masturbation and spirituality

StormWarrior

I guess thats why I do it so frequently, because I'm not getting enough relief!

I'm so confused now whether its ok or not, I just don't know!

6th

Listen its all grand relax ... take a break from it all and go get a good massage. Start off by seeing if you can go a day without it.

As for meditation, have a nice long soak in the bath with some candles. You need to learn to relax before you can do anything else.

Nevyn

Sounds like you are snacking instead of having a meal and you are not filling up or getting the satifcation you need, and I complete understand and your are normal.

http://www.yoni.com/

Is a good site and I suggest that you have a look at thier yoni massage.
You need to learn to connect to you body and your sexuality.

I have to dash but i promise i will be back and post up a cleansing ritual for you to try.

StormWarrior

Thanks, I will take a look at that now.

You know, I used to lead a bad life. I was into sex with randomers, drugs, alcohol, I had a position of power and used it in corrupt ways. I was not enjoyng life though. I just tried to get cheap thrills and didn't care about the consequences.

Then I had some "divine revelations" for want of a less cheesy phrase, and I am in the process of turning my life around. I have severed contact with my drug-abusing friends, have started university, no longer have sex, and I feel much happier. Now I have this kind of "call to purity" inside me. I'm going vegan to start off with. It's just the **** that I am confused about. I am really suffering some agonies of conscience over this, I just wish I knew what the answer was!

6th

You need to get rid of the idea that sex is a bad thing.

oleras

Kharn wrote:

That's incredibly narrow-minded and very, very un-informed. If you have sex and don't orgasm does that mean you've not had sex? Broaden your definitions, what's masturbation for you is not the same as for everyone else, remember that.

Was i talking about sex ? And how much more informed do you want, i have been masturbating for 25 years. I think i should know the end result should end in orgasm. Why else would someone masturbate, maybe you can enlighten me ? I would hate to think i was narrow minded and very,very un-informed all these years.

Marksie

oleras wrote:

I think i should know the end result should end in orgasm. Why else would someone masturbate, maybe you can enlighten me ?

To connect with oneself, to explore inner thoughts, circulate energy, clear blockages. Move outside of oneself, simply to energise.

There is no end result and are you saying orgasm is ejaculation??? Lets be clear here its not.. if you move toward ejaculation as THE goal then you have missed the point. The energy from orgasm can be moved and circulated, like kharn says, i am relatively new to moving energy myself but it has created some wonderful personal experiences, a connection to myself, to others and a real appreciation of life.

Stormwarrior: tnx for pm, use those resources i gave you.. try the first book and then have a look at the taoist ones they are a good practical guide. (as kharn says, venting energy can be important). i have only now just read this series of posts and understand much better what is going on now.


Thaed has it right i think it is a reconnection issue.
i am going to ask you to look at yourself and examine why you use words like "corrupt" and "purity". There may be nothing dark in your past, but think of an onion: it can be very thick, it is made up of very thin layers, each of itself transparent but forming an impenatrable barrier.
In terms of your inner self, we will class this as walls of ego (being the defense mechanisms we throw up to protect yourself).
If you begin to examine issues then you will be slowly peeling back these walls.

The 8 times a day is a symptom, there is obviously a lot of energy banging around there and nowhere to go. Do you get headaches or feel swollen like you are about to burst?

I am going to make an analogy, your spiritual engine is choked with debris. It may need a thourough stripping back and cleansing.
Thinking outside of a sexual context at the moment, maybe it would be good to visit a reike practitioner, they could give you some idea of what is going on and start dealing with it.

Don't worry about the orgasms or lack thereof. You maybe have to go back to basics and re-connect with your sexual self before you can progress forward.

Again, if you need any information or help just ask and i will do what i can

Shiminay

oleras wrote:

Was i talking about sex ? And how much more informed do you want, i have been masturbating for 25 years. I think i should know the end result should end in orgasm. Why else would someone masturbate, maybe you can enlighten me ? I would hate to think i was narrow minded and very,very un-informed all these years.

You don't see masturbation as being a part of the bigger picture that is sex? Funny that in 25 years or so you never thought of it that way I'm sorry, was just poking fun there, it's not something we need to get stressed out about, and it's not going to help poor StormWarrior with her situation. I'd love to continue the discussion though, do you have access to the Sex and Sexuality board?

StormWarrior

marksuttonie wrote:

The 8 times a day is a symptom, there is obviously a lot of energy banging around there and nowhere to go. Do you get headaches or feel swollen like you are about to burst?

I am going to make an analogy, your spiritual engine is choked with debris. It may need a thourough stripping back and cleansing.

I would do it more often than 8 tims a day if i had more free time. Yes I do get terrible headaches and often feel fit to burst! If masturbation desn't relieve the bursting like sensations I am often driven to EXTREME exercise to try and relieve it. I have given myself shin splints and a ruptured achilles tendon from over-exercise to try and relieve the frustration. What does that mean?

How can I strip and cleanse myself?

StormWarrior

Another thing, although I have excessive sexual energy,I am severely lacking in mental energy. I find it very hard to concentrate and get mentally tired easily.

The phyical urges may be because of this though: I had a blood test which showed I have unusually high levels of testosterone for a girl.

Marksie

StormWarrior wrote:

Another thing, although I have excessive sexual energy,I am severely lacking in mental energy. I find it very hard to concentrate and get mentally tired easily.

The phyical urges may be because of this though: I had a blood test which showed I have unusually high levels of testosterone for a girl.

Well meditation should help with the mental energy as it will help you too focus.
Do you do any meditations at all?

StormWarrior

I have 2 meditation cds that I use, a Doreen Virtue chakra clearing one and a Diana Cooper "Unicorn meditation." So, maybe not any proper meditation, i find it hard to concentrate.

Marksie

StormWarrior wrote:

I have 2 meditation cds that I use, a Doreen Virtue chakra clearing one and a Diana Cooper "Unicorn meditation." So, maybe not any proper meditation, i find it hard to concentrate.

i have sent you a pM

oleras

marksuttonie wrote:

To connect with oneself, to explore inner thoughts, circulate energy, clear blockages. Move outside of oneself, simply to energise.

There is no end result and are you saying orgasm is ejaculation??? Lets be clear here its not.. if you move toward ejaculation as THE goal then you have missed the point. The energy from orgasm can be moved and circulated, like kharn says, i am relatively new to moving energy myself but it has created some wonderful personal experiences, a connection to myself, to others and a real appreciation of life.

Lets be clear here it is , i along with 99.9% of the population practice it for this reason alone.Now if you connect, circulate energy, clear blockages and manage to move outside yourself fair play. if you manage to reach some sort of higher plane of spirituality through your recirculating energy and it makes you happy fair play again. I myself like the vast vast majority of people dont belive that, as far as i am concerned these experiences you are feeling are an orgasm, you might not ejaculate externally, i assume this is what u mean by recirculating your energy, but the end result is still ejaculation. put it this way, i would not go to the cinema and walk out 15 mins before the end, i would not spend hours preparing a meal only to throw in in the bin before i have eaten it, as far as i am concerned orgasm or ejaculation, whatever you decide to call it because they are one and the same is the end result of masturbation. But thats just my openion and the openion of science.

oleras

Kharn wrote:

You don't see masturbation as being a part of the bigger picture that is sex? Funny that in 25 years or so you never thought of it that way I'm sorry, was just poking fun there, it's not something we need to get stressed out about, and it's not going to help poor StormWarrior with her situation. I'd love to continue the discussion though, do you have access to the Sex and Sexuality board?

No access im afraid. cant see why it cant be discussed here though ? Out in the open.....

dr.bollocko

oleras wrote:

Lets be clear here it is , i along with 99.9% of the population practice it for this reason alone.Now if you connect, circulate energy, clear blockages and manage to move outside yourself fair play. if you manage to reach some sort of higher plane of spirituality through your recirculating energy and it makes you happy fair play again. I myself like the vast vast majority of people dont belive that, as far as i am concerned these experiences you are feeling are an orgasm, you might not ejaculate externally, i assume this is what u mean by recirculating your energy, but the end result is still ejaculation. put it this way, i would not go to the cinema and walk out 15 mins before the end, i would not spend hours preparing a meal only to throw in in the bin before i have eaten it, as far as i am concerned orgasm or ejaculation, whatever you decide to call it because they are one and the same is the end result of masturbation. But thats just my openion and the openion of science.

well i have to hop in on your side of this argument, despite not contribbing a lot to this thread. For a lot of people scratching the one eyed trouser snake is pointless unless he spits in your eye.

Marksie

oleras wrote:

i would not spend hours preparing a meal only to throw in in the bin before i have eaten it, as far as i am concerned orgasm or ejaculation, whatever you decide to call it because they are one and the same is the end result of masturbation. But thats just my openion and the openion of science.

No completely wrong: orgasm in the male is followed a few seconds later by ejaculation, one aspect is to separate the two. In that way the orgasmic potential and energy can be increased vastly. At the very least a male can become multiorgasmic like a female.

If in doubt check the book the mutltiorgasmic couple.

Oh and dont try the science card, you never know when someone who is a scientist will ask you to confirm that

In fact: could you confirm that... i am a scientist

Shiminay

[edit] HAH, Mark beat me to it [/edit]

This is the Spirituallity forum and so a discussion on the merrits of Masturbation (in itself) is off topic and against the rules of the board, but if the mods are happy to let us continue, I'll continue. I'm not trying to take the discussion away from everyone's eyes, it's just that's why we have the S&S board, so these more adult things can be discussed without the risk of the wrong eyes seeing them. I'm also not trying to say you're doing something wrong, but your *facts* are wrong.

Firstly and most important - ejaculation is not the same as an orgasm. For most men, orgasm happens first, followed almost instantly by ejaculation and then the orgasm would wind down. With training (and a bitta luck) you can control yourself and not ejaculate but still experience the orgasm. This is how men can have multiple orgasms. If you don't believe this is possible, then you may as well stop reading because I have most definitely experienced multiple orgasms and I can't even begin to tell you how amazing it is. Your talk of leaving the cinema early etc isn't relevant as you're not drawing or able to draw the distinction between orgasm and ejaculation. Similarly with the good doctor's assertations that there's no point playing with the snake unless he spits up at ya. Masturbating (or indeed any kind of sexual activity) need not end in ejaculation for men to have experienced orgasm. If this isnt true for you and you might want to look into it, there's a whole lotta internet out there with info on it

Energy - I appreciate the esoteric nature of the energy manipulation side of things is difficult to grasp, but I can assure you I believe in it and feel it. I've felt the negative effect of not dealing with the energy raised too, the pain was excruciating and my head wanted to explode. If you don't believe in it fine, but there are people all over the world who do and who are fortunate enough to experience these things. This has been going on a long long time too. What do you think tantric sex is about? How do you think people sustain orgasm for hours on end? It takes work, it's not something you're going to get the first time you try it, but I promise you, when you hit that moment of bliss and suddenly the whole world opens itself to you - there just aren't words to describe it. I wish everyone could experience it.

It's up to you to choose to believe me or not, ultimately if you want to limit yourself and your experience, that's your choice. To me you've only hit the tip of the iceberg (hell I've only hit the tip of it, this is all very, very new territory to me - but I've been doing a lot of reading on it these last few days, so it is fresh in my mind), there's so much more under the waterline if you're interested in doing the work.

I hope that clarifies things, again my apologies to the mods for continuing an off topic conversation and I apologise to StormWarrior for hi-jacking her thread.

JC 2K3

oleras wrote:

Lets be clear here it is , i along with 99.9% of the population practice it for this reason alone.Now if you connect, circulate energy, clear blockages and manage to move outside yourself fair play. if you manage to reach some sort of higher plane of spirituality through your recirculating energy and it makes you happy fair play again. I myself like the vast vast majority of people dont belive that, as far as i am concerned these experiences you are feeling are an orgasm, you might not ejaculate externally, i assume this is what u mean by recirculating your energy, but the end result is still ejaculation. put it this way, i would not go to the cinema and walk out 15 mins before the end, i would not spend hours preparing a meal only to throw in in the bin before i have eaten it, as far as i am concerned orgasm or ejaculation, whatever you decide to call it because they are one and the same is the end result of masturbation. But thats just my openion and the openion of science.

Science has never reseached orgasms properly in fairness and it is fairly widely accepted that orgasm and ejaculation are two seperate things.

I personally don't believe in all this recirculating energy spirituality bullshít, but I do know "meditation" while masturbating enhances the experience.

StormWarrior

I have thought about it, and I have decided that I am going to continue masturbating, for the time being at least. I am going to try a more fulfilling way of doing it, like some people here have suggested. If that still doesn't help me physically or spiritually, then I may try and quit.

Shiminay

Don't think too much about it, you can't orgasm when all tense and stressed. Light a couple of candles (some nice smelly ones if you've got 'em) and let yourself be relaxed. Tray a nice soothing bath as previously suggested. Remember, you're not masturbating to relieve the aching need, you're enjoying the sensuality of your own body and what it has to offer to you and you shouldn't be afraid to explore it.

Good luck with things.

oleras

marksuttonie wrote:

No completely wrong: orgasm in the male is followed a few seconds later by ejaculation, one aspect is to separate the two. In that way the orgasmic potential and energy can be increased vastly. At the very least a male can become multiorgasmic like a female.

If in doubt check the book the mutltiorgasmic couple.

Oh and dont try the science card, you never know when someone who is a scientist will ask you to confirm that

In fact: could you confirm that... i am a scientist

confirm it ? ill do my best.....with biology. Why do we orgasm and what is an orgasm ? an increase in heart rate, a surge in blood pressure, involuntary muscle contractions in the genitals and the natural progression is ejaculation.......when you practice being mulit orgasmic you interfere with the natural cycle of things, you have thought yourself to control the pubococcygeal muscle. Nothing wrong with that at all, but you have made a concious effort to not ejaculate, this goes against the sole purpose of the orgasm, for muscles to contract and ejaculate, in a biological sense. All animals, us included orgasm for 1 reason and 1 reason only, to ejaculate. thats why i put them in the same boat, thats the way we are made,anything else that happens we have interupted it. but as i said, nothing wrong with that.....

Scofflaw

StormWarrior wrote:

I have thought about it, and I have decided that I am going to continue masturbating, for the time being at least. I am going to try a more fulfilling way of doing it, like some people here have suggested. If that still doesn't help me physically or spiritually, then I may try and quit.

Given my earlier post was aimed at someone (a) younger, and (b) male, much of it doesn't apply!

However, I would repeat the comment that masturbation is still a habit, and breakable like all habits. I know quite a few men who have the same symptoms as you if they don't have sex for a while - but I've also been with them when they couldn't, and it certainly didn't kill them.

Do you suffer a lot from stress, as a matter of interest? Heavy stress always made me far more prone to masturbation, drugs, drink, smoking, etc etc. A couple of times in my life stress and stress relief of that kind has built up to the point where I felt like a ball of barbed wire that someone had rolled down a hillside - a tangle, full of unconnected bits and bobs. Generally, I have changed country at that point, but frankly that's just part of running away from things - as is the masturbation etc...

The other thing to consider (and I hope you won't take offence) is that both elevated testosterone and hypersexuality may be related to bipolar disorder.

The only other thing is that when you are looking at cleansing rituals I wold probably suggest initially a ritual with an ascetic physical component, but other people will be better able to advise.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Marksie

oleras wrote:

All animals, us included orgasm for 1 reason and 1 reason only, to ejaculate.

We are not animals, we are self aware. Animals use sex to fulfill a biological imperative, if that is how you view sex and orgasm, then that is perfectly fine... there is nothing wrong with that..if all you do is see it as a rush to ejaculate.

However, this is the spirituality forum and what we are or were attempting to discuss is the use of the sexual energy to enable you meditate and visualise.

While PC control is part of it you can also extend "contractile phase" orgasms. Your initial assertation that orgasm and ejaculation are one and the same thing is the contention, if it was there would be no way it could be separated.
The male ejaculation is outward, this leads to a depletion of energy, and we feel tired or drained after and we enter the refractory phase.

Yes, the concept of energy circulation is hard to grasp, but like Kharn i have empirically felt it and therefore know it works. Further, the energy can be felt long before orgasm and therefore can be utilised. Drawn up into the higher energy centres using visualisation and unite with Spirit as well as the person you are with.
When the lovemaking is NOT goal directed there is a subtle build up of energy throughout the body. A couple (or indeed single) matching and utilising each others energies become a grater spiritual/energetic whole.
OK it is fine to not believe it, but have you ever felt the "electricity" of a kiss, or the feeling of "horniness" when you are with someone..that is the energy.

JC 2K3

marksuttonie wrote:

Yes, the concept of energy circulation is hard to grasp, but like Kharn i have empirically felt it and therefore know it works. Further, the energy can be felt long before orgasm and therefore can be utilised. Drawn up into the higher energy centres using visualisation and unite with Spirit as well as the person you are with.
When the lovemaking is NOT goal directed there is a subtle build up of energy throughout the body. A couple (or indeed single) matching and utilising each others energies become a grater spiritual/energetic whole.
OK it is fine to not believe it, but have you ever felt the "electricity" of a kiss, or the feeling of "horniness" when you are with someone..that is the energy.

See this is what I find hard to grasp about spirituality. I've done all that breathing/relaxing while masturbating and slowly approaching orgasm rather than jerking off as fast as I can, therefore I ahve too "empirically felt it". And I have felt the "electricity" of a kiss and "horniness". However, how has this got to do with anything more than chemical changes in the brain? What's the deal with this seemingly fabricated(to me) "energy" and "spirits" stuff?

StormWarrior

Scofflaw wrote:

However, I would repeat the comment that masturbation is still a habit, and breakable like all habits.
Do you suffer a lot from stress, as a matter of interest? Heavy stress always made me far more prone to masturbation, drugs, drink, smoking, etc etc.
The other thing to consider (and I hope you won't take offence) is that both elevated testosterone and hypersexuality may be related to bipolar disorder.

The only other thing is that when you are looking at cleansing rituals I wold probably suggest initially a ritual with an ascetic physical component, but other people will be better able to advise.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Do you think the habit needs to be broken? I really want to prefer the idea that masturbation can be an expression of spirituality, I'm still trying to resolve that one though.

I'm pretty stress-free, I don't drink, smoke or take drugs nowadays, and I'm pretty sure I'm not manic depressive!

What do you mean by an ascetic physical component?

oleras

marksuttonie wrote:

We are not animals, we are self aware. .......................................

but have you ever felt the "electricity" of a kiss, or the feeling of "horniness" when you are with someone..that is the energy.

We are animals, allbeit self aware we can manipulate the time between orgasm and ejaculation.

And the fact that this is a spitituality forum, may i not debate what i call instinct/hormones/endorphines....our biological make up against what you refer to as achieving a higher plane ?

Scofflaw

StormWarrior wrote:

Do you think the habit needs to be broken? I really want to prefer the idea that masturbation can be an expression of spirituality, I'm still trying to resolve that one though.

I'm pretty stress-free, I don't drink, smoke or take drugs nowadays, and I'm pretty sure I'm not manic depressive!

What do you mean by an ascetic physical component?

This makes me feel slightly like the skeleton at the feast...still, you're asking, so....

Sexuality (and masturbation) is generally regarded as something that can lead to spiritual progress if the person transcends the physicality of sexuality. That is, they need to be someone on whom sex, and sexuality, has almost no grip whatsoever. I don't think that's the case for you.

In many senses, what one does with sexual energy is the exact opposite of what you're doing - let it build up, and become a 'force', or 'energy'. You then channel that towards whatever spiritual goal you are aiming for. To some extent you'll know this is working because it releases the libido, so that it is no longer building up.

There are things you can do with uncontrolled sexuality, but they would be, I think, rather more 'left-hand' paths (so to speak).

'Ascetic physical component' - something rather solidly physically uncomfortable - freezing cold baths, that kind of thing - however Victorian that might make me sound! The reasoning being that something like that is more likely to put you mentally in the right state than a gentler approach. However, it's just my opinion (as someone who had rather a high libido, and was unquestionably an excessive masturbator in my teens and twenties).

As I said, though, it would be better if you got advice on ritual or spiritual paths from those on this board who are more active in those areas.

Otherwise - glad to hear it about the stress. However, if there's no medical reason (in the widest sense) for repetitve masturbation, then it really does begin to sound like a habit - acquired early, and never lost. Have you ever given it up, and if so, for how long? Also, the 'acquired early'...have you changed the way you masturbate, or are you still doing it the same way you always did?

Orgasms from sex I discount - it's not at all unusual for a woman not to have had any even in her twenties (on a related note, if you do meet someone who does give you orgasms, do not assume from it that they are the right person - my sister did that, and the results were unfortunate).

cordially,
Scofflaw

oleras

marksuttonie wrote:

Yes, the concept of energy circulation is hard to grasp, but like Kharn i have empirically felt it and therefore know it works. Further, the energy can be felt long before orgasm and therefore can be utilised. Drawn up into the higher energy centres using visualisation and unite with Spirit as well as the person you are with.
.

would you agree that this heightened energy is biological ? As one orgasms and ejaculates endorphins are released in our brain, if one was to hold back on the ejaculate and trick the brain so to speak and then hold back again and again and again, and in doing so has multiple orgasms, hereto floods ones brain, with copiuos amounts of hormones that bind to opiate receptors of the brain.

oh, and if a mod feels this has gone way off topic, although the OP has come to conclusion on her original question please split it off for a debate on spirituality versus science.

Nevyn

oleras wrote:

We are animals, allbeit self aware we can manipulate the time between orgasm and ejaculation.

And the fact that this is a spitituality forum, may i not debate what i call instinct/hormones/endorphines....our biological make up against what you refer to as achieving a higher plane ?

Yes you can but get a new thread to do it in.

Please stop the thread jacking people.