Does the Goverment run background checks on non-nationals?

shane86

peasant wrote:

Leaving aside the doubtful assumption that the influx of "non-nationals" somehow increases overall crime figures ...how does anyone actually propose that these "background checks" be carried out?

I'm pretty sure that once an individual comes to the attention of the police that their background is checked out, be they Irish or otherwise.

LOL Go on, tell us another one.

They dont contribute to overall crime figures? If there are 56 murders commited by Irish people and say 5 commited by foreigners, you dont believe that contributes? This is a legitimate question, but are you stupid? Im not abusing you, I just want you to reflect on what you said, and then leave the debate seeing as the only thing you are adding is a lunatic edge.

peasant

Let me re-phrase then ...

"leaving aside the doubtful assumption that the influx of "non nationals" DISPROPORTIONALLY increases overall crime figures ...etc pp"

...and if you don't mind, I will join and leave debates as I bloody well please and not as it suits you

DonJose

If Ireland and the UK can share information on sex offenders, why can't this be implemented across the other european states. I have no problem with honest workers arriving in the state, the fact that convicted murderers, rapists, and paedophiles can enter the state just as easy worries me.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1127/sexoffenders.html

Ruu_Old

Second time I've said this, stick to the topic or post elsewhere. This isn't about crime in Ireland relating to non nationals, thats for another thread in the appropiate forum of course. Last chance.
From what peasant said, ...how does anyone actually propose that these "background checks" be carried out?

robinph

Ruu wrote:

From what peasant said, ...how does anyone actually propose that these "background checks" be carried out?

Close the borders and don't let anyone in or out.

shane86

Ruu wrote:

From what peasant said, ...how does anyone actually propose that these "background checks" be carried out?

The same way that the likes of schools, banks and other fiancial services here would (I hope) do it. Perhaps the same way the US has restricted who gets Visas from day zero.

Now, someone hand me my trophy for "Stating the Feckin Obvious"

Dyr

ambro25 wrote:

, "they are bringing all sorts of diseases" (that one particularly made me laugh!), etc, etc.

Indeed, It's hilarious that people would think the resurgence of TB in this country could have ANYTHING to do with an influx of large numbers of people from countries where TB is a major problem. Why you'd have to be a goose stepping nazi to think like that. I ROFL at the very thought

Fratton Fred

robinph wrote:

Close the borders and don't let anyone in or out.

I think that is the crux of the issue. You can’t put in place “Background checks” without putting in place border controls which is contrary to EU policy. It would also mean putting border control in place between Northern Ireland and the ROI and moving all UK/Ireland flights to international flight status (which at the moment they are not considered to be) and putting passport and immigration control in at Rosslare, Cork and Dublin ports.

While you’re at it, why not mark all “Non-Nationals” maybe even give them a little tattoo on their wrist, you could even include a symbol to identify their religious beliefs, maybe a little star for jews etc.

Then, once a murder is committed by someone who is believed to be a “Non-National” , all those “Non Nationals” could be rounded up and put in large camps until we find the culprit, if no one owns up, how about gassing a few, they are, after all only immigrants who have no right to be here in the first place.

If we have trouble “Outing” these foreigners, I’m sure the locals could be encouraged to rat on their neighbours and I’m positive the youth could be drafted in to help, maybe setup a National youth organisation to help improve our social situation, maybe call them the National Socialists and they could hold annual rallies in Croke Park and be obliged to read copies of moin fecking campf.

As for the Poles, well, there is only one way to stop them coming here and that is to invade their country, followed by Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania and then onto Russia.

This could work, all we need is a leader with a small funny looking moustache that goes by the name “Ardel O’Hitler”.
:mad: :mad: :mad:

Dyr

Fratton Fred wrote:

I think that is the crux of the issue. You can’t put in place “Background checks” without putting in place border controls which is contrary to EU policy. It would also mean putting border control in place between Northern Ireland and the ROI and moving all UK/Ireland flights to international flight status (which at the moment they are not considered to be) and putting passport and immigration control in at Rosslare, Cork and Dublin ports.

While you’re at it, why not mark all “Non-Nationals” maybe even give them a little tattoo on their wrist, you could even include a symbol to identify their religious beliefs, maybe a little star for jews etc.

Then, once a murder is committed by someone who is believed to be a “Non-National” , all those “Non Nationals” could be rounded up and put in large camps until we find the culprit, if no one owns up, how about gassing a few, they are, after all only immigrants who have no right to be here in the first place.

If we have trouble “Outing” these foreigners, I’m sure the locals could be encouraged to rat on their neighbours and I’m positive the youth could be drafted in to help, maybe setup a National youth organisation to help improve our social situation, maybe call them the National Socialists and they could hold annual rallies in Croke Park and be obliged to read copies of moin fecking campf.

As for the Poles, well, there is only one way to stop them coming here and that is to invade their country, followed by Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania and then onto Russia.

This could work, all we need is a leader with a small funny looking moustache that goes by the name “Ardel O’Hitler”.
:mad: :mad: :mad:

lol thats a lovely straw man, did it take long to build?

anywhoo in relation to the original question i think we've established that "do they f**k" is the correct answer.

Fratton Fred

Bambi wrote:

lol thats a lovely straw man, did it take long to build?

anywhoo in relation to the original question i think we've established that "do they f**k" is the correct answer.

or feck all more than any other country

The goold old US of A have got it sussed though, they give you a questionaire which asks if you are a terrorist. Genius:D

shane86

Can we make deliberately talking waffle in debates a bannable offence? If someone mentions death camps and yellow stars Fratton Fred, comment away. Otherwise quit with outlandish rants that make you sound like a PC version of Alan Partridge. The OP was querying if checks were done. It went into a related debate, where people gave reasons as to why they did/didnt want to see them done, with examples (come on Ruu, its like someone starting a thread in football "I think Roy Keane was Irelands greatest player" and someone accused of going off topic by saying "He was a legend but Paul McGrath was always my favourite").

thelordofcheese

Fratton Fred wrote:

or feck all more than any other country

The goold old US of A have got it sussed though, they give you a questionaire which asks if you are a terrorist. Genius:D

I've always wondered how many people have they ever caught using that stellar method.

Am i a terrorist? hmmm...ye...no! almost got me. ohh, those crafty american devils.

Fratton Fred

shane86 wrote:

Can we make deliberately talking waffle in debates a bannable offence? If someone mentions death camps and yellow stars Fratton Fred, comment away. Otherwise quit with outlandish rants that make you sound like a PC version of Alan Partridge. The OP was querying if checks were done. It went into a related debate, where people gave reasons as to why they did/didnt want to see them done, with examples (come on Ruu, its like someone starting a thread in football "I think Roy Keane was Irelands greatest player" and someone accused of going off topic by saying "He was a legend but Paul McGrath was always my favourite").

My "Rant" was an attempt at showing how pathetic some of the arguements are. Apologies if it was a bit long, I kind of got on a roll.

I'll apoloise for the length of the post, but that is all.

Fratton Fred

shane86 wrote:

Can we make deliberately talking waffle in debates a bannable offence? If someone mentions death camps and yellow stars Fratton Fred, comment away. Otherwise quit with outlandish rants that make you sound like a PC version of Alan Partridge. The OP was querying if checks were done. It went into a related debate, where people gave reasons as to why they did/didnt want to see them done, with examples (come on Ruu, its like someone starting a thread in football "I think Roy Keane was Irelands greatest player" and someone accused of going off topic by saying "He was a legend but Paul McGrath was always my favourite").

oh, one more thing, in two of your last three posts, you have called someone stupid and asked them to leave the debate and asked for me to be banned.

I suggest you think about that and ask yourself why it is you have no friends.:rolleyes:

shane86

No friends? :rolleyes: Well, Ive one from Nigeria, Syria and one from Tunisia as it happens. I would list the names of all my Irish friends but its a bit too Alan Partridge (again) for my liking

"Ill bet Ive more friends than you have cattle. How many animals do you have"
"Oh this is ridicilous"
"how many?!?"
"Ive got 100 cows"
"Yeah, well Ive got 104 friends"

Raekwon

Fratton Fred wrote:

The way I see it, you are either n the EU or you’re not.

Freedom of movement is one of the fundamental rights under the EU constitution, so there is nothing you can do about it. If Ireland doesn’t want all these “Non-Nationals” then it will have to leave the EU, but they may have to repay the €54bn it has taken from it first.

Bit harsh ^^^ but instead of looking at it from a non-Irish perspective, how about looking at it from a different angle? If you preach; 'You are either EU or not', then why doesn't Poland or any of the other 'newer' EU counties (excluding Slovakia) open their boarders to Romania & Bulgaria? Will Poland be happy if huge countries like Ukraine & Turkey join the EU (possibly 2015). Will they welcome newer, under-developed 'EU' countries into their own countries with open arms?

Fratton Fred

Raekwon wrote:

Bit harsh ^^^ but instead of looking at it from a non-Irish perspective, how about looking at it from a different angle? If you preach; 'You are either EU or not', then why doesn't Poland or any of the other 'newer' EU counties (excluding Slovakia) open their boarders to Romania & Bulgaria? Will Poland be happy if huge countries like Ukraine & Turkey join the EU (possibly 2015). Will they welcome newer, under-developed 'EU' countries into their own countries with open arms?

or should the question be, if countries are not prepared to open their borders to these countries, should they be granted entry to the EU in the first place?

from what I understand of it, the main objection is the level of corruption and organised crime in these countries. If that is the case, then they should sort their countries out before joining the EU club.

Ruu_Old

shane86 wrote:

Can we make deliberately talking waffle in debates a bannable offence? If someone mentions death camps and yellow stars Fratton Fred, comment away. Otherwise quit with outlandish rants that make you sound like a PC version of Alan Partridge. The OP was querying if checks were done. It went into a related debate, where people gave reasons as to why they did/didnt want to see them done, with examples (come on Ruu, its like someone starting a thread in football "I think Roy Keane was Irelands greatest player" and someone accused of going off topic by saying "He was a legend but Paul McGrath was always my favourite").

Debate is fine, bullshiet comments and throwing in something about how many non nationals contribute to crime are not, it just attracts more flies to the shiet. You know it and I know it. Carry on please. PM if you want to discuss it further.

Raekwon

Fratton Fred wrote:

or should the question be, if countries are not prepared to open their borders to these countries, should they be granted entry to the EU in the first place.

I know that the European commission imposed its toughest restrictions to force them to intensify their fight against crime and corruption, in other words, if there is no satisfactory improvement in the near future then they are both out. But that is besides the point.

My question was will other EU countries (I take Poland as an example) take a leaf from Ireland's book and open their boarders to new EU states in the near future? Or is it all take and no give?

Fratton Fred

Raekwon wrote:

I know that the European commission imposed its toughest restrictions to force them to intensify their fight against crime and corruption, in other words, if there is no satisfactory improvement in the near future then they are both out. But that is besides the point.

My question was will other EU countries (I take Poland as an example) take a leaf from Ireland's book and open their boarders to new EU states in the near future? Or is it all take and no give?

Only time will tell I guess, I know that non Polish nationals are not currently permitted to buy property there so who knows.

I guess that is the same debate we are having here though. Ireland was the poor man of Europe, but vast amounts of EU funding has helped make Ireland a prosperous nation, which is why the level of immigration is so high.

I understand that there is now a skills shortage in Poland, so logic would say that Romanians and Bulgarians will be making up the short fall.

One thing is for sure, it could certainly mess up the voting for the eurovision song contest.

peasant

Raekwon wrote:

I know that the European commission imposed its toughest restrictions to force them to intensify their fight against crime and corruption, in other words, if there is no satisfactory improvement in the near future then they are both out. But that is besides the point.

My question was will other EU countries (I take Poland as an example) take a leaf from Ireland's book and open their boarders to new EU states in the near future? Or is it all take and no give?

When Poland and the other former Eastern Block states joined the EU, most "old" Eu countries imposed restrictions on the free movement of workers.
Notably such countries like Germany, Poland's direct neighbour, who also battles with an unemployment rate of 10%.

Ireland didn't!

But not out of the goodness of her heart or in rememberance of the thousands of emmigrants that had to "flee" Ireland.

The Irish economy simply needed more workers to build more houses and eventually rent and then buy said houses. Otherwise it would have collapsed quite a while ago.

So it seems that there are provisions within EU treaties that allow for certain economic restrictions to be put in place.

If Poland (with an unemployment rate of 20%) decides to close its labour market to further EU workers, it seems to be quite within its right to do so.

DonJose

peasant wrote:

If Poland (with an unemployment rate of 20%) decides to close its labour market to further EU workers, it seems to be quite within its right to do so.

Polands unemployment rate is less than 15%.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/11/07/business/EU_FIN_ECO_Poland_Unemployment.php

Raekwon

Fratton Fred wrote:

One thing is for sure, it could certainly mess up the voting for the eurovision song contest.

True!

peasant wrote:

If Poland (with an unemployment rate of 20%) decides to close its labour market to further EU workers, it seems to be quite within its right to do so.

I know all this, I was referring to the future, when Poland (for example) are in a much stronger economic position.

My whole point is, if any of the Eastern European countries were in Ireland's position, and there was a major influx of forgein labour, would 'non national's' in these countries be treated the same or even worse then they are being in Ireland?

Btw, Slovakia have an unemployment rate of 16.5 but that didn't stop them from opening their boarders to Romania and Bulgaria.

Alun

peasant wrote:

So it seems that there are provisions within EU treaties that allow for certain economic restrictions to be put in place.

If Poland (with an unemployment rate of 20%) decides to close its labour market to further EU workers, it seems to be quite within its right to do so.

I'm not sure this can be done retrospectively though. There were special provisions made to allow some EU member states to restrict workers from the new member states for a certain period of time, but my understanding is that eventually everyone will have to allow them in. I can't see member states unilaterally deciding to close their labour market to another member state going down too well somehow. Think retaliation.

peasant

Alun wrote:

I'm not sure this can be done retrospectively though. There were special provisions made to allow some EU member states to restrict workers from the new member states for a certain period of time, but my understanding is that eventually everyone will have to allow them in. I can't see member states unilaterally deciding to close their labour market to another member state going down too well somehow. Think retaliation.

I didn't mean retrospectively.
I'm no expert on EU law, but there seems to be a possibility for existing members to restrict acces on a limited basis for workers from new members BEFORE these actually join the EU. I believe that's what Poland has done in the case of Romania and Bulgaria.

Doing it retrospectively would be "interesting" alright, to say the least

DonJose

Ireland and the UK have signed an agreement aimed at improving the sharing of information on sex offenders.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1127/sexoffenders.html

I wonder if a background check on the following scumbag would produce any prior convictions

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1128/skerries.html

ambro25

I don't see the issue anyway (as a non-national). I've been thoroughly background-checked by the French equivalent of UK's MI5 in my own country, because of my sensitive posting during my National Service. Didn't hurt my "liberties" one bit, so how bad can an Irish check be? (mind you...come to think of it...unless they f*ck it up of course, like everything else )

This debate is just like the "National ID Card" debate (in the UK, not so sure the same rages here): if you've got nothing to hide, what is the problem? In what way would your "liberties" be curtailed? Banks and other such commercial entities, which are potentially very much more influential upon your daily life, already have much more data about you than to be comfortable with, so what's a GVT background check (on non-nationals or nationals) going to change?

peasant

ambro25 wrote:

I've been thoroughly background-checked by the French equivalent of UK's MI5 in my own country, because of my sensitive posting during my National Service.

So that makes two former "top security clearance" soldiers on boards. (me too )

Do you take your Martini shaken or stirred?

ambro25

peasant wrote:

Do you take your Martini shaken or stirred?

I don't, I play the bad guy and do the oppressing, now that civic duties have been discharged and I know all their secrets!