masturbation and spirituality

maitri

StormWarrior wrote:

If one is striving to become spiritually and mentally pure, do you think masturbation is a hindrance?

Just like most people here I believe the answer to this one is “No”. (Though you are of course the only one to decide for yourself whether to masturbate or not).

I also tend to think that it is not so much about “becoming spiritually and mentally pure” as understanding that you already are… pure. Masturbation does not make you dirty or defiled. Nor does your history of “sleeping with the wrong people” (as you say) make you polluted. Sleeping with the wrong people may have caused you suffering of course – and some hard won wisdom perhaps – but it's not at all true, or even possible, that this has polluted your soul or your inner self, IMO.

This of course doesn’t mean that there’s something wrong in your need/longing for purity either. I'm just saying that you long for something you already are/ you already have. (And I really believe this is the secret behind all deep human longings and needs).

BTW, do you know what the feeling of “being pure” would give you?
What is it in purity – in feeling pure – that you long for?

StormWarrior wrote:

I really want to prefer the idea that masturbation can be an expression of spirituality, I'm still trying to resolve that one though.

As I see it masturbation – like walking in the mountains, combing your hair and mostly everything else – is a spiritual act if you try to be aware… of your needs, your feelings and your thoughts in an accepting (loving) way. If you try to use whatever you are feeling or experiencing (it be pain, love, frustration, self blame, lust, sensuality, sorrow, happiness, boredom, longing…) to “open your heart” and to train yourself in acceptance of yourself (and therefore also of others like yourself) and whatever you are feeling and experiencing right now – instead of "closing your heart" from fear or pain (as we tend to do when we are not aware), I don’t think that it can be called a waste of time, spiritually speaking. (Though of course from a worldly point of view, I can understand that you think eight times a day is a little bit more time than you want to spend on it.)

I’m also thinking that you now feel like an obstacle to spirituality, might then very well turn out to be more like a teacher that leads you to (your inner source of) wisdom and compassion, part of your way.

You also talk about feeling that you are “going to burst” and “overpoweringly” and unbearingly strong” urges. This sounds very painful and frustrating and I really hope you don’t have to feel like this for much more time.

From my own experience I know that when sexual frustration becomes this strong and troublesome, it’s usually no longer only about “not getting any” but there are also probably several other needs “masking” themselves as need for sex. I believe this is fairly common.
As you say:

StormWarrior wrote:

It’s not just the sex but everything else you get with "the one".

It might be helpful for you then to sit down some time and find – and really feel without “running away” or trying to fix or solve anything – what exactly your needs are. What it is that you miss and long for. What you are hoping for the sexual union to give you. What are your longings, your needs, right now.
Be warned, though: Daring to feel (even for a short time) the full strength of your needs and longings – and perhaps sorrow, old wounds, frustration and anger, too – without running away into a fantasy can be painful as h… and it might really take the heart and courage of a warrior to do it (and be sure to be kind to yourself if you try it), but it’s in my experience also very rewarding. It doesn’t necessarily give immediate relief, but for me it usually feels so much better the next day/days – and this is true for all kinds of frustrations, not only the sexual ones.
If your feelings are very strong, maybe it will be wise to have the support of a good and encouraging counsellor, though.

I don’t know about you, but one thing I accidentally found out when I was about your age (and single and very frustrated) was that what was really “killing” me – what almost made want to jump out of the window or bang my head into the wall of pure frustration – was not so much lack of sex per se, but actually the lack of human touch in my life. Living without sex is of course dreary at times, but I can cope with that (grinding my teeth of course, and thinking dark and envious thoughts, when it’s spring and everybody is kissing everywhere:( ), but living without human touch is like slow death and torture. I only found out about this because I started to work in a nursing home for old people, and the old people kept hugging me all the time, and even though that contact was totally non-sexual, the result was that what I had thought was pure sexual frustration just evaporated as long as I worked there. I would never have believed it if I hadn’t experienced it myself. (Of course I still longed for a boyfriend, but I sure no longer felt like jumping out of the window from frustration.)
So maybe you need to be hugged more? (I’m sure you have friends who would be delighted to hug you.:) ) Or to get a nice relaxing massage as 6th suggested?

StormWarrior wrote:

I never had an orgasms through sex either

About the orgasm thing: For most women there are psychological reasons for not having orgasms, and if you are brought up to feel sex is wrong and sinful, that might very well be the reason. (And if you work with those issues there is a very good chance you’ll learn how to have one.) But for some women there are physiological reasons for not being able to have an orgasm, and from what I’ve heard it’s actually quite easy to correct today, so maybe it would be worth the trouble to go see your gynaecologist about it, just to be sure that it’s not a physiological problem?
Anyway I know some women who don’t get orgasms, but who are still happy and content about their love lives…

StormWarrior wrote:

It’s I don't just dream about "random" sex. I always fantasise that I find my soulmate and that's who it's with. I'm desperate for that - not just the sex but everything else you get with "the one".

It’s a sweet dream. It really is.
But are you using this fantasy because it’s really what you want to fantasise about, or do you feel an obligation to keep your fantasies "pure and moral"? You don’t have to answer this question, I just came to think of it because, I would think most people would probably use something a little bit more, er, “naughty” if it’s orgasm they’re after... But I guess everybody is different when it comes these matters.

StormWarrior wrote:

I'm definitely ready for the spiritual path, I have had revelations and now have permanent strong feelings telling me when I'm off course.

That’s great! Then you already know that in the end the only person who can tell you what is right and wrong for you is… you.

StormWarrior wrote:

About being comfortable with my sexuality. I was brought up catholic.

Oh, me too. And I remember I was told by priests and teachers that masturbation was a grave sin that had to be confessed. And so was fantasising about sex (Sexual feelings were alright, though – as long as they didn’t lead to fantasies.) As a young teenage girl I healthily decided that those priests were just old and stupid meanies and that they were wrong, but was later “brain-washed” into believing it for many years.
And just the horror of having to confess those particular “sins” to an old male priest…:eek:
(Made me sleep with my hands where I could see them for a long time. )

StormWarrior wrote:

I suppose I've always seen it as something to be controlled and conquered.

Yeah, I guess it’s the natural result of such upbringing as we’ve both have had. I really tried to conquer my sexuality for many years as well. No need to tell I totally failed. Now I just try to see it as a part of life - and a possibility to open my heart - just as everything else. Like most things in life it’s not something to be solved once and for all, but something to be worked on on a daily basis. And I guess there are still plenty of battles to lose for me ahead.:p
I guess sexuality just sometimes brings pleasure and sometimes pain and frustration. Very much like most things in life. Like life itself.

I don’t know if you can use anything of what I have written, StormWarrior, but for me it has been very beneficial to re-address these issues. So thank you for posting this thread.:)

And sorry for the loooong post. And my bad English.

Take care!

M.:)

DublinWriter

StormWarrior wrote:

If one is striving to become spiritually and mentally pure, do you think masturbation is a hindrance?

Masturbation isn't a hindrance, but obsession is.

For example, when Siddharta Gautama (The Buddha) was starting out early in life, he observed many of the Hindu Yogis (aesthetic Holy Men) partaking in Herculean acts of almost physical disbelief, some Yogis fasted almost to death, others held their right arms up during waking hours for years upon years in constant agonising pain.

Acts of symbolic, ritualistic physical pain, denial and sacrifice are nothing new to religion. Arguably the Christian faith is entirely cantered around one such act (The Crucifixion) and before the current Catholic Roman church as we know it today consolidated its powers in the 5th Century AD, there were several now-purged ‘heretical’ sects, one of which lived entirely up trees/columns, another acting as total lunatics (“The Holy Fools”).

The best proverb I can offer up is from a ex-Hindu Brahman and founder of the Hare Krishna movement who stated that the physical body is like a ship on the ocean. All will come to fail if the ship (the person/soul/what ever you are having yourself right now) is over come by the sea (the physical universe and it’s pleasures as we know it) and the ship will sink and not complete its voyage. The ship must remain afloat: partially emerged in, but not totally submerged by the sea/physical world.

My personal take is that indulgence and denial are both are ends of the same spectra; a spectra like the sea that we are birth-bound to be a part of, yet that we must consider objectively to be truly aware of it’s eddies and tides.

…in other words, an early Roman comic dramatist hit the nail on the head when he said “Moderation in all things”.

MissFitz

MeatProduct wrote:

If it helps celibacy is more relevant for men as they lose sexual energy through ejaculation and women lose it through the monthly cycle and child birth.

I'm interested in this point. Would women not also lose sexual energy through orgasm?

JC 2K3

^Ejaculation is not the same as orgasm.

Women don't ejaculate(at least not in the same manner as men, some expel fluid with orgasm however), do not experience a refractory period and therefore do not have to control ejaculation to retain "sexual energy" after orgasm.

MissFitz

JC 2K3 wrote:

^Ejaculation is not the same as orgasm.

Women don't ejaculate(at least not in the same manner as men, some expel fluid with orgasm however), do not experience a refractory period and therefore do not have to control ejaculation to retain "sexual energy" after orgasm.

Yes I understand this, I was just confused at women's "sexual energy" being lost "through the monthly cycle and child birth". I think I understand now if we are speaking in terms of the reproductive process/cycle of males and females and the energy flow in the body related to this??

Hivemind187

StormWarrior wrote:

If one is striving to become spiritually and mentally pure, do you think masturbation is a hindrance?

Check out the Bible of Satan, if for no other reason than to enlighten yourself to what its about. Masturbation is considered to be a very positive thing spitiually in the ethos, both physically, psyhologically and metaphysically.

Best of all ... no guilt

cinnamon

If one is striving to become spiritually and mentally pure, do you think masturbation is a hindrance?

I've always thought of orgasm as a very spiritual experience. The fact that you experience it alone or with a partner doesnt matter. At the moment I dont have a partner - does that mean I shouldnt experience it?
We are sexual beings and I dont think that denying our urges will make us pure. For me it is an aspect of my being that I embrace. It is one of the many ways I have a spiritual connection - others are doing a sport I really love, having a really good laughing session with friends, doing something kind for someone, etc, etc

Marksie

cinnamon wrote:

a really good laughing session

Interestingly, certainly in tantra, laughing orgasms, whether alone or with someone are seen as cosmic events.

cinnamon

marksuttonie wrote:

Interestingly, certainly in tantra, laughing orgasms, whether alone or with someone are seen as cosmic events.

do you mean having an orgasm just by laughing or is their sexual contact?

estar

natural, part of who you are and to be enjoyed

i don't think that denial of the self is part of purity, or should be.

harmony with the world around you - unconditional love of the
self without hang ups

acceptance of yourself and others as they are

and a commitment to a better world, peace and love

that is purity to me anyway

not the denial of self, pleasures and the sins of the flesh

to use a christian turn o'phrase

that doesnt really achieve anything

however i am aware this is just my little old opinion.

Marksie

cinnamon wrote:

do you mean having an orgasm just by laughing or is their sexual contact?

Well i have experienced it following sexual contact, but it sort of grew and you didn't know where the laughter and the orgasms separated to be honest.
It was hard to tell which followed what, and to experience it with a partner who up until then really hadn't had an orgasm at all was what made it all the more special.

Oryx

marksuttonie wrote:

Well i have experienced it following sexual contact, but it sort of grew and you didn't know where the laughter and the orgasms separated to be honest.
It was hard to tell which followed what, and to experience it with a partner who up until then really hadn't had an orgasm at all was what made it all the more special.

Does having an uncontrollable fit of the giggles after orgasm count?:)

Marksie

KtK wrote:

Does having an uncontrollable fit of the giggles after orgasm count?:)

It couldn't hurt

Actually, i found a link, but its not work safe and innapropriate for this forum i guess, so i will post in S + s

Nevyn

It is possible to have an engery orgasm by using certain breathing techniques, which get deeper and faster, laughter can be part of that.

Marksie

Thaedydal wrote:

It is possible to have an engery orgasm by using certain breathing techniques, which get deeper and faster, laughter can be part of that.

Agreed Thaed. Though mine are usually as part of conscious breathing processes, so incorporating laughter would induce this.

The instance I am talking about was spontaneous, or perhaps subconscious.

Nevyn

Well there are many estatic paths in spirituality, dancing, laughing, eating
( caramel eclairs....../drools ), drinking it is not always about the sex.

Marksie

Thaedydal wrote:

Well there are many estatic paths in spirituality, dancing, laughing, eating
( caramel eclairs....../drools ), drinking it is not always about the sex.

Prefer custard slices myself .

Again all of the above (excluding the sex) are part and parcel of tantra, opening and sensory awakening. It is after all about celebration and the ecstatic response and the spirituality of it all.. shakti's dance.

Mind you (thinking abstractly), any emotion can be amplified..i remember laughing, crying and shouting all within the same breahting meditation.

But this laughing orgasm was different from that (I am finding it hard to explain..my english isn't that good) as it occurred during congress.


Me juts remembers the whilring dervish meditation :-). Wooo