mean it abuts the boundary wall and it overhangs.
Whilst it would have been polite to consult you they are under no obligation to do so.
Overlooking your front garden is largely irrelevant, the window is an issue and must be removed and obviously as it's to the front in contravenes article 4(1) H of the planning regs.
Have the council issued a warning lettter and have you received a notification of same?
I wouldn't be wasting money on a consultatant if you can clearly explain your concerns in the objection.
It might be worth your while contacting a councillor to make reps on your behalf.
Where in the mid west are you located?

Hi Rog, thank you for your response.

Yes, that's what I meant.

Woould you mind explaining how the issue of overlooking can be irrelevant yet the window still be a cause for concern?

I have received verbal confirmation from the council that a planning inspector has written to our neighbours informing them that planning must be applied for.

We are not confident that we can put together a clear and comprehensive observation and we believe that it would be wise to engage professional help.

We have spoken with a local councillor.

I would rather not make our specific location public.

Regards,
Sis

Reputable Rog

That's not proper procedure, they have to issue a warning letter and you must be furnished with written confirmation of same and alsu any subsequent actin of Inaction in succession to said Warning Letter.
Overlooking is not a Planning matter but a ground floor window must be 1 metre from a party boundary, most development overlooks something or another.

Big Sis

Reputable Rog wrote: »

That's not proper procedure, they have to issue a warning letter and you must be furnished with written confirmation of same and alsu any subsequent actin of Inaction in succession to said Warning Letter.
Overlooking is not a Planning matter but a ground floor window must be 1 metre from a party boundary, most development overlooks something or another.

Thank You, Rog.
Regards,
Sis

clio_16v

Is it true that the "local needs" for planning is abolished or going to be abolished?

sydthebeat

clio_16v wrote: »

Is it true that the "local needs" for planning is abolished or going to be abolished?

no

a0sytfq278ejzu

hi all

to those in the know, i intend to buy a site for a new build
i am not from the area but the site is in "an area of population decline" am i right in thinking the "locals only rule " does not apply in this instance?

thanks very much

JimmyMW

Greta Panicky Armadillo wrote: »

hi all

to those in the know, i intend to buy a site for a new build
i am not from the area but the site is in "an area of population decline" am i right in thinking the "locals only rule " does not apply in this instance?

thanks very much

Very much incorrect to the best of my knowledge, outside the settlement boundaries housing local needs will always apply

sydthebeat

Greta Panicky Armadillo wrote: »

hi all

to those in the know, i intend to buy a site for a new build
i am not from the area but the site is in "an area of population decline" am i right in thinking the "locals only rule " does not apply in this instance?

thanks very much

youre most likely correct but you need to check the county development plan to be certain.

I see sheep

Hi,

Looking for some advice please.

We had a agreed for the sale of a site but it was objected to and An Bord Pleanala overturned the local council's decision and had refused planning permission.

We are the site owners and a third party had agreed to buy the site depending on getting planning permission but that has fallen through now obviously.

Pretty gutted tbh, we were going to use the money for a deposit on a house, is it worth appealing the decision ourselves now and trying to sell it again after?

If not what do you do with a useless site??

Reason for refusal of permission is they say it is a flood risk. (We disagree).

Planning permission was granted previously in 2004 but the time period to build a house expired that time.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

sydthebeat

I see sheep wrote: »

Reason for refusal of permission is they say it is a flood risk. (We disagree).
.

you need to do a lot more than just disagree... you need to prove its not in a flood zone.

the council has access to some very detailed flooding maps so if they say its in a flood zone, then you can take it that it pretty much is.