Crime out of control in this country

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

arybvtcw0eolkf

ziggy67 wrote:

1.Depends the price the Gov sells them for
2.Why would you buy drugs cut with god knows what from dealers when you can buy known quality?
3. The black market is there, right now, this could only curb it.

Read post #61.

THE GOVERNMENT CAN'T IMPORT NARCOTICS TO SELL 'EM LEGALLY PEOPLE!.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

arybvtcw0eolkf

ziggy67 wrote:

Sorry Mr Attorney General i thought you were some random dude posting an opinion!

Care to post a link or something to prove your right?

Ok then. Let our minister for trade negotiate a deal with Afghanistan and Columbia for better prices on smack and coke shall we?.

Or maybe with our UNIFIL influence in Lebanon we might get a 'special' on some nice 'red leb' from the Bekaa Valley!.

'Come on, cope on.... ***pretty please***

Backtoblack

ziggy67 wrote:

Sorry Mr Attorney General i thought you were some random dude posting an opinion!

Care to post a link or something to prove your right?

its called illegal trafficing all over europe (see eu directives - and therefore Irish law)...
Have a quick peek on google for yourself and check out the laws across the entire world and you will see that you will be proved incorrect fairly swiftly.

Anyway, I dont think i'll hang around for an answer to be honest.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

arybvtcw0eolkf

Backtoblack wrote:

Anyway, I dont think i'll hang around for an answer to be honest.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Yea, wouldn't bother...heading to the sack me'self.

Backtoblack

Mairt wrote:

Yea, wouldn't bother...heading to the sack me'self.

Sleep well!
Good night.

hellboy99

Chill out guys, get the Bob Marley on

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

ciarsd

Jeeezzz....

I thought the topic of this thread was "Crime out of control in this country", more like "replies out of control in this thread".

seamus

Personally, I think tougher laws on cocaine possession and use would help cripple the drug dealers quite significantly. A lot of these people's power comes from the "trendiness" of cocaine, and the volume of this crap shoved down the noses of idiotic young professionals and upper-class kids. Threaten these people with the very real threat of jail time, and the demand will slump.

Our man in Havana

I don't think that would deter the addicts.

Sangre

Backtoblack wrote:

its called illegal trafficing all over europe (see eu directives - and therefore Irish law)...
Have a quick peek on google for yourself and check out the laws across the entire world and you will see that you will be proved incorrect fairly swiftly.

Anyway, I dont think i'll hang around for an answer to be honest.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Hmm, thats funny. I could have sworn the Netherlands were in the EU.

Von Manstein

Guns isnt the issue here. I think thats soimething we can all agree on. My own opinion of the guards is very low. I know many people - very nice, law abiding people - who would ring the guards and no one would come to bother responding.

An incident springs to mind there earlier on this year, in which a man i know of, saw some kids spraying graffiti on his front wall. He confronts them. They leg it, but he manages to grab hold of one of them. Didn't hurt him or anything just said the usual few words.

So, he goes back to his house and 10 minutes later he hears a knock a t the door. He answers and gets a punch in the face from the mitchell brothers. His family are in the hall screaming as he's being beaten up. It ends with them pulling him in and jamming a press behind the front door. The guys then proceeded to smash his car up in the driveway....

The gurads never bothered to come. They didnt care. In fact the wife of this man had previously been on the local commuinity group on fighting crime in the area and she pretty much knew the routine. The superintendent had tolded her himself that calls from 'certain areas' went pretty much unanswered (especially if a midde class area needed the car instead )

I myself live in one of 'those areas' and i'm a decent guy. Unfortunately, my family, like many other decent families have to live in Council areas. It's either that or the street. I've never done a bad thing in my life. Nice to know trhe guards don't give a damm about me :P

arybvtcw0eolkf

Von Manstein, like you I have a very low opinion of the police, gained from experience. IMO their mostly lazy, incompetent 'couldn't give a ****' tosser's.

But I don't think thats why gun crime is out of control in this city.

From listening to Paul William's (Sunday World) its a combination of bad law, weak government, bad judges, under sourced guards, bad planning.... And a different culture among Irelands underworld compared to ten year's ago.

hellboy99

Anonther Post office raided today, it's gone out of hand.

Minister for Justice claimed today that dangerous criminals are being released on bail by soft judges, has it only took him until now to realise that :rolleyes: . It's about time that life ment life when it comes to a sentence.

gurramok

Somebody put up www.dublincrime.com , lists all the murders in the capital since 2004 in a map format, grim reading.
As i live in a similar area to Von Manstein, these latest batch of gangs graduated from rampant petty crime in late 90's to major villains today.

I'm not talking about a dozen or so people, there are literally hundreds all over dublin involved (upto 50 in my local area alone).

Paul Williams is right in a way, its a problem that has many factors that have been ignored for donkey years.

BigEejit

As has been mentioned, there are many factors .... but a lot of it is down to judges who are too lenient .... and prison time is too easy.

Of course inconstinency in sentencing does not help, some judges (Patwell in Mallow) will give you the maximum whereas most others give the least.

Suspended sentences are given out far far too often, and IMO should never be given to repeat offenders.

Backtoblack

Sangre wrote:

Hmm, thats funny. I could have sworn the Netherlands were in the EU.

ah in fairness you know what i mean..
The whole drugs arguement, in particular, the one about hash, is so lame.
I heard some hash-head on the Matt Cooper show one evening saying that "we have receptors in our brains especially for 'hash' and so therefore we should smoke" - I mean, yeah, we have receptors in our brains too for things like posion or LSD or whatever else - it doesn't make it good for you.


Crime is out of control in this country, but legalizing drugs will not help the cause in my opinon - We'll have appeals cases to let every thug in jail out because €2 million herion deals aren't illegal anymore. They get out and they can push drugs on every kid in the country legally. How does that make sense to ziggy?? how like???

fulofh20

The good thing about the police force here is that because it's not as advanced as other nations, you can collectively learn the good points and apply them to you from other nations.
Carrying weapons is a bad idea, I believe that there are nutters in every job and why should a gard be any different? However I believe they should be entitled for warrents that let them take ammo and guns to a scene of a specific crime.
Drugs are run by scum. Drugs are taken by ordinary people who's brain chemistry likes the effect of drugs and the relationship between the latter and the drug dealer is really the fact drug dealers are making money out of human vulnerability--chemical dependence.
So many people can related to addiction of something. Our society has a drinking culture out of control and also I feel a drug culture.
The pharmaceuticals should become involved into finding a way of manufacturing a legal drug that's as effective as any other yet legal. I'm afraid as long as there's drugs out there, they will be bought. So why not legalise drugs in certain amounts and treat them as choice in small amounts. That will surely disrupt the power of drug dealers and control our drug problem to a degree.
If there was legalisation of prostitution in the Uk, maybe the prostitutes who were murdered would have had some body protection like Amsterdam prostitutes and also if drugs combatted differently it would benifit.

I'm afraid many problems come from the fact that a nanny state doesn't accept that if you tell a child not to do something, they don't always obey you for simple to understand reasons. So why warn and condemn drugs if they are enevitably going to be abused? Why not control them, and put scum out of power?

mike65

gurramok wrote:

Somebody put up www.dublincrime.com , lists all the murders in the capital since 2004 in a map format, grim reading.

Intersting site, break the murdered down by age and nearly half the dead turn out to be 25 years old or younger.

Mike.

gurramok

mike65 wrote:

Intersting site, break the murdered down by age and nearly half the dead turn out to be 25 years old or younger.

Mike.

I was talkin to my mates the other day and the general agreement is that there is something wrong with a minority of the circa 25yr old generation, its as if they were raised with no conscience on what the damage they can do.
From brawling in the street where they can kill someone with a punch to pulling the trigger, they just dont care what they do.
Several years ago when we were at their age, sh1t like above was just not as common, people respected each other more.
Maybe too much teminator or WWF influenced them too much on growing up

Anyway, seriously..if drugs were legalised and controlled, the gangs will move onto something else just as lucrative, a bit of policing on their freedoms will help deter them for a start.

shane86

mike65 wrote:

Intersting site, break the murdered down by age and nearly half the dead turn out to be 25 years old or younger.

Mike.

Hey, I can see my house!

dublincrime.com , im sure Bord Failte must love it

monument

Crime is spiralling out of control and if somebody doesn’t do something about it… oh, no, sorry I mean fear and bull **** is out of control….

For over 20 years now, what is known as ‘headline crime’ has remained around the 100,000 level, or a bit below that. Some years, it has veered above it; some years, it has gone down to the low 80,000s, but it has been around the same level.

The number of murders has gone up, but from a very low level.

For the last few years, there has been, on average, one murder a week. This is terrible for the victims and for their families and friends but, compared with other countries, Ireland’s murder rate is low.

….

Crime hysteria is whipped up by politicians and the media - politicians because they hope to heighten alarm over crime, thereby discomfiting political opponents. In the case of the media, it is because crime is box office.

The more crime can be hyped, the more newspapers are sold, the more radio is listened to and television watched. RTE is probably the worst offender in the hyping of crime, but nobody seems to mind.

But hyping crime creates a political momentum for making our society an even nastier place than it is, for more draconian legislation, for more jails and longer jail terms. Because the official perception of crime is hugely partial, this amounts to yet another assault on the poor and vulnerable.

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2006/11/26/story19131.asp

Let's not let facts get in the way!

seamus wrote:

Personally, I think tougher laws on cocaine possession and use would help cripple the drug dealers quite significantly. A lot of these people's power comes from the "trendiness" of cocaine, and the volume of this crap shoved down the noses of idiotic young professionals and upper-class kids. Threaten these people with the very real threat of jail time, and the demand will slump.

The threat of "very real threat of jail time" is useless unless it can be backed by enforcement, which I’m sure you know it realistically can’t.

The fear of getting caught is a more important factor at any level of crime, unless the perpetrator is insane or something.

Backtoblack wrote:

its called illegal trafficing all over europe (see eu directives - and therefore Irish law)...

It’s time to invade the Netherlands for acting as an independent state. How fcuking dare they!

Backtoblack wrote:

ah in fairness you know what i mean..
The whole drugs arguement, in particular, the one about hash, is so lame.
I heard some hash-head on the Matt Cooper show one evening saying that "we have receptors in our brains especially for 'hash' and so therefore we should smoke" - I mean, yeah, we have receptors in our brains too for things like posion or LSD or whatever else - it doesn't make it good for you.

In fairness, you can use that retort on the person who used that argument, try to focus on the ideas presented here, and not somebody whose words you’re giving us just a small bit of.

Backtoblack wrote:

Crime is out of control in this country,

Can you back that up?

Backtoblack wrote:

but legalizing drugs will not help the cause in my opinon - We'll have appeals cases to let every thug in jail out because €2 million herion deals aren't illegal anymore. They get out and they can push drugs on every kid in the country legally. How does that make sense to ziggy?? how like???

I’d imagine there’d be strict laws governing who can sell drugs legally, along with where and how they can be sold, imported, etc. So, “every thug in jail” for drug offences would still have broken the law and if they sell drugs again they would be still doing so.

Backtoblack

monument wrote:

Crime is spiralling out of control and if somebody doesn’t do something about it… oh, no, sorry I mean fear and bull **** is out of control….



Let's not let facts get in the way!




The threat of "very real threat of jail time" is useless unless it can be backed by enforcement, which I’m sure you know it realistically can’t.

The fear of getting caught is a more important factor at any level of crime, unless the perpetrator is insane or something.




It’s time to invade the Netherlands for acting as an independent state. How fcuking dare they!




In fairness, you can use that retort on the person who used that argument, try to focus on the ideas presented here, and not somebody whose words you’re giving us just a small bit of.




Can you back that up?




I’d imagine there’d be strict laws governing who can sell drugs legally, along with where and how they can be sold, imported, etc. So, “every thug in jail” for drug offences would still have broken the law and if they sell drugs again they would be still doing so.

:rolleyes:

Sangre

Thats some well-thought out, well researched comments backtoblack. Although what can i expect, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Any more Eu directives you'd like to make up? Any facts to back up your opinions? Oh but wait the SUN said!

Hes right, the amount of 'facts' spouted on this thread have been disproven by studies dozens of times. The murder rate in Ireland is about a quarter of what it was 200 years ago, its still all gravy.

Backtoblack

Sangre wrote:

Thats some well-thought out, well researched comments backtoblack. Although what can i expect, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Any more Eu directives you'd like to make up? Any facts to back up your opinions? Oh but wait the SUN said!

Hes right, the amount of 'facts' spouted on this thread have been disproven by studies dozens of times. The murder rate in Ireland is about a quarter of what it was 200 years ago, its still all gravy.

no Sangre. I don't read tabloids. I read the Sunday times every sunday (all of it except the sports section and usually not the home section either.) I read a lot of books and watch prime-time and questions & answers without fail every week.
I'm just so so bored with the drugs arguement.

Drugs are baad....mmmkay.

IMO the only solution to increase the sentences for all drug offences.
I know some people can smoke hash without getting ill effects but not all (and i know this from personal/family experience). But I would legalise it i guess, considering that alcohol is legal and the effects of alcohol are blatently obvious, from self abuse, to drunk driving etc etc etc.

With regards the crime rate in Ireland. I honestly don't know the figures and Ive too much to do at the moment to argue with you.. But do you think its acceptable to have a man shot dead in the IFSC in Dublin during the week at 9pm? Do you think its normal?
If you had kids would you like for them to think that this sort of a society is ok?
What exactly are you recommending or giving out about here with regards to the posts on this thread? I want something to be done now so that I don't have to worry from now on about walking home alone from the IFSC (I work there)and to be able to feel that I am safe at least to a degree.
You seem to think that you know best about this but where is your link about your point and your back up about what you think should be done about it? Or is it that you think, this is acceptable and so what, crime has always been around?
I'm doing a 10km run tomorrow so I have to go to sleep now, but maybe you are not as all-knowing as you think are ... I don't claim to have the perfect solution or to be an expert in the area. I am shocked though and a bit frightened that a man was shot dead in the IFSC (and other murders) and I would like to know that the government and police force are upping the numbers on the "beat" and are taking this as seriously as I am and many many others are, used to normal society.

:rolleyes:

Sangre

Backtoblack wrote:

no Sangre. I don't read tabloids. I read the Sunday times every sunday (all of it except the sports section and usually not the home section either.) I read a lot of books and watch prime-time and questions & answers without fail every week.
I'm just so so bored with the drugs arguement.

Drugs are baad....mmmkay.

IMO the only solution to increase the sentences for all drug offences.
I know some people can smoke hash without getting ill effects but not all (and i know this from personal/family experience). But I would legalise it i guess, considering that alcohol is legal and the effects of alcohol are blatently obvious, from self abuse, to drunk driving etc etc etc.

With regards the crime rate in Ireland. I honestly don't know the figures and Ive too much to do at the moment to argue with you.. But do you think its acceptable to have a man shot dead in the IFSC in Dublin during the week at 9pm? Do you think its normal?
If you had kids would you like for them to think that this sort of a society is ok?
What exactly are you recommending or giving out about here with regards to the posts on this thread? I want something to be done now so that I don't have to worry from now on about walking home alone from the IFSC (I work there)and to be able to feel that I am safe at least to a degree.
You seem to think that you know best about this but where is your link about your point and your back up about what you think should be done about it? Or is it that you think, this is acceptable and so what, crime has always been around?
I'm doing a 10km run tomorrow so I have to go to sleep now, but maybe you are not as all-knowing as you think are ... I don't claim to have the perfect solution or to be an expert in the area. I am shocked though and a bit frightened that a man was shot dead in the IFSC (and other murders) and I would like to know that the government and police force are upping the numbers on the "beat" and are taking this as seriously as I am and many many others are, used to normal society.

:rolleyes:

Why do you think icnreased sentences for drugs will reduce murders? The only reason their are drugs gangs are because they are legal, longer sentences changes nothing. It may (but probably not) reduce their base but it won't change the fact it is still a massive money maker.

I don't have problem with suggestion. I have a problem with hysteria and political fuelled panic. People are constantly mis-stating the reality of Ireland, that it is a relatively safe country. Unless these type of murders increased rapidly for at least a year or two I'm going to consider it a blip in a relatively stable murder rate for the last 2 decades (although while increasing so is our population).

Of course its an unacceptable reality, but its a reality nonetheless. The only thing prohbition does imo is make the criminals rich.

I've already proposed my solution to the crime problem in Ireland, tackle poverty and improved education. Its hardly a coincidence that Foxrock isn't over-run with murderers.

Oh, yeah and my final point:

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Backtoblack

Sangre wrote:

Why do you think icnreased sentences for drugs will reduce murders? The only reason their are drugs gangs are because they are legal, longer sentences changes nothing. It may (but probably not) reduce their base but it won't change the fact it is still a massive money maker.

I don't have problem with suggestion. I have a problem with hysteria and political fuelled panic. People are constantly mis-stating the reality of Ireland, that it is a relatively safe country. Unless these type of murders increased rapidly for at least a year or two I'm going to consider it a blip in a relatively stable murder rate for the last 2 decades (although while increasing so is our population).

Of course its an unacceptable reality, but its a reality nonetheless. The only thing prohbition does imo is make the criminals rich.

I've already proposed my solution to the crime problem in Ireland, tackle poverty and improved education. Its hardly a coincidence that Foxrock isn't over-run with murderers.

Oh, yeah and my final point:

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I have to go to bed unfortunately now but you shouldn't totally dismiss the concerns of the general public either.
I would like to see the stats of what you are saying about crime not having gone up in a few years .... link??
Haven't the amount of drugs "captured" gone up??
Fox rock isn't over run with murders ? I'm sure there are a few very rich people living there that have made their money and not paid any tax so to speak. Its a vicous circle alright but there are ways out of it. If kids are hooked on heroin before they are 15 how are they ever even to get a chance to get out? There have been improvements too due to government intervention - taking control of property/goods of drug/arms dealers etc.

Anyway, better go. Good night.
D

Sangre

Most crime stats can't be compared as the Garda switched to the PULSE syste in about 2002 changing the headings/definitions of crimes. I don't have any onlines at hand, anything I'd have would be from reports/journals.

From the rest of your post...I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Maybe you do need to go to bed.