Rural Drink Driving

BnA

You say that offering free transport is only enouraging people to drink.

That is a point, but not one that is relevant to this argument I think. People are going to pubs, drinking, and driving home. They are doing so generally because, a) they like to drink, and b) they have no alternative way home after drinking. Telling them they shouldn't be drinking is not the answer. Providing them with a way home is.

As for our attitude to drink in Ireland. That's another argument for another day. However I would say I don't think it's as bad as some alarmist media outlets would have you believe.

Beady

I've just endured this whole thread and just about managed not to put my fist through my monitor! There is an incredible urban rural divide. Can I just ask people under 30 who have never been beyond the pale to shut the fcuk up YOU DO NOT HAVE A FCUKING CLUE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT so don't assume because you once missed the nitelink and had to walk 2 miles home you know it all! Some gob****e even seems to think Ennis is a rural town!

md99

Beady wrote:

I've just endured this whole thread and just about managed not to put my fist through my monitor! There is an incredible urban rural divide. Can I just ask people under 30 who have never been beyond the pale to shut the fcuk up YOU DO NOT HAVE A FCUKING CLUE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT so don't assume because you once missed the nitelink and had to walk 2 miles home you know it all! Some gob****e even seems to think Ennis is a rural town!

Of course you're right, all of us under-30s have no valid opinion on anything topical in Ireland whatsoever.

XJR

cpoh1 wrote:

This thread is just plain barking mad. There are some eejits on here who are actually condoning drink driving (XJR, maidhc). These same fellas are the ones on here who probably complain about lane hogging, not indicating etc. Twisted priorities or what!

Perhaps if you read my post rather than read what you would like to think I said you would find I have not condoned drink driving anywhere. I would suggest you get your facts straight rather than misrepresenting an individual and calling them a eejit.

ninty9er

The mentality of some people in here on the pro side tells you just what this country is up against, they don't have a valid argument so they just say

beady wrote:

YOU DO NOT HAVE A FCUKING CLUE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT

Now if you don't mind I have an exam to go and sit, but first of all I have to drop my dad to collect his car so he can visit my 80 yr old grandfather who lives in rural Ireland and manages to socialise in places other than the local pub thank you very much!!

unnameduser

There is quite a rural / urban divide here.

needless to say drink driving is wrong. The issue i believe is that the older generation have been drinking and driving for a long time in rural areas. It always happened. The random breath testing is killing the pub scene in some rural areas.


My local has started doing a taxi service. You just ring and they come and pick you up and also they drop you home. Great service, car is left at home and the driver makes a fortune on tips even thought the taxi is free.

It is up to publicans to get off their ass and do something to save their trade.

Guy:Incognito

cashback wrote:

I really don't see why there's so much fuss over this proposed scheme. Anything that might cut down on road deaths should be supported..

Giving free drugs to addicts will cut down on drug related muggings and robbery.

The government shouldnt be effectivly paying people off to obey the law.

cashback wrote:

Most other people can't get their head around the social fabric of the countryside. You can't just tell all these auld fellas to start drinking coffee or soft drinks. Would it be better if they were all sitting home alone in isolation, watching the telly?

Should people from varying demgraphics be given a checklist of laws and asked which ones they feel should be applicable to them?

Should old people be allowed to beat seven shades of **** out of kids when they do something wrong because it was ok 30 years ago?

unnameduser wrote:

needless to say drink driving is wrong. The issue i believe is that the older generation have been drinking and driving for a long time in rural areas. It always happened. The random breath testing is killing the pub scene in some rural areas.

The world changes over time, people have to deal with it.

unnameduser wrote:

My local has started doing a taxi service. You just ring and they come and pick you up and also they drop you home. Great service, car is left at home and the driver makes a fortune on tips even thought the taxi is free.

It is up to publicans to get off their ass and do something to save their trade.

Thats exactly the point. The publicans want a solution dropped in their lap to a problem. They dont want to contribute financially to it though.

maidhc

Stekelly wrote:

The government shouldnt be effectivly paying people off to obey the law.

Sometimes all stick and no carrot is not the most effective method of enforcing the law.

That bit of carrot goes a long ways to getting people to appreciate the substance of what the law is trying to achieve.

And for those who say "the law is the law" it is important to realise the "law" is just a mode of conduct that a certain number of people in dublin believe we should aspire to. It is not a rule handed down by an infallible deity, and sometimes it is completely misjudged and wrong.

ninty9er

maidhc wrote:

And for those who say "the law is the law" it is important to realise the "law" is just a mode of conduct that a certain number of people in dublin believe we should aspire to. It is not a rule handed down by an infallible deity, and sometimes it is completely misjudged and wrong.

You mean the 166 people from all over the country directly elected by the people of trhe country, the 60 people elected to the Seanad, the external members of Oireachtas committees from all social fabrics, the AG and President, that's a certain number alright, but it's fairly representative.


If something is a directive fair enough a bit of carrot should be used, but this is legislation that exists and has been passed by both houses and not found to be repugnant to the constitution which holds rural Ireland and it's preservation in higher regard than urban Ireland (which I have no problem with).

Go figure...If it's the law that something is wrong the don't fu**ing do it....I don't like the speed limits on certain roads I use, does than mean I'm free to break them because they don't suit me or I'm running late for work...NO...I have to be late and stick within

Seth Brundle

maidhc wrote:

Sometimes all stick and no carrot is not the most effective method of enforcing the law.

That bit of carrot goes a long ways to getting people to appreciate the substance of what the law is trying to achieve.

And for those who say "the law is the law" it is important to realise the "law" is just a mode of conduct that a certain number of people in dublin believe we should aspire to. It is not a rule handed down by an infallible deity, and sometimes it is completely misjudged and wrong.

This may apply with other laws but however when our leaders are broadcasting about how many lives have been saved since the introduction of MBT then they can't go out and be lenient on those who otherwise would D&D

maidhc

ninty9er wrote:

You mean the 166 people from all over the country directly elected by the people of trhe country, the 60 people elected to the Seanad, the external members of Oireachtas committees from all social fabrics, the AG and President, that's a certain number alright, but it's fairly representative.

In theory.

My point is that law should be a product of the peoples views and beliefs, not the other way around. E.g. at one point male homosexuality was illegal, but views changed.

I don't think the notion of vans and taxis in rural Ireland will work. I don't think any major change in the law is workable either though.

One concession which may win votes, and have a negligble impact on road safety would be to prohibit the "morning after" random checks. I think they cause more fear/unjustified hysteria in us culchies than anything else. At this stage some people are terrified of driving the next morning after 2/3 pints.

Wishbone Ash

maidhc wrote:

the "morning after" random checks. I think they cause more fear/unjustified hysteria in us culchies than anything else

Causing a lot of fear up here too. I passed 3 checkpoints on the way to work recently! :eek:

ninty9er

I'd sometimes have to get a lift or walk (depending on college or work) if I'd been hard at it the night before, I don't drive the following day until the evening

I don't see how that could be any more impractical for a rural dweller having lived in a rural area previously. There's always someone passing that's going in the right direction

miju

Beady wrote:

Some gob****e even seems to think Ennis is a rural town!

sorry , did I say Ennis was a rural town???? and my point still stands

Seth Brundle

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Causing a lot of fear up here too. I passed 3 checkpoints on the way to work recently! :eek:

It will only cause fear to those who have something to fear. Those that act responsibly and legally by whatever means available shall have nothing to worry about. I would have no fear approaching a RBT at any time - day or night!

cashback

Stekelly wrote:

Should people from varying demgraphics be given a checklist of laws and asked which ones they feel should be applicable to them?

Should old people be allowed to beat seven shades of **** out of kids when they do something wrong because it was ok 30 years ago?
.

I never suggested drink driving laws should not apply to the older generation.
I said I supported some sort of scheme to help them go to the pub without having to take the car.

Guy:Incognito

cashback wrote:

I said I supported some sort of scheme to help them go to the pub without having to take the car.

For the record I have no problem with the scheme apart from the fact it will be publicly funded. It shoudl be coming as an initiative and payed for ty the licensed trade.

sparkyjo

this is great you will piss and moan about simply suppling a public transport and how the its tax payers money is been thrown away but when the tax payer money is just given away to people that just walk in to ireland you don't care, you don't care about simply keeping the irish way of live alive you would rather kill it off this is great as far as i can see there will be nothing left of the ireland i grow up in in the space of months never mind years i have gone to a lot of other countries and they would never let other counties come in and take over but in this one irish people have just given up and and it's a disgrace i am ashamed to say i am irish now cause people don't know what that is any more and all you people that are complaining it's fine saying designated driver and and just don't drink but that is not the irish way if you want that, leave the country but please leave ireland here...........................

ninty9er

sparkyjo wrote:

this is great you will piss and moan about simply suppling a public transport and how the its tax payers money is been thrown away but when the tax payer money is just given away to people that just walk in to ireland you don't care, you don't care about simply keeping the irish way of live alive you would rather kill it off this is great as far as i can see there will be nothing left of the ireland i grow up in in the space of months never mind years i have gone to a lot of other countries and they would never let other counties come in and take over but in this one irish people have just given up and and it's a disgrace i am ashamed to say i am irish now cause people don't know what that is any more and all you people that are complaining it's fine saying designated driver and and just don't drink but that is not the irish way if you want that, leave the country but please leave ireland here...........................

Jaysus thats one long sentence

Do I detect a troll????

Guy:Incognito

ninty9er wrote:

Do I detect a troll????

Carefull,it might be a whole gaggle of them working together.:)

Dilbert75

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuation

On topic, I'm afraid I'm in the "what's the problem with enforcing the drink driving laws?" camp. Even if everyone wants to have a drink, and doesn't want to drink the poxy range of minerals that are available, what about shandy? It at least approximates to alcohol, but is weaker and, given that the body can metabolise something like a unit of alcohol per hour, and most senior drinkers would likely be only sipping rather than skulling their pints, its hard to see them getting in trouble after two or so hours, at a rate of maybe two pints of shandy per hour. And the publican would be happy too - with the margin on minerals being so much higher than on alcohol, he'd make more moolah.

Guy:Incognito

Seems we in the "no free booze busses" camp are in the majority on the politics forum too.

astraboy

I don't think its a case of "free booze busses" for all the country people that want to go out and get buckled. I grew up in a rural part of Cork county. When I went home from college for Xmas I was shocked at how quiet the pubs were. This was because people were afraid to come out of their houses to have a few pints.

Now, I worked in a rural pub for years on weekends. I would see people drive home in no condition to, and frankly this annoyed me. I believe that often the wrong people are being targeted, an 80 year old woman got arrested in my village after 2 hot whiskeys at an Irish Catholic association meeting one night. The road this woman was driving home would have been very quiet, a tiny chance of meeting another vehicle. Was she a danger? In my book no. In general I am happy to see the laws being enforced, however it is very easy for someone in a city to flag down a taxi to get home from the pub, in rural Ireland such services are limited.

What I would like is maybe funding towards publicians buying minibuses to pick people up or take them home, and maybe towards taxi services. I would not suggest that people get to use the services for free, but if rural pubs stay in business it means more employment in an area, more tax revenue for the Gov and keeps locals happy, so everyones a winner.

ninty9er

astraboy wrote:

however it is very easy for someone in a city to flag down a taxi to get home from the pub

Have you tried it recently????

maidhc

ninty9er wrote:

Have you tried it recently????

In Cork you will get a taxi at any hour of the night within 15 mins. And it is a useful service that is not available to rural dwellers. (I have the privilege of being both in recent times!)

kbannon wrote:

It will only cause fear to those who have something to fear. Those that act responsibly and legally by whatever means available shall have nothing to worry about. I would have no fear approaching a RBT at any time - day or night!

The problem is the people who are fearful are normally those who should have nothing to fear. If you are a holy rosary pioneer in the cast of Father Matthew then it all is black and while, however if you do drink it is all shades of grey... e.g. how much, what time should you finish, what time can you drive, etc etc. And the people concerned are highly unlikely to run over a bunny rabbit to start with....

C.D.

maidhc wrote:

In Cork you will get a taxi at any hour of the night within 15 mins. And it is a useful service that is not available to rural dwellers. (I have the privilege of being both in recent times!)

In all seriousness on a Thurs/Fri/Sat night at closing time it can take hours to get a taxi- only exception being if you are a very attractive female.

Why do we have laws? To ensure that all citizens are treated fairly, to ensure that all citizens are kept as safe within acceptable parameters. To provide a basis for a moral code that will define how the members of said society are treated fairly. Legislation is primarily there to benefit the members of society as a whole.

Clearly drink-driving legislation is there to protect the majority of society. By making an exception, you are treating those who don't get an exception unfairly.

Which duly follows that you should not be exempt from MBT because of your geographical location,or age, gender etc. All would be discrimination.

So therefore having established this, the main argument seems to be trying to find a way to enable rural dwellers to drink and find an alternative method of transport home. Needless to say, drinking within the legal limit or not drinking at all will allow said person to drive home. Providing free transport encourages those involved to drink excessively. If these places are populated by the regulars that seem to be staying at home, why can't five of them band together, and the each acts as DD every fifth week. That is not even once a month, that means drinking within the limit every 35 days.

astraboy

Your idea CD, has been discussed already. If people live spread out several miles apart from a village, as would be the case of a few friends in many a rural area, it can turn into a large round trip. I'm not suggesting that the law be changed, I am happy it is enforced but there seems to be a lot of people from cities giving out about setting up a basic rural transport scheme so people can have a few drinks and safely get home. Whats the problem? Anything that makes the roads safer is a good thing.

As foe the gov proposals, its propably electioneering. The only way the rural publicians and social scene will stay alive is if they adapt their approach, ie several pubs clubbing together to purchase a people carrier to ferry customers. It would not take a huge change to achieve this.

As for whinging about flagging down taxi's, I never have a problem in Cork, thats what you get for living in the pale!;)

Seth Brundle

astraboy wrote:

I believe that often the wrong people are being targeted, an 80 year old woman got arrested in my village after 2 hot whiskeys at an Irish Catholic association meeting one night. The road this woman was driving home would have been very quiet, a tiny chance of meeting another vehicle. Was she a danger? In my book no. In general I am happy to see the laws being enforced, however it is very easy for someone in a city to flag down a taxi to get home from the pub, in rural Ireland such services are limited.

wrong people are targetted? I thought they were targetting everyone and punishing those over the limit. Did I get this wrong?
As for Biddy coming from an Irish Catholic meeting - using the IC meeting as an excuse is not valid - she was still over the limit and as able to do as much damage as anyone (some would say that an 80year old could do more damage!)

maidhc wrote:

In Cork you will get a taxi at any hour of the night within 15 mins. And it is a useful service that is not available to rural dwellers. (I have the privilege of being both in recent times!)

Isn't that great. I have already said that I cannot afford to pay 50 quid on a taxi to get home. I therefore make other arrangements - I don't bitch about it!

maidhc wrote:

The problem is the people who are fearful are normally those who should have nothing to fear. If you are a holy rosary pioneer in the cast of Father Matthew then it all is black and while, however if you do drink it is all shades of grey... e.g. how much, what time should you finish, what time can you drive, etc etc. And the people concerned are highly unlikely to run over a bunny rabbit to start with....

Again, only those who have something to fear should be fearful. These people do have a choice. As for them being highly unlikely to run over a rabbit, that is a dumb statement and I would have expected more from you!

maidhc

kbannon wrote:

Again, only those who have something to fear should be fearful. These people do have a choice. As for them being highly unlikely to run over a rabbit, that is a dumb statement and I would have expected more from you!

There is a huge difference (as regards road safety) to Biddy tootling home from the IC meeting with 2 hot whiskeys, and Bill driving down the M50 @130km/h with 4 pints of Beer.

I just see a lot of elderly neighbours around me, who rarely ever drank anything now afraid to go outside their door. Telling them "they have nothing to fear" is pointless. Telling them to car pool is pointless. For the majority the laws are reasonable enough, but there is a large minority unjustly suffering over the issue. As I said above, even his holiness Gay Byrne realises the issue exists.

Seth Brundle

the fact that Bill is more over the limit should not be used to excuse Biddy being over the limit!