Crime out of control in this country

Backtoblack

Sangre wrote:

Most crime stats can't be compared as the Garda switched to the PULSE syste in about 2002 changing the headings/definitions of crimes. I don't have any onlines at hand, anything I'd have would be from reports/journals.

From the rest of your post...I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Maybe you do need to go to bed.

I hope you got some manners after your nights rest young man.
If you want points heres one - If criminals are in jail for longer sentences, they will be able to do less damage in the community (granted to an extent, because its apparent that Gilligan isn't out of business just because he is locked up etc) but still and all, at least the bastard is in jail. F**k*** *******!!!!!!!

Anyway, better go. Wish me luck in my run for charity.

Backtoblack

Sangre wrote:

Most crime stats can't be compared as the Garda switched to the PULSE syste in about 2002 changing the headings/definitions of crimes. I don't have any onlines at hand, anything I'd have would be from reports/journals.

From the rest of your post...I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Maybe you do need to go to bed.

PS reports will do as long as they're from a source that I would respect.

irish_bob

i am going to pull no punches here
you always hear politicians on tc or radio saying the gardai are doing a great job , no matter which party , they all say it ,
the reason they say it is because politicians dont like calling a spade a spade
on top of that our police force are extremly hostile to any form of criticism , they also have an attack dog in pj stone their press office
so the politcians for fear of being trashed parrot the same line , guards are doing an excellent job , what claptrap
this is far from the opinion the majority of irish people hold
you always hear the garda spokespersons when the issue of increased crime is brought up say oh we are under resourced
i for one to not belive this for a second , i belive that the problem is how the gardai deploy thier resources , go into dublin city of a saturday night and you have drunken outs kicking the **** out of each other and not a cop in sight
travel a few miles out and you have a bunch of guards stopping people to check thier motor tax is displayed or thier tires are not bald
i went into a garda station in a provincial town a few weeks ago about getting a form signed and thier were 4 guards behind the counter just shooting the breeze
i know a lot of people including myself who belive that the guards love to look like thier ready for action when it comes to setting up check points to stop people for minor offences , opperation cath a culchie or something
oh yes , the boys in blue love nothing more than an easy target
thier all macho when they talk down to you when they catch you without your driving licence with you
are they so arrogant and haughty when their dealing with the big guns in our inner citys
some like to think that guards are like priests once were , they see police work as a vocation , nonesense , for most of them , its a descsion based on an average leaving cert , a guarentee of a state job with extremly good pay with for the most part short hours and unless your in a inner city poverty ridden area , very little to do except annoy farmers about not having good enough lights on thier tractors
as i said earlier , i believe the majority of irish people do not hold our lazy cynical and quite corrupt as recent storys have shown, police force in high esteem
appart from those who are related to guards of course , those whos dad or brother is a guard , they will always jump down your throat at the slightest criticism of the guard
and as metioned politicians who say what will cause the least amount of controversy for them

Terry

aww. did someone get pulled for driving offences?

Backtoblack

julep wrote:

aww. did someone get pulled for driving offences?

mike65

I don't have problem with suggestion. I have a problem with hysteria and political fuelled panic. People are constantly mis-stating the reality of Ireland, that it is a relatively safe country. Unless these type of murders increased rapidly for at least a year or two I'm going to consider it a blip in a relatively stable murder rate for the last 2 decades (although while increasing so is our population).

The murder rate here has doubled in 20 years but is still 40% lower than than the EU15 average. That said we are catching up quickly as the overall rate falls slightly.

Mike.

monument

Backtoblack wrote:

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

Backtoblack wrote:

no Sangre. I don't read tabloids. I read the Sunday times every sunday (all of it except the sports section and usually not the home section either.) I read a lot of books and watch prime-time and questions & answers without fail every week.
I'm just so so bored with the drugs arguement.

Backtoblack wrote:

Drugs are baad....mmmkay.

That sums up your argument.

Backtoblack wrote:

IMO the only solution to increase the sentences for all drug offences.

If you were to actually read my last post and not use the lovely rolleyes symbol you’d read that “increase the sentences” doesn’t work.

The fear of getting caught is the most important factor. The amount of detection and enforcement need to police the selling of drugs and personal drug use is realistically unattainable.

Backtoblack wrote:

With regards the crime rate in Ireland. I honestly don't know the figures and Ive too much to do at the moment to argue with you..

In one of your post you say, “PS reports will do as long as they're from a source that I would respect”…

Well, the article with crime figures I quoted and provide a link was written by the Irish journalist Vincent Browne and published in the Sunday Business Post. Please let me know if you have a problem with that source.

Backtoblack wrote:

But do you think its acceptable to have a man shot dead in the IFSC in Dublin during the week at 9pm? Do you think its normal?

No, and I don’t think anybody should be killed in this way, but the full picture is it not just “a man”, it’s somebody who was – if the media are correct – heavily involved in gangland crime.

Backtoblack wrote:

I want something to be done now so that I don't have to worry from now on about walking home alone from the IFSC (I work there)and to be able to feel that I am safe at least to a degree.

It wasn’t a random crime. It was a focused hit. Normal people should worry more about getting knocked down then getting shot.

Backtoblack wrote:

I am shocked though and a bit frightened that a man was shot dead in the IFSC (and other murders) and I would like to know that the government and police force are upping the numbers on the "beat" and are taking this as seriously as I am and many many others are, used to normal society.

As for upping police numbers, the FF led government have failed miserably at past promises. They currently

Backtoblack wrote:

I would like to see the stats of what you are saying about crime not having gone up in a few years .... link??

Again…

“For over 20 years now, what is known as ‘headline crime’ has remained around the 100,000 level, or a bit below that. Some years, it has veered above it; some years, it has gone down to the low 80,000s, but it has been around the same level.”

”The number of murders has gone up, but from a very low level.”

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2006/11/26/story19131.asp

Catari Jaguar

Well the elite coke users of this country could just, maybe, cut back on their usage. Could put many drug dealers out of business, could prevent some of the wars/ crime etc.

Don't buy counterfeit products like DVDs etc, that's a HUGE business with a lot of rivalry. And does contribute funding towards gangs etc.

Also, anyone who uses brothels/ hookers/ lap dancing clubs could stop too. And prevent pimps, human trafficking etc.

As long as there's a demand there'll be suppliers.

The problem does lie with everyone. No one wants to accept responsibility. Let the Gardai/ Government sort it out.

It's the same with road deaths, a lot of people won't drive responsibly and expect changes to come about miraculously?? Get real and cop on. In an ideal world maybe....

CLADA

irish_bob wrote:

i am going to pull no punches here

WOW! What a 2nd post irish bob, can't wait for number 3. From reading your post and the observations contained therein, I'm guessing you are a farmer with a good leaving cert who lives in the centre of Dublin and drives a tractor with bald tyres, you don't carry your driving licence with you and definitely not related to any member of An Garda Siochana!!!

Am I close???

monument

Lil Kitten wrote:

Well the elite coke users of this country could just, maybe, cut back on their usage. Could put many drug dealers out of business, could prevent some of the wars/ crime etc.

A dramatic drop in demand would mean more bloodshed as there’s more gangs and drugs and less consumers.

Something similar happens after police crackdowns, when a market vacuum is left the stable (- in many ways) and older gangs are replaced in bloody power struggles.

Lil Kitten wrote:

Don't buy counterfeit products like DVDs etc, that's a HUGE business with a lot of rivalry. And does contribute funding towards gangs etc.

I cant remember who said it recently but it was somebody in the Irish music or film business, the comment went something like 10 years ago he could nearly name all the groups involved in counterfeiting DVDs and CDs, but now a huge amount is done by what could be described as sole operators (ie not gangs).

Lil Kitten wrote:

Also, anyone who uses brothels/ hookers/ lap dancing clubs could stop too. And prevent pimps, human trafficking etc.

Can you explain your inclusion of lap dancing clubs here?

Human trafficking for prostitution and Ireland’s apparent infiltration of eastern European gangs is now known to be greatly hyped up. For example the Prime Time program on the subject of trafficking for prostitution interviewed women in Eastern Europe – some people say this is because there was no work for them here in Ireland the market was already saturated so they had to return home .

And in reality the only prostitution that is carried out on the streets is drug addicts. The last crack down on prostitution (after In Dublin, in it’s former life closed because of adverts) forced all the prostitutes back on to the unsafe streets, also causing bloody fights between both groups of prostitutes. It’s apparently back to the days of In Dublin now, but the internet now taking the adverts. [All of this information is second hand btw]

If you want to look at gangs/drugs/etc rationally, take it as a business and look at them as markets.

Lil Kitten wrote:

As long as there's a demand there'll be suppliers.

And nobody here has given any realistic methods of cutting off demand.

Lil Kitten wrote:

The problem does lie with everyone. No one wants to accept responsibility. Let the Gardai/ Government sort it out.

It's the same with road deaths, a lot of people won't drive responsibly and expect changes to come about miraculously?? Get real and cop on. In an ideal world maybe....

I agree with you to a great extent on road deaths and personal reasonability; however the case for the legalisations of both drugs and prostitution far outweighs the unrealistic demands for crackdowns which normally result in more people getting hurt and killed, along with the state taking an unhealthy approach to personal freedoms.

Terry

monument wrote:

As for upping police numbers, the FF led government have failed miserably at past promises. They currently

they currently what?
don't leave us hanging, messiah.

Lil Kitten wrote:

Well the elite coke users of this country could just, maybe, cut back on their usage. Could put many drug dealers out of business, could prevent some of the wars/ crime etc.

oh, don't say that in AH.

angry stoner wrote:

'We have the right to do drugs. we have receptors in our brain designed for them. the cops and the government need to leave us alone. we're not harming anyone. coffee is a drug too. Ireland has a drink problem. leave me alone. i wah wah wah'

Killaqueen!!!

Maybe I'm a bit slow today but why exactly is everyone arguing? There is crime in every country. I don't think we're any worse in Ireland tbh.

Hashbrown

CLADA wrote:

WOW! What a 2nd post irish bob, can't wait for number 3. From reading your post and the observations contained therein, I'm guessing you are a farmer with a good leaving cert who lives in the centre of Dublin and drives a tractor with bald tyres, you don't carry your driving licence with you and definitely not related to any member of An Garda Siochana!!!

Am I close???

"good leaving cert"

Dont thing so CLADA not in english anyway with the spelling in Irish Bob's Post.

hellboy99

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

Maybe I'm a bit slow today but why exactly is everyone arguing? There is crime in every country. I don't think we're any worse in Ireland tbh.

It's very true to say that crime is worldwide but if you read through all the posts you soon start to see how the rate at which crime has grown, especially drug related crime in this country over a very short number of years. It's very worrying to see how fast crime and drug use has increased when you consider that we are a small country.

Here's a fact for you all (based on figures for 2003 - 2004):

HIV infection attributed to injecting drug use;
Here in Ireland it is was 12.5% per million and only 2.5% in the UK :eek:

This country is failing on all levels, from justice all the way down to educating our children.

slipss

Too much stuff to read there, I just want to say in regards to the OP that arming rank and file Garda is a very bad idea. Also the death penalty is pointless. If the threat of a life sentence doesn't disuade someone from commiting murder then neither will a death sentence because they either don't think they will be caught(in which case in thier heads they have no reason to fear punishment) or they just don't fear any possible punishment if they are caught.

Terry

hellboy99 wrote:

Here's a fact for you all :
HIV infection attributed to injecting drug use is at 12.5% cases per million in this country :eek:

This country is failing on all levels, from justice all the way down to educating our children.

tht doesnt make sense. 12.5 per hundred cases per million?

i was quite good at maths when i was in school (100% in every exam, believe it or not), but i can't make sense of that.

gonna have to ask for a source.

hellboy99

julep wrote:

gonna have to ask for a source.

Got it from the EU drugs agency, it's the 2006 annual report and has the following info :

Overview of the European drugs phenomenon in 29 countries.

Drug facts, figures and analyses: across Europe and by country.

Latest trends and social, legal and political responses.

http://ar2006.emcdda.europa.eu/en/home-en.html

Terry

hellboy99 wrote:

Got it from the EU drugs agency, it's the 2006 annual report and has the following info :

Overview of the European drugs phenomenon in 29 countries.

Drug facts, figures and analyses: across Europe and by country.

Latest trends and social, legal and political responses.

http://ar2006.emcdda.europa.eu/en/home-en.html

ok. link is good. just quote the 12.5 per hundred per million part. i'm too tired to read the entire report.
in the mean time: I'm out of control.

monument

julep wrote:

they currently what?
don't leave us hanging, messiah.

I'm glad you're handing on to my every word, but I don't have a clue what I about say there.

hellboy99

Another two shootings last night, this keeps up and before long it will be like the US with shootings every day.

monument

No, we still have a lot to catch up on...

"Some commentary last week expressed the firm conviction that Ireland was now more dangerous than New York. There will be about 60 or so murders in Ireland this year, in a population of about 4 million. There’ll be about 500 in New York, with a population of eight million."
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2006/12/17/story19683.asp

mike65

Its not a race we should want to win though!

Mike.

gurramok

Sentencing doesnt help, still figuring out how a judge came across to impose these sentences:

Stab another fella to death in prison - 6 yr sentence
http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/story.asp?j=250175070&p=z5xy75933&n=250176013&archive=18/12/2006

Beat a fella to death - 3 yr sentence (+ 5 suspended)
http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/story.asp?j=4348530&p=4348545&n=4348622&archive=18/12/2006

I also read in paper yesterday, a bloke who slagged a garda giving verbal abuse gets 2 months, maybe he should of kept up the abuse a bit longer and he would of got 3 years equivalent to beating to death a man!!

Hardly the right message to combat crime with this so called deterrents?

Capt'n Midnight

how about seven years for robbing a handbag vs. one year for a drink drive killing ? :mad: