Docklands Station of no use for most commuters

strassenwolf

daymobrew wrote:

He's incorporating some exercise into his daily routine. It's radical and beyond the comprehension of many people but we need leaders. The Irish Heart Foundation would be proud of him.

And it always surprised me, when I worked for a short period of time on Clyde Road, how many of the staff at the IHF drive to their work.

dodgyme

daymobrew wrote:

A friend of mine is obviously a world class spitter. He works off Upper Baggot Street (the part south of the Grand Canal) and gets the Docklands train. It's a 2.25 mile walk (and this is after the guts of a 1 mile walk to the station!). And I was so proud of myself for my 25min/1.75mile walk from Drumcondra to East Point.

He's incorporating some exercise into his daily routine.

Funny you should mention the civil service, my friend works for the civil service.

Well fair play ta ya, you have proved my point - only a civil servant can afford to spend time walking for 3 1/2 miles to get to work and take the train for a further half and hour. I am sure he hasnt a care in the world. If he worked in the private sector he might not have such leisure time.

I love the fact that when I mention that the station is of no use, people either hit out that the walk wont hurt you or that you are only 15 mins from o'connell street or the best, you dont have to use the station if you are so down on it. As the other posters and I have mentioned the other stations are closer to O'Connell st area etc, rendering the station a last choice if even !and the second point that people want to get to where they are actually going.

Let say your civil servant friend goes to work in Sandyford and see how he will get on coming from clonsilla, or another one where commuters on the southside will not use the luas even though it is outside their houses because they work in the IFSC and drive to blackrock adding to traffic to get the dart to get to connolly. Now if someone had the cop on to join the southside luas to pearse, both of these problems would be fixed, as well as helping the traffic somewhere along the way. If civil servants are unable to think like this, they will not get the complexity ofthe journeys of people taking the services are. They need to get this as do you.

daymobrew

dodgyme wrote:

Well fair play ta ya, you have proved my point - only a civil servant can afford to spend time walking for 3 1/2 miles to get to work and take the train for a further half and hour. I am sure he hasnt a care in the world. If he worked in the private sector he might not have such leisure time.

That's as fact-less as the articles about Docklands trains causing traffic mayhem in Dublin 15 and I won't respond.

dodgyme wrote:

If civil servants are unable to think like this, they will not get the complexity of the journeys of people taking the services are. They need to get this as do you.

I think you need to get the politicians to 'suffer' like regular people, not necessarily civil servants. My friend couldn't influence the Dept of Transport and more than you or I.

dodgyme

daymobrew wrote:

That's as fact-less as the articles about Docklands trains causing traffic mayhem in Dublin 15 and I won't respond.

Well all I can say is you were the one who brought your civil service mate into the argument.

daymobrew wrote:

I think you need to get the politicians to 'suffer' like regular people, not necessarily civil servants. My friend couldn't influence the Dept of Transport and more than you or I.

This is the whole problem. Think about it. The dept of transport just do (very little ) for what they think we need and dont give the people using the service what they need. I mean remember when Cullen did the Meath commute last year and declared that the 'traffic was terrible'. Well really, thanks for that you really smart human being! really! the traffic is bad because the minister says so. In dublin we have dart, buses, Luas, arrow. If a alien came from space they would think wow 4 modes of public transport, dublin people must be very lucky but its crap. The station in the docklands is another example of a uncoordinated policy.

Metrobest

the Manhattan or Sydney Harbor of Dublin...

Well, that's stretching it a little bit.. Though I take the point that this is a growing area, we have to look at where people want to go right now, and for the time being that's not Docklands, it's the central business district of the south city centre where people work, study, shop and socialise.

In an ideal world, everyone would happily take the train to Docklands and walk the mile or so to their destination, but human nature dictates this is unlikely to happen.

In Sydney, all suburban lines converge on an interconnector style arrangement, the City Circle. It's worth noting that of the six city circle stations, the two least busy are the ones which don't run through the core streets of the city. Even though certain stations are only a few hundred metres apart, patronage levels vary wildly - depending on location.

It's also worth noting that I often get a seat on the train in peak hour, even with a five train per hour service on my line. The suburban sprawl pattern of Sydney mirrors Dublin's, with the key difference being that they have devised a unique urban rail system to service the sprawl, with double decker 8-car trains on every service. Double decker trains on the Maynooth line would alleviate much of the overcrowding.

It also helps that in Sydney's suburban system, 250,000 people are commuting to the same few sqaure miles of the skyscraper-filled central business district, rather than all over the place, like in low-rise Dublin.

If Docklands could achieve the critical mass of demand - and we are talking about at least twenty corporate skyscapers which commuters could fill - then the station would be a key destination in its own right. But as a cul-de-sac into "junkie central" off an overcrowded city line, it does little to attract commuters.

Chris_533976

Docklands will take a few years to take off, but I am really glad that for once, IE are looking ahead and planning ahead a bit without having to be dragged kicking and screaming a few years later once traffic gridlock sets in due to no public transport.

silverside

i don't see the problem really. impression i have is:

- in an ideal world you would have loads of trains going to drumcondra connolly and pearse
- at the moment this is not practical (lack of forward planning/ lack of capacity on the main line) so there are *Extra* trains going to docklands. there is no quick fix for this short term.
- docklands is a bit out of the way, but there are shuttle buses and it is walkable.
- there are some teething problems with ticketing and people not knowing which trains go to the city centre
- there are some extra delays at the level crossings for car commuters, but these have been overhyped, and are not irish rail's responsibility.

it seems IE are doing their best on this. i know they do still have major problems with the attitude of some staff (aul sweats) but their management seem to be moving in the right direction.

in contrast, london has trains at 2 minute intervals and they are jammed solid throughout the morning rush hour (from 0730 to 0900). it is great to have more capacity but it will get filled up quickly.

dowlingm

According to P11 Docklands-Clonsilla is a result of planning permission for the Hansfield SDV.

Of course it would be better if some of the services went into Connolly.

Of course it would be better to hoover up some Docklands bound people west of Clonsilla to make space for Clonsillans who want to go to Connolly.

But that's what IE have got to do, legally.

BendiBus

Kaiser2000 wrote:

I think a lot of you are missing the OP's point... namely that this station is great for people who work in the immediate area, but of no real benefit to anyone else

Couldn't you say that of all stations?

Docklands is an addition to the public transport system, allowing extra services, and in a fast developing part of the city. It will be hugely successful. Not every commuter in Dublin has to pass through it for it to be a success.

Airmail

Check out www.dto.ie/docklands.html to see walking distances from docklands station. You can also see connolly and other station walking distances on dto.ie

Victor

tungsten wrote:

apparently the docklands station will only have a shelf life of 10 years!!

Thats to force them to build the Interconnector.

Dr.Bunson wrote:

It is forward planning to build the station before the buildings in that area are complete, but it's no forward planning to make it only accessible to the residents of Dublin 15??? They should have looped the line through Connolly, or run a commuter service between the two stations.

They already have a loop through Connolly. How would your loop work? To operate a shuttle service between Docklands and Connolly means going via Cabra.

Enigma365 wrote:

My point is that if people are willing to walk the 15 minutes from Pearse to the Stephens Green Luas on a daily basis, then they will be willing to walk 15 minutes from the docklands station to places like westland row, pearse street, merrion square, grand canal dock, o connell street, and many other parts of D1 and D2. In other words the docklands station serves more than the IFSC and the docks, just as Pearse station serves more than Pearse street and Westland Row.

It would make sense for say the 46A to start in Docklands, but when I checked the planning file the other day, the corresponence on bus services (a planning condition) to Docklands was only missing. Using the 46A would take some pressure off O'Connell Street and provide access from Dockland into D2 and the N11 corridor. For no extra buses and no extra journey time.

cymro wrote:

One question, and i should know this but anyway. which way does the train go to the docklands station? back of hill 16 or the canal end? I was just curious because a previous poster said that it doesnt go through drumcondra.

It follows what is known as the Midland line, along the canal.

Kaiser2000 wrote:

I think a lot of you are missing the OP's point... namely that this station is great for people who work in the immediate area, but of no real benefit to anyone else -

Yes, I would love to use this station to get from D6 to D2.

I used to get the train from Coolmine to Connolly/Pearse, then a DART to Shankhill (side note: generally this took anywhere from 90 mins to 2 hours onaverage. When I got the car I could do it in under an hour - and that was via the quays/city cente to the N11).

But don't you live near Coolock and and near Blanchardstown? Are you saying you deliberately gave yourself a commute rather than living near work?

This new train/station would be useless to me for example. And whilst of course, you can't please/serve everyone, the whole selling point of Public Transport is SUPPOSED to be (or should be!) fast, cheap and efficent - a 15/20 minute walk JUST as far as O'Connell St in our variable weather conditions is hardly a selling point. Neither is asking people to pay more for a shuttle bus and braving the city centre/quays traffic to (in a lot of cases) make another connecting service anyway.

Then buy a feeder ticket :rolleyes:

The existing trains empty out most at Drumcondra and Connolly which suggests THAT'S where/have they want to go. People want to get from A to B as fast and hassle-free as possible. Making them go through point C, D and E in between however, because some civil servants reckon it's the "best" solution (read: quickest and short-term.. foresight seems to be a dirty word in this country's planning in general) isn't gonna work.

No, blame the minister for delaying funding on the signalling upgrade in the city centre.

bk wrote:

People are missing the long term view. Development in the North Docklands is about to explode. Just today they got the go ahead to build a 120 meter high apartment building at the point theater, along with a shopping center and 12 screen cinema. 10s of thousands of apartments are being built in the area along with 100s of thousands of square meters of office space. This is likely to become one of the busiest parts of the city center, the Manhattan or Sydney Harbor of Dublin.

Problem being that many North Docklands residents will work in the city and not a whole lot will work on the Maynooth line.

dodgyme wrote:

Well fair play ta ya, you have proved my point - only a civil servant can afford to spend time walking for 3 1/2 miles to get to work and take the train for a further half and hour. I am sure he hasnt a care in the world. If he worked in the private sector he might not have such leisure time.

Not only is your comment obnoxious, but its thoroughly misguided. What of those people who drive to work and then drive to the gym? Hows that for irony? What someone does on their own time, while reducing congestion, is none of your business.

Let say your civil servant friend goes to work in Sandyford and see how he will get on coming from clonsilla,

He might consider the M50.

or another one where commuters on the southside will not use the luas even though it is outside their houses because they work in the IFSC and drive to blackrock adding to traffic to get the dart to get to connolly.

Smarter would be to get the Luas to St. Stephen's Green and either walk or get any of a multitude of buses to Westland Row or O'Connell Street.

Now if someone had the cop on to join the southside luas to pearse, both of these problems would be fixed, as well as helping the traffic somewhere along the way. If civil servants are unable to think like this, they will not get the complexity ofthe journeys of people taking the services are. They need to get this as do you.

Now I really think you should check as to whether Mary O'Rourke is in the bath or not, because thats her fault.

Metrobest wrote:

But as a cul-de-sac into "junkie central" off an overcrowded city line, it does little to attract commuters.

You've been away too long. I've never seen a junkie in the 10 or so times I've been down to Docklands. One is much more likely to see them southside.

dowlingm wrote:

Of course it would be better if some of the services went into Connolly. Of course it would be better to hoover up some Docklands bound people west of Clonsilla to make space for Clonsillans who want to go to Connolly.

Docklands - Clonsilla and Maynooth - Loopline keeps it simple. In theory, Maynooth people could change at Clonsilla, but I don't think thats practical until there is more rolling stock.

Airmail wrote:

Check out www.dto.ie/docklands.html to see walking distances from docklands station. You can also see connolly and other station walking distances on dto.ie

Ah wonderful, point to the worng place and don't tell people about the Sean O'Casey bridge.

daymobrew

Airmail wrote:

Check out www.dto.ie/docklands.html to see walking distances from docklands station.

It doesn't work in Firefox, but does in IE. I've reported this to DTO, suggesting that they produce a PDF file, as is the case for all the other station maps.

Kaiser2000 wrote:

a 15/20 minute walk JUST as far as O'Connell St in our variable weather conditions is hardly a selling point.

I see this 'weather' line used as a argument against cycling. It rains on commuters a lot less than people claim. As a commuter cyclist I know this from experience.
Here's how to think about it: if you are walking/cycling, you are outdoors for a small portion of the day. It might rain that day, but not necessarily during rush hour.

pclancy

Does anyone that works in Baggot St area know how long the walk from docklands should take? I want to try it on Monday but dont want to be late for work....Im guessing 20 minutes at least?

Pineapple stu

Why go to the docklands when you can get off at grand canal dock or lansdowne rd.?

pclancy

Have to be in work for 8:30, only train i can get is 7:18 from coolmine to pearse or 7:40 to connolly and walk. Both trains are usually very busy and was wonder would the docklands train be more roomey!

daymobrew

pclancy wrote:

Does anyone that works in Baggot St area know how long the walk from docklands should take? I want to try it on Monday but dont want to be late for work....Im guessing 20 minutes at least?

The DTO Journey Planner says 26 mins for Docklands to Lower Baggot St. You'll probably do it in under 20 (their walk times are quite conservative). And it'll be good exercise (and a nice view as you cross the Liffey).

pclancy

Cheers. Had a look at the DTO site but couldnt work out the distances.

Aint nothing wrong with some more excercise!

Enigma365

If you walk from Connolly to Baggot Street sometimes, then it should be no problem to walk from Docklands station to Baggot Street as they are nearly equidistant.

I lived beside Spencer Dock last year(National College of Ireland), and the walk from there to Pearse station was 9-10 minutes. Docklands station is about 2-3 minutes further away and Pearse to Baggot Street would be about 7 minutes. 20 minute walk all-in I'm thinking. I'm a quick walker tho.

Having lived basically where the station is btw, I can say that is not even close to as isolated as some people are making out. I walked everywhere. Docklands to College Green would be a max 20 minute walk for me.

Yes, I would love to use this station to get from D6 to D2.

Maybe I'm missing something, but how could a station on the north side, serving only northside stations, help you get between two southside points?

dodgyme

Victor wrote:

What someone does on their own time, while reducing congestion, is none of your business..

Not if it is stuck on a internet posting board!? no its not doh?

Victor wrote:

He might consider the M50.
..

Again the whole point of public transport to not use the M50 and not everybody drives , again where they need public transport. Now your the one being obnoxious.

Victor wrote:

Smarter would be to get the Luas to St. Stephen's Green and either walk or get any of a multitude of buses to Westland Row or O'Connell Street.
..

This guy is coming from foxrock and I would say he would do this if it was smarter!. Public transport need to be convenient and it isnt.

Victor wrote:

I've never seen a junkie in the 10 or so times I've been down to Docklands. One is much more likely to see them southside...

I know that area very well between the docklands and east point and it is a crap hole.

_Kaiser_

Victor wrote:

But don't you live near Coolock and and near Blanchardstown? Are you saying you deliberately gave yourself a commute rather than living near work?

At the time I was living in Blanch and working in Shankhill (but have family in Coolock, hence why I've used that as another example in the other thread).

Then buy a feeder ticket :rolleyes:

I did use the weekly ticket as it happens, but you're missing the point. Adding another connection to the journey (and having to wait for same), or asking people to pay more, or asking people to walk 20-25 mins further than they perhaps already do isn't the way to tempt people out of their cars. This is a major commuting route and they should be making it easier, faster and cheaper to get from A to B, not the opposite.

No, blame the minister for delaying funding on the signalling upgrade in the city centre.

That's half the problem in this country. Everyone blames everyone else - "responsibility" or "accountability" isn't in the vocabulary it seems.

pclancy

Left the office on fitzwilliam st at 6:05, was sitting on the train in docklands at 6:35, that wasnt even very fast walking! Got four seats all to myself and id say there was only about 50 people on the train! Got off at coolmine station spot on 7pm.

For half an hours nice walk to get a seat versus 10 minutes walk to get jammed on like a sardines toenail at pearse is well worth it in my book.

daymobrew

pclancy wrote:

For half an hours nice walk to get a seat versus 10 minutes walk to get jammed on like a sardines toenail at pearse is well worth it in my book.

I'm glad to finally read an opinion like this - you can't put a 'time' value on comfort - but sometimes the extra walk time is worth it.

dodgyme

daymobrew wrote:

I'm glad to finally read an opinion like this - you can't put a 'time' value on comfort - but sometimes the extra walk time is worth it.

Think you must have vision problems - what about the bit where he says
"Got four seats all to myself and id say there was only about 50 people on the train!"
Great we are paying for empty trains which is my point! With all the needs for public transport we are paying for extra trains which 50 people use. You could put that number on a bus and you think that proves your point.

"you can't put a 'time' value on comfort" - think of the cost of that service per passenger? , no passenger needs four seats all to themselves and has a big happy grin that this is the case. Its not right and a waste of money.

Also he mentions "extra walk time is worth it", ya a lovely evening it was last night, no surprise there, say if the wind was high and cold and his umbrella was getting trashed while trying to avoid cars spashing him on the pavement as he crossed a wind swept liffey bridge. Oh and let say he was coming from mmm say sandyford or donnybrook and see how much the extra walk would be appreciated after a 10/15 min wait for a bus and a further walk to docklands and then a 50/50 chance of a 39 before 15min wait after getting off the train, followed by around 10-15 mins walk to get in the door.

BendiBus

dodgyme wrote:

Great we are paying for empty trains which is my point! With all the needs for public transport we are paying for extra trains which 50 people use. You could put that number on a bus and you think that proves your point.

It's a brand new service! Passenger numbers will grow significantly. It the trains were full from day 1 it would have been slammed for failing to plan for the future.

Oh and let say he was coming from mmm say sandyford or donnybrook...

What are you on about????

dodgyme

BendiBus wrote:

What are you on about????

Dont ask if you dont bother to read the other posts

BendiBus

dodgyme wrote:

Dont ask if you dont bother to read the other posts

Docklands isn't designed for people travelling from Sandyford to Leixlip or whatever.

To repeat my earlier point it's an additional offering and loads will grow significantly on Docklands trains.

Why do you have such a problem with this?

dodgyme

BendiBus wrote:

Docklands isn't designed for people travelling from Sandyford to Leixlip or whatever.QUOTE]
What are you on about????

markpb

dodgyme wrote:

BendiBus wrote:

Docklands isn't designed for people travelling from Sandyford to Leixlip or whatever.

What are you on about????

Calm down.

In an ideal world the Docklands station would be part of an integrated public transport network for Dublin. This is the real world. It's nothing more than a quick'n'dirty way of providing extra capacity on the Maynooth line in line with the planning permission for Hansfield SDZ.

It has a life-span of ten years because it should, by then, be replaced by the underground Spencer Dock station which will serve the interconnector and play a bigger part in the overall network. Until that time, we're playing catch-up and trying not to fall too far behind.

dodgyme

markpb wrote:

Calm down. .

I am calm

Enigma365

Dodgyme is the public transport grinch.

Markpb is right. Its a quick and dirty short term fix. Its not like they sat down and said "shall we have a station in a less than ideal location, or shall we send more trains into connolly". Docklands station was the ONLY option for the maynooth line in the short term. The alternative was to do NOTHING for 2 years until more trains can be sent into Connolly. Would you prefer that, your grinchiness?

"Got four seats all to myself and id say there was only about 50 people on the train!"
Great we are paying for empty trains which is my point! With all the needs for public transport we are paying for extra trains which 50 people use.

I would imagine that the trains TO Docklands are more heavily travelled on than the trains FROM Docklands, for obvious reasons. Also that train left at 6.35 which is towards the end of peak travel. If all the trains to and from docklands had 50 people on them, then you would have a point. I doubt that to be the case though.