masturbation and spirituality

Nevyn

Scofflaw wrote:

Sexuality (and masturbation) is generally regarded as something that can lead to spiritual progress if the person transcends the physicality of sexuality. That is, they need to be someone on whom sex, and sexuality, has almost no grip whatsoever. I don't think that's the case for you.

That is not the case, were it not for my work learning and understanding of my sexuality in a spiritual nature I would most likely be a sex adict.

There are more ways to be spiritualy sexual then being celibite.

Scofflaw wrote:

In many senses, what one does with sexual energy is the exact opposite of what you're doing - let it build up, and become a 'force', or 'energy'. You then channel that towards whatever spiritual goal you are aiming for. To some extent you'll know this is working because it releases the libido, so that it is no longer building up.

Nope it can be that the more of it you use the more of it your body produces
rather then doing it trought denial.

Scofflaw wrote:

There are things you can do with uncontrolled sexuality, but they would be, I think, rather more 'left-hand' paths (so to speak).

:rolleyes:

What on earth do you mean lefthanded path ? a gangbang orgy to raise engery ffs it is learning what control is needed to express uncontrolled sexuality is what is needed and can be achieved.

Scofflaw wrote:

'Ascetic physical component' - something rather solidly physically uncomfortable - freezing cold baths, that kind of thing - however Victorian that might make me sound! The reasoning being that something like that is more likely to put you mentally in the right state than a gentler approach. However, it's just my opinion (as someone who had rather a high libido, and was unquestionably an excessive masturbator in my teens and twenties).

Again a puritan measure and point of view and not the only one there is.

Scofflaw wrote:

As I said, though, it would be better if you got advice on ritual or spiritual paths from those on this board who are more active in those areas.

We are trying but people are muddying that water.

Scofflaw wrote:

Otherwise - glad to hear it about the stress. However, if there's no medical reason (in the widest sense) for repetitve masturbation, then it really does begin to sound like a habit - acquired early, and never lost. Have you ever given it up, and if so, for how long? Also, the 'acquired early'...have you changed the way you masturbate, or are you still doing it the same way you always did?

Stormwarrior you certainly do not have to answer such explict personal questions.

Scofflaw wrote:

Orgasms from sex I discount - it's not at all unusual for a woman not to have had any even in her twenties (on a related note, if you do meet someone who does give you orgasms, do not assume from it that they are the right person - my sister did that, and the results were unfortunate).

Again you are not seeing the whole picture some women are orgasmic from an early age. A woman should start by exploring her sexuality and be learning her body and her responses instead of waiting arround for some one else to give her an orgasm.

stormwarrior wrote:

I really want to prefer the idea that masturbation can be an expression of spirituality, I'm still trying to resolve that one though.

I would ask how you would view sex and sexuality in fitting with in your spirituality; something to be controled and conquered or something to be embraced and enjoyed ?

Scofflaw

Thaedydal wrote:

That is not the case, were it not for my work learning and understanding of my sexuality in a spiritual nature I would most likely be a sex adict.

There are more ways to be spiritualy sexual then being celibite.

Nope it can be that the more of it you use the more of it your body produces
rather then doing it trought denial.

Good, so. That makes you a much better adviser than me.

Thaedydal wrote:

:rolleyes:

What on earth do you mean lefthanded path ? a gangbang orgy to raise engery ffs it is learning what control is needed to express uncontrolled sexuality is what is needed and can be achieved.

Again a puritan measure and point of view and not the only one there is.

We are trying but people are muddying that water.

Stormwarrior you certainly do not have to answer such explict personal questions.

Obviously!

Thaedydal wrote:

Again you are not seeing the whole picture some women are orgasmic from an early age. A woman should start by exploring her sexuality and be learning her body and her responses instead of waiting arround for some one else to give her an orgasm.

As a general dictum, true.

Since Thaedydal is confident that he/she knows much better than me, and there is good likelihood that he/she is right, I shall duck out. I wish Stormwarrior the best of luck.

regards,
Scofflaw

StormWarrior

I suppose I've always seen it as something to be controlled and conquered. My heroes have always been really "pure" things, like my number one hero is Sir Galahad, and I love unicorns. When I was young I was totally into the idea of unicorns only being revealed to those who are virgins. Plus being brought up catholic.

How can one be more spiritually sexual than by being cellibate?

what control is needed to express uncontrolled sexuality?

Shiminay

StormWarrior wrote:

How can one be more spiritually sexual than by being cellibate?

In my opinion, you've got that backways. Sex (both the act and the desire for it) is a perfectly natural thing (like breathing or eating when hungry) and doing something un-natural like being celibate is hardly being spiritual. Wiccans call it the Great Rite and with good reason (I'm not Wiccan btw, I'm sure someone on the Paganism board could help you out if you wanted more info on that). For me, to be spiritually sexual is to relish and worship sexuality and enjoy it to it's fullest potential (and this is where that energy stuff Mark and I have been harping on about comes into it). I also see sex as an opportunity to worship the goddess in women. Again, that's just me and I'm not going to pretend for one minute that'll work for everyone.

If you feel you should be on a path that promotes abstainence and celibacy you may wish to return to Catholicism - I'm not sure what else there may be as it's not something I've examined (see my above point about thinking celibacy being un-natural ).

An alternative of course is to find something that works for you - that may even be worshipping the great flying spaghetti monster, it's not important. What matters is (I think) that you're happy - be it having a **** 20 times a day or never indulging again.

This purity thing you seem to have going on, in your own opinion, is someone who is being untrue to themselves and denying their needs pure? If you can't be honest with yourself, then who? I'm not saying everyone should give in to every whim they have, balance is key. You have to be able to face and accept every side of your personalilty though, the part that loves unicorns is just as valid and important as the side that want's to masturbate all the time. Most important of all is that you need to learn to accept and love the person who has all these feelings and desires and find a way to bring all these differing ideas together into one being.

Another thought (And you may have answered this already, sorry if you did), the last time you had sex, did it relieve the tension and headaches and urges etc? You don't need to answer that publically, but think about it. If it helped, and if it felt good then maybe it's not such a good idea to cut it out of your life completely (as the masturbation doesn't appear to help). I wouldn't suggest you hop into the nearest nite-club at half 2 and grab the closest thing you can find but don't rule out the possibility of a sexually active relationship with a partner who will respect you.

Marksie

JC 2K3 wrote:

See this is what I find hard to grasp about spirituality. I've done all that breathing/relaxing while masturbating and slowly approaching orgasm rather than jerking off as fast as I can, therefore I ahve too "empirically felt it". And I have felt the "electricity" of a kiss and "horniness". However, how has this got to do with anything more than chemical changes in the brain? What's the deal with this seemingly fabricated(to me) "energy" and "spirits" stuff?

You know, for several years i would have agreed with you on this. I practiced tantra in a limited context.
However, when attending workshops it opened a new avenue and a one of deeper udderstanding. Of course that started within myself, and continues that way. but i think it is all about energy (and i am going to debate that later)
I am going to try and explain, probably badly .. personally how it affected me. By using the meditative aspects during lovemaking i was able to look at myself as a person, connecting again. It enabled me to isolate and analyse certain emotions, which while not exactly negative where unbalancing my system. In in simplest context, one moring i woke just feeling connected to those around me. So it has enhanced personal development, made me more compassionate, understanding towards others and more able to understand others views. That was one part... some may consider that to be moving on a spiritual path thats for others to decide really
The energy: Well, i find that i am more energised, awake, i can move it around my own system and share it with a partner. I am still learning and exploring those paths, but for me it works. i have lost the sense of self with aprtaner and i have drifted away, seen visions and figures... felt totally at peace and felt that there was "something" just with me. I don't know what it was, i have suspicions, but the feelings it gave me were wonderful and very hard to express here.
So, as i said i am probably detailing it very badly, and certainly others may disagree... but that is what is happening to me personally, now. So as such what you are seeing in the post is a snap shot of where internally i am going.

Oleras: It is Bioelectrical energy certainly, most processes involve the use of bioelectrical energy which is then transformed into, for the sake of argument, kinetic energy if you lift something . What tantra deals with is the transformation of that energy in the higher centres. But you are fixated on the point of orgasm there is a lot of build up to that which can be felt and used. I prefer to use the word higher state rather than plane.
No i don't believe that your assertation about hormonal affects is true, remeber endporphins and the like are finite, they are subject to depletetion (mdma for example promotes a flood of serotonin into the system.. that is the real tricking of the brain). I find that i consciously choose how far i want to go and where I go. Further, you find the sensations don't start with a general feeling over the body initially (well not for me anyways), but at the base of the spine which i can then work upwards consciusly. The above is something that cannot be done if it is merely a hormone/receptor response.
Oh i saw your post to kharn about discussing it out in the open and not in the S+s forum.. i don't ghink it is becasue we have anything to hide, just that this is totally public and S+s is very open discussion which was deemed not to be suitable, for obviuos reasons. There is a lot of crossover as there was a thread on this and S+s as well... So hope that explains it .

Scofflaw: I personally don't have aproblem with someone being celibate, neither does tantra, as long as it is a conscious open choice from someone who is connected with themselves. It is possible to have an open sexual nature, recognise it and transform that sexual energy. The issue i would have is if you repress your essential self, ice baths and the like i have to say are an excessive way to quash such urges. It is almost like self flagellation, whihc can also be a way of changing sexual energy into another form.
i am also concerned that you hjave mentioned bi-polar disorder in storm warrior case. I am not qualified to say anything about that, unless you are I think it is somewhat irresponsible.


Stormwarrior: to an extent your answer to Thaedydal's question is telling. that you think that sexuality is to be challenged and conquered. Even before considerations of whether a celibate or sexual lifestyle is your chosen spiritual path, i would feel that it is important you balance within yourself your own views on sex and sexuality. To set aside your sexuality without fully understanding it, would be to set up for potential conflict later. If you subsequently consciously set aside your sexuality haveing embraced it, then that is a different matter.

There ARE others here who may be more conversant with rituals and meditations. I have detailed you one or two very basic ones to begin to explore, but wouldn't go into any more deatils. A) because i feel you shuold explore in your own way, in your own time. I am not a teacher as such

StormWarrior

Kharn wrote:

Sex (both the act and the desire for it) is a perfectly natural thing (like breathing or eating when hungry).

But the same way as one could eat something unhealthy like junk food, or breathe something unhealthy like pollution, just because sex is natural does that mean that it's ok? It just seems to me that if so many spiritual leaders throughout the ages were into celibacy, there must be something to it.

Kharn wrote:

This purity thing you seem to have going on, in your own opinion, is someone who is being untrue to themselves and denying their needs pure?

You have deifinitely given me something to think about here!!

Kharn wrote:

the last time you had sex, did it relieve the tension and headaches and urges etc? QUOTE]
No! Sex has never helped me at all. To be honest, I've never really got much out of it. I prefer ****. I always dreamed of only ever being with my soulmate, then ended up sleeping with blokes who were totally wrong for me. Maybe that's why.

StormWarrior

marksuttonie wrote:

it is important you balance within yourself your own views on sex and sexuality.

I wish I knew how! I am becoming even more confused than ever!

Marksie

StormWarrior wrote:

But the same way as one could eat something unhealthy like junk food, or breathe something unhealthy like pollution, just because sex is natural does that mean that it's ok? It just seems to me that if so many spiritual leaders throughout the ages were into celibacy, there must be something to it.
.

Like catholiscism..where celibacy was imposed? (ok stop there mark! )
But yes many spiritual eaders have CHOSEN a celibate path, others haven't. IN the end, it is what YOU freely choose that is important.

sex is ok and its a misleading to link it with junk food etc.

Ok if you are confused stormwarrior, take step back and deep breathe. I am getting a lot of infomation that says there is a lot of conflict within you and that far from a discussion on spiritual paths what is emerging is this sense of conflict.

So take your time, begin to look within yourself at what and why you are feeling like this. Don't try to run before you can walk. I am not going to counsel you one way or another. BUT you have my pm, if you want to just get things of your chest or put it in writing do so.

StormWarrior

Yes, I am suffering EXTREME conflict! The more I think about it, the more confused I become. I don't know what to do.

Marksie

StormWarrior wrote:

Yes, I am suffering EXTREME conflict! The more I think about it, the more confused I become. I don't know what to do.

Remember we are giving opinions here. There is no need for you to act on any or all.

Put this aside in your mind for the moment, you more than anyone else here knows you.

For the now, just don't try and force anything, take time out, you are only 24 and it is not a race. Choosing a path shouldn't be a conflict but a joyous time.

oleras

marksuttonie wrote:

You know, for several years i would have agreed with you on this. I practiced tantra in a limited context.
However, when attending workshops it opened a new avenue and a one of deeper udderstanding. Of course that started within myself, and continues that way. but i think it is all about energy (and i am going to debate that later)
I am going to try and explain, probably badly .. personally how it affected me. By using the meditative aspects during lovemaking i was able to look at myself as a person, connecting again. It enabled me to isolate and analyse certain emotions, which while not exactly negative where unbalancing my system. In in simplest context, one moring i woke just feeling connected to those around me. So it has enhanced personal development, made me more compassionate, understanding towards others and more able to understand others views. That was one part... some may consider that to be moving on a spiritual path thats for others to decide really
The energy: Well, i find that i am more energised, awake, i can move it around my own system and share it with a partner. I am still learning and exploring those paths, but for me it works. i have lost the sense of self with aprtaner and i have drifted away, seen visions and figures... felt totally at peace and felt that there was "something" just with me. I don't know what it was, i have suspicions, but the feelings it gave me were wonderful and very hard to express here.
So, as i said i am probably detailing it very badly, and certainly others may disagree... but that is what is happening to me personally, now. So as such what you are seeing in the post is a snap shot of where internally i am going.

Oleras: It is Bioelectrical energy certainly, most processes involve the use of bioelectrical energy which is then transformed into, for the sake of argument, kinetic energy if you lift something . What tantra deals with is the transformation of that energy in the higher centres. But you are fixated on the point of orgasm there is a lot of build up to that which can be felt and used. I prefer to use the word higher state rather than plane.
No i don't believe that your assertation about hormonal affects is true, remeber endporphins and the like are finite, they are subject to depletetion (mdma for example promotes a flood of serotonin into the system.. that is the real tricking of the brain). I find that i consciously choose how far i want to go and where I go. Further, you find the sensations don't start with a general feeling over the body initially (well not for me anyways), but at the base of the spine which i can then work upwards consciusly. The above is something that cannot be done if it is merely a hormone/receptor response.
Oh i saw your post to kharn about discussing it out in the open and not in the S+s forum.. i don't ghink it is becasue we have anything to hide, just that this is totally public and S+s is very open discussion which was deemed not to be suitable, for obviuos reasons. There is a lot of crossover as there was a thread on this and S+s as well... So hope that explains it .

Scofflaw: I personally don't have aproblem with someone being celibate, neither does tantra, as long as it is a conscious open choice from someone who is connected with themselves. It is possible to have an open sexual nature, recognise it and transform that sexual energy. The issue i would have is if you repress your essential self, ice baths and the like i have to say are an excessive way to quash such urges. It is almost like self flagellation, whihc can also be a way of changing sexual energy into another form.
i am also concerned that you hjave mentioned bi-polar disorder in storm warrior case. I am not qualified to say anything about that, unless you are I think it is somewhat irresponsible.


Stormwarrior: to an extent your answer to Thaedydal's question is telling. that you think that sexuality is to be challenged and conquered. Even before considerations of whether a celibate or sexual lifestyle is your chosen spiritual path, i would feel that it is important you balance within yourself your own views on sex and sexuality. To set aside your sexuality without fully understanding it, would be to set up for potential conflict later. If you subsequently consciously set aside your sexuality haveing embraced it, then that is a different matter.

There ARE others here who may be more conversant with rituals and meditations. I have detailed you one or two very basic ones to begin to explore, but wouldn't go into any more deatils. A) because i feel you shuold explore in your own way, in your own time. I am not a teacher as such

Great post Mark, cleared a lot of things up.

Marksie

oleras wrote:

Great post Mark, cleared a lot of things up.

Thanks .. nothng like having a bit of time to actually put things down.

Shiminay

StormWarrior wrote:

But the same way as one could eat something unhealthy like junk food, or breathe something unhealthy like pollution, just because sex is natural does that mean that it's ok? It just seems to me that if so many spiritual leaders throughout the ages were into celibacy, there must be something to it.

A fair point, but eating and breathing (and sex if you like) are things we need to do to survive. Doing them incorrectly or in a bad way (in the manner you've mentioned) is bad. In the same way that unprotected sex isn't a good idea. Some spiritual leaders may have fasted or whatever, but they didn't give up food entirely. 1 thing that celibacy proves is strength of will. Some people need this to focus themselves I guess - it's a reminder that they can do whatever tasks are being asked of them - look at how they conquered that sex thing?

StormWarrior wrote:

You have deifinitely given me something to think about here!!

That's the idea

StormWarrior wrote:

No! Sex has never helped me at all. To be honest, I've never really got much out of it. I prefer ****. I always dreamed of only ever being with my soulmate, then ended up sleeping with blokes who were totally wrong for me. Maybe that's why.

I think you may have invested too much in this idea of a soulmate (it's a wonderful goal though, don't give up on it). I think it may also be in part to your mother's Catholic "sex is evil" bit. Sex can be good and bad, this is true. The old joke amongst computer programmers is that it's like documentation, when it's good it's incredible, when it's bad it's better than nothing.

Marksie

Kharn wrote:

A fair point, but eating and breathing (and sex if you like) are things we need to do to survive. Doing them incorrectly or in a bad way (in the manner you've mentioned) is bad. In the same way that unprotected sex isn't a good idea. Some spiritual leaders may have fasted or whatever, but they didn't give up food entirely.QUOTE]

Nice analogy. good post

Nevyn

StormWarrior wrote:

How can I strip and cleanse myself?

Why do you feel the need to do this ?

If you found that to your mind now your less then stellar choices in the past are regretful
and so are some of you actions and what you did and what the results were
then you do need to make peace with them.

Life is a learning curve and it is through experiences we learn and sometimes the most valuible lesson is " I will never do That again, I will never disrespect myself in such away or use others or let myself be used like that again." They can be very harsh ones to learn.

StormWarrior wrote:

Another thing, although I have excessive sexual energy,I am severely lacking in mental energy. I find it very hard to concentrate and get mentally tired easily.

Yep my consentration goes totally out the window if I let myself get into a state like that, so much so I absent mindly reached over the kettle as it came to the boil and got myself a nice 2nd degree steam scald and it had been I turned the kettle on and was waiting for it to boil.

StormWarrior wrote:

The phyical urges may be because of this though: I had a blood test which showed I have unusually high levels of testosterone for a girl.

I believe that physical effect the spiritual and the spiritual effect the physical.
Some women have higher sex drives then what is preceived as the 'norm'
I would be one of them too but unfortunatly in your case it is frustrated.
You emotions and you thinking do effect your body and if you are having issues with your sexuality and your drive being an impure thing and something you want rid of then no wonder you are having conflicts satifying your needs.

You are a woman and a sexual creature.
You can't go back to being a non sexual child, pandora's box was opened.
For some reason a lot of women seem to think that unless they are in a relationship they should not be a sexual creature. That a loving realtionship is needed to make your wants and needs and drives ok to have.
Your sexuality is something you should cherish and be grateful for and share with those you consider worthy of such a gift.
You can forgive yourself for as you put it 'abusing' your sexuality and set about honouring it.

StormWarrior wrote:

I'm pretty stress-free, I don't drink, smoke or take drugs nowadays

Sounds like you have learn to value your sobierty and that is a wonderful gift;
also that you were not happy with the life you were leading and what you were doing and you changed it, which is wonderful and brave and such an act of will power.

But there are somethings we can not change about ourselves, we need to be able to understand instead.

StormWarrior wrote:

I suppose I've always seen it as something to be controlled and conquered. My heroes have always been really "pure" things, like my number one hero is Sir Galahad, and I love unicorns. When I was young I was totally into the idea of unicorns only being revealed to those who are virgins.

Ok but unicorns would also reveal themseleves to those that were pure of heart.
Also Virgin does not mean in it's oldest contest one who has never had sexual intercourse but "maiden, unwedded girl or woman," a woman over whom no man had a hold or rights.

Such used to be the ways of our culture before christainity and puritain ideals and the restriction of sexuality by victorian mores.

http://www.menstruation.com.au/periodpages/virgin.html

There are many Virgin Goddesses encompassing many different fields of enterprise. What they have in common is the fact that they are self-contained, pure, independent, uncorrupted and unpartnered.

Virgin in this context has more to do with state of mind and attitude rather than physical attributes or sexual status .

Often the Virgin goddesses were unmarried, but this did not mean that they were necessarily asexual. In fact, some of the virgin goddesses expressed their sexuality openly, owning their sexuality proudly and without shame. It was not given away or bartered or owned by their partners, it was wholly and solely within their dominion.

The Virgin goddess appears whenever a woman is pursuing her own desires and ideas for herself . The Virgin or Maiden has been given a bad rap as a selfish wanton being for centuries in a culture that has taught women to only please and look after others to the exclusion of all else. She is now making a come back as women everywhere are beginning to follow their own hearts and dreams to manifest a reality other than that of partnerships, motherhood and child rearing.

StormWarrior wrote:

Plus being brought up catholic.

We all struggle with our up bringing but you are an adult and you have to decide that is right for you in your life and what you believe in.

StormWarrior wrote:

How can one be more spiritually sexual than by being cellibate?

It is your body created by what ever God/s you beleive in and it is something sacred all of it. You tend you body's needs the same way you need to eat and eating is a pleasure but it is up to you wether you eat fast food or a well cooked nourishing meal. Honour your body give it what it needs in a postive, loving nurturing way.

Learn to listen to your bodys wants and needs and have a chat with your
yoni/vagaina/cúnt. Don't cut yourself off from that part of yourself, clearly this has not been working for you and is very much affecting you mentally and emotionally. You have to work at agatting yourself back into balance so you can function in your life.

StormWarrior wrote:

what control is needed to express uncontrolled sexuality?

The dicotomny of this always makes me laugh personally, sometimes you restain something you have to let it loose.
That is you have to give yourself permission to go wild with your sexuality
inorder to give you body what you need so that you can get on with other things in your life.

Nope I am not talking about jumping the first person who catches your eye or about planning an orgy.
Put some tme aside to pamper and indulge yourself.
Treat yourself and your yoni to a new sex toy and make a date with yourself.
Try and think on it as rewarding yourself and not a chore or a distasteful thing.
Hounour yourself and make a deal with your body that you will do this again and in the mean time you will not 'snack' and just try and take the edge off a few times a day.

StormWarrior wrote:

But the same way as one could eat something unhealthy like junk food, or breathe something unhealthy like pollution, just because sex is natural does that mean that it's ok? It just seems to me that if so many spiritual leaders throughout the ages were into celibacy, there must be something to it.

I striving to learn about my own sexuality I was driven to learn about sexuality in general
and while due to western culture there are asepects of human sexualtiy that are not spoken of or explored.

I would suggest taking the time to learn about sacred sexuality and how other cultures and in other times it was not taboo or a dirty thing.

There are in india temples of worship that are covered on the outside with just about every possible combination of human (adult) coupling, they are a celebration of sexuality and fertitly.

Do some research, broaden your horizons and make up your own mind.
You are at the start of a wonderful adventure as you explore your own sexualtiy and sexuality in general.

This may help http://www.sacred-texts.com/sex/index.htm

JC 2K3 wrote:

What's the deal with this seemingly fabricated(to me) "energy" and "spirits" stuff?

It is something you have to have an experienece of to understand and until you do it can be frustrating and nearly impossible to explain a bit like trying to explain colour to the blind.

Scofflaw wrote:

Since Thaedydal is confident that he/she knows much better than me, and there is good likelihood that he/she is right, I shall duck out.

I happen to be a person of the female gender , a practioner of sacred sexuality, a mother, and a member of a fertility cult.

I do accept that for some it is possible that the denial of sexual urges can work for them but there are some people for which it is not possbile and infact damaging to them and thier mental, emotional and spiritual well being.

Kharn wrote:

Wiccans call it the Great Rite and with good reason (I'm not Wiccan btw, I'm sure someone on the Paganism board could help you out if you wanted more info on that).

Nope.
The mysteries of sacred fertility cults would not be that much of a mystery if bandied about on the interweb; but I will say it is about honouring the feritily of humans and you have to having and understanding of your own sacred sexuality and also there is more to paganism and non christain/judaic/islamic religions then Wiccan which is a initatory mystery religion.

StormWarrior feel free to pm me, if you feel the need.

JC 2K3

Thaedydal wrote:

It is something you have to have an experienece of to understand and until you do it can be frustrating and nearly impossible to explain a bit like trying to explain colour to the blind.

I guess I'll stay being a cynic then

StormWarrior

Thaedydal wrote:

Why do you feel the need to do this ?

If you found that to your mind now your less then stellar choices in the past are regretful
and so are some of you actions and what you did and what the results were
then you do need to make peace with them.

I'm trying to make peace with the actions I regret. I'm not sure how just yet though. I feel like I need some kind of cleansing, I just don't know what.

Thaedydal wrote:

Yep my consentration goes totally out the window if I let myself get into a state like that

I don't think my sexual frustration has got anything to do with my lack of mental energy. I had glandular fever when I was 15, and I've never recovered totally. A homeopath has given me something for it though, so I hope that will help.

Thaedydal wrote:

Ok but unicorns would also reveal themseleves to those that were pure of heart.
Also Virgin does not mean in it's oldest contest one who has never had sexual intercourse but "maiden, unwedded girl or woman," a woman over whom no man had a hold or rights.

Such used to be the ways of our culture before christainity and puritain ideals and the restriction of sexuality by victorian mores.

http://www.menstruation.com.au/periodpages/virgin.html

Thanks especially for this!!

Thaedydal wrote:

We all struggle with our up bringing but you are an adult and you have to decide that is right for you in your life and what you believe in.

I know, but when you're just starting out it can be hard to get life-long beliefs out of your head!

Thaedydal wrote:

Hounour yourself and make a deal with your body that you will do this again and in the mean time you will not 'snack' and just try and take the edge off a few times a day.

I will try!

Thaedydal wrote:

I would suggest taking the time to learn about sacred sexuality and how other cultures and in other times it was not taboo or a dirty thing.

I will look into it!

Nevyn

You could try a ritual bath

Ritual Bath to Cleanse Yourself of Transformed Emotion

Fill up your tub, and add some bath salts and favorite essential oils for cleansing.
Also, fill a small pitcher with a combination of the water salt and oil. Do not get in yet
Say: "I perform this act of cleansing in water where all life began."
Step into the bath. Once seated, take the bowl or pitcher in your hands. Imagine a white, healing light surrounding and infusing the water within.
Say: “As the cleansing waters pour over me I am cleansed in body and spirit. All unwanted feelings of shame, anger, guilt, and fear are now washed away."
Pour the water over your head, imagining that as you pour you see a brown, mucky substance washed away from you. As this muck hits the water see it transformed into clear blue water.
When you feel the time is right, allow the water to go down the drain.
Say: "As the water disappears, never to be seen again, so too have my unwanted feelings. As the dirt was transformed to clear water so have my feelings been transformed. Blessings to the old ones for this work performed. "
Step out of the tub

And also remind yourself that if you have gone a month with out sex and your period then your womb has be made over a knew and also that at the rate at which the human body sheds skin cells none of the ones that came in contact with your former sexual partners remain part of you.

If you are still a catholic or feel that you would benefit from reciving confession why not give that a try ?
Even pick a church a distance from where you live and go and confess.

I woudl suggest that you pray for guidance and remember that each day you are closer to who you want to be and furhter from who you were.

StormWarrior

Thanks! I would love to give the ritual bath a try. Only prob is I can't pour water over my head. I have a permanent, severe ear infection problem and must never get water in my ears or it'll get a million times worse. Maybe I could try and make my own variation of that bath.

Anyway, I will try and think of something similar, suggestions appreciated. Even though I'm not catholic any more, I think confession may help! I will go to church tomorrow.

Nevyn

EEEIIIIIIIIIIIIII

I had a double ear infectioin once for 48 hours and nearly was driven demented,
I woudl not wish it on my worst enmy

hunnymonster

stormwarrior I used to get a lot of ear infections and pouring some olive oil in and sealing with swimming plugs allowed be have showers and go swimming. Obviously don't do this without checking with your doc/nurse but it might help. An ear ache combined with a tooth ache would be what I would not want to wish on my own worst enemy.

Years ago I saw a picture. It was a distorted human with the various body parts grown or shrunken in accordance with the importance our brains attach to them. Hands, feet and head were massive in comparison to the other parts. I've searched for it a number of times but I was about 10 when I saw it so can't remember what it was called. If anyone was a smarter 10 year old than me, can you remind me?

Everyone else, I've read through this thread and my head hurts. My library card will probably get a bashing tomorrow with stuff I want to read up on. Happy world book day everyone!

Mark Sutton, you're a biologist, life sciences don't count (signed the quantum physicist!)

Scofflaw

hunnymonster wrote:

stormwarrior I used to get a lot of ear infections and pouring some olive oil in and sealing with swimming plugs allowed be have showers and go swimming. Obviously don't do this without checking with your doc/nurse but it might help. An ear ache combined with a tooth ache would be what I would not want to wish on my own worst enemy.

Years ago I saw a picture. It was a distorted human with the various body parts grown or shrunken in accordance with the importance our brains attach to them. Hands, feet and head were massive in comparison to the other parts. I've searched for it a number of times but I was about 10 when I saw it so can't remember what it was called. If anyone was a smarter 10 year old than me, can you remind me?

Everyone else, I've read through this thread and my head hurts. My library card will probably get a bashing tomorrow with stuff I want to read up on. Happy world book day everyone!

Mark Sutton, you're a biologist, life sciences don't count (signed the quantum physicist!)

Your mean the little 'nervous system homunculus' - this is an example, rather more up to date than the picture version.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Asiaprod

Thaedydal wrote:

I do accept that for some it is possible that the denial of sexual urges can work for them but there are some people for which it is not possbile and infact damaging to them and thier mental, emotional and spiritual well being.

I would consider myself to be one of the latter. I would find celibacy very damaging to my mental, emotional and spiritual well being.

Scofflaw

Asiaprod wrote:

I would consider myself to be one of the latter. I would find celibacy very damaging to my mental, emotional and spiritual well being.

...chastity...(I'm such a pedant).


cordially,
Scofflaw

hunnymonster

Scofflaw, yes that's the one. Thanks for that.

StormWarrior

hunnymonster wrote:

sealing with swimming plugs allowed be have showers and go swimming.

Do you know of any earplugs that are 100% waterproof? My doctor said he didn't know of any waterproof enough for me as my ears are so sensitive to water, I get an infection if it even rains and a few drops go in my ear. But it's a bugger, I really want to give the ritul bath a go!

Nevyn

Check with your local chemist.

Marksie

hunnymonster wrote:

Everyone else, I've read through this thread and my head hurts. My library card will probably get a bashing tomorrow with stuff I want to read up on. Happy world book day everyone!

Mark Sutton, you're a biologist, life sciences don't count (signed the quantum physicist!)

Yes, the chemists i work with think i turn lead into gold or some such ... but hey don't you quantum physicists have to keep reinventing rules cos it all breaks down at some point.. what a wonderful cosmos.

if you are looking for books though, try to avoid any with an over abundance of positions detailed. It is covering the wrong aspects tbh
I could give you a small literature list of you PM.

But look for stuff by:]
margot anand.
Ma ananda sarita and swami anand geho
Mantal chia and manweewan chia are worth a look, they are exercise based and more taoist.
caroline aldred is ok, but i find the glossy pictures of positions a bit irritating personally. There are some interesting toning exercises but she has a chapter on sexual reflexology which is intruiging

MeatProduct

I hope you have found some peace StormWarrior. I was reading through the thread and there has been some great advice. Obviously sexual energy works differently for men and women but it's methods of transformation can be quite similar. Sexual energy is very important in order to maintain your meditation however you say your focus is not great, I have the same sort of problem from time to time. It takes many years to master your sexual energy, at least 10 years seems to be a minimum so take it easy on yourself as not many people have attained that these days What helps me is certain chi gung exercises and I can recommend to you this book:

Healing Love Through the Tao: Cultivating Female Sexual Energy

You can get that from Amazon. If you read that you'll have a much better idea of what's going on and it gives exercises you can practice also. This book is a bit serious, it doesn't mess around and some would say it's a bit extreme. You can do this two ways, work internally on breaking down your beliefs or tackle it from the physical/energetic level as this book describes. If you want to cleanse yourself, and I can really relate to that then get this book:

The Tao of Health, Sex, and Longevity

It goes into diet, cleansing and fasting. I can highly recommend that as it's been of huge benefit to me.

If it helps celibacy is more relevant for men as they lose sexual energy through ejaculation and women lose it through the monthly cycle and child birth. It's called "jing" in Chinese, known as vital chi/energy. There are exercises women can do to stop the monthly cycle to retain more sexual energy but I don't think you need that in your case. I would say don't make any sudden changes and start to observe yourself when you have the desire to masturbate and notice any feelings associated with it. What do you seek from masturbation, what does it give you? What is the desired outcome? What can it give you that you don't already have? The mind is a real tricky bugger!

I hope I have been of some help,

Nick

alliekatt

Scofflaw wrote:

...chastity...(I'm such a pedant).


weeeeeeeelllllllllllllllll technically according to the RCC, monogamy within marriage is chastity too. Celibacy is the complete withholding of all sexual contact with other human beings. In other words, someone can be celibate but be a complete wankaholic in which case according to the good old RCC they're definitely not chaste. However if you shag your marriage partner every moment you can get without using birth control, you are officially practising chastity.

In other words, you are officially permitted to generate another 200 tonnes of landfill material and 100,000 tonnes of CO2 through used carbon and waste resources of every human being you produce for the baptismal and sunday coffers of the old RCC, and still go to heaven while the earth gets destroyed by overpopulation, but if you have a ****, you are sinning against yourself and every lost sperm will float up screaming to God and the angels that they have been unfairly aborted.

(Cue MP's 'Every Sperm is Sacred')



alliekatt