Does the Goverment run background checks on non-nationals?

sceptre

IzzyWizzy wrote:

I HATE the term 'non national' as well, it's really grating. I've never heard it used anywhere but in Ireland.

I don't 'hate' it but it's rather imprecise. Foreign national or non-Irish national would be better. Heck, even "bloody foreigner" would be more accurate.

rb_ie wrote:

Don't ask Michael Richards anyway...

Heh.

Hobbes

rb_ie if your not going to stay on topic get the fuk off the thread. If you want to continue on your tirade I suggest stormfront.

Rb

Hobbes wrote:

rb_ie if your not going to stay on topic get the fuk off the thread. If you want to continue on your tirade I suggest stormfront.

rb_ie wrote:

On topic: I would sincerely hope that "asylum" seekers are screened, though I doubt its very thorough. That said, when criminals want to enter a country, they're going to do it somehow be it with fake passports/other documents etc. making background checks somewhat more difficult.

Hobbes: You're not a moderator of AH so don't try and issue AH mod orders, k buddy? This thread has swung back on topic, so no need for any more off topic "orders" from the non-AH mod, thanks!

I'm also in no way associated with those ignorant b*stards btw and I'll ask you to please refrain from insinuating that I am. Thanks again!

sceptre wrote:

Foreign national or non-Irish national would be better. Heck, even "bloody foreigner" would be more accurate

Foreign national would be the most used term I'd expect? I haven't heard "non national" used much myself tbh but obviously it is a somewhat used term.
Tbh, the most used informal term is "immigrant/foreigner", or at least from what I've seen it is, or perhaps "immigrants/foreigners" for the plural.

Though, when referring to someone in a singular sense I think most people just refer to others by their race.

robinph

DonJose wrote:

Considering there are hundreds of thousands of non-nationals living in Ireland, both immirant workers and asylum seekers, I was just wondering if the government ran background checks on immigrants arriving in Ireland?

Lets not get carried away with the numbers here. Whilst you are numerically correct in saying there are 'hundreds of thousands' of non-irish living in Ireland it is only just over 200,000 the majority of who are from the nice acceptable parts of Europe that we don't object to.

Population by nationality

InFront wrote:

There are something in the region of a quarter of a million Poles here alone. Get real.

Yes, please "get real" and stop making up numbers. There is no way that there has been 248,000 Poles moved over to Ireland in the last four years since 2002.

Rb

robinph wrote:

Lets not get carried away with the numbers here. Whilst you are numerically correct in saying there are 'hundreds of thousands' of non-irish living in Ireland it is only just over 200,000 the majority of who are from the nice acceptable parts of Europe that we don't object to.

Population by nationality

The census was done this year wasn't it?iirc...
It'll be interesting to compare the numbers in 2002 to the numbers in 2006. As can be expected there will be an increase but it'll certainly prove interesting to see the breakdown.

482 people had "no nationality" in 2002...odd...

I agree though, theres no way 248K people hopped over from Poland in the last 4 years!

DonJose

robinph wrote:

Whilst you are numerically correct in saying there are 'hundreds of thousands' of non-irish living in Ireland it is only just over 200,000 the majority of who are from the nice acceptable parts of Europe that we don't object to.

I would put the number of non-Irish living in Ireland at more than 400,000, I would go as far as 500,000.

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=199604556&p=y996x5z6z

"Although around 400,000 of the population are non-Irish nationals, asylum applications fell by 9% to 4,323."

160,000 PPS number were issued to non-Irish between May 2004/March 2006. Thats 7,000+ recorded non-Irish entering Ireland each month. How many enter Ireland without obtaining PPS numbers. I'd put the figure at 10,000 new arrivals each month.

http://ec.europa.eu/ireland/press_office/speeches-press_releases/migrationspeech1_en.htm

"In the period since May 2004 over 160,000 PPS numbers have been issued to EU-10 nationals. Tax revenue data indicates that about 70 per cent of these entered Ireland’s labour force at some stage. Of the PPS numbers issued, over 50 per cent were issued to Polish nationals and 20 per cent to Lithuanian nationals."

Did you see the David McWilliams program "In search of the popes children". The chinese guy reckons there are 100,000 chinese living in Ireland. The census will have statistics for these people as most are here on "extended student visas".

http://www.marketing.ie/apr06/article1.htm

"Late last year, Tiao Wang ("looking forward with vision") was launched for the estimated 135,000 Chinese people living in Ireland."

MrJoeSoap

rb_ie wrote:

Lol, what about the Romanian who used to (she wasn't there last time I was down anyway) sit with her amputated foot foot out in clear view begging on Patrick St. ?!

I'm sure they can, but as Ireland is one of the best off countries in Europe, they'll make more begging here...the f*cking sponges.

Sponges? Because they have to sit on the side of a street and beg for a living? They should be so lucky. Count yourself fortunate you have been born into wealth.

rb_ie wrote:

I know what you mean though, I've absolutely no problem with them coming over as long as they're going to work, we don't need any more beggers/homeless on our streets.

No we don't, but the saying "out of sight, out of mind" springs to mind here.

rb_ie wrote:

We also don't need any more drug dealers, gangs etc. in this country but yet we're allowing more and more to waltz through our borders day in day out.

I enjoy your style of writing. I'm sure these people "waltz" through Dublin airport. :rolleyes:

rb_ie wrote:

At least the EU has is going to put restrictions on Romanian emigration when they receive their EU membership

Ah yes, institutional racism.

rb_ie wrote:

I'm sure there are lovely Romanians, but the vast majority that I've come across in Ireland, England, Greece etc. have been beggers or criminals, God only knows what would happen if they were allowed complete freedom into any country in Europe!

You make it sound like the "lovely Romanians" are a minority of the population. How many Romanians have you talked to? How can you tell these 'beggars or criminals' are Romanian?

DonJose

http://www.cso.ie/census/documents/2006PreliminaryReport.pdf

"The number of non-Irish nationals enumerated as part of the 2002 census was 222,000, representing 5.8 per cent of the usually resident population. While the corresponding figure for 2006 will have to await the publication of the Principal Demographic Results in April 2007, it can be tentatively estimated from the derived flow data on migration that the stock of non-Irish nationals is likely to be about 400,000."

Rb

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Sponges? Because they have to sit on the side of a street and beg for a living? They should be so lucky. Count yourself fortunate you have been born into wealth.

The sponges comment was in relation to The Scientists question regarding whether they could do it on the streets of their own countries, which obviously they could. Basically what I was saying was that they're coming over here to beg and capitalize on our economic boom (i.e everyone has more money therefore they'll make more begging here), hence my usage of the term "sponge/sponging".
We also have plenty of jobs available, why aren't these people doing what the vast majority are doing and coming here to work?Why are they coming over and sitting on the streets begging, whilst there is a massive scope for employment in this country?

MrJoeSoap wrote:

No we don't, but the saying "out of sight, out of mind" springs to mind here.

In fairness, I don't think anyone welcomes more homeless/beggers into this country. Out of sight out of mind perhaps, but I'd prefer if people who were coming into this country were going to take advantage of the work opportunites presented to them and not come in and take advantage of the expanded wallets in peoples pockets.

MrJoeSoap wrote:

I enjoy your style of writing. I'm sure these people "waltz" through Dublin airport. :rolleyes:

Why thank you, I take pride in it
You know what I mean though, it was regarding the ease of access to this country.

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Ah yes, institutional racism.

Oh come on...you know what I meant by that comment. Why do you think the EU will be putting restrictions on emigration?

MrJoeSoap wrote:

You make it sound like the "lovely Romanians" are a minority of the population. How many Romanians have you talked to? How can you tell these 'beggars or criminals' are Romanian?

I actually have talked to a good deal of them. They used to call to the house looking for a handout every Saturday morning, my mother got to know some of them (who eventually gave up after getting food instead of money) and their stories etc. Turns out they had green cards to work here...they just weren't bothered. They even told her they had them.

I've personally talked to quite a few, especially when in Greece. I was in Crete for a period and would encounter them every night, either begging or pick pocketing but they'd try and come up all friendly to you whilst their children picked your pockets while your back was turned. Learned a bit about them that way (as well as having a phone stolen by them).

I know I'm generalising here, but I personally haven't encountered any that weren't dodgy characters. Actually I have, one guy who works around in the local supervalu, nice guy and very hard working. Still obviously there are normal Romanians, or perhaps its a case where a few are giving the rest a bad name.

I know its typical of an AH poster to say "I'm not racist but..." but I seriously am not. I don't discriminate between people based on their race, never have and never will. Just because I've said the above things about Romanians, doesn't mean I'm going to go out and treat every one of them like crap because of the effect a few have had on me. Sure enough it has lead me to generalise but its only what I've based on my experiences, its not as though I'm going to let them effect how I treat or judge people in the future.
Theres an awful lot more to a person than their race afterall

InFront

robinph wrote:

Yes, please "get real" and stop making up numbers. There is no way that there has been 248,000 Poles moved over to Ireland in the last four years since 2002.

Actually, with all due respect Im not making up numbers. 200,000 poles currently resident here was the figure that was given on RTE news a few months back and given that it is estimated that 10,000 poles arrive here per month, to say that there are possibly up to 250, 000 poles living here is not an exaggeration.

Either way Im sure you are not disputing the fact that the number of immigrants arriving here is enormous and background checks on every one of them would be hugely impractical as well as ultimately being a waste of resources. That was the point I was making.

Thrill

This RTE report puts the polish population at around 120,000.

http://www.rte.ie/tv/theafternoonshow/story/1078492.html

The number of Polish people in Ireland is now a massive 120,000, which is bigger that the combined populations of Roscommon and Letrim.

This is still a lot from just one country. I read in another report that as long as our population continues to rise then our economy will continue to grow.
As for screening each one, well that should have started when people started streaming in.
It seems a bit late now, but they could start with new arrivals from now on. I just don't think that they will though.

the_syco

The polish are nice people, but as one has said to me: you wouldn't see anyone walking around too late (after 9 or 10pm) in Poland, as the unemployed will just mug you. Nasty.

The massive influx doesn't bother me, its whats gonna happen to them when a slowdown happens? Are they gonna leave, or will a "France" happen here.

The Sweeper

"Non-national".

Euphemism for "not from round HERE I tell you."

robinph

InFront wrote:

Actually, with all due respect Im not making up numbers. 200,000 poles currently resident here was the figure that was given on RTE news a few months back and given that it is estimated that 10,000 poles arrive here per month, to say that there are possibly up to 250, 000 poles living here is not an exaggeration.

OK, then it's RTE that are making the numbers up. I will happily accept that there are 10,000 people arriving in Ireland from Poland every month but unless every Ryanair flight is returning empty there is also going to be very close to that number leaving every month as well

InFront wrote:

Either way Im sure you are not disputing the fact that the number of immigrants arriving here is enormous and background checks on every one of them would be hugely impractical as well as ultimately being a waste of resources. That was the point I was making.

I would say that the Irish are still not used to having foreigners in their country and are scared of the changes that it is causing and seeing a few more different faces about on the street speaking unusual languages. But I would dispute that the numbers arriving are enormous, its just still a new thing for anyone other than the Irish that left years ago to be moving back to Ireland and the country is not used to it yet.

Dyr

robinph wrote:

OK,

I would say that the Irish are still not used to having foreigners in their country and are scared of the changes that it is causing and seeing a few more different faces about on the street speaking unusual languages.

A few more? Kid yourself pal, but dont try kid other people. I hear far more foreign langauges being spoken in the city centre than english, usually a 3 to 1 difference.

Ive actually had tourists stop me and ask if i was Irish before asking for directions as every other punter they'd stopped previously was a non-national who didnt have a scooby doo what they were on about

Hobbes

You think anyone could possibly stay on topic?

robinph

Bambi wrote:

A few more? Kid yourself pal, but dont try kid other people. I hear far more foreign langauges being spoken in the city centre than english, usually a 3 to 1 difference.

Well that is because you don't register the sound of someone speaking English in an Irish accent as anything more than just normal background noise, but someone speaking Polish or Mandarin or whatever other language is unusual so you notice it more. The same goes for the different faces that you pass walking down the street, you don't notice the hundreds of white western european faces that you pass on the street every day, but if you happen to pass just a couple of people that don't fit that description then they stand out more and you suddenly think there are millions of them about even though there are not.

Dyr

robinph wrote:

Well that is because you don't register the sound of someone speaking English in an Irish accent as anything more than just normal background noise, but someone speaking Polish or Mandarin or whatever other language is unusual so you notice it more. The same goes for the different faces that you pass walking down the street, you don't notice the hundreds of white western european faces that you pass on the street every day, but if you happen to pass just a couple of people that don't fit that description then they stand out more and you suddenly think there are millions of them about even though there are not.

Ha! thats just where you're wrong little buddy! I often walk through town playing the "listen to the furriners" game. Its easy, listen to every snippet of conversation that you pass by, when you hear furrin speak then count it as "one", the next furrin conversation is "two" etc etc . When you hear english then reset your counter at zero. i usually reach between three to five before hearing the english language and setting back to zero.

Conclusion: furriners everywhere, at least around henry street/oconnell street. Even higher levels suspected on parnell street and talbot street

shane86

ziggy67 wrote:

EU citizens are allowed free movement within the EU. It would probably be against their rights to deny them this.

But its against common sense all the same. A few English child abusers have been found to have fled to Ireland over the years. About 25 odd years ago two English guys went on a serial killing spree. Now, I know that at the same time there were Irish immigrants in England planting bombs, but just because the UK government didnt pull the finger out it doesnt mean we shouldnt either. Then there was the Spanish scumbag who my aunt took years to remove from her house after he stopped paying rent and refused to move (back in the 80s mind). My uncles went to remove him by force and got arrested. After looking into his background further and contacting previous landlords and the guys old neighbours, it turned out he and the family had moved the length and breath of the country, living for free in other peoples homes for many months and years before the law finally woke up and did its job. After being thrown out of one spot in Kildare, the landlords shed was burned down days later. He was never charged, but no smoke without fire and all that eh. It dragged on for 2 odd years of her house being guest to a non paying prick whos side the law took before court order finally turfed him out. Since then he has been sent down for molesting kids. And you really still think we should let everyone in? Before some idiot comes up with "like Irish people have never done that" dont be retarded, of course they have. But with background checks we can work to prevent it with someone from abroad, we cant ddo the same with an Irish born person generally.

IIRC an EU national who serves 2 or more years in prison in another EU state can be deported and banned. Dont get me wrong, most of the Poles etc have been grand that Ive met, but all the same I know one or two people whos presence here really is not good for the country.

MrJoeSoap- I think most East Europeans, like most Irish people, know well the reason Romania isnt being allowed free entry. By the "friendly Romanians" rb is referring to those who want to work, rather than the Roma predicted to arrive en masse. If you regard that as racist, ask any Slovaks or Poles are they familliar with the ones in their own countries, theyll tell you a few stories.

[cm]tyranny wrote:

and it's not like ireland never exported criminal scum....

god no, we went out and built railways!

there isn't a single scumbag irish coke dealer on the lam in spain or england...

you people really make me laugh!

As said above, the English policy on Irish migration was, admittedtly, ridicilous. Dont get me wrong, Im glad they had the open door system, after all in the 50s and 80s especially, if every Irish person unemployed chose to stay at home on the dole the country couldnt have afforded the welfare. But it still means the UK were negligent, even if it did help us, and there is no reason we should follow suit. Do you know how much of the funds helping the homeless and junkies in London go to the Irish? The Irish cost the health authorities in London, Birmingham and Manchester a disporportionate amount in relation to alcohol related illness or treatment. The freedom of movement problem is best seen by the disaster of what happened to a few villages around London that have become notorious Irish traveller encampments. Anyone who saw the BBC documentary showing them preparing booby trapped gas cannisters to catch the police who were on the verge of evicting them will agree. Again, England not pulling the finger out meant Ireland waving goodbye to this crowd and we are the better for it, whilst the people in these towns have been sold out. So certainly background checks should be done before allowing people in, to avoid any of the above nonsense happening.

robinph

Bambi wrote:

Conclusion: furriners everywhere, at least around henry street/oconnell street.

So the areas where most tourists are likely to be hanging around then? Strange for you to hear foreign languages spoken there.

peasant

So all the xenophobes in this thread would like border controls re-introduced?

Only this time you not only need to bring your passport but also your latest official, triplacte, signed, stamped and dated police report before you're let into any other european country?

Kinda puts the kybosh on the little holiday home in France though, doesn't it?

Rb

Bambi wrote:

A few more? Kid yourself pal, but dont try kid other people. I hear far more foreign langauges being spoken in the city centre than english, usually a 3 to 1 difference.

Ive actually had tourists stop me and ask if i was Irish before asking for directions as every other punter they'd stopped previously was a non-national who didnt have a scooby doo what they were on about

On a night out recently, I was outside a club with a friend having a cigarette and a chat and these four English people came over and asked were we Irish. I told them we were and they said "Wow, you're the first Irish people we've met since we got here" and they then told us they'd been here for two days! I was astonished!
They then commented about the amount of immigrants we have here, which again I found amazing considering they were from London!

peasant wrote:

So all the xenophobes in this thread would like border controls re-introduced?

I don't see where anyone has indicated in this thread that they fear or hate foreigners tbh.

peasant

rb_ie wrote:

I don't see where anyone has indicated in this thread that they fear or hate foreigners tbh.

Perceptiveness isn't really your strong side, is it?

robinph

rb_ie wrote:

I don't see where anyone has indicated in this thread that they fear or hate foreigners tbh.

Well the first post was an interesting variation on the "I'm not a racist but..." line it was still pretty much saying the same thing. The opinions of the posts didn't then improve much from there as far as I could see.

Rb

peasant wrote:

Perceptiveness isn't really your strong side, is it?

You point out where people have said they're afraid, or that they hate foreigners.

Noone in this thread has. Sure, they've (myself included) expressed their concerns over the vast number of people immigrating to this country and the governments lack of control over immigration, and they have a right to be concerned, do you not think?

OR are you just having a dig because you're an immigrant (you are German, living in Ireland right?) in this country and don't like to see peoples attitudes towards our governments immigration policies (or there lack of)?

Noone has said they hate foreigners and I expect nobody does either, but there is cause for concern and I think we have a right to express our concerns in the matter.

Rb

robinph wrote:

Well the first post was an interesting variation on the "I'm not a racist but..." line it was still pretty much saying the same thing. The opinions of the posts didn't then improve much from there as far as I could see.

The guys married to a non-Irish national/foreigner/immigrant, do you really think hes racist? Or is a xenophobe? I wouldn't expect so...

I think he put that line in because having read AH, its clear how the PC Brigade react to these threads and sparks do tend to start flying. If you don't love our immigrants and welcome every single one of them into this country and are eager to have their friends and family come join them, you're branded a racist by some people on these boards so its not surprising that he added in that line.

Fratton Fred

rb_ie wrote:

On a night out recently, I was outside a club with a friend having a cigarette and a chat and these four English people came over and asked were we Irish. I told them we were and they said "Wow, you're the first Irish people we've met since we got here" and they then told us they'd been here for two days! I was astonished!
They then commented about the amount of immigrants we have here, which again I found amazing considering they were from London!

I was in Galway City last weekend and we were looking for a restaurant. The first four people we asked for directions couldn't speak any English, we eventually asked a club doorman who, although not Irish, was able to help us.

That's all I can say on this subject, I'm an immigrant so I'll keep my head down:D

ambro25

peasant wrote:

Perceptiveness isn't really your strong side, is it?

I'm an immigrant, and I'll not keep my head down. Unlike 'some' (or most, by the prevalent tone on Boards) immigrants, I pay probably twice what they earn in taxes alone, and I'd consider IMHO that I'm contributing rather a big deal to the national economy - more than the average 'national', put it that way.

Thing is, I don't get to say how my taxes are being spent at all, because I can't vote - I'm a non-national, y'see. Since I'm so un-PC, I really should be ranting about all these nationals who are happy squandering my tax money away on p1ss-poor public project management (for instance).

Instead, I witness the growing, more and more open xenophobism which, though probably most directed at East Europeans, does affect us all 'non-nationals'. Today the Poles, tomorrow if and when the going gets rough (or even before that, mind), the Brits/French/Germans/etc...

From a mundane question which somehow has something to do with non-nationals, all the usual follows - "a lot of them foreigners are scum, check them all out", "we get too many", "they are bringing all sorts of diseases" (that one particularly made me laugh!), etc, etc.

Just the same as if the OP had instead made a comment about the amount of foreign languages he/she hears when walking about, or the same in an hospital A&E, etc, etc.

It gets tiresome.

peasant

I don't want to start a pissing match on who said what and how that is to be interpreted ...so I won't.

Leaving aside the doubtful assumption that the influx of "non-nationals" somehow increases overall crime figures ...how does anyone actually propose that these "background checks" be carried out?

I'm pretty sure that once an individual comes to the attention of the police that their background is checked out, be they Irish or otherwise.

In my opinion that's all the background checking we need. took long enough to take all these european borders down ...let's not put them back up again.

Fratton Fred

The way I see it, you are either n the EU or you’re not.

Freedom of movement is one of the fundamental rights under the EU constitution, so there is nothing you can do about it. If Ireland doesn’t want all these “Non-Nationals” then it will have to leave the EU, but they may have to repay the €54bn it has taken from it first. This will also, probably, mean the early departure of Dell, Microsoft, Hewlett Packard, Intel etc etc…….. so Ireland is probably better off staying put for now.

To me, freedom of movement does not suggest that you carry out background checks, if you are in the EU, you take whoever wants to come, not cherry pick the best.

I will say one thing though, I see a lot of cars from Poland and Latvia when I come to and fro on the ferry. No one drives a thousand miles across Europe to sit on their arse and scrounge money. These are the guys who are willing to work hard and earn money doing whatever it is they can get but, maybe, that’s the problem??