Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

bemak

Metric Tensor wrote: »

Yup - identifying the land-holding is par for the course - an OS Map with a blue line has sufficed for me on most occasions. Once or twice we were asked for Land Registry proof.

I've seen people use screengrabs from the land registry website too!

sydthebeat

bemak wrote: »

I've seen people use screengrabs from the land registry website too!

You can print directly from the land direct site. No need to screen grab

bemak

sydthebeat wrote: »

You can print directly from the land direct site. No need to screen grab

Better again, had presumed I'd have to purchase them. Thanks

lillycakes2

How do you know if a planning application is going well/ going bad? (planning permission to build a house)

sydthebeat

lillycakes2 wrote: »

How do you know if a planning application is going well/ going bad? (planning permission to build a house)

You don't until you get a decision

arctictree

lillycakes2 wrote: »

How do you know if a planning application is going well/ going bad? (planning permission to build a house)

You ask your councilor to talk to the planner and find out.

looksee

I am looking to purchase a property (existing house) on which I propose to run a small tourism business that will have low impact in terms of building. However having identified a property I need to move ahead pretty quickly, and it would be pointless purchasing if pp were out of the question.

I have checked zoning and the property is just outside (ie immediately beside) the nearest zoned area. I am prepared to make all accommodations in terms of water, sewerage, visual etc, but I need to know if the basic possibility is there.

I asked for a pre-planning meeting but was told over two weeks ago that my request had been assigned to a planner, but I have heard nothing. I contacted them today and was told that the chances of getting a meeting within a couple of months were not likely.

I will lose this property if I do not progress with the purchase, but it would be useless to me if I were completely refused planning. In the meantime if it is sold from under me I will have to start all over again.

Is there any solution to this?

JimmyMW

looksee wrote: »

I am looking to purchase a property (existing house) on which I propose to run a small tourism business that will have low impact in terms of building. However having identified a property I need to move ahead pretty quickly, and it would be pointless purchasing if pp were out of the question.

I have checked zoning and the property is just outside (ie immediately beside) the nearest zoned area. I am prepared to make all accommodations in terms of water, sewerage, visual etc, but I need to know if the basic possibility is there.

I asked for a pre-planning meeting but was told over two weeks ago that my request had been assigned to a planner, but I have heard nothing. I contacted them today and was told that the chances of getting a meeting within a couple of months were not likely.

I will lose this property if I do not progress with the purchase, but it would be useless to me if I were completely refused planning. In the meantime if it is sold from under me I will have to start all over again.

Is there any solution to this?

There is no guarantees with planning until you have a grant of planning issued to you, therefore you will always be taking a risk with a property like this given the circumstances of the purchase. All you can do is hire a local planning consultant who is well versed in local planning and have s/he review the property and offer an opinion on the potential of the planning required and proceed on this basis.

Alternatively you could get permission from the owner to lodge an outline or full planning application on their property for the desired application, dependent on the sale you could very well have an answer from the planning department prior to the sale going through. A good consultant could have an outline application in before the end of next week.

looksee

Thank you for your reply. I realise there are no guarantees with planning, but if I could just get the opinion - 'there is no chance you will get planning there' or 'there's a reasonable possibility you might'. I did not know there were planning consultants, I will investigate that, thank you.

There is no chance of contacting the vendor, its killing the EA to make any contact at all, mostly he is telling me 'someone else has done a survey last week' and 'there's no point offering less than x, they won't accept it' and we can't get a key for that and we don't know where that is' In spite of the previous surveys and apparent enthusiasm for the property! Since it is impossible to believe a word that an EA utters I believe he is making it up as he goes along.

Metric Tensor

There are specialist "planning consultants" but in your case a planning consultant should read as "agents who do a lot of planning applications in that particular area" - could be an architect, engineer, architectural technician, ... etc, etc. Familiarity with what's going on in the area (and ideally with the type of application/development you plan) is what you need because you'll essentially be asking them to give their best guess at what you might achieve from a planning application.

looksee

Yes, after giving it some thought I came to much the same conclusion myself, and I have someone who might be able to help with that.

Hexen

Hi,

Neighbour adjoining our semi-d wants to build an one-storey extension over their existing garage. The wall of the garage is a party wall with our property and this wall will have to be underpinned. They approached us seeking consent for this, showed us provisional drawings of proposed building works, and wrote up an agreement that they requested that we signed. They were anxious to have a full agreement in place before applying for planning permission.

A condition of this initial agreement was that in the event that we built a similar extension we would reimburse them 50 per cent of the costs of the underpinning.

We did not sign this agreement due to this condition and also because there was nothing in the agreement regarding our garage roof which would necessarily be damaged during the building works, or, indeed any of our concerns. However, as they said they were keen to go ahead, we wrote a letter giving our consent in principle to the planning application. This contained several caveats to the effect that we did not rescind our rights under any relevant legislation and that it was our understanding that no building works would proceed until there was an agreement in place regarding the party wall and any relevant particulars relating to the building works.

Neighbour now returns to us saying that their architect has said that because of how we worded this agreement in principle DCC will seek clarification of the additional agreement before granting permission and it would therefore be better to get a full agreement hammered out before planning application.

I have two questions:

1. I don't want to commit to paying for 50 per cent of the the underpinning costs in the event that we, at some stage, build a similar extension (we have no plans to do so but I really don't want to make any kind of financial commitment as a result of their extension). Is this reasonable?
2. Do they really need or is it advisable that a full and detailed agreement is in place with us before they submit their planning application?

DOCARCH

@Hexen

For planning, there is no requirement for any agreement to be in place prior to your neighbour submitting for planning, and, no requirement, from a planning point of view, after/if they were granted planning permission. The planners will not come back looking for such an agreement.

This is a civil matter between you and your neighbour and the planners will not get involved.

The suggestion of you neighbour that you pay for 50% of the wall, in due course, is a bit cheeky, in my opinion!

sydthebeat

They do not need your permission

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101816178&postcount=14

Metric Tensor

It is strongly in your interest to get the agreement set in stone now. Particularly if they think they need the agreement in writing now.

Once the planning permission is granted many people seem to think (wrongly) that they can do whatever they want. Your only option to stop them at that point is through a legal route.

So make the deals now - whilst they think they are dependant on your agreement!

looksee

Back again.

Does anyone know any Planning Consultants who will accept one-off cases?

I have done a lot more reading and trying to figure out the local development plan, and it genuinely looks as though there is no provision for what I want to do. At least, if I were a farmer I could use some of the land I had and do pretty much anything within reason, but you can't apparently buy land and use it in the same way.

Anyway between the Local Development Plan rules, zoning, and the staggering number of restrictions it appears that I need someone to say 'this is what you should look for' rather than what the Planning Office is insisting - that I have to have a site in mind and ask about it. So I think I need to employ a planning consultant.

Next problem, I have put feelers out and am getting no response. It seems they would rather redevelop town centres than get involved with one-off issues.

So, has anyone had any dealings with a Planning Consultant (preferably in the south-east) who will look at small cases?

Meanwhile I continue to wait for the Planning Department to get back to me....

Metric Tensor

Are you from the area?

What you are looking for is a local architectural technician, engineer or architect .... the "jobbing" sort (no offense meant here - I'm the jobbing sort myself) rather than the glamour big names.

A few options:
1. Grab a copy of the local newspaper and find the page with the planning adverts. Look at the names of the agents submitting those ads and google them for phone numbers - give a few a ring.
2. Log on to the planning website of the council and click on a few planning permissions nearby. The names and details of the agents who submitted them will be listed on the paperwork. If you find a planning permission like yours call that agent. Otherwise get the names of ones who do quite a few in your locality.
3. If you know anyone in the area who built a house ask them who did their planning permissions.

Based on your previous post what you are looking for is a "best guess" from someone who knows the planners and the area. It won't be much more than a guess because short of applying for planning permission you won't know. Can you purchase the property subject to planning?

looksee

Thanks Metric Tensor. I have been on the planning website - the main problem is that my issue is not just building a house. The only similar ones I can find are on farms and as I say, they seem to have a head start in having the land, and the enthusiasm of Teagasc etc for farmers getting involved in non-farming ventures. I have applied for planning myself before now, but it was always straightforward.

At this stage I have read the Local Development plans, the National Development plan (which is 70 pages of enthusiastic waffle about all sorts of things are going to happen that planning does not apparently know about), the local Planning website, Land Direct, all the aspects of the Geohive site that tell you about flood plains and wells and percolation etc. It appears that unless you have had land since 2005 and are wanting to build a house for an immediate relative there is no possibility of anyone else building anywhere except in a town. I have no idea where the NDP is going to achieve all the projects it is contemplating.

I conclude I need a Planning Consultant. I did try to talk to an architect but he just dismissed it with 'well if its agricultural land you won't get planning' but without any interest in discussing any alternatives.

sydthebeat

Have you spoken to the planner?

There are free preplanning clinics available

Metric Tensor

looksee - can I ask for more specifics as to what type of enterprise you are proposing?

Have you considered approaching a local farmer and "getting into bed" with him/her?

looksee

The free pre-planning clinics take - quote - a couple of months to organise. Just today another option has been taken off the market/sold while I am trying to get information.

Yes I have looked at the local farmer option, but for a number of reasons it would not be feasible.

sydthebeat

youre being deliberately obtuse.
can you just tell us what you want to do??

is it something like glamping? adventure parks? paint ball etc?
if we knew we could possibly point you to previous applications in different areas which you could use as a template.

but to answer you initial question.... yes, planning consultants do take on "one off" cases.... in fact the vast majority of their work would be one off cases.

looksee

Update - sorry I am being obtuse, we have had reactions of 'what a great idea' from other agencies than planning, and we don't want to spread it around too much

Anyway, quite by chance I have found someone who can help me sort the problems It is all looking much clearer now and there does seem to be a path we can follow. Thank you all for your help, there were some very useful points made, your help is appreciated!

RockBadger

Hi. Sorry if I'm jumping in here or in wrong thread, move me if so! I think I'm asking the obvious here: Neighbours down the road built a house and garage which is now complete. I was always suspicious as I never recall seeing a site notice up. Plus, there is no records of it online on the planning applications for our area. Is there any other logical reason for this?

TheBigGreen

Hi. Our planning application due date is today 14/11. Should my builder who did the application for us be expecting something today in the post/email or phone call?

Or will a decision be made in the coming days. It's the Cork County Council.

Thanks.

rayjdav

TheBigGreen wrote: »

Hi. Our planning application due date is today 14/11. Should my builder who did the application for us be expecting something today in the post/email or phone call?

Or will a decision be made in the coming days. It's the Cork County Council.

Thanks.

Not today. They can take a couple of days to issue the letter. Decision has to be made within the time though, its letting you know that takes extra. Ring them if you want to know outcome!!

TheBigGreen

rayjdav wrote: »

Not today. They can take a couple of days to issue the letter. Decision has to be made within the time though, its letting you know that takes extra. Ring them if you want to know outcome!!

Rang them and it's been granted, letter in the post. Thanks.

MackDeToaster

Hi, wondering if anyone might have any info re. the extent of curtilage? Am part-time farming land I own, laid out in multiple fields, amongst which is a listed house in ruins. This is basically at the centre of four of the fields, ie they all come up to a side of it.
Trying to build a home here with the wife, we don't have a house, both moved from opposite sides of the country to get hitched and live together, and have been living apart, with our parents a good driveaway from our land as can't afford to rent while trying to save to build. We basically need a home on our land.
Defeated so far with preferred site as this was in one of the four fields near listed ruin and the CC are adding conditions and requirements for the listed building which we cannot meet either timewise or financially, and so far we're already over fourteen months at this with nothing to show for it.
Our budget is max 250k and we cannot spend up to a potential 50-100k of this with no apparent upper limit on what the council wants, with still no actual guarantee of getting planning.
Now considering a site in one of the two further fields. These are separated from the listed building by tall ditches and even have other houses in them which were built 30+ years ago when restrictions were obviously not so stringent.
Offhand, does anyone think these fields might also be included in the curtilage ? A new house here would not be visible from the listed one due to distance, intervening hedges/ditches/trees etc, plus those other houses.  I'm thinking it could be ok with just a regular planning application, but with our experiences with the CC so far we're afraid it might be more of the same and we'd be just wasting more time and money. Help much appreciated!

Reputable Rog

MackDeToaster wrote: »

Hi, wondering if anyone might have any info re. the extent of curtilage? Am part-time farming land I own, laid out in multiple fields, amongst which is a listed house in ruins. This is basically at the centre of four of the fields, ie they all come up to a side of it.
Trying to build a home here with the wife, we don't have a house, both moved from opposite sides of the country to get hitched and live together, and have been living apart, with our parents a good driveaway from our land as can't afford to rent while trying to save to build. We basically need a home on our land.
Defeated so far with preferred site as this was in one of the four fields near listed ruin and the CC are adding conditions and requirements for the listed building which we cannot meet either timewise or financially, and so far we're already over fourteen months at this with nothing to show for it.
Our budget is max 250k and we cannot spend up to a potential 50-100k of this with no apparent upper limit on what the council wants, with still no actual guarantee of getting planning.
Now considering a site in one of the two further fields. These are separated from the listed building by tall ditches and even have other houses in them which were built 30+ years ago when restrictions were obviously not so stringent.
Offhand, does anyone think these fields might also be included in the curtilage ? A new house here would not be visible from the listed one due to distance, intervening hedges/ditches/trees etc, plus those other houses.  I'm thinking it could be ok with just a regular planning application, but with our experiences with the CC so far we're afraid it might be more of the same and we'd be just wasting more time and money. Help much appreciated!

It depends on the significance of the listed structure but sometimes an exclusion zone of up 200m may be recommended.
Best advice is to either do a pre Planning or if you want a definitive answer go for outline planning permission which if successful will establish the principle of development on your desired site, have a word with your local elected member also.

deandean

Hi, I have a query about an objection I am writing up to send into Dublin city council about a proposed development next door to me. My house would end up overlooked (which it is not at the moment) and I would lose most of my view. My house would be significantly devalued as a result.
So my question is, is devaluation of my property a valid ground for making an objection to a planning application? I have looked up the guidelines and see no reference to it. Many thanks for any advice.