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Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    Schooby wrote: »
    Going back a bit in the thread but septic tanks are preferable to everyone council, applicant where the site conditions are suitable the only people who prefer on site waste water treatment systems where a septic tank can work are those who sell them and those who specify them due to a lack of understanding of the processes involved!
    Eh.... no.

    Nothing to do with the sellers/manufacturers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭Schooby


    Eh ..... yes

    Time and time and time again the agent does a half arsed assesment hands it over to the suppliers of the system and regardless of site conditions recommend a system that they manufacture/sell

    for reasons not to use a system other than a septic tank where it is suitable see the maintenance section of the 2007 consultation draft of the waste water treatment systems for single houses from the EPA, makes a very clear case.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    Schooby wrote: »
    Time and time and time again the agent does a half arsed assesment
    Care to back that comment up?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭Schooby


    the back up the comment on the half arsed assesment, is experience, specifying a treatment system to cover all eventualities is easier than doing a proper assessment specifying the most appropriate system for a client.

    Stirring a bit, but seriously I do see expensive, complicated inappropriate systems specified for sites far more suitable for a good old tried and tested gravity operated septic tank on an almost daily basis.

    what back up you looking for?

    Septic tanks on sites that are suitable are far superior to 99% of the alternative installed under each of the following headings

    price of materials
    price of installation
    ease of installation
    frequency of maintainance
    cost of maintainance
    ease of maintainance
    consequences of failure are way less severe on environment, public health and pocket.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,873 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Schooby wrote: »
    Eh ..... yes

    Time and time and time again the agent does a half arsed assesment hands it over to the suppliers of the system and regardless of site conditions recommend a system that they manufacture/sell

    for reasons not to use a system other than a septic tank where it is suitable see the maintenance section of the 2007 consultation draft of the waste water treatment systems for single houses from the EPA, makes a very clear case.
    You are talking a load of shite (pun intended)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭Schooby


    as you suggest muffler a favourite past time of mine the ****e talk.

    it is however a serious issue, the small area statistics with the results of the census question form are now up on the CSO site. one of the questions was are you on mains drainage, septic tank or other system. turns out very close to half the population of the country are on on-site systems of one sort or another with over 17,000 treament systems.

    A recent study inpecting and sampling both Tanks and treatment systems found that of the sample examined 100% were failing in some way, thats one hell of a lotta ****e heading for the ground water that we will be relying on in comming years.

    ****e talk over, off to bed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,873 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    A large number of Planning Authorities insist that the site assessment is carries out by a "suitably qualified and independent person". Any of the reports that I have seen will recommend either a septic tank or a package plant type system. In the latter case the type of system is recommended but never the brand name so your comments are way wide of the mark.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭Schooby


    I have recently completed a review of how the different local authorities handle this very subject, and as you rightly say there are a number which have a fairly tight system to regulate who carries out the test, the type of form they use and how the recommendation is made with regard to the type/brand of system, these local authorities are in the minority.

    I have seen hundreds of assessment from a large range of local authorities, not really sure if you know enough to be claiming I'm off the mark!


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    Schooby wrote: »
    I have seen hundreds of assessment from a large range of local authorities, not really sure if you know enough to be claiming I'm off the mark!
    /Pulls up chair, gets popcorn and waits for the show. :eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,873 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Schooby wrote: »
    not really sure if you know enough to be claiming I'm off the mark!
    I'll pretend I didnt see that.

    Now if you want to claim that people (which includes the L.A.'s) are providing "half arsed assessments" then perhaps you would share examples with us.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭davidoco


    muffler wrote: »
    A large number of Planning Authorities insist that the site assessment is carries out by a "suitably qualified and independent person". Any of the reports that I have seen will recommend either a septic tank or a package plant type system. In the latter case the type of system is recommended but never the brand name so your comments are way wide of the mark.

    In 2005 I was interested in a peat based system manufactured by a particular Irish company. I spoke to the rep. Asked the rep did he know any site assessors, he put me in touch with an "independent" bloke who did the site assessment. On the report the assessor specifically drew out (on the final page) the proposed layout of the peat based system.

    I was going to send it back to the assessor and ask him to amend it but was happy with the peat product. The site was not wet/not a high water mark and any decent treatment system would have been acceptable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    My percolation test results included a recommended system from one supplier, however I showed the results to different people and they don't believe the complex system recommended is required, however just because such a system is recommended you don't have to go with that manufactor.

    Although I also might add I do't think people should be using normal septic tanks for ease of cost as one user stated, I have a well on site and I will be putting in the best suitable system for my health and my neighbours health.


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,167 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Engineers in Laois County Council prefer to see a correctly working gravity fed septic tank every time. If a percolation test passes, this is the system they want specified. Laois county council do an SR 6 test themselves.

    Offaly County Council require an Effluent Treatment System with every single off-line rural dwelling, regardless of the percolation test result. They do a mish-mash of bothe the SR 6 and the EPA (ie they do T and P tests)

    Kilkenny County Council require independent agents to carry out full EPA tests. The systems specified depend on these results.

    Kildare used to require treatment systems wth all rural applications, but have changed policy lately to accept septic tanks where applicable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭Schooby


    the difficulty with giveing case specific examples would be that although all planning applications are in the public domain, I would not be happy naming applicants or agents without them having a right to defend themselves


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,532 ✭✭✭savemejebus


    Hi all,

    Sorry to bother ye, but i was wondering if i could get your opinion on something.

    Behind my house is a pub, car park and old petrol station. A consortium (including the pub owner) have now decided to develop the old petrol station and car park, replacing them with a huge 3 story office and retail unit with underground car parking.

    I'm quite concerned with the idea of a 3 story building just beyond my back fence (most of my living room light comes through a window which will face out onto this new building) and also with the idea of excavations for an underground carpark adjoining my back yard, not to mention all the construction noise and hassle.

    Do you think it's worth my while objecting and do you think what i've mentioned are good grounds?


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    Hi all,

    Sorry to bother ye, but i was wondering if i could get your opinion on something.

    Behind my house is a pub, car park and old petrol station. A consortium (including the pub owner) have now decided to develop the old petrol station and car park, replacing them with a huge 3 story office and retail unit with underground car parking.

    I'm quite concerned with the idea of a 3 story building just beyond my back fence (most of my living room light comes through a window which will face out onto this new building) and also with the idea of excavations for an underground carpark adjoining my back yard, not to mention all the construction noise and hassle.

    Do you think it's worth my while objecting and do you think what i've mentioned are good grounds?
    Is the area zoned for anything?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,532 ✭✭✭savemejebus


    I don't really know. There was a petrol station and retail store there up to around 5 years ago. The front of the pub is a protected structure but other than that i don't know. I'd probably have to ring the council to find out right?


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    I don't really know. There was a petrol station and retail store there up to around 5 years ago. The front of the pub is a protected structure but other than that i don't know. I'd probably have to ring the council to find out right?
    It should be in the local development plan.

    Also, have they made an application yet?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,532 ✭✭✭savemejebus


    I'll have to check that.

    Yeah the application is in, i just saw the site sign this evening (put up at weekend i guess)


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    You have five weeks from the date of receipt of the application by the council to make an objection.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,532 ✭✭✭savemejebus


    I know, i've started typing out the letter, and am going to talk to my neighbours too but i just wanted to post on here to see if ye had any thoughts on whether my points would be ok.


  • Registered Users Posts: 898 ✭✭✭bauderline


    I would say you and your neighbours have good grounds for objecting to this, you will need to get your neighbours on board though and have them object as well as it appears there is some sort of precedence for commercial development at the site.

    You have valid concerns regarding the excavation of the underground car park and I would guess there may be privacy issues with a three storey building close to your back gardens. You will need to get a copy of there plans and see the location of the windows etc.

    Also how much traffic will the development bring to the area, is it busy with traffic already ?

    Check the development plan for the area, get a copy of the plans, organise a meeting with interested parties in the area.

    b.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ganmull


    We just had an objection on our planning application from the Dept. of Enviromnent saying that there was a "national monument" on the site and that a full topographical survey and excavation by an archaeologist were required to investigate what "if anything" was there. :confused: they call it a suspect enclosure site??

    Is there anybody out there that has experienced something similiar... I was just wondering about the cost involved in such an exercise... Also I am purchasing the site subject to planning... do you think the landowner should be liable to pay for such excavation or should that be paid by me ??
    Thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,873 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    ganmull wrote: »
    We just had an objection on our planning application from the Dept. of Enviromnent saying that there was a "national monument" on the site and that a full topographical survey and excavation by an archaeologist were required to investigate what "if anything" was there. :confused: they call it a suspect enclosure site??

    Is there anybody out there that has experienced something similiar... I was just wondering about the cost involved in such an exercise... Also I am purchasing the site subject to planning... do you think the landowner should be liable to pay for such excavation or should that be paid by me ??
    Thanks.
    I have encountered this a few times. You will have to get an archaeological assessment carried out and the result of that (among other matters) will determine if you will be successful or not with the application.

    Thankfully the few I have been involved with showed up no significant items of archaeological interest. Its hard to quantify the cost as it can be determined by the area you are in, the type of enclosure, the results of the assessment and maybe even future assessment/monitoring at excavation/construction stage. The biggest problem you face is the risk of the excavation locating a few bones or the likes. Worse case scenario is that you could be refused permission.

    The cheapest I have seen cost about €1000 and the others ranged from that up to €3000. One client was told (by a guy in Duchas) that he could spend up to 50 grand as the proposed house was going directly over an underground burial chamber. Needless to say he abandoned the project. Another project was delayed when a developer excavated something or other during the construction of a shopping centre. It cost him about 30 grand to get it all sorted and at the end of the day it turned out to be a large boulder that was of no importance.

    You should talk to the landowner regarding the costs and explain to him that if he wishes to sell a site whether it be to you or someone else then the assessment will have to be carried out and the least he could do is share the cost.

    They would have given you a reference number for the monument. You can talk to the councils heritage officer who may give you some info or you can research it a bit yourself at the local library. Ring around a couple of archaeologists and quote the monument number and get an estimate of the costs in advance.

    Good luck with it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 350 ✭✭fitzie79


    as part of the further information on my planning application i have been requested to do the following

    "The applicant is requested to submit the land registry certificates and folio maps for the entire family land holding from which this site has been taken. Any sites disposed off from the holding should be indicated.( 2 copies)"

    Where can i get this information from? I have asked my finacee's father and he only has land registry maps. None of these outline the actual family land holding or previous sites disposed. He has a folio number alright but I am not sure what to do with this? I have looked at landregistry.ie but I can't see anywhere that I can get the maps I am interested in. Someone suggested that we have to go through a solicitor to get the maps? Does anyone know the correct procedure?


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    fitzie79 wrote: »
    as part of the further information on my planning application i have been requested to do the following

    "The applicant is requested to submit the land registry certificates and folio maps for the entire family land holding from which this site has been taken. Any sites disposed off from the holding should be indicated.( 2 copies)"

    Where can i get this information from? I have asked my finacee's father and he only has land registry maps. None of these outline the actual family land holding or previous sites disposed. He has a folio number alright but I am not sure what to do with this? I have looked at landregistry.ie but I can't see anywhere that I can get the maps I am interested in. Someone suggested that we have to go through a solicitor to get the maps? Does anyone know the correct procedure?
    You should be able to get this if you go to the Land Registry Office and give them the folio number.


  • Registered Users Posts: 350 ✭✭fitzie79


    smashey wrote: »
    You should be able to get this if you go to the Land Registry Office and give them the folio number.

    sorry now if this is a stupid question. When you say go to the land registry office do you mean that i physcially have to go there or can it be done online? I am in Cork so getting to Dublin would be a lot of hassle


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    fitzie79 wrote: »
    sorry now if this is a stupid question. When you say go to the land registry office do you mean that i physcially have to go there or can it be done online? I am in Cork so getting to Dublin would be a lot of hassle
    You have to go. As far as I know, only Solicitors can use the online system. There will be a land regsitry office in Cork, they are usually found in Courthouses.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,873 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    smashey wrote: »
    You have to go. As far as I know, only Solicitors can use the online system. There will be a land regsitry office in Cork, they are usually found in Courthouses.
    As smashey said there will be a Land Registry office in Cork which is usually located at the circuit court office. If by any chance there's not you can have your solicitor get them for you or if you have relatives/friends in Dublin they could pop round to Chancery Street. You can still order them by post yourself once you have the folio number but you would need to ring in advance to find out the cost.

    The land registry online system can be used by anyone but in order to carry out searches or print copies of the maps you have to open an account (min. deposit of €120 afaik) so it wouldnt pay you to go down that route as the maps cost about €25 each approx.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 43 Nameless1


    Hi all,
    Just a query regarding retention permission:
    A friend of mine converted the attic of his house into 2 bedrooms, 1 WC and a small store in 2005. 3 velux windows and a dormer window were added to the rear of the house but the neighbours house was behind his so he got a written letter from the neighbour stating that he (neighbour) had no objections to the conversion. There was also 1 small velux window added to the front of the house. The house is located in the countryside.

    Planning permission was not sought at the time but his neighbour is now moving and I was wondering if the new neighbour can object to these windows?

    Also if he (friend) was to sell the house would there be a problem that planning permission was not sought for the conversion?

    Would it be better to go for retention now before problems start to arise? Should have he got permission in the first place? Thanks


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