Ireland v France (Match Thread)

killapool

I do not post very often but I need to get this out of my system.

Why did(does) this hurt so bloddy much was it because of Croker or the way it was lost. Its only a game but christ it feels really terrible. We've all seen Ireland screw up before....

I guess we now have a world class team and with that comes the expectation...

I had some English mates (live in London) coming around for their game but I've told them not to come. I'd loose a few friends if this happened again....

Hermy

Diamondmaker wrote:

Anyone who is suggestibng that we should have kicked for the line s has not got a clue. Yes in hind sight it is likley that we would have been able to kill the clock in the corner but this is ifs and buts. Rugby like any sport is a % game and in this situation takking the 3 points offers better odds of retaining a lead.

To defend a 4 point lead with 2 minutes to go is far far more attaiable than to defend a 1 pointer. A drop goal is practically impossible to defend against, especially if the foprwards are good enough ( which they were ) to set up good position for the OH in the pocket.

Once in the pocket and there is a clean pass, its all down to the OHs bottle and no defence will rush up fast enough on a well placed OH.

A 4 poit difference is very easy ( relative ) to defend. All you haved to do is make tackles, you are in control of you own destiny when you just have to make all your tackles for 2 minutes.

O'Gara kicked for touch against Leicester in Thomond in January when there was an easy (I think) three pointer and the lead on offer.
Against France in Croker he took the three points which ultimately led to Ireland having to defend in their own 22, when a kick to touch would have meant a desperate French side doing the defending at the opposite end of the pitch. Surely with only 3 minutes remaining that field position was much more valuable, particularly if drop goals were a concern.
And what about kicking for touch with the intent of scoring a try and putting the game out of reach before the final whistle had even sounded. That sort of intent would negate all that stuff about bad refereeing or team mentality or any of the other excuses put forward to explain the result.

daveirl

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nacho libre

Hermy wrote:

O'Gara kicked for touch against Leicester in Thomond in January when there was an easy (I think) three pointer and the lead on offer.
Against France in Croker he took the three points which ultimately led to Ireland having to defend in their own 22, when a kick to touch would have meant a desperate French side doing the defending at the opposite end of the pitch. Surely with only 3 minutes remaining that field position was much more valuable, particularly if drop goals were a concern.
And what about kicking for touch with the intent of scoring a try and putting the game out of reach before the final whistle had even sounded. That sort of intent would negate all that stuff about bad refereeing or team mentality or any of the other excuses put forward to explain the result.

O'Gara would been crucified had he not gone for the points and subsequently France gained a good field position which resulted in a French score. Ireland tryed their best to score a try before this and were not able to against the resolute French defense. So France could easily have come away with a good field position had Ireland taken your option and scored thereafter through a penalty or drop-goal. Then we would have people complaining why didn't O'Gara kick the points on offer!

LFC5Times

nacho libre wrote:

France would not have missed three tackles in the dying seconds to lose a game. Winners make the most of their periods of possession. It really is to do with mentality. France had the belief they could score. As Brian Moore said Ireland choked it. Ireland should have secured possession from the restart.

:LMAO

Its nothing to do with mentality,if we had a losing mentality we wouldnt have beaten the teams we have over the last few years.Or had you watched rugby when we won those matches ?
Look at the size of our country compared to others and we overachieve.

And if you listen to Brian Moore it must be right - he is the biggest idiot of a commentator on TV in any sport at the monet and is so bias towards England its ridiculous and anti - Irish provincial teams.
Trust me dont ever listen to him he talks through his rear.

How do you know France wouldnt have missed those tackles at the end ? You dont know and you never will - silly point.

So i suppose the French winger wouldnt have missed the tackle Geordan Murphy did early in the game and he has a losing mentality ???

Just because they kicked off doesnt automatically mean we win the kick off - rugby doesnt work like that,it was good drop off.

The reasons we lost are we gave away soft tries simple as that and thats not to a losing mentality,its due to poor tackling.

I get the impression you either lost money on the game or are a bitter GAA head who doesnt want to see "foreign sports" in Croker and are having a go at the Irish rugby team.

jeawan

LFC5Times wrote:

:LMAO

Its nothing to do with mentality,if we had a losing mentality we wouldnt have beaten the teams we have over the last few years.Or had you watched rugby when we won those matches ?
Look at the size of our country compared to others and we overachieve.

And if you listen to Brian Moore it must be right - he is the biggest idiot of a commentator on TV in any sport at the monet and is so bias towards England its ridiculous and anti - Irish provincial teams.
Trust me dont ever listen to him he talks through his rear.

How do you know France wouldnt have missed those tackles at the end ? You dont know and you never will - silly point.

So i suppose the French winger wouldnt have missed the tackle Geordan Murphy did early in the game and he has a losing mentality ???

Just because they kicked off doesnt automatically mean we win the kick off - rugby doesnt work like that,it was good drop off.

The reasons we lost are we gave away soft tries simple as that and thats not to a losing mentality,its due to poor tackling.

I get the impression you either lost money on the game or are a bitter GAA head who doesnt want to see "foreign sports" in Croker and are having a go at the Irish rugby team.

agree there , ireland didn't go out to win , they missed tackles and missed passes , in short they played **** , are back line was so bad i've never seen them play that bad in a long time, half the time the line wasn't ever organized and france went out to win with a tactic and it worked , we just showed up , yes the game was intresting when we woke up a bit , but they still didnt play like the team we saw back in October , if they play like that against england we be hammered , and England played crap against Italy

daveirl

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nacho libre

LFC5Times wrote:

:LMAO

Its nothing to do with mentality,if we had a losing mentality we wouldnt have beaten the teams we have over the last few years.Or had you watched rugby when we won those matches ?
Look at the size of our country compared to others and we overachieve.

And if you listen to Brian Moore it must be right - he is the biggest idiot of a commentator on TV in any sport at the monet and is so bias towards England its ridiculous and anti - Irish provincial teams.
Trust me dont ever listen to him he talks through his rear.

How do you know France wouldnt have missed those tackles at the end ? You dont know and you never will - silly point.

So i suppose the French winger wouldnt have missed the tackle Geordan Murphy did early in the game and he has a losing mentality ???

Just because they kicked off doesnt automatically mean we win the kick off - rugby doesnt work like that,it was good drop off.

The reasons we lost are we gave away soft tries simple as that and thats not to a losing mentality,its due to poor tackling.

I get the impression you either lost money on the game or are a bitter GAA head who doesnt want to see "foreign sports" in Croker and are having a go at the Irish rugby team.

I'll accept my analysis might be flawed but the personal attack is uncalled for.

Your impression of me is completely wrong. I'm not a bigot or into tribalism.
I was delighted to see the team playing in Croke Park. I didn't lose money either as i knew deep down France would win. I am as disappointed as you are Ireland lost.
I agree with you about Brian Moore he is biased and a caustic individual. However, regardless of his reasons for saying it, i think he was right about Ireland choking it. This has everything to do with mentality in my opinion. If they had the right mentality they would not have got off to such a slow start. The slow starts indicates to me they were over-awed by the occasion. You are right I can't know if France would not have missed tackles but there was a familiar pattern to that game as there are to others games; the top teams play for 80 minutes and close out the game. Missing tackles is a sign of tireness and if overcoming tireness is in the mind then that's down to mentality. Champions get that little bit of extra effort out of themselves. That's what winners do. Lance Armstrong did it to win the Tour de France seven times.

Heisenberg.

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madds

In my opinion the following factors were the main contributing factors to Ireland putting in a bad performance yesterday:

1. Opening 10 mins
We lost our first lineout and first scrum. Never a good start. Then we conceded that try.

2. The Horgan experiment
Shaggy does not possess the required hand speed to play first centre in the international game. I lost count of the number of times the ball got held up at inside centre when we had an attacking opportunity. Add to this the fact that the French defense were up very quickly that Shaggy started resorting to throwing skip passes, two of which were knocked on/intercepted. We would have been better off with Darcy at 12, and Murphy at 13 when in possession.

3. French played the offside line perfectly
Their midfield defence was very strong and a different referee may have not let them get away with as much as they did yesterday.

4. O'Gara's kicks for touch
Compared to the French kicks for touch, very poor.

5. Loss of O'Driscoll
Can't be underestimated. Shows how little quality cover we have when one of Darcy or BOD get injured.

6. Restarts
If I remember correctly, every single one of them went straight up the middle of the pitch. Works to your advantage if you can reclaim possession but if not, you leave yourself open to attack. Our restarts were poor from the off yesterday yet we still persisted in continuing with this tactic (not angling our kicks) when it was evident that the French were winning the vast majority of these.

Even if the French had not scored that last gasp try I would have the same opinion. I still think that if we get BOD back for the England game, we will give a better account of ourselves and win. The team needs to rediscover their confidence though.

Sundy

Hermy wrote:

O'Gara kicked for touch against Leicester in Thomond in January when there was an easy (I think) three pointer and the lead on offer.
Against France in Croker he took the three points which ultimately led to Ireland having to defend in their own 22, when a kick to touch would have meant a desperate French side doing the defending at the opposite end of the pitch. Surely with only 3 minutes remaining that field position was much more valuable, particularly if drop goals were a concern.
And what about kicking for touch with the intent of scoring a try and putting the game out of reach before the final whistle had even sounded. That sort of intent would negate all that stuff about bad refereeing or team mentality or any of the other excuses put forward to explain the result.

In fairness Hermy only somebody who does not know very much about rugby would suggest the above. 3 minutes is a long time in rugby and going for the corner would have been a foolish gamble. Plus the irish forwards were exhausted from that maul, to expect a continued domination of the french would ahve been alot to ask when there was 3 points on offer. Taking the points was the right thing to do, it put ireland out of drop goal range.

daveirl

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LuckyLloyd

daveirl wrote:

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Not since it became the six nations.

Goodluck2me

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Not since it became the six nations.

lol

KELTICKNIGHTT

WAS big shock when they scored,but expected them to throw everything at ireland
we have done the same
stringer and odriscoll where loss,
the slow start only put ireland under big pressure
have to pick up and do better againist england

pickarooney

Not sure if anyone has admitted it yet, but it was a lovely try by Clerc

Orchard Rebel

Agreed. Wasn't unlike the try O'Driscoll scored against France at Lansdowne in 2005.

Laslo

It's been Ireland's problem for decades folks. Even when they're at the top of their game in terms of available talent, they can't play 80 solid minutes of rugby. In nearly every match, they have an out-of-character 20 or 30 minutes of play and throw the big games away as a result.

On top form, Ireland are capable of beating any team in the world (the AB's at a push!) but they'll always be confined to mediocrity due to their lack of confidence.

zuutroy

All I have to add is this is the one year where we have a consolation for such a heart-breaking loss. We get to have a second bite of the cherry in France, in the big one. If they do France then and go a long way in the WC, this match will be a post script to 2007 in Irish Rugby

Hermy

Sundy wrote:

In fairness Hermy only somebody who does not know very much about rugby would suggest the above. 3 minutes is a long time in rugby and going for the corner would have been a foolish gamble. Plus the irish forwards were exhausted from that maul, to expect a continued domination of the french would ahve been alot to ask when there was 3 points on offer. Taking the points was the right thing to do, it put ireland out of drop goal range.

I certainly seem to be on my own on this one. Of course the lads were exhausted after the maul, and anything could have, and ultimately did happen in those remaining three minutes. It's just a What if that's been bugging me since O'Gara decided to kick for goal. Seems I still have a lot to learn about this great game.

LuckyLloyd

goodluck2me wrote:

lol

Joe, your like a charisma leech. Following me from forum to forum, sucking me dry.

Hippo

Laslo wrote:

It's been Ireland's problem for decades folks. Even when they're at the top of their game in terms of available talent, they can't play 80 solid minutes of rugby. In nearly every match, they have an out-of-character 20 or 30 minutes of play and throw the big games away as a result.

On top form, Ireland are capable of beating any team in the world (the AB's at a push!) but they'll always be confined to mediocrity due to their lack of confidence.

This has been true, but also we're crippled by having a small pool of players. BOD's absence would have been tough for any team but we haven't the depth to cope with that the way France always can. Had he played on Sunday I'm sure we'd have won.

shrapnel222

Another thing that comes to mind, i was at the game on saturday, and i was pretty surprised at the amount of booing and noise going on when the french were kicking penalties, and it got louder and louder as the game went on. This is something that never happened at lansdowne road, so is this any indication of things to come in Croke park? I would even imagine the booing for the England game is going to be worse still!!!

daveirl

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shrapnel222

daveirl wrote:

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i agree about rugby in France being noisy, but you're saying that we were booing our own kicker so that he would feel at home? a bit far fetched maybe?:D

daveirl

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komodosp

Why did O'Gara kick for goal?

In fairness, the mistake wasn't kicking for goal, the mistake was the lack of concentration after the restart.

komodosp

To all the people saying the ref should have allowed advantage, I'll have to watch it again but is it possible that Murphy (was it?) only made the break because the French stopped playing after the whistle was blown?

And to those saying "We weren't complaining against Wales" the difference I think is that in this case we were denied actual scores but against Wales, they still got the scores, OK DOC should have been binned but Wales mightn't have necessarily turned the advantage into points, but in this case we clearly would have!

Chucky the tree

huh? So when the welsh player was tackled without the ball about a few metres from the line he would of done what excactly? Kicked it over the deadball line for the laugh?

komodosp

Yeah I'm sure he would have, those Welsh are such a polite bunch... But that was no foul, he fell over laughing at your hilarious quip...