Rural Drink Driving

Wishbone Ash

I heard of an incident in rural Co Limerick recently involving an 85 year old woman who is a poor driver. She was being followed by a young couple who presumed she was drunk (she doesn't drink). When she arrived at her home, the young couple pulled in and took her keys. They said that they were going to the local Garda station to report her. There was no Gardaí on duty so they put her keys in through the letterbox of the station.

The elderly lady was left standing outside her house, very frightened, in the freezing cold, late at night and was forced to get help from a neighbour to break into her home.

I though that this reaction was completely over the top (and probably illegal). Even if the lady was driving under the influence, the actions of this smug young couple, wouldn't be justified.

BnA

ninty9er wrote:

I'd sometimes have to get a lift or walk (depending on college or work) if I'd been hard at it the night before, I don't drive the following day until the evening

I don't see how that could be any more impractical for a rural dweller having lived in a rural area previously. There's always someone passing that's going in the right direction

99er

It's ok. You have already made it perfectly clear to us that you haven't the remotest idea about rural Ireland.

There is no need to continue showing us.

BnA

Seth Brundle

BnA wrote:

99er

It's ok. You have already made it perfectly clear to us that you haven't the remotest idea about rural Ireland.

There is no need to continue showing us.

BnA

That may be so but when younger and more stupid I lived in rural ireland and partook in the widespread practice of driving whilst under the influence.

I had other options back then but chose the easy way out! Those other options are still in existence for rural dwellers. Theye just don't want to have to use them because it involves a change in old habits

_Kaiser_

The simple fact is noone NEEDS to drink - regardless of where they live.

If I want to go out and have a few I make alternative arrangements to get home first.. I get a bus, or a taxi, or get a lift home or even walk!! :eek:

If I can't arrange something I either don't drink (and drive in so I can offer that same lift to someone else), or I don't go out. Better yet - and more and more common these days - we might just arrange a session in one of the lads' houses for the night/weekend.. it's cheaper as well these days anyway!
Just because Ireland has a "tradition" of people's social lives revolving around the pub and getting pissed, and then hopping into the car to drive home, doesn't mean it's right or acceptable, or anything to be proud of.

I don't care where someone lives. Noone has the right to put other people's lives at risk by driving home drunk from the pub. There is no excuse and no exceptions.

Furthermore, it's not the responsibility of the tax payer to fund "booze buses" to bring people to/from their local. If the publicans are so worried about their trade, then they can either club together and buy a minibus/people carrier, or start thinking about alternative employment.
Whilst I enjoy a social drink as much as the next person, I'm not blind to the problems (on and off the road) it causes, and personally I don't think a move away from the Irish drinking culture would necessarily be a bad thing anyway.

Blut

What exactly is the problem with going to the pub and only having one pint? Or even none? I accept that people are saying the pubs are vital social meeting points for the community but really its just silly to be saying that to be in the pub you have to be getting drunk. Old people being "too scared to go to the local" is crazy, if they were willing to sacrifice some of their alcohol they'd have absolutely no problem socialising. I regularly go out sober if people need a lift, its not as fun but its still better than being home alone, unless your friends are complete drunks anyway. You can still socialise perfectly fine if you want to.

maidhc

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I though that this reaction was completely over the top (and probably illegal). Even if the lady was driving under the influence, the actions of this smug young couple, wouldn't be justified.

Completely illegal, even were she completely out of her mind.

It is funny actually, a neighbour of mine drives unnaturally slow, and has been pulled and breathalysed numerous times. The poor woman now hates the gardaí with a vengeance!

jank

The West-Brit Jackeens from the Pale in this post reminds me of South Park.

"dey tuk uhr jabs!!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSuesXXI3Gc

Carry on..

ninty9er

astraboy wrote:

As for whinging about flagging down taxi's, I never have a problem in Cork, thats what you get for living in the pale!;)

I live in Limerick and departing from a club at closing (2:30)will mean you don't get a taxi until at least 3:30, taxi's are still picking people up after clubs in Limerick at 6am on Sunday mornings

BnA wrote:

99er

It's ok. You have already made it perfectly clear to us that you haven't the remotest idea about rural Ireland.

There is no need to continue showing us.

As I have already stated. although only 20 I have spent a good chunk of my childhood (7 years) living in rural Ireland, and given the choice would prefer to live in rural Ireland (more bang for your buck)

Simple fact is, Driving over the prescribed limit is illegal, it is up to anyone who wants to drink and drive to find out whence that limit applies on them. Above this they should face the full wrath of the law. Our family couldn't afford to run 2 cars and at the time selling up and moving was cheaper. I am well aware of how it is to live in rural Ireland, including the 5:30am starts to drop my dad to work before breakfast.

I also have plenty of friends who live in rural areas, who WILL GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO DROP ME AND OTHERS HOME.

For a friend's 18th a few of us went to his house, none of us drank and 1 was driving. he ended up going 10 miles out of his way to drop me home before going another another 3 miles of track on the way home with one of the other lads giving him a total of 24 miles home when he only needed to do 13. It wouldn't be a unique case so stop moaning about not being able to have a few pints and drive home. They staggared home before the invention of the car so why the hell can't they do it now

Stark

ninty9er wrote:

They staggared home before the invention of the car so why the hell can't they do it now

Because they'll be mowed down by one of their mates

craichoe

Well i think it would be a good idea, I know Ireland has a typical ME TOO attitude, as in, one demographic gets something and another starts moaning that they get nothing out of it.

At the moment Ireland is loaded.. we can afford it ffs. Theres people in rural Kerry committing suicide out of sheer and utter loneliness. I believe everyone here is forgetting that the people that do this in the country are from a previous generation, its just the done thing and i don't think anyone here under the age of 30 could understand it. I live in Cork City (centre) myself and i can walk to everything. It is true that all people in the rural community have is the pub, with the exception of maybe a a community centre or road bowling. I used to go out with a girl that lived MILES out from the city, jesus h christ what a kick in the balls.

1. I've seen countless thread complaining about the public transport in the city, never mind in the likes of Caherciveen, Kenmare etc ... Even in Cork its the same, Ballinspittle eh ... good luck with Taxi driver finding you.

2. I don't think country people CARE if its dangerous or not, their the ones living in the country, not us, they know the risks.

3. A car in the country is a necessity ! not a choice, if you don't have one you can't go anywhere, hence they learn to drive BEFORE they get their license, starting out on a tractor. I would say their experience of driving this way would give them advantage, although it scares me when their doing 70mph on some dodgy backroad saying "ARRA SHURE I KNOW THIS ROAD WELL" when i reply with .. eh ... what if theres a cow or something crossing ?

I don't condone drink driving, its just that it happens, especially when judgment is impaired by the alcohol itself, if the option is there then its more likely they'll take it and possibly save maybe 1 or 2 lives per year.

jank

Some of the Urbanites on this thread have never even considered the social and community aspects of what this problem has done to the local rural community.

Here is a fact for you. More people have commited suicde last year then was killed on the roads...
Vast majority are rural males..

Think about that

gyppo

jank wrote:

Some of the Urbanites on this thread have never even considered the social and community aspects of what this problem ha done to the local rural community.

Here is a fact for you. More people have commited suicde last year then was killed on the roads...
Vast majority are rural males..

Think about that

Leaving aside the topic of drink driving for a minute, the present government have done their level best to systematically destroy the fabric of rural ireland.
How many post offices in the country have been closed?
Instead of rural regeneration, there appears to be a distinct policy of removing people from rural areas, due to the draconian planning policies employed. No doubt An Taisce (whose spokespeople all seem to talk with the obligatory D4 accent), would wish for all the rural peasantry to be cleansed from the countryside, so they could go for long unspoilt walks.

The point is this: The proposal to provide rural transport is a cynical attempt to win votes in the next election. Nothing else. Once you are outside the pale, you don't count.

What the government should be doing is offering some form of redress to rural ireland. Anyone I know would be delighted to PAY for any form of transport.
Any of our urbanites ever try getting a taxi at night in a**ehole of longford for example? Its like the search for the Holy Grail.
Ever try walking home in the dark on a narrow twisty country road? Its difficult without public lighting and footpaths. Not very safe either.

To summarise my views:
Drink driving is wrong. Nothing justifies it.
Rural dwellers are as entitled to public transport as our urban dwellers.
Rural dwellers would be delighted for the oppertunity of paying for such transport.

Wishbone Ash

gyppo wrote:

How many post offices in the country have been closed?

In fairness, that also happens in urban areas and it is usually because a Postmaster/Postmistress retires and a replacement cannot be found. The Post Office in Dublin Airport closed last June and a replacement Postmaster has yet to become interested. That could hardly be described as rural!

gyppo

Fair enough, but theres lots of other post offices to choose from in Dunlin.

cpoh1

Its gas really. My father tells me that when he was younger his old fella was always complaining that when he was a young fella he never had any shoes walking to school etc. My father complains to me that he always had to walk to school while I had a bike. I can see myself complaining to my own young fella some day when he gets his lift in every morning. Its called evolution, Ireland is moving on, just like rural Ireland is too. This country has always evolved over the years, and people will always hark back to the old days.

Its the very same with drink driving, nowadays you just cant do it. Full stop. End of story.

@maidhc- I drive a gtr skyline, I dont drink anymore (havent touched a drop in 18 months), I dont and never have smoked, im 26 years of age, have my licence for 9 years (clean, no points etc.), have 8 years no claims in my own name, and in your estimation am more of a threat on the road at night than a person who drinks and drives, simply because of my age and because I drive a performance car. Your living in the dark ages if you really believe that this is the case.

Gregor Samsa

jank wrote:

Here is a fact for you. More people have commited suicde last year then was killed on the roads...
Vast majority are rural males..

Think about that

how is this related to not being allowed drive while over the limit

jank

Do you really want me to spell it out to you?

rubadub

maidhc wrote:

And for those who say "the law is the law" it is important to realise the "law" is just a mode of conduct that a certain number of people in dublin believe we should aspire to. It is not a rule handed down by an infallible deity, and sometimes it is completely misjudged and wrong.

It is sad to think that it had to actually be made a law. People should not have to be forced by law to have respect for other peoples lives. From the way some people talk you would think the law has absolutely no merit at all.

One will talk of Mick having 5 pints, and then a boyracer flying around. If you want the law changed then you will have the boyracer AFTER 5 pints, much worse. Everybody has to be treated equally by the law. If you are over the limit in the morning you are deemed unfit to drive. Are they supposed to ignore morning drink drivers? I am sure many irresponsible night shift workers would love that.

rubadub

gyppo wrote:

Rural dwellers would be delighted for the oppertunity of paying for such transport.

The transport may have to cost a lot to be economically viable, many urban areas are not served well by public transport due to lack of demand.

As I mentioned before inconveniences of rural areas is reflected in the property prices. I would love to be able to buy a cheap house in the country with all of the amenities of an urban area available to me. Unfortunately you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Blut

jank wrote:

Do you really want me to spell it out to you?

If you think people being unable to drink leads them to suicide you must know an AWFUL lot of alcoholics...Theres absolutely no reason people cant go out and socialise and not get drunk, then they'll be perfectly able to drive.

Guy:Incognito

Being talked about on the panel atm.

Neill Delamere : "Michael Lowry shoudl shut the **** up"


Yer one on the panel talking about havign a discussion with a woman down te country whose 4 (5?) sons are afraid to drink now, so she says why doesnt one of your sons drive and the rest can drink (obviously meant in rotation) and the womans reply is along the lines of " thats ridiculous, why would they go 4 miles to the pub to have one pint". Well thats me won over on the subject.:rolleyes:

Seth Brundle

The simple reality of this is that rural people believe that their right to socialise is being ripped away from them. They cannot see the wood for the trees however. What is being done is an attempt at reducing fatalities on the roads - a significant portion being due to in some shape or form from alcohol consumption.
When I was stupid I used to think Id be grand and was fairly sure that i wouldn't be caught. Im sure if you could ask those who are caught driving under the influence, they would say the same thing. But they did get caught! Im sure if you asked those who drank and then subsequently caused a fatality they would say the same thing - "I thought I'd be grand!"
RBT in the morning time is not done enough IMO. This is a time when kids are going to school. For all those who are saying how its a way of life and morning RBT should be scaled back, do you want people over the limit driving around when your kids are playing?

maidhc

kbannon wrote:

The simple reality of this is that rural people believe that their right to socialise is being ripped away from them. They cannot see the wood for the trees however. What is being done is an attempt at reducing fatalities on the roads - a significant portion being due to in some shape or form from alcohol consumption.

As a society we accept a certain amount of "collateral damage" so as to maintain a certain standard of living. We are willing to let people die to maintain a standard for the majority (as it happens the most die in developing nations, but that is another issue). The world would be a safer place without machines, aircraft, cars, gas, electricity, all of which cause a certain number of fatalities, and will continue to do so.

It is facile to blame rural dwellers for complaining about the new provisions, the reality is they are more affected by them than the majority (who live in well serviced urban centers), and as such are less impressed with the compromised reached!

Seth Brundle

They are as much affected by the new enforcement as I am but Im in favour it it.
According to your post, you seem content with unnecessary fatalities. Would you be be as happy if a member of your family gets killed by a drunk driver?

jimmycrackcorm

Stekelly wrote:

For the record I have no problem with the scheme apart from the fact it will be publicly funded. It shoudl be coming as an initiative and payed for ty the licensed trade.

Why does the government have to subsidise Dublin Bus? Shouldn't all those people who just use it to go to and from work pay the full cost of the service?

Look at the amount of money spent on the Luas and Dart and then at the small corridor of accessible users - lucky them...

Sonnenblumen

maidhc wrote:

As a society we accept a certain amount of "collateral damage" so as to maintain a certain standard of living. We are willing to let people die to maintain a standard for the majority (as it happens the most die in developing nations, but that is another issue). The world would be a safer place without machines, aircraft, cars, gas, electricity, all of which cause a certain number of fatalities, and will continue to do so.

It is facile to blame rural dwellers for complaining about the new provisions, the reality is they are more affected by them than the majority (who live in well serviced urban centers), and as such are less impressed with the compromised reached!

Sounds like moron logic class for the interbreds is still in demand.

unkel

Sonnenblumen wrote:

Sounds like moron logic class for the interbreds is still in demand.

You can agree or disagree, but there is no need to insult another poster. Consider yourself warned, Sonnenblumen. Next time it'll be a wee vacation

Hotblack Desiato

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

Why does the government have to subsidise Dublin Bus?

Does it, in any meaningful way?

AFAIK all it gets is an amount to pay for free travel, as far as operating costs go. There's been some new buses but nothing like enough to keep the same level of service going as gridlock gets worse and worse.

Look at the amount of money spent on the Luas and Dart and then at the small corridor of accessible users - lucky them...

Yes, lucky them - and we need lots more commuter rail services and not just in Dublin either.
They're profitable services. Would rural booze taxis make a profit? If so, why isn't it being done already? If not, why is the taxpayer being asked to fund a basket case of a service to protect publicans' profits?

maidhc

kbannon wrote:

They are as much affected by the new enforcement as I am but Im in favour it it.
According to your post, you seem content with unnecessary fatalities. Would you be be as happy if a member of your family gets killed by a drunk driver?

From a personal point of view it doesn't affect me at all! I couldn't afford to be without my car before RBT was introduced, so that position has not changed. I had a few drinks around christmas when I wasn't going to be driving anywhere for about 24 hours!

My parents though have stopped going out since its introduction, even though neither drank much, and if the truth be told probably were still within the limit after a night out.

Cars have killed a member of my family (my uncle made a mess of overtaking a lorry). He was another statistic in the "it happens every day column" of the Irish Indo. The point is though there is only so far people will modify their behavior in order to save lives... anyone up for a 30km/h general limit?

craichoe

Blut wrote:

If you think people being unable to drink leads them to suicide you must know an AWFUL lot of alcoholics...Theres absolutely no reason people cant go out and socialise and not get drunk, then they'll be perfectly able to drive.

Eh .. Excuse me .. where are you living. Ireland is a society that has drinking as part of its culture. We are the second highest consumers of beer per head in the world, next to the Czech Republic. It's because theres nothing else to do, if you can't socialise you get lonely. If you get lonely you get depressed. If you get depressed theres a good chance that you'll take a rope, walk out to a tree and hang yourself off it. An alcoholic is someone thats Dependant on Alcohol, this is about the people being able to socialise and alcohol being apart of that.

Seriously .. you've no idea what its like living in the middle of nowhere, You can't walk to anything, no spar or centra to get cigarettes, no bus, no gay coffee shops, no cinema etc.

Ireland may be changing but we've complete and utter sh*te mess of it, were like a bodybuilder that was force fed steroids and now its just crap.

30 years ago we were poor, then we join the EU and get a load of cash dumped on us, U.S. companies coming in and using our country for its tax breaks.

As i said .. I am a tax payer, hey i pay alot when it comes to paying tax, but people in the country are IRISH, their Citizens and this is part of their Social Lifes. I do not and have not lived in a rural area for any long period of time.

Perhaps a better system would be to give the local bars a grant to purchase their own mini-bus, would work out alot better in the long term.