Ireland v France (Match Thread)

christophicus

i think it was a combination of France suddenly going up a gear out of nowhere after the lineout, and Ireland going down a gear.

PhoenixRising

I'm sick as a dog after that. Ireland's poor defence is the reason we lost that game. How many missed tackles did we see today? Not good enough at this level. Murphy should be taken out and shot. Ireland weren't half as physical as we needed to be. We were bullied by the French all day. England will beat us in two weeks time unless there is drastic improvement in this area.

Thought O'Connell had another poor display today and showed no great leadership.

Oh well....bring on the English I suppose..

nacho libre

Well there is always the what if factor but Horgan was clealy impeded running for that loose ball. still, what's goes around comes around we have got fortunate refeering decisions in the past.

I'm gutted like everyone else but if you gave me the option of loosing this game or losing in the world cup to France. I would choose the former. To beat France at home in the RWC would really hurt them.

thirdmantackle

the French are cheese eating surrendering monkees

Q: how many gears in a French Tank?
A: 1 for going forward and 4 in reverse...

we just handed the game to them by not regathering the drop off or defending properly

christophicus

it was our defending and catching/overall handeling of the ball that really let us down.

nacho libre

I'd just like to salute Wallace i thought he played brilliantly today as did Hickie.

Dave!

Gutted.

Steyr

christophicus wrote:

it was our defending and catching/overall handeling of the ball that really let us down.

Id agree with the above but also Croker is known as a very slippy pitch and that was seen today. Im Gutted.:(

Hermy

Hydroquinone wrote:

I was sure Ireland had it when Ronan made his kick. Just goes to show you, it's never over till it's over. Feck.

Why did O'Gara kick for goal?
Surely by kicking for touch, even without scoring a match winning try, there was still a one point lead, only now with much less of those dying minutes on the clock?
Was this another bad decision by O'Connell, not unlike the decision not to kick for goal and take the lead against Leicester in Thomond in January?
I'm no expert on rugby, just love watching the sport, but perhaps someone can tell me if I have a valid point or not.

zuutroy

Hermy wrote:

Why did O'Gara kick for goal?
Surely by kicking for touch, even without scoring a match winning try, there was still a one point lead, only now with much less of those dying minutes on the clock?
Was this another bad decision by O'Connell, not unlike the decision not to kick for goal and take the lead against Leicester in Thomond in January?
I'm no expert on rugby, just love watching the sport, but perhaps someone can tell me if I have a valid point or not.

Have to say that was my first idea when they got the penalty, but I just assumed they had better rugby brains and new what they were at. I suppose they wanted to take the drop goal or penalty out of it.

crybaby

what can you say really, our grandslam hopes rested on one kick off which we just didnt deal with as we should have, i cant really blame them though they gave absolutley everything in that 2nd half. absolutley gutted

BlitzKrieg

Why did O'Gara kick for goal?
Surely by kicking for touch, even without scoring a match winning try, there was still a one point lead, only now with much less of those dying minutes on the clock?
Was this another bad decision by O'Connell, not unlike the decision not to kick for goal and take the lead against Leicester in Thomond in January?
I'm no expert on rugby, just love watching the sport, but perhaps someone can tell me if I have a valid point or not.

Its probably because of the scare we all got just minutes earlier when the french tried for a drop kick goal and it hit the bar...The irish team were probably more confident in holding back a try then holding back another drop kick or penalty.

CJhaughey

Before anyone starts going on about bad refereeing decisions, just remember S.Horgan's non-try vs Eng last year and Italy being robbed also.
The dice falls evenly and no matter if this was a historic occasion or not the dice just didn't fall right this time.
It is also my belief that Mr E. O'Sullivan's tactics were wrong and shown to be wrong.

spanner

This talk that Ireland are the best team in the northern
Hemisphere is wrong, France have clearly beaten Ireland in the
Last 4 occasions before this game so I dont think its a Losing attitude to say ireland did well to hold in there.

For the great backline it is it didnt really preform, their were many handling errors, mis tackles etc. We really missed BOD today because he really thrives on big games and is well used to breaking the french line. Some simple thing went wrong, the restarts were absolutely Disastrous and really was the fault of our last try, we didnt keep an eye on the quick line outs, on the positive the pack were great againist the breakdown specialist the held their own in the set pieces and did well in the rucks and malls.

spanner

I know we had many depressing days in Irish rugby but I dont remember one as bad as this

Orchard Rebel

Trojan wrote:

We ultimately lost the game because we conceded a score immediately after scoring ourselves - any sports fan in the world will tell you that's when you need to be at your most vigilant, and we weren't.

I agree. We lost 10 of France's 20 points immediately after O'Gara penalties (remember the one in the first half where Leamy inexplicably decided to try and catch the kick off above his head.

In the end Walsh's calls, dodgy or otherwise, were irrelevant. We were in a winning position and needed only to keep our concentration during the last passage of play. Instead, there were three critical failures:

(1) The Kick Off

Despite the fact that both locks, Flannery and Hayes were in the vicinity, no-one made any kind of decent effort to challenge for the ball.

(2) The Missed Tackle

When, having run across the field, Jauzion played a pop pass to Marty, Horgan decided to try and tackle him high and was fended off, while D'Arcy completely missed him. By the time he was brought to the ground, Marty had gained a further 10 metres and was well inside the 22.

(3) Four Get Sold a Dummy

When Bauxis threw the long pass out to Clerc, he took it at a virtual standstill on the edge of the 22. His only support was Thion (directly behind him) and Dominici, being marked by Trimble outside. Facing Clerc (from inside out) were Hayes, Best and Horan. Behind them D'Arcy and Horgan were scrambling into position. Therefore it was effectivey one against five and the position should not have been critical.

When Clerc stepped inside, four of the five (Horan, Best, D'Arcy and Horgan) bought the dummy - despite the fact that there was only one man out wide.

Having shrugged off Hayes (a mismatch for which Hayes wasn't to blame), he easily stepped inside Horgan (who'd criminally overrun his position in my opinion) and finished before Hickie or O'Connell could intervene.

I think Popey called this one right. The defensive system is obsessed with covering the try out wide. It is therefore vulnerable to someone stepping back inside, particularly where the cover is a forward, especially a prop.

Ghost Train

Thought Ireland put up a strong performance, the first twenty minutes I think they gave France too much respect and made too many basic errors. They didn't give France too many chances in the second half and I think they were unlucky in the end to lose out. Referee decisions didn't go Irelands way, but thats just the way it is, if ireland had survived the last few minutes without giving up the try, those decisions wouldn't have mattered. Thought the kicking by O'Gara was good even if he didn't make up as much ground kicking for the line as he normally does. Frustrating to lose in the last minutes though

kevpants

I completely agree about the mentality thing. I grew up in australia and the difference is startling. There's just a confidence and a desire to win instilled in them all. Their cockiness comes from their passion to win.

Look at Ireland, we have some fine athletes and talented footballers at the moment but only a select few (POC and BOD most notably) have the kind of self belief that makes them winners. Keith wood had it and you could see how dissappointed he was with Ireland's approach at half time on the BBC.

I think it really is a crying shame that this group of players will probably never win a grand slam or a world cup due to the mental conditioning born from growing up in a country with more than just a hint of an inferiority complex.

As an example, look at our reaction whenever we beat England. We are streets ahead of them but when we beat them we celebrate like a downtrodden office clerk who finally smacked his boss in the face. We should be of the mentality that we're better than most teams and we should just professionally turn them over and go home. Not the kind of nervous fumbling we've seen from the start of the last two games.

If they want to be legends they better start thinking like legends.

ninebeanrows

Well i think its great that we've come so far to be honest..

We were missing two key players, played a pretty poor first half and yet we were seconds away from beating the second best team in the world.

It was so so gutting though.. But now we can look forward.. Have payback time against Engerland followed by 2 more victories, pick up the triple crown, finish 2nd.

Then head to the world cup and have bitter sweet revenge on the French:D

LFC5Times

I thought Walsh was bad for both sides so dont think its fair to blame him for Ireland loss.

As for the Murphy intercept, he had blown his whistle and in fairness it seemed like the French players stopped,so even if he hadnt blown his whistle reckon the French guy would have jumped on the ball.

The Horan incident - sometimes they are given sometimes they are not i guess,dont think he would have given a penalty try anyway just a penalty,anyway Horan still got the ball just knocked it on.

The scrum and lineout was disrupted quite alot, a fair bit of lineout ball they got their hands too and caused us problems.
There lineout was excellent i thought.

Dempsey uncharacteristically missed a couple of tackles but didnt lead to a try,whereas Murphy did miss a tackle that resulted in a try but in fairness he got better as the game went on.
But think it proves we need to stick with Dempsey at fullback.

Think we realised how important O'Driscoll is - he is the difference between winning and losing games like this. And put any suggestion that Darcy is better than O'Driscoll to bed forever,not that Darcy had a bad game quite the opposite but we all saw how he was missed.

Dont know why we didnt do any grubbers or chips over their rush defence especially in the first half when they where in our face all the time.

When we went in the lead in the game we should have tried to play the game in their half, o'Gara should have played the corners instead of trying to keep possession in our half.

You cant afford to go 13-3 down in a game against someone like France.

Poor tackling for both tries cost us.

At least it wasnt the English we lost to,i think we would all rather beat the English in Croker than the French.

This game will serve as a huge motivator in the World Cup game against the French.

Hippo

Completely gutted. The best chance in my lifetime of a grand slam, lost cos they thought they had it won after the final ROG penalty. Terrific performance in lots of ways, even without BOD, who was horribly missed. Couldn't care less about the triple crown now I'm afraid. :mad:

LFC5Times

Hippo wrote:

Completely gutted. The best chance in my lifetime of a grand slam, lost cos they thought they had it won after the final ROG penalty. Terrific performance in lots of ways, even without BOD, who was horribly missed. Couldn't care less about the triple crown now I'm afraid. :mad:

Yeh think at this stage the Triple Crown is a cop out and its not something to celebrate like it was before.

AbusesToilets

The kicking out of hand by irish players today was terrible.I don't know how many kicks to touch O'Gara had that never made it.Contrast with the French,who were far more confident and successful with their kicking.Jauzion and and Skrela in particular i thought were very good in their open field kicking.
As for the the try,what can you say?The entire team just took their heads out of it.That kick off should have been O'Connell's to claim,take the game by the scruff of the neck like a good forward captain should.
Just gutted,want to go dig a hole and climb into it.Here's to another (likely) second place finish,****ing A :mad:

Chucky the tree

kevpants wrote:

As an example, look at our reaction whenever we beat England. We are streets ahead of them but when we beat them we celebrate like a downtrodden office clerk who finally smacked his boss in the face. We should be of the mentality that we're better than most teams and we should just professionally turn them over and go home. Not the kind of nervous fumbling we've seen from the start of the last two games.

The way we celebrated the triple crown last year was a joke really.

nacho libre

LFC5Times wrote:

I thought Walsh was bad for both sides so dont think its fair to blame him for Ireland loss.

As for the Murphy intercept, he had blown his whistle and in fairness it seemed like the French players stopped,so even if he hadnt blown his whistle reckon the French guy would have jumped on the ball.

The Horan incident - sometimes they are given sometimes they are not i guess,dont think he would have given a penalty try anyway just a penalty,anyway Horan still got the ball just knocked it on.

The scrum and lineout was disrupted quite alot, a fair bit of lineout ball they got their hands too and caused us problems.
There lineout was excellent i thought.

Dempsey uncharacteristically missed a couple of tackles but didnt lead to a try,whereas Murphy did miss a tackle that resulted in a try but in fairness he got better as the game went on.
But think it proves we need to stick with Dempsey at fullback.

Think we realised how important O'Driscoll is - he is the difference between winning and losing games like this. And put any suggestion that Darcy is better than O'Driscoll to bed forever,not that Darcy had a bad game quite the opposite but we all saw how he was missed.

Dont know why we didnt do any grubbers or chips over their rush defence especially in the first half when they where in our face all the time.

When we went in the lead in the game we should have tried to play the game in their half, o'Gara should have played the corners instead of trying to keep possession in our half.

You cant afford to go 13-3 down in a game against someone like France.

Poor tackling for both tries cost us.

At least it wasnt the English we lost to,i think we would all rather beat the English in Croker than the French.

This game will serve as a huge motivator in the World Cup game against the French.

well, we've been here before; beaten by France then been determined to exact revenge only to lose comprehensively again. As i said earlier beating France in the World Cup would hurt them far more than losing in Croke Park.
I'm very sorry for this groups of players there best chance to win a grand slam is gone. I get the feeling there won't be another chance for them.

it's just sickening to analyse this game because it's the old recurring theme of huff and puff where the performace isn't reflected in the outcome. The team dominated much of the second half and failed to translate this into scores. France, like all the top teams in any sport, need one moment and they deliver the death knell to our grand slam hopes. One word:Clinical.

Diamondmaker

After the scotland game, if we have won the previous 2, there will be no triple crown celebration. This was a deeply gut wrenching experience and unlike all the others defeats, that could be chalked down to a building team and experience, this was a throw away! The players will feel this more than anyone else and hurt more than anyone here can even dream.

Im so dissapointed for BOD to have missed a match knowing that he really, really could have been the difference.
For all the bad calls blah blah....we had a better 2nd half than the French and over the 2 halves ended up the better team. We threw away a Grand Slam in 1 bad restart. We won by playing bad last week , we lost by playing one phase too many bad today. It was always said that the French would penalise any sloppy play alot more harshly than the welsh could......

A freak championship victory now, will be nice for the fans, nice for the players but ultimately it will always, at best be the one that got away!
........or at worst, another 3rd place finish in a year we were tipped to win.


Our french jinx has benn conquerd provincially already............

This summer it goes national!!:mad:
Fighting sprirt face!!

K-9

I'm not a rugby expert either more Ga. But was stringer equally missed as much as BOD. Austin Healy pointed this out. Boss did well considering the pressure. It's just the couple of advantages that were had that were wasted. Maybe Stringer would have had a cooler head and opted for the penalty instead. Would been at least a draw. The adventorous stuff is great to watch and please the fans but the opportunities for 3 points were missed.

zokrez

I too feel that he should have kicked for touch and time waste the 3 minutes. Good line out ball to 4 and hold and drive and let out and hold and drive would have done it. Even if O'Gara had missed the kick , a 22 drop out would be less problematic than a deep kick off after the penalty. A poor professional decision imho.

The clock was stopped during the game and once the ball went out after the 80 minutes it would have been over.

Ireland were very poor today and the rugby resembled that of 10 years ago. It was almost as if they forgot how to play. Quite simply they did not deserve to win. I could see England beating us and the France to be honest. Very disappointing. They choked.

Chucky the tree

Zakrze wrote:

I too feel that he should have kicked for touch and time waste the 3 minutes. Good line out ball to 4 and hold and drive and let out and hold and drive would have done it. Even if O'Gara had missed the kick , a 22 drop out would be less problematic than a deep kick off after the penalty. A poor professional decision imho.

The clock was stopped during the game and once the ball went out after the 80 minutes it would have been over.

a poor proffesional decision? No captain in the world would of decided to kick to touch, and no coach would do it either. It was the right decision, hindsight is a great thing though.

If he kicked for touch, lost the line and france went into irelands half and got a penalty or drop goal POC would of been slated, and alot of people would of questioned if he should be vice-captain.

Laslo

Ireland are a joke... or should I say a choke. They'll not win a major tournament for the foreseeable future simply because they don't have the drive, passion or confidence. Ah well, we can all splash out for another Triple Crown DVD in HMV this summer. :rolleyes: