Docklands Station of no use for most commuters

dodgyme

Enigma365 wrote:

Also that train left at 6.35 which is towards the end of peak travel. If all the trains to and from docklands had 50 people on them, then you would have a point...... I doubt that to be the case though.

You doubt that ...mm..really ...well I have heard it from a fair few poeple now!..but you doubt it so..great. So great we pay for 50 people at 6:30 and you think that is ok with the massive latency in the transport system???

Enigma365

Loads of commuter trains and darts travel with fewer than 50 passengers, depending on the time of day. The 21:30 Dart to Howth on a Monday night may not be heavily travelled, but lets not cancel the entire Dart system just yet.

I think you would need more than the data from one random service, to tell if a route is popular or not. Anyone got daily ridership figures?

dodgyme

Enigma365 wrote:

Loads of commuter trains and darts travel with fewer than 50 passengers, depending on the time of day. The 21:30 Dart to Howth on a Monday night may not be heavily travelled,.?

We are not talking about 21:30 at night but 18:30 and that is a different story, lets stick to the facts. !! please!!

Enigma365 wrote:

but lets not cancel the entire Dart system just yet.?

Points like that win you no fans!! I am talking about people and the journeys they really have to make, like the other threads on people asking to get from clonsilla to deansgrange at 9am and having no options. If all you want to do is throw away comments, please make them to someone who cares about such silliness.

Basically at a minimum the Docklands station should have a bus to the southside Luas passing Pearse on the way therefore adding to integrated journeys of people who need them.

markpb

dodgyme wrote:

Basically at a minimum the Docklands station should have a bus to the southside Luas passing Pearse on the way therefore adding to integrated journeys of people who need them.

I'm not sure about linking Pearse with Stephens Green since walking would probably be faster anyway but yes, there should definitely be a link between Docklands, Connolly and Stephens Green.

strassenwolf

Enigma365 wrote:

Docklands station was the ONLY option for the maynooth line in the short term.

Though I believe the docklands option will turn out well, I seem to remember a suggestion that Broadstone be used for the Maynooth line in the short term - better bus connections and so forth. Was it here that I saw it?

Metrobest

dodgyme wrote:

Think you must have vision problems - what about the bit where he says
"Got four seats all to myself and id say there was only about 50 people on the train!"
Great we are paying for empty trains which is my point! With all the needs for public transport we are paying for extra trains which 50 people use. You could put that number on a bus and you think that proves your point.

"you can't put a 'time' value on comfort" - think of the cost of that service per passenger? , no passenger needs four seats all to themselves and has a big happy grin that this is the case. Its not right and a waste of money.

Also he mentions "extra walk time is worth it", ya a lovely evening it was last night, no surprise there, say if the wind was high and cold and his umbrella was getting trashed while trying to avoid cars spashing him on the pavement as he crossed a wind swept liffey bridge. Oh and let say he was coming from mmm say sandyford or donnybrook and see how much the extra walk would be appreciated after a 10/15 min wait for a bus and a further walk to docklands and then a 50/50 chance of a 39 before 15min wait after getting off the train, followed by around 10-15 mins walk to get in the door.

You've hit the nail on the head.

We've established that these trains are not proving popular with commuters due to the poor location they are ending up in... "Docklands".

Just fifty passengers on a peak hour train is quite shocking really, that's just practically half the capacity of a standard double decker bus. After splurging tens of millions of euro on this station, with millions more to be spent on subsidising it, it has to be considered a white elephant unless demand picks up substantially.

It may suit some excercise junkies to walk 30 odd minutes to their destination each morning, but most of us want a train that takes us directly to where we are going.

And despite moderator Victor's pro-Docklands PR, the fact remains the environs of Docklands station is not pleasant to walk to. There are a lot of junkies and scumbags in that area, although it is changing for the better. This is just a fact and making insidious comparisons with the southside's junkie population won't change it.

daymobrew

Metrobest wrote:

We've established that these trains are not proving popular with commuters due to the poor location they are ending up in... "Docklands".

Oh, no, more dataless claims :rolleyes:
I estimate that there were approximately 200 people on the 8:23 service from Coolmine to Docklands this morning. There were a few people standing when we arrived at Docklands at 8:41. IMO that time constitutes a peak hour train.
Return journey ridership might be different because people might not finish work at the same time each day, though a 9am start seems to be quite static and common.

Metrobest wrote:

It may suit some exercise junkies to walk 30 odd minutes to their destination each morning, but most of us want a train that takes us directly to where we are going.

Can you define, in minutes walk you are willing to walk?

Metrobest wrote:

And despite moderator Victor's pro-Docklands PR, the fact remains the environs of Docklands station is not pleasant to walk to. There are a lot of junkies and scumbags in that area, although it is changing for the better. This is just a fact and making insidious comparisons with the southside's junkie population won't change it.

Have you been down to the station? I have been there a few times. I don't feel at all uncomfortable and I'm quite the wimp.

Enigma365

We are not talking about 21:30 at night but 18:30 and that is a different story, lets stick to the facts. !! please!!

My point was simply that, certain services may not always be busy but that does not mean the route is not busy.

I do not think it is rational to draw a conclusion on a route based on an estimate from one traveller on one train that was towards the end of peak travel, on a route that has just started and may still be attracting new passengers.

_Kaiser_

Metrobest wrote:

It may suit some excercise junkies to walk 30 odd minutes to their destination each morning, but most of us want a train that takes us directly to where we are going.

Exactly.. if they intend to get people out of their cars, telling them they have a 20/30 minute walk at the end (and maybe to get to the station initially given that Coolmine/Castleknock doesn't serve most of Blanchardstown anyway) is not the way to do it - anything more than 5-10 minute walk either side of the journey I'd deem too much in fact.

But hey, I'm sure the usage stats and traffic levels around Blanch since these services started will tell the tale anyway.

pclancy

I really cant believe this discussion....

Track was mostly there and rolling stock was there...apart from the station its a good use of existing facilities to better service people who work in the city centre...

Sure theres only a 50 people load for my train but im very sure the others are way better loaded. Im in a minority in that i work until 6, im sure there are many people on the earlier ones? And i wouldnt consider spencer dock any more of a scummy area then connolly or pearse! Thousands of people walk in and out of the IFSC every day through the sherrif st/spencer dock area, its no worse then many other places around Dublin city.

Look we're stuck with an infrastucture around and in Dublin thats only been invested in for the last 10-15 years...without the EUs funding it would probably be at 1980's levels of service. Its far from perfect, for a lot of people im sure its completly crap and certain areas have obviously benifitted way more be it the LUAS to serve the southside and the DART to service the east coast. Funny how much of the northside has to rely on the older of Dublin busses fleet. In fairness we're 50 years behind the rest of europe when it comes to our transport systems investment but it is getting better and i think docklands will grow in popularity when people realise where it is and the services available. But its better have it with a station and some investment/jobs then having the track sit there freight line to the docks that hardly gets used any more.

BendiBus

Some people will complain about anything. And not even in a constructive way.

Passenger numbers are expected to at least quadruple based on official estimates on opening day.

Zebra3

The service is running a couple of weeks and people are moaning. Give it time, ffs. Given fifteen minutes on a train and a fifteen minute walk or ninety minutes stuck in a car or a bus, I know what I'd gladly take....

I remember going through Clontarf Road the first morning it opened and one person got on the southbound DART.

I think things have picked up since.....

Metrobest

I qualified my statement by saying that it has to be considered a white elephant "unless demand picks up substantially." I'm adopting a sceptical wait and see approach until hard figures are available.

We're forever being told by Irish Rail that there is an insatiable appetite amongst commuters for more services along the Maynooth line. Every time a new train is added, it quickly reaches capacity. This doesn't seem to be happening in the case of Docklands with its peak hour ghost trains. The reason, I contend, is that the trains are going where there is not enough demand.

I think a ten minute walk to your train station is reasonable, but when you arrive into a city centre you really should be looking at max 500 metres to your destination. Nobody is going to give up their car for a 30 minute walk each morning, and I don't it's fair to ask them to.

Nor is fair to charge them twice for the pleasure of dumping them in an out-of-the-way location. Irish Rail should be laying on FREE courtesy buses to take Docklands passengers into the heart of the city centre. It should not be creating a money spinner for its CIE sister, Dublin Bus.

Docklands is there primarily because of a planning permission condition, not because commuters asked for it. The whole set up down there is mired in subterfuge and shady deals with private developers. I don't believe Irish Rail has the interest of its passengers at heart; if it did, the priority would be the Phoenix Park tunnel, a potential jewel in CIE's spartan crown that lies inexplicably idle, because, Irish Rail says, "there would be no demand for that".

dodgyme

The argument that it will take time to get numbers on the route is rubbish. I remember when they put on the extra trains just for clonsilla commuters to town (not docktown or timbuktoo) and they were jammers on the first day. I also remember being at meeting where the D15 commuters asked why they had to end up in the docklands when they didnt want to be there. A straw poll at the meeting found that most people complaining worked in Cherrywood/Sandyford/Donnybrook/Ballsbridge etc. They wanted instead of the docklands that the trains would all continue to Pearse etc where they could walk the half an hour or get the luas/46a/continue to southside darts etc.

There was also the sentiment at these meetings that the D15 commuters were being pushed down to the docks to ensure the DART users got through connolly which was becoming an issue due to signalling. As one person put it "I would like to see a southside dart user being thrown in ringsend and told to make your own way after that". This struck a chord.

I am a big believer in public transport but I think if you do something when you can make it better for a few people you should. This is a white elephant and unlike while daymobrew says we did give facts ' the poster said 50 people at 6:30pm '. Free buses should be laid on to take people from the station to the cc and on to the Luas lines therefore encouraging commuters for the southside from west dublin to use it. This should be the case until there is integrated ticketing. By doing this you will guarantee usage and take the pressure off the trains going in to Connolly. But no because the people running the service havent a clue and the defenders can only come up with arguments like you should walk more etc.

The principals of good public transport is integration, good access to parking etc at stations, regularity, convenience, and simplicity etc but these seem to be the last things that happen in Ireland. In fact they seem to go against all these in the hope that people will not use the system, like oh yes what is happening in the docklands.

daymobrew

dodgyme wrote:

By doing this you will guarantee usage and take the pressure off the trains going in to Connolly. But no because the people running the service havent a clue and the defenders can only come up with arguments like you should walk more etc.

Have you contacted the people running the service and the Government departments responsible? They need to know your dissatisfaction.
I frequently let companies and authorities know when I feel that they are not providing a good service. You should do the same. Offer some suggestions too.

dodgyme

daymobrew wrote:

Have you contacted the people running the service and the Government departments responsible? They need to know your dissatisfaction.
I frequently let companies and authorities know when I feel that they are not providing a good service. You should do the same. Offer some suggestions too.

As I said I was there at the meeting when talking about the service before it was put in place. Was I listen ed to then or was anyone else.,.....nmmmmm ...NO!

However I agree with you at the same time... gotta keep bashing those walls down... ok .....maybe not exactly!

Victor

strassenwolf wrote:

Though I believe the docklands option will turn out well, I seem to remember a suggestion that Broadstone be used for the Maynooth line in the short term - better bus connections and so forth. Was it here that I saw it?

That was my independent suggestion to stop buses terminating around Parnell Square. I would now suggest, that say the 46A start at Docklands.

Victor

Metrobest wrote:

And despite moderator Victor's pro-Docklands PR, the fact remains the environs of Docklands station is not pleasant to walk to. There are a lot of junkies and scumbags in that area, although it is changing for the better. This is just a fact and making insidious comparisons with the southside's junkie population won't change it.

Look all the junkies were ethnicly cleansed out of the area when the Sheriff Street flats were demolished. The only junkies that I imagine that inhabit the area now are teh pin-stripe one.

Anyway. Theres nothing to steal anyway near Docklands, so why would they hang out there.

Metrobest

dodgyme wrote:

Free buses should be laid on to take people from the station to the cc and on to the Luas lines therefore encouraging commuters for the southside from west dublin to use it. This should be the case until there is integrated ticketing. By doing this you will guarantee usage and take the pressure off the trains going in to Connolly. But no because the people running the service havent a clue and the defenders can only come up with arguments like you should walk more etc.

The principals of good public transport is integration, good access to parking etc at stations, regularity, convenience, and simplicity etc but these seem to be the last things that happen in Ireland. In fact they seem to go against all these in the hope that people will not use the system, like oh yes what is happening in the docklands.

Some very good points made here.

I just find it appaling that Irish Rail and Dublin Bus have decided to charge passengers from Docklands into the city centre. Remember, these commuters are not going to Docklands out of choice, it's because they have no other option.

Both of these companies enjoy a monopoly so they'll always suit themselves with their wagepayers (ie. commuting taxpayers) a distant afterthought.

The Docklands-O'Connell Bridge section of the trip should be free, which would drastically speed up boarding times and make the whole experience of being dumped in this out-of-the-way pocket of the city a little more palatable.

As one person put it "I would like to see a southside dart user being thrown in ringsend and told to make your own way after that". This struck a chord.

That strikes a chord with me too - I used to live in Coolmine at the time when the trains all terminated at Connolly for no reason except it suited Irish Rail to do that.

The only junkies that I imagine that inhabit the area now are teh pin-stripe one.

Wow, I can't wait to see how much it's changed on my next visit to Dublin.

Look all the junkies were ethnicly cleansed out of the area when the Sheriff Street flats were demolished.

I'm glad. Those flats were never going to win any architecture prizes.

dodgyme

Metrobest wrote:

The Docklands-O'Connell Bridge section of the trip should be free, which would drastically speed up boarding times and make the whole experience of being dumped in this out-of-the-way pocket of the city a little more palatable.

Completely, There should really be a free service to the cc (drop o'connell st) then on around Dawson st etc on to the Luas, with drop off only. Then the same should happen on the other side with a direct no drop off between Luas and Docklands (for practical reasons, because the Luas in the greeen is also regarded as cc), thus ensuring the link service is only used by those actually linking.

You could use your Luas or Rail ticket as proof to board. Basically the same as the east point bus run ( by east point management not Dub bus.)

Metrobest wrote:

That strikes a chord with me too - I used to live in Coolmine at the time when the trains all terminated at Connolly for no reason except it suited Irish Rail to do that.

Thats it, its like they are in an office and go, ok what would suit commuters, ok now what suits us, ok, now I think we will go with what suits us, yes does that sound good everyone, mmm ....yes ok "carried!". Now lets get a taxi upto nude for a malt.

Metrobest wrote:

Wow, I can't wait to see how much it's changed on my next visit to Dublin.

If you are ever around there at the weekends the only knackers are from around the area despite what some other posters think.

dodgyme

Also I know "Dawson st" is one way but you know what I mean - kildare st then whatever!

And I know nude dont serve malt also.

strassenwolf

Victor wrote:

That was my independent suggestion to stop buses terminating around Parnell Square. I would now suggest, that say the 46A start at Docklands.

Seems like a good idea.

Something like Docklands, Seville Place, Summerhill, Parnell Street, O'Connell Street and onwards, perhaps? That would pretty much cover the connection to O'Connell Street and the other locations which the route currently serves.

Victor

Metrobest wrote:

I just find it appaling that Irish Rail and Dublin Bus have decided to charge passengers from Docklands into the city centre. Remember, these commuters are not going to Docklands out of choice, it's because they have no other option.

Feeder tickets are available. This has been discussed.

strassenwolf wrote:

Seems like a good idea. Something like Docklands, Seville Place, Summerhill, Parnell Street, O'Connell Street and onwards, perhaps? That would pretty much cover the connection to O'Connell Street and the other locations which the route currently serves.

Why bother? Docklands - IFSC - Quays - College Green.

Or do the 44s/48A Docklands - IFSC - Quays - Pearse - St. Stephen's Green.

AlekSmart

A bit of a whisper surrounds the rejuvenation of the 46B Bus Route.
It appears that the 46B may well be a candidate for a Docklands Terminus with it`s outer terminus in the Carrickmines region.
Interestingly the routing may well satisfy the An Lar-Stephens Green-Donnybrook axis requirement.
Expect the present 46B routing to change in the Mount Merrion area with a possibility of the route travelling via Stillorgan Rd and Brewery or Leopardstown Roads....
However nothing is cast in stone as yet and intense studies are currently underway.
As for the 746......well this is where it could get really interesting and adventurous if the Dept of Transport,Dublin City Council and the Dublin Airport Authority can develop a depth of vision for themselves.... :rolleyes:

BendiBus

I think this was designed with dodgyme in mind

Metrobest

Victor wrote:

Feeder tickets are available. This has been discussed.

I haven't seen that discussion and I don't care to scroll around in search of it. You could have been more helpful and highlighted the relevent information for those of us who haven't seen it. Curt responses to my posts should not really be responded to by me but anyway here goes...

I presume this "feeder" tickets cost extra, but my point is that the bus section of the trip from Docklands to city centre should be FREE. This has been discussed, and most contributors seem to agree with me.

unreggie

BendiBus wrote:

I think this was designed with dodgyme in mind

Yep I agree but I think it was designed with 100,000 commuters from West Dublin/East Kildare in mind also.:cool:

Victor

Metrobest wrote:

I presume this "feeder" tickets cost extra, but my point is that the bus section of the trip from Docklands to city centre should be FREE. This has been discussed, and most contributors seem to agree with me.

http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/news_centre/general_news.asp?action=view&news_id=248

Onward connection
Dublin Bus are offering a range of services to and from Docklands Station, The new 151 route and new feeder bus 93 route will be available for Docklands Station commuters.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/news_centre/latest_news.asp?action=view&news_id=645

A combined bus and rail ticket to Broombridge, Ashtown, Castleknock, Coolmine or Clonsilla may be purchased on the bus.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/viewer.asp?route=93

Bus/Rail tickets are valid on this service.

If such services are "free", as opposed to "included", people will just abuse them.

Metrobest

There's nothing in those news pages to suggest that commuters get a special deal when they buy a "feeder" ticket. The simple fact of the matter is that they pay an add on fare - as much as eur 1.20 - for the privilege of being dumped in an out of the way station they never asked for, located in a place many of them never wanted to set foot in.

How you think commuters would "abuse" a free bus is beyond me.

daymobrew

Metrobest wrote:

for the privilege of being dumped in an out of the way station they never asked for, located in a place many of them never wanted to set foot in..

Are people being kidnapped and forced onto Docklands services?