masturbation and spirituality

StormWarrior

If one is striving to become spiritually and mentally pure, do you think masturbation is a hindrance?

JC 2K3

Depends on what you believe in.

Tantra, for example, promotes sexual meditation. Christianity, for example, promotes sexual abstinance.

Scofflaw

StormWarrior wrote:

If one is striving to become spiritually and mentally pure, do you think masturbation is a hindrance?

Unless you treat it as pretty much the same as any other bodily function, I would think so. It's not so much the act of masturbation as the lusting.

cordially,
Scofflaw

StormWarrior

I think I will have to look into tantra then, because I just don't know how i could live without lusting and masturbation. I mean, how are you supposed to control that?

Nevyn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantra

Tantra is about controling it and using such engerys to gain enligthenment.

StormWarrior

Thanks, I have just read that but I'm still not quit sure what to do. It says you need to sublimate the desires, so I looked up sublimation and it said,"a sexually perverse person who is accustomed to wasting time and energy on sex, might instead rechannel those outlets towards expressions of sexuality such as art." I don't understand quite what this means.

In another passage it says "The guru takes into account individual proclivities and spiritual achievement. The guru usually considers the path appropriate only for certain individuals whose temperament and self control will enable them to forego sexual indulgence — a necessity, if the act is to serve as a tool to transcend identification with the mortal body. As with other tantric practices the presence of a guru is a paramount and essential condition."

Does this mean I need to find a guru to help me? I waste so much time and energy on masturbating and fantasising. I would love to find a more useful outlet.

Nevyn

to divert the energy of (a sexual or other biological impulse) from its immediate goal to one of a more acceptable social, moral, or aesthetic nature or use.

Is a better defination.
The idea behind it being to use that engery or impluses from sexual engery to
work on personal development and towards enlighten ment.

There are many many rescoursces out there about tantra, solo work is often called just that or white tantra.
I would suggest you search for breathing excerises the and philosphies of tantra.

Marksie

Hi,

In simple answer to your question no. Thaed has rightly mentioned tantra and if you PM me i will give you some resources to get you going.

In the end, the lusting the horniness is energy. But you can be celibate and still practice tantra, or perhaps neo-tantra would be closer for westerners. At its simplest form it is connecting to your sexual self and through that expanding your awareness, from there it really has infinite possibilities. Whether increasing self awareness, taking yourself and partner (if you have one) to a greater understanding of each other, through to waking up one morning and just feeling so connected to everyone and everything that i cried, to even experiencing visions.

It depends on how deep you want to go if you need a "guru" there are accredited teachers in ireland who are very helpful in doing both workshops and one one one sessions as well as couples sessions.
Though i statred by reading books and practicing, i found that with a teacher i could be nudged in different directions and newer and different understandings... basically i had reached the end of one path and just needed a guide to help me to the next one.

Stormwarrior: I don't know if this is more appropriate for the s+s forum ... but masturbation in solo work are fine...i normally try and focus all that energy around my body. and would start with chakra work before progressing to meditation and then masturbation. With a partner it is a little different.
But you contro it by channelling it.

One of the teachers is a christian... and she explains tantra thus: "it truly made me understand what it was to love my neighbour".. and she meant that in a non sexual context.

I think it is important to realise that we are talking about modern tantra here.

I am at work so cannot send you a link ... but type in chandra bindu institute and that will give you some idea.

I guess before i ramble on too much it depends on what you are looking for. But that only becomes more clear to you once you step on the path...
It is an opening to infinite possibilities, i don't even know where i am going... but that is not the point really.

There is also Taoist philosophies as well, a little different.

Oryx

I dont know anything about tantra, so I just want to refer to the original question: does masturbation get in the way of spiritual development and 'purity'. Imo, it does. because your mind is focussed on your more base, sexual urges. I know people who use tantra have trained themselves to use this energy in a different way, but as someone who cannot, I find that sexual thoughts and masturbation definitely hinder my spiritual 'work'.

Sexual energy with another person, (the right person) can work in a different way, that kind of meeting of minds as well as bodies when your with someone you really click with, can actually be a very enlightening experience.

6th

I find that sexual energy is one of the most helpful things at my disposal when doing any sort of energy work. Its easy to charge up and is on tap. Keeping the reigns on it isnt always easy but its something I will be looking at more for the future.

As KittyKat says it can be a serious hinderance if you're not in the right enviroment or with the right people.

StormWarrior

So, 6th, how do you divert the energy for other uses? I still don't really understand the concept.

Shiminay

That is something I'm having a lot of difficulty working on too, movement of energy and re-applying it to other areas. With time (and help), I've been able to do something about it. Look into chakra work, some meditation will help.

StormWarrior

I've been doing a little chakra clearing and meditation. Its not helping with this though. My sexual urges are so overpoweringly strong that I masturbate a minimum of 8 times a day, am often late for class because of it, and feel like if I don't do it I will explode!

And I think lustful thoughts all day, every day. It is wasting alot of time!

6th

Well then not to sound rude but you should go read alot more. We dont start by 'doing' we start be learning - thats how it works for me anyway.

I learnt how to use the energy partly through doing a psychic development course and then by going and starting my own development circle.

dr.bollocko

You seem to be using masturbation as a stick to beat yourself with. It seems that it is your main distraction, a drug, a supression of wishes to fornicate, rather than an indulgence in self love or a narcissistic act. I would view it as a daily staple forced into place through frustration and kept there through the addiction of routine. From a spiritual or religious point of view, I guess it depends on how much you buy into your own spirituality. Re. the potential for sublimation, in this modern world, is masturbation a more valid expression of lust and sexual desire than an artistic interpretation of the same frustrated feelings?

StormWarrior

I don't just dream about "random" sex. I always fantasise that I find my soulmate and that's who it's with. I'm desperate for that - not just the sex but everything else you get with "the one". Still, I do pleasure myself far too much.

So Glad

'tis a hard game to quit, no harm in going cold turkey, although, it's easier said then done.

Here's an idea! Why don't you stop masturbating FULL STOP, until you find yourself someone else to love (sexually), then it'll be so much rewarding. As everyone here has said, focus all your energy on finding a soul mate.

Scofflaw

StormWarrior wrote:

I've been doing a little chakra clearing and meditation. Its not helping with this though. My sexual urges are so overpoweringly strong that I masturbate a minimum of 8 times a day, am often late for class because of it, and feel like if I don't do it I will explode!

And I think lustful thoughts all day, every day. It is wasting alot of time!

Hmm. Perhaps the first thing to realise is that you will not explode. Masturbation is largely a habit, like coffee or cigarettes (although a good deal more healthy). Much like them, one feels that one couldn't possibly give them up, but can.

By the way, if you're in your late teens (reference to 'late for class', although that could be college), then being a permanent walking hard-on is pretty normal. It's a design element, same as the aggressive urges, and dies off over the next few years - well, at least to the point where you can think about other things. Am I talking from experience? Yes.

The other thing that will help is sexual relationships. These are unlikely to be with the 'one' for quite a while - and in any case, you'll probably fluff that one if you have no prior experience. Having said that, don't get involved in sexual relationships for the sake of the sex - that is a good deal more spiritually damaging than masturbation.

You might want to consider that you're not really ready for a practical spiritual path yet. As 6th said, you can (and should) study the path before you walk it, particularly if that walk is constantly interrupted by five-knuckle-shuffle stops.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Shiminay

I think Scofflaw has hit the nail on the head.

I'd see this as 2 seperate issues. The frequent masturbation is probably a habitual thing at this stage (anyone who thinks an experience as fabulous as an orgasm isn't addictive may need to have 1 or 2 more ) and thus it's a case of breaking the cycle. Don't feel hugely pressurised about it, it'll happen. A sexual partner will be a big help.

As for spirituality, you spoke about becoming "spiritually and mentally pure" which is a fine goal for anyone to set themselves. As mentioned by JC, different paths have different opinions on it. I would think however, given the urges you have that there is something that needs to be worked through. If you have a particular path in mind, do some reading like the others have suggested, it really will help.

A brief note on the energy side of it. It's difficult for me to put into words as it's something that's still very, very new to me, but when you're feeling that high after orgasm (or that over-powering urge to rub one out), think about what it is you need to do or want to help. Feel the energy (be it the post orgasmic bliss or the all powerful urge to get there) flow through you and your chakras from feet to head and out and "send" it on it's way to where/what/whoever you think needs it. Imagine it travelling towards it's goal and getting there and the chances are, it will
For the love of all that's holy or unholy, do not try and keep the energy inside yourself or your brain will explode (or fell like it has)! I'm not joking, it can be very painful (as I have learned the hard way). Learn how to ground yourself before doing anything else just incase...

StormWarrior

I'm female and nearly 24, I have had sexual relationships before but they were not fulfilling as they were with the wrong people, which I reget. So now I will be sure to wait until I find the right person. I have actually never had an orgasm.

I have polluted my soul by sleeping with very wrong people before, I'm trying to cleanse myself.

I'm definitely ready for the spiritual path, I have had revelations and now have permanent dtrong feelings telling me when I'm off course.

I have an almost unbearably high libido, and I have been masturbating since I was 9, since before I even knew what it was I was doing. I just somehow need to channel that energy elsewhere.

oleras

StormWarrior wrote:

I'm female and nearly 24, I have had sexual relationships before but they were not fulfilling as they were with the wrong people, which I reget. So now I will be sure to wait until I find the right person. I have actually never had an orgasm.

I have polluted my soul by sleeping with very wrong people before, I'm trying to cleanse myself.

I'm definitely ready for the spiritual path, I have had revelations and now have permanent dtrong feelings telling me when I'm off course.

I have an almost unbearably high libido, and I have been masturbating since I was 9, since before I even knew what it was I was doing. I just somehow need to channel that energy elsewhere.

8 times a day for 15 years and never reached climax ? what are you doing wrong ?

StormWarrior

I wish I knew! I never had an orgams through sex either. I hope its because the universe is waiting until I meet my soulmate.

oleras

StormWarrior wrote:

I wish I knew! I never had an orgams through sex either. I hope its because the universe is waiting until I meet my soulmate.

Nah, its a physical thing, i think your just doing it very wrong.

oleras

You say you are even late for classes because you have to knock one out because you feel as if you will explode. If you dont climax, where does the relief come from ?

Shiminay

oleras wrote:

Nah, its a physical thing, i think your just doing it very wrong.

I wouldn't necessarily say that, could be a mental block. We're venturing into the realm of the S&S board here. I hate to ask a horrendously akward and personal question of a complete stranger (and on a public web board), but are you comfortable with your sexuality and orientation? Are you comfortable with yourself and who you are?

Getting back to a Spirituallity point, are you sure you've got the right path? If so, who can you talk to to help you along that path, it doesn't always have to be travelled alone.

StormWarrior

I still get some relief without climaxing.

About being comfortable with my sexuality. I was brought up catholic and was always warned, "NEVER have sex until you're married!" My mum was always warning me against that kind of thing. So now there's always a big part of me that feels it's wrong.

I'm not sure what my exact spiritual path is, all I know is that I feel the need to cleanse myself.

oleras

Kharn wrote:

I wouldn't necessarily say that, could be a mental block.

What 9 year old has a hang up about sex ? I know when i was 9/10 and discovered that there was an end result it was the reason i done it again. Im pretty sure if nothing happened,eg no climax i dont think i would have kept it up for so long. Then again there could be something a lot darker going on with your past StornWarrior that might be better discussed with a professional. Then again this could all be BS. Only you know.

oleras

StormWarrior

I didn't find out what sex was until i was 10, and i had never heard of orgasms until some years later, so i didn't know there was an end result. I only knew it felt good to mess around down there. I can't think of anything "dark" in my past that would cause this. Anyway, we're going a litltle off track. I still can't decide whether I think masturbation is spiritually ok or not!

Shiminay

StormWarrior wrote:

About being comfortable with my sexuality. I was brought up catholic and was always warned, "NEVER have sex until you're married!" My mum was always warning me against that kind of thing. So now there's always a big part of me that feels it's wrong.

There in lies some of the problem I'd imagine. I had a big anti-catholic rant typed out and I've just deleted it as it's not helpful

With regards to this cleansing idea, I'm not sure what you might try. Different faiths/religions/paths have different ways of doing it, be it confession or meditation or simply having a bath!

I hope someone else can offer some help, I'm afraid I'm out of ideas

[edit]
Is it spiritually ok or not, I think it's more a question of do you find it ok or not. The spirituality thing will follow.

oleras

StormWarrior wrote:

I didn't find out what sex was until i was 10, and i had never heard of orgasms until some years later, so i didn't know there was an end result. I only knew it felt good to mess around down there. I can't think of anything "dark" in my past that would cause this. Anyway, we're going a litltle off track. I still can't decide whether I think masturbation is spiritually ok or not!

if you cant climax why do it 8 times a day ? are you seeking an orgasm ? maybe if you do some research on pleasuring yourself and end up having an orgasm it might answer your question. As far as i am concerned if you are masturbating and not having an orgasm you are not masturbating. So basically shoot first and ask questions later !

Shiminay

oleras wrote:

As far as i am concerned if you are masturbating and not having an orgasm you are not masturbating.

That's incredibly narrow-minded and very, very un-informed. If you have sex and don't orgasm does that mean you've not had sex? Broaden your definitions, what's masturbation for you is not the same as for everyone else, remember that.