Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

Ba$tard

Hi All,

This question has probably been asked before (didnt find it in a search but..)

We currently in live in an area(our own house) close to my wife's parents house. A site which is A3 Zoned has come on the market and we would love to purchase it. It is about (as the crow flies) 400 meters East from my wife's family home. The problem is that ;

1) The A3 zone for this site is East of the site so would not include our current area where we live or my wife's family home.

2) A3 zoning stipulation is people in need of housing, or need to live in the area for extenuation circumstances.

The site has been on sale for a long time and obviously no takers from the A3 zone for the land. What would be the best way to approach the planning department to increase the chances of being able to purchase this land/possibly rezone/re-classify the land?

Does anyone have the link to the government A3 zoning law/guidelines? couldnt find it.


Thanks in advance....

muffler

A lot of threads are getting dragged off topic (most times unintentionally) so we want to bring some order to the forum. If you have a query or gripe about planning matters post it here. If you have for example 2 queries - one on planning and one on construction/costs then split the queries and post them in the relevant threads.


MOD WARNING:

As there are a myriad of different queries in here... if you are replying to one, please quote the post you are replying or referring to.

sydthebeat

shesham

Does building at least 3 meters from boundary line apply to garages also? And if so, what happens if it's less than the 3 m (it's 3 meters in the west)?

How difficult would it be do you think to get changes on garage layout and actual location on site ok'd with council after planning approved? Bit of a slip made..
What happens if retention efforts are unsuccessful?

Thanks..

smashey

shesham wrote:

Does building at least 3 meters from boundary line apply to garages also? And if so, what happens if it's less than the 3 m (it's 3 meters in the west)?

How difficult would it be do you think to get changes on garage layout and actual location on site ok'd with council after planning approved? Bit of a slip made..
What happens if retention efforts are unsuccessful?

Thanks..

Have you applied for a minor amendment?

shesham

Can you apply for an amendment after garage is already up? We turned the garage around entirely on site. (basically it's a different garage from plans, we have no intention of using it for any other reason but as a garage)

Our site layout plan did not indicate distance of garage from boundary (thanks to guy who drew up plan - lame excuse at this stage ey!). Worst case scenario is? This is a once off home out the country and not for resale. What about the neighbours - looks like we may have some in the future, could they make an issue? ...Thank you.

smashey

In that case, you will have to apply for retention. If unsuccessful, they can make you knock it down.

muffler

shesham wrote:

What happens if retention efforts are unsuccessful?

You demolish it and just think of the expense involved in shifting all the rubble - it will cost you a small fortune.

Seriously I think that it should probably be Ok based on what your comments. Try for a minor amendment first of all and if that fails you can always apply for retention.

Just out of curiosity what size is the garage (including height) and how far from the boundary is it? Whats on the other side of the boundary at the moment?

The_Bullman

I'm about to apply for planning and will be doing so using local needs.

Would it affect my application if I were to apply with my girlfriends name also on the application, where she does not apply for local needs?

muffler

The_Bullman wrote:

I'm about to apply for planning and will be doing so using local needs.

Would it affect my application if I were to apply with my girlfriends name also on the application, where she does not apply for local needs?

If it was here in Donegal there wouldn't be a problem so long as one of the joint applicants can demonstrate needs for housing in the particular area.

It may vary from county to county so you should check with your architect/agent who should know. A quick phone call to your local planning office would also enlighten you.

Fredser

Howdy,

Anybody any experience of a successful planning application for an extension?

My specific question relates to the drawings required. I know that floor plans and elevations are obviously mandatory. But what about SECTIONS and specifications?

From browsing planning applications online some applicants have included sections and specifications whilst some have not.

Anybody any experience of this ?

Thanks in advance

F

tdiman

Hi all,

Hoping to build our home, starting later this year. Ideally would lke to be in it next year at some point.

1. Have a site, which is elevated from the road. We want to build a 2 storey house. How do we avoid / get around planning restrictions (which have become very limiting).
2. We have the layout of the house we want, what are the next steps? We wnt to avoid paying out a small fortune to an architect if there is little hope of getting the planning pemission.

All comments/ suggestions / answers are welcome.

TDI

muffler

Fredser wrote:

Howdy,

Anybody any experience of a successful planning application for an extension?

My specific question relates to the drawings required. I know that floor plans and elevations are obviously mandatory. But what about SECTIONS and specifications?

From browsing planning applications online some applicants have included sections and specifications whilst some have not.

Anybody any experience of this ?

Thanks in advance

F

Sections and spec should be included but not all planning authorities look for this. The spec. can be just the info on the plans - external finishes etc.

Ring your local planning dept. and ask them. There's usually a technician employed who checks and validates the applications when they are submitted so you could ask to speak to him/her.

muffler

tdiman wrote:

Hi all,

Hoping to build our home, starting later this year. Ideally would lke to be in it next year at some point.

1. Have a site, which is elevated from the road. We want to build a 2 storey house. How do we avoid / get around planning restrictions (which have become very limiting).
2. We have the layout of the house we want, what are the next steps? We wnt to avoid paying out a small fortune to an architect if there is little hope of getting the planning pemission.

All comments/ suggestions / answers are welcome.

TDI

Request a pre planning meeting with the local planner and discuss this. You will need a map of the site, a couple of elevations and a couple of levels

jayok

I'm not sure if this is the correct forum but I was looking for see if anyone could advise me in the best way to get planning permission for velux windows.

I've spoken to Dublin City Council and they have confirmed that I need planning permission for a velux window in the front of the house but not at the back. All the neighbours have these windows so I don't really see an objection.

However, looking at the planning application forms they seem horrendous for something so simply. I understand them if I wish to extend the house or build from scratch but for the installation of a window? They seem to suggest I need to get drawings, certification, etc. Is this a bit of overkill am I missing something?

Thanks.

muffler

jayok wrote:

I'm not sure if this is the correct forum but I was looking for see if anyone could advise me in the best way to get planning permission for velux windows.

I've spoken to Dublin City Council and they have confirmed that I need planning permission for a velux window in the front of the house but not at the back. All the neighbours have these windows so I don't really see an objection.

However, looking at the planning application forms they seem horrendous for something so simply. I understand them if I wish to extend the house or build from scratch but for the installation of a window? They seem to suggest I need to get drawings, certification, etc. Is this a bit of overkill am I missing something?

Thanks.

You will need plans, maps etc together with the usual newspaper and site notices. I know its a pain in the arse but you will have to go through the procedure. Its fairly basic stuff so get someone thats handy with a pen or pencil or PC

Im moving this to the sticky on planning

shesham

Muffler:

In response to your questions, the garage we got planning permission for was a 30 x 38ft and 17'8" from finished floor, and the garage we built is 26 x 34ft and 17'3" high, though we have two windows and a door on boundary side. Front corner of garage is 3 metres from boundary and the back corner is about 2.5metres. There is no house on the site next to us and a guy has applied for planning on the site the other side of that site...there could be plans for a house sometime in the future though. We will be planting deciduous trees straight away. Perhaps they would not make too much of an issue, maybe have us put in obscure glass...what do you think? Thanks.

muffler

shesham wrote:

Muffler:

In response to your questions, the garage we got planning permission for was a 30 x 38ft and 17'8" from finished floor, and the garage we built is 26 x 34ft and 17'3" high, though we have two windows and a door on boundary side. Front corner of garage is 3 metres from boundary and the back corner is about 2.5metres. There is no house on the site next to us and a guy has applied for planning on the site the other side of that site...there could be plans for a house sometime in the future though. We will be planting deciduous trees straight away. Perhaps they would not make too much of an issue, maybe have us put in obscure glass...what do you think? Thanks.

I would run with the minor amendment angle. Give them a copy of the revised plans showing the windows and the reduced overall sizes. Give them a site layout plan specifying the distances from the boundary and show the proposed tree planting. You could do all this yourself which will save you a few bob.

Submit a covering letter outlining these points and word it in such a way that the works are not necessarily underway or completed. Personally I wouldnt see a problem with it but its down to the individual planner. You could give all the documents to your local councillor and ask them to look after it - it helps to go this route some times.

cue

Looking for clarity on a few things here. We are going to apply for planning permission and have our local needs form ready to go with supporting documentation. Our architect says we do not actually need to submit this until the planners ask for it. Others tell us that if we do not submit the local needs straight away then it will annoy the planners. Also, the architect tells us that the planners will not like our plan to have windows in the gable walls facing our neighbours (all family), but we need to get light into the rooms and the neighbours do not mind. They also have windows in their gable walls. What you think?

smashey

Submit the local needs documentation with the application. This will stop the planners from seeking FI (further information) during the application process.

Regarding the windows in the gable, why not submit the application with them included? If the planners don't like them, they can put it as one of the conditions of planning that the windows be omitted. Bear in mind that privacy issues will come into the equation.

muffler

smashey wrote:

Submit the local needs documentation with the application. This will stop the planners from seeking FI (further information) during the application process.

Regarding the windows in the gable, why not submit the application with them included? If the planners don't like them, they can put it as one of the conditions of planning that the windows be omitted. Bear in mind that privacy issues will come into the equation.

Agreed

smashey

muffler wrote:

Agreed

Thank you. Tis nice to know we sing from the same hymn sheet every now and then.

muffler

smashey wrote:

Thank you.

No need for that at all - just buy me a few smirnoffs the next time you see me in Lifford

Mac p

I am thinking of buying a site with a 5 year clause " stating that the named site owner must build and reside in the property for 5 years" does anyone know about this clause? also what is the worst that can happen if we agree to buy and build on the site given that the planning will be in the previous owners name? I understand the bank may have a problem but as I am selling in the city, may not need to borrow or possibly under 50k.

muffler

Mac p wrote:

I am thinking of buying a site with a 5 year clause " stating that the named site owner must build and reside in the property for 5 years" does anyone know about this clause? also what is the worst that can happen if we agree to buy and build on the site given that the planning will be in the previous owners name? I understand the bank may have a problem but as I am selling in the city, may not need to borrow or possibly under 50k.

The problem you will have is that there is an occupancy clause in the PP which is normally registered as a burden on the deeds of the property. Its a Section 47 agreement and is quite restrictive. Mortgage or no mortgage your solicitor will look for a copy of the planning and when they see the clause they are legally bound to include the details on the registration of the property.

I have known the odd solicitor who *** cough*** forgot to include something or other. If you feel you know your solicitor well enough to discuss the matter on a personal, unofficial capacity then perhaps thats one way of approaching the problem.

Can you show any family connections to the area or perhaps its an area that you or your spouse/partner will be working in? - sometimes that can be an exemption from the Section 47 but you would need to check the housing policy of the County Development Plan for the County you intend moving to.

Best advice at this stage is to have a quick talk with the planner by phone. You dont have to say who you are or what your circumstances are - you can always say you are calling on behalf of a family member or mate. At least you will have the official explanation on it that way.

Other people who can assist are planning consultants and on the odd occasion the local councilor or TD.

mad m

Got refused planning well partly,getting a double extension but with a step back on the first floor,my attic conversion which would of been a dormer was deemed to be over bearing plus my garage out back was also omitted because of over bearing. Not to the fact my neighbour two doors down has a 1000square foot garage/business and if that aint over bearing I dont know what is.Also the front Velux's were omitted...And atleast two people on my road have Velux's to front on my side of road...

Now Im wondering, got in contact with DCC planning and got the name of fella who is dealing with our plans and who partly refused us until re-advised plans are submitted. I'm actually going to be in Civic offices tomorrow and I wonder would it be a good idea to contact fella and talk to him about it or just go through my Architect? My Architect wasn't that forth coming with information and help to day I might add...

Reason was:To compy with Dublin city development plan 2005-2011 zoning objective and development standards subsection 15.9.14 to reduce over bearing impact&protect residental amenities and pattern of development in the area....and so on...

I have to say that every house up and down my road is a different kettle of fish,plus I have no one over looking me out the back which there is a laneway!!!

muffler

mad m wrote:

Now Im wondering, got in contact with DCC planning and got the name of fella who is dealing with our plans and who partly refused us until re-advised plans are submitted. I'm actually going to be in Civic offices tomorrow and I wonder would it be a good idea to contact fella and talk to him about it

By all means talk to him. Doubtful if he will change his mind but it has been known to happen. Tell him that you were running with established development patterns in the locality i.e. velux roof lights that other people have.

I wouldnt mention anything about the neighbour having the large extension with the business as he will assume that you are reporting the matter or at best just throwing it up in his face which will put you offside with him.

A bit of pleading and groveling works at times - tell him the other half is set on this particular design and will want to sell up and move if its not granted or at least an agreed revised design granted. Spin him the yarn of your life - nothing to loose

secman

Mac P,

I presume the Section 47 applies to the ultimate owner , the person who builds the house, ie you when you buy it and build.

I bought a site with OPP and one of the conditions was a Section 47 for 5 yrs. When I got FPP and bought the site the Section 47 then applied to me ,the owner. This is a common situation.


Secman

Mac p

There is an occupancy clause which is applied to the current owner of the site who has the outline pp, the only escape seems to be if owner cannot pay the mortgage and has to sell.
my wife and I are moving back to the area after 20 years away and both have strong ties to the area. the current owner will only allow the full planning to be submitted in his name in case we are refused. good advice says "dont go there" but we both love the site. are we mad to take the chance? am I right in saying that the worst case scenario is that we cannot sell within the 5 years.?

muffler

Every county has its own development plan and the conditions can vary. From what you are saying you should have a reasonable chance. If the situation was here in Donegal what would happen is that the owner (or son) can apply for and get the permission. The site can then be sold to someone who would have been entitled to get the planning permission in the first instance.

So in your case, if you can show "roots" in the area and a need for a house then there should be no reason why the site cant be sold to you with PP on it. The same thing would apply if this happened and you wanted to sell the house in say 3 years from now, you would be entitled to sell to someone who is "eligible".

Ring the local planning officer and explain the case. He/she will tell you what the requirements are. Alternatively engage a local planning consultant.

Mac p

Thanks for you advice, it sounds sensible.

amanda_02

Hi,

anyone got any ideas of requirements when it comes to applying for PP on a site zoned local needs? I have tried the council & they want formal meetings, I would like to get a heads up on what they require before I go to speak with them - thanks.

muffler

amanda_02 wrote:

Hi,

anyone got any ideas of requirements when it comes to applying for PP on a site zoned local needs? I have tried the council & they want formal meetings, I would like to get a heads up on what they require before I go to speak with them - thanks.

What county are you in?

amanda_02

muffler wrote:

What county are you in?

louth - meeting planners this week.

muffler

amanda_02 wrote:

louth - meeting planners this week.

Have a look at their County development Plan and read through their rural housing policies which should give you an idea as to what is required.

I havent read this myself but a lot of planning authorities have a strict "roots and needs" policy - i.e. you have to show roots to the area either by way that you were born and reared there or your parents resided there for 7 years or more. You will then need to show a need for a house at that location - shouldnt be too difficult - working locally, kids at local school etc.

As I say every council will have different policies so read the devp. plan first.

You could also consider engaging an architect/technician/consultant to discuss this prior to the pre planning meeting

amanda_02

hi,

thats great.. thanks for the advice, had meeting earlier & all went well... criteria met. Onto the fun now of meeting the actual planning requirements now, cheers!

muffler

amanda_02 wrote:

hi,

thats great.. thanks for the advice, had meeting earlier & all went well... criteria met. Onto the fun now of meeting the actual planning requirements now, cheers!

Just send me a bottle of Smirnoff and make sure its well padded in case of breakages

Good luck with it all

st3vo

Hey guys,

Any help would be apreciated.

I am building a studio out my back garden. It will be fully sound proofed when finished.

It is 30' x 15'

My back garden is only overlooked by one other garden and he already has a stone shed built. My studio will start exactly where his starts so as not to overlook his garden. (very considerate i think) I will not be using any boundary walls for my walls.

As far as i know i am exempt from planning permission.

Can anyone re-assure me?

Thanks

smashey

41.8 sq metres. You'll need planning for that.

muffler

st3vo wrote:

Hey guys,

Any help would be apreciated.

I am building a studio out my back garden. It will be fully sound proofed when finished.

It is 30' x 15'

My back garden is only overlooked by one other garden and he already has a stone shed built. My studio will start exactly where his starts so as not to overlook his garden. (very considerate i think) I will not be using any boundary walls for my walls.

As far as i know i am exempt from planning permission.

Can anyone re-assure me?

Thanks

I dont really know what the position is in relation to a studio but I would imagine it would be treated the same as a domestic store/shed/garage. Your proposed sizes would equate to approx. 9.00 x 4.50 metres which is 40.50 sq. metres. The max. exempted size is 25 sq. metres

smashey

muffler wrote:

I dont really know what the position is in relation to a studio but I would imagine it would be treated the same as a domestic store/shed/garage. Your proposed sizes would equate to approx. 9.00 x 4.50 metres which is 40.50 sq. metres. The max. exempted size is 25 sq. metres

Too slow.

st3vo

Cr@p so i need planning......

How do i go about that and how long does it take to clear?

smashey

Shold be fairly straight forward. Get an Architect or a Technician and they will do the plans and lodge your planning application for you. You should know in 6 - 8 weeks from then. Your final permission could take up to 3 months.

st3vo

Ok. Yhanks for all your help guys....

But just gotta ask one more question. What if i just build it anyway?

My neighbor is the one who is helping me build it so he aint gonna complain.

6-8 weeks / 3 months is a very long time to wait!

smashey

st3vo, you asked for advice and got it. We will not be advocating building without permission here.

muffler

st3vo wrote:

Cr@p so i need planning......

How do i go about that and how long does it take to clear?

For a job like that you could get a local draughtsman or technician to do the plans, maps etc and submit the planning application. it will take about 3 months to get planning if not longer

brettman

Hi everyone,
I'm in a situation where (being new to Ireland) I listened to some builders tell me that I didn't need planning permission to do a small bay window with a canopy. We built it, and now find out that in fact we did need planning permission because we changed the facade of the house.

After much searching I've found some vague references to this kind of situation on the web, but nothing too concrete. I understand I can apply for retroactive permission, but that its expensive. I also gather that if permission is refused, they will force me to remove the extension. Needless to say, I'd like to avoid either situation.

Lots of people say that chances are good we won't have any problems until we try to sell the house. We aren't planning to sell anytime soon, but nevertheless it would help me to know what to expect.

So my questions are:

1) is it better to apply for retroactive permission or just quietly ignore the problem? (I understand this forum doesn't advocate building w/o permission, but I just want to understand how deep the sh** I'm in really runs)
2) If I don't get the permisson, what problems will arise when we try to sell the house? Some say there are paperwork issues... some say money issues... I'm not really sure what to think.
3) what kinds of other problems can I expect?


Thanks for any advice or input!

muffler

My advice would be to make an application for retention permission. I dont think you should have much problem with it. The planning fee for retention of a bay window will be the min. fee of €102. The plans will probably cost you a bit more than that so shop around for a few prices.

The bay window in its present unauthorised form will become an issue if you ever wish to sell or even re-mortgage in the future or indeed even sign over ownership to a family member.

You are right that we frown upon any mention of breaking planning laws on this forum but one small point you should know is that if the local Council dont contact you about the window within a 5 year period (I am open to correction on the time frame here) then there is a statutory bar on the Council which prevents them from taking legal action on the matter. The only problem with all of this is while the Council may not be able to prosecute you or make you take it down you still dont have planning permission for it and it is still an issue if you go to sell in a number of years from now.

Apply for retention.

dfcelt

Looking for all the help I can get people as I haven't a clue where to begin.

Basically my wifes father is a farmer, he is going to give us & his other daughter adjoining sites in one of his fields.
He (and I) don't know what actions/procedures are needed to hand over these plots. I would imagine solicitors are involved but would appreciate some advice before I contact them.

Then, once the plot is officially ours I'm thinking of going down Amanda's route, ie a formal meeting with the authorities so we will have a better knowledge of what we need to adhere to when lodging our application.

Any help would be appreciated as I would like to start this process asap. Our baby is 16 months and I'd like to be in a position to enrol her in country school once shes at that age.


Will be on here constantly picking ur brains

Hope all is going well with your application Amanda

smashey

You can make a planning application without owning the land. A letter of consent from the land owner will have to be submitted with the application. Your architect will be able to mark out the site and give you what you need for the soilcitor for land transfer.

muffler

dfcelt wrote:

Basically my wifes father is a farmer, he is going to give us & his other daughter adjoining sites in one of his fields.
He (and I) don't know what actions/procedures are needed to hand over these plots. I would imagine solicitors are involved but would appreciate some advice before I contact them.

Then, once the plot is officially ours I'm thinking of going down Amanda's route, ie a formal meeting with the authorities

Get your planning permission (hopefully) first and then transfer the site into your names. As smashey said all you will need from your wifes father is a letter giving his consent for you to make a planning application for a site on his land.

If you transfer the site now and got refused planning then you are out quite a bit of money to own a piece of land that you cant use.

muffler

muffler wrote:

Get your planning permission (hopefully) first and then transfer the site into your names. As smashey said all you will need from your wifes father is a letter giving his consent for you to make a planning application for a site on his land.

If you transfer the site now and got refused planning then you are out quite a bit of money to own a piece of land that you cant use.

Yes, That's the way we did it, the cost of outline permission is much cheaper than the cost of land transfer.

Be wary of ribbon development as well, i.e. more than five houses in a 250m length of road, most coco's will refuse anything that creates a ribbon of houses.