Rural Drink Driving

fatboypee

I've read the last 3 pages of posts, apologies if these points have been raised before. But...

Aren't we losing a bit of focus on this issue really ? Aren't there 2 issues here ?

1. Access to amenities by people living in rural or remote areas regardless of purpose.

2. Our obsession with the "Odd Pint" as the sole means of recreation.

To me (and yes, I do have the "Odd Pint" and yes, I do live reasonably rural), it's like saying to a user of a Class-A drug who cannot get his fix, Hey mate, want a lift ??

This does not detract from the first point as, in fact the first point really is the most important one, rural communities are not served when it comes to public transport, amenities or social gathering space.

But focusing on giving "Country people" the right to drink seems bizzarre. Rather than making it easier to get the people to the drink, why are we not more focussed on why people so obsessed by getting to the drink in the first place and address the cultural immaturity of this issue ?

FBP.

Wishbone Ash

craichoe wrote:

if you can't socialise you get lonely. If you get lonely you get depressed

Many people suffer from 'clinical' depression which is not caused by and has no connection with social factors.

quote wrote:

If you get depressed theres a good chance that you'll take a rope, walk out to a tree and hang yourself off it.

1 in 5 people in Ireland suffer from depression. Are you seriously suggesting that there is a good chance that they are going to hang themselves? Many of the people who hanged themselves in rural Ireland did it after a night out with their friends.

craichoe

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Many people suffer from 'clinical' depression which is not caused by and has no connection with social factors.



1 in 5 people in Ireland suffer from depression. Are you seriously suggesting that there is a good chance that they are going to hang themselves? Many of the people who hanged themselves in rural Ireland did it after a night out with their friends.

Depression is an Illness, like any illness you can be prone to it or it can be caused. If you are like me and have seen people that suffer from depression you'll know this is the case. Completely off topic but more than half the people i know that have been diagnosed with clinical depression have been harmed more than helped by psychiatry. Checkout

http://www.antipsychiatry.org
And more specifically
http://www.antipsychiatry.org/br-afb.htm


What i am suggesting is that drinking is part of the social culture, its not about the alcohol its about the social aspect that its tied into. This is the way things were in the previous generation, who are we to tell them what they can and cannot do, seriously its turning into a total nanny state, we have a really bad attitude towards the way of life of people in the country and were completely destroying Irish culture, Ireland is turning into the U.S.A.

So bottom line, should we say

A. No .. you can't have a drink anymore, have a fanta or a can of coke instead (because really thats what were saying here)

or

B. OK.. Look, you can't drink and drive anymore, your might kill someone or yourself, how about we try and subsidise transportation for you to get home safely.

or

C. Sell your farm and your way of life you daft country b*llocks, why are you living in the country anyway, why don't you move into the city and live in a small apartment on a bus route.

kbannon - indeed

Seth Brundle

I would re-phrase 'B' to
OK.. Look, you can't drink and drive anymore, as it kills people and we can't let you do that!

gyppo

craichoe wrote:

C. Sell your farm and your way of life you daft country b*llocks, why are you living in the country anyway, why don't you move into the city and live in a small apartment on a bus route.

Thats the way its looking. The present government has been doing its best to turn this into reality.

Wishbone Ash

craichoe wrote:

Checkout
http://www.antipsychiatry.org
And more specifically
http://www.antipsychiatry.org/br-afb.htm

A site which is called "antipsychiatry" is hardly going to give a balanced view of psychiatry. I'm sure if there was a a site called "antihomoeopathy" is unlikely to give a balanced view of the merits of homoeopathy.

Wishbone Ash

gyppo wrote:

Thats the way its looking. The present government has been doing its best to turn this into reality.

A bit odd considering that people in rural Ireland are much more likely to vote Fianna Fail.

gyppo

Wishbone Ash wrote:

A bit odd considering that people in rural Ireland are much more likely to vote Fianna Fail.

Id change the 'are' to 'were', tbh. Theres a lot of very disgruntled rural dwellers out there. Think planning permissions, or lack thereof, and you'll see where I'm coming from.

craichoe

Wishbone Ash wrote:

A site which is called "antipsychiatry" is hardly going to give a balanced view of psychiatry. I'm sure if there was a a site called "antihomoeopathy" is unlikely to give a balanced view of the merits of homoeopathy.

Well, it is going to be biased toward anti psychiatry but if they make no financial gain from it then what reason would they have to make it up ? I mean the drug companies such as Eli Lilly, Pfizer, Smithcline-Beecham and Bayer AG make billions of euro per year selling these drugs, would you not say that they might also have a slight bias ?

apologies for the off topic comment

Wishbone Ash

craichoe wrote:

Well, it is going to be biased toward anti psychiatry but if they make no financial gain from it then what reason would they have to make it up ? I mean the drug companies such as Eli Lilly, Pfizer, Smithcline-Beecham and Bayer AG make billions of euro per year selling these drugs, would you not say that they might also have a slight bias ?

apologies for the off topic comment

Are you suggesting that people suffering from depression should be allowed to drink and drive and that it will be of more benefit than appropriate medication?

Many people in urban areas live close to their pub, workplace, public transport etc. and have an above average standard of living and quality of life but that does not prevent them from suffering from depression.

craichoe

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Are you suggesting that people suffering from depression should be allowed to drink and drive and that it will be of more benefit than appropriate medication?

Many people in urban areas live close to their pub, workplace, public transport etc. and have an above average standard of living and quality of life but that does not prevent them from suffering from depression.

Eh... no ... Did you read my post .. I said it was off topic and unrelated, it was in response to an individuals comment on Depression.

Wishbone Ash

craichoe wrote:

Eh... no ... Did you read my post .. I said it was off topic and unrelated, it was in response to an individuals comment on Depression.

craichoe wrote:

if you can't socialise you get lonely. If you get lonely you get depressed. If you get depressed theres a good chance that you'll take a rope, walk out to a tree and hang yourself off it

Apologies if I've picked you up incorrectly but I thought you were suggesting that people in rural Ireland should be able to drink and drive without the inconvienience of RBTs as it was disrupting rural life and making it difficult for people with depression.

maidhc

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Are you suggesting that people suffering from depression should be allowed to drink and drive and that it will be of more benefit than appropriate medication?

"Loneliness", or even "boredom" can stand on their own two feet as valid issues without clinical depression being drawn into the equation!

The planners have a lot to answer for though for allowing one off developments left right and center in the countryside. At least if people were living in villages some soft of solutions may be workable.

Guy:Incognito

craichoe wrote:

Eh .. Excuse me .. where are you living. Ireland is a society that has drinking as part of its culture. We are the second highest consumers of beer per head in the world, next to the Czech Republic. It's because theres nothing else to do, if you can't socialise you get lonely. If you get lonely you get depressed. If you get depressed theres a good chance that you'll take a rope, walk out to a tree and hang yourself off it. An alcoholic is someone thats Dependant on Alcohol, this is about the people being able to socialise and alcohol being apart of that.

So because it is Ireland people should be allowed drink and drive?


A friend of my mothers owns a hotel/pub in a small village in Germany. I spent a few summers workign behind the bar there. From what I could see, apart from being in Germany it was much like any small town in Ireland, complete with surrounding farms at various distances from the town. What have those people got more to do than rural dwellers in Ireland? As far as I could see the only difference in the two places was respect for the law.

fatboypee wrote:

1. Access to amenities by people living in rural or remote areas regardless of purpose.

Seeing as the issue is drink driving, we can safely assume the people involved have cars so are they not in a position to drive somewhere to enjoy themselves with other activities.

fatboypee wrote:

This does not detract from the first point as, in fact the first point really is the most important one, rural communities are not served when it comes to public transport, amenities or social gathering space..

Ireland is not the only country with rural dwellers. Other countries manage just fine, why are we different.

How did people get to and from the pub when cars were much less common and before that again when they didnt exist.

Blut

craichoe wrote:

Eh .. Excuse me .. where are you living. Ireland is a society that has drinking as part of its culture.

Theres a difference between a drinking culture and a pub culture - the drinking culture can and should be changed without any negative effects. The pub culture can be maintained perfectly well with a few minor changes in peoples lives. Ots completely possible to go to the pub and enjoy yourself without being drunk if you actually try it. And before you suggest it I'm not suggesting this as some sort of puritan anti-drinking fanatical point of view, I go out probably 3 times a week, usually 2 of them Ill get very drunk, one of them I'll drive to save money/liver damage. You wont have as much fun being out with your friends while sober when theyre all drunk but its still better than sitting at home being bored.

The argument that people cant share cars because they live far apart in the country is silly too. If people are assured of a free lift home 4 out of 5 nights they go to the pub/nightclub then theyre never going to mind spending an extra 45min driving everyone home one night every 2/3/ weeks.

craichoe

Blut wrote:

Theres a difference between a drinking culture and a pub culture - the drinking culture can and should be changed without any negative effects. The pub culture can be maintained perfectly well with a few minor changes in peoples lives. Ots completely possible to go to the pub and enjoy yourself without being drunk if you actually try it. And before you suggest it I'm not suggesting this as some sort of puritan anti-drinking fanatical point of view, I go out probably 3 times a week, usually 2 of them Ill get very drunk, one of them I'll drive to save money/liver damage. You wont have as much fun being out with your friends while sober when theyre all drunk but its still better than sitting at home being bored.

The argument that people cant share cars because they live far apart in the country is silly too. If people are assured of a free lift home 4 out of 5 nights they go to the pub/nightclub then theyre never going to mind spending an extra 45min driving everyone home one night every 2/3/ weeks.

Actually ... its a BIG problem in Italy, in rural and non rural areas. I was visiting Varese, just outside Milan, met up in a bar with about 15 - 16 people and they all had about 3 - 4 drinks and all drove home separately.

Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Russia, France .......

Its a problem in many countries, not just Ireland..

Another point to boot is alot of older folk don't like mineral water and such, they like their Stout sheerly for the taste.

Guinness, Murphys, Beamish, its what they go to a pub for .. good stout !

Not a bloody coke and a smile, if they wanted that why would they go to a pub at all !

rubadub

craichoe wrote:

they like their Stout sheerly for the taste.

I wonder how many acutally do, low alcohol guinness sales were poor before and removed from the market, I don't know how the new version is doing. I don't see many drinking non-alcoholic beers either. They must REALLY like the taste if they can down 8 pints like the auld lads in my local do, some of their wives drink orange juice but do not go through 25 bottles of it in a night which would be the same amount of liquid.

Yes we do have a deep rooted drug culture in Ireland, I think that is why some are upset at the thought of freely supporting it to the benefit of the drug peddlars.

lightening

craichoe wrote:

Eh .. Excuse me .. where are you living..... no gay coffee shops

I think this language just deepens the rural urban divide. I love Dublin city and I love the countryside, I spend one weekend a month in the midlands or in the west. I really don't understand why peope in the country look at the luas for instance and want free transport. Its like me coming back from Sligo and demanding Kelp seaweed baths.

I really think we have to stop this "jackeen v culchie" business.

craichoe

rubadub wrote:

I wonder how many acutally do, low alcohol guinness sales were poor before and removed from the market, I don't know how the new version is doing. I don't see many drinking non-alcoholic beers either. They must REALLY like the taste if they can down 8 pints like the auld lads in my local do, some of their wives drink orange juice but do not go through 25 bottles of it in a night which would be the same amount of liquid.

Yes we do have a deep rooted drug culture in Ireland, I think that is why some are upset at the thought of freely supporting it to the benefit of the drug peddlars.

Guinness Light is what your referring to, and the reason nobody drank it was because it tasted like sh*t.

Also, I'm not from a rural community, i lived in Dublin city center and now live in Cork City Center.

Hellloooo ... We have not had Coffee shops such as Coffee and Nosh or Starbucks till lately.

how much it is again for steamed milk and a drop of coffee ?
its 3 euro or thereabouts ..... steamed milk and a drop of coffee... come on ffs...

lightening

craichoe wrote:

Hellloooo ... We have not had Coffee shops such as Coffee and Nosh or Starbucks till lately.

how much it is again for steamed milk and a drop of coffee ?
its 3 euro or thereabouts ..... steamed milk and a drop of coffee... come on ffs...

"Helllooooo" as you like to say... You were just complaining about having no "gay" cafes and now you are crying about the price? Less of the homophobic quips and if you don't like the price don't buy the coffee.

Blut

craichoe wrote:

Another point to boot is alot of older folk don't like mineral water and such, they like their Stout sheerly for the taste.

Guinness, Murphys, Beamish, its what they go to a pub for .. good stout !

Not a bloody coke and a smile, if they wanted that why would they go to a pub at all !

Thats the exact point of my argument, most people wouldnt be against the government trying to help rural dwellers socialise by maybe subsidising some local amenities. Being asked to pay for taxis to pubs because some people dont like the taste of coke/water/orange juice...thats what people are upset about.
This is the problem with the whole argument you and others are giving, you talk about how the pubs are neccessary social outlets for the community, which is fair enough but if theyre so important to people then they shouldnt have a problem not drinking in them, they can enjoy them without alcohol every so often.

EyesOnly

Well i think its total BS

1: They'll probably still get caught the next morning while going to work anyway!
2: They can pay for this, but cut the buses to bring the elderly to get a meal ??
3: If the pubs think it'll help their business why don't they put a bus run on themselves

Just my 2 cents
Eyes

ninty9er

This thread is getting ridiculous
Some people like the taste of stout and therefore should be allowed to drink drive because they don't like club orange.

What a load of bolli*

I don't particularly like the taste of Vodka but do like the effect to an extent (oh dear God, call a shrink he likes being drunk:eek: ), I'll drink it

I like the taste of Fanta, but the effect on a night out in a club isn't AS good, the canceller of that is I can drive home. I'll drink it

Alcohol=Great night, great chat = Can't fu<king drive so get used to it

Soft Drink=Good night, conversation not so flowing but still coming = Can drive