Cullen announces Metro North route

weehamster

monument wrote:

It's far more progressive to stop this kind of backward thinking when it comes to branding of transport systems.

'Dublin Metro' should be the brand for the whole system - buses, trams, err large trams, the Dart etc. As with Metro systems in places like LA and DC http://www.mta.net/ and http://www.wmata.com/

Its not 'Backward' at all. Please forgive me :rolleyes: but your a little bit naive my friend if you think like that.

Yes there are systems, which you have pointed out correctly, that freely calls all forms of transportation a 'Metro'. Belfast call their Bus service a 'metro', doesn't mean its an actual metro, i.e. a high capacity train.

Our so called metro is only called that because FF has had the word 'metro' in their manifesto for a long time, promising the tax payer that they'll build one. Remember, a proper heavy rail system was in the pipeline for a while but then they decided to give us a tram system instead and call it a 'metro' to fool the taxpayer that they are getting a proper 'metro'. And of course the government will think it then has delivered on what they promised. It is a bit of a scam if you think about it.

Do we not already have a tram system called Luas? It doesn't matter if a tram is overground or underground, low or medium capacity, Its still a tram and our tram system is called Luas. Its as simple as that.

Now I have already acknowledge that the 'metro' north is a good system because its segregated and therefore can give us a reliable medium capacity system. So I have given in to it been called a metro (even though no effort is been made so that it could be upgraded to a high capacity line like other pre-metro systems in Europe).

Now the so called 'metro' west, well...this is a totally different ballgame altogether. It is not segregated like 'metro' north. So traffic can and will interfere with the frequency of it. Throw in a few cars, vans, rigid's or even articulated trucks can crash into it. These problems will make sure that this line will only be a low capacity line and therefore should only be called 'Luas' West.

Please don't forget that there is the fact that billions of Euro will be spent on the West line alone, and for what, to be the same low capacity system as a the existing Luas system.

weehamster

loyatemu wrote:

Weehamster - the project is called "Metro West" - why the hell would we refer to it by any other name?

Thats the hell why.:mad:

weehamster

bk wrote:

And who are you to tell us what to call it?

I've already stated my views on 'metro' north (please see my previous posts)
However the so called 'metro' west will be a low capacity line and we already have a low capacity tram system and its called Luas and thats why we should call it the 'Luas' west line.

I talk about something which i feel is important to inform people, that we aren't getting a metro system. Most people freely keep talking as if we are getting one, either not knowing or has chosen to accept to ignore the fact.

Who are you to tell me I can't.:mad: I even said please.

First of all I'm under the impression that it will be fully segregated, just not underground.

If your going to make an argument please make an effort to know the facts before you say anything.

Also I agree with monument we should be looking at an integrated naming like in London (London Underground, London Bus, London Rail, London Tram, etc.) and all under the authority of TfL.

How about the DTA, Dublin Transport Authority.
Oh wait a sec, didn't the government say there were doing just same except it wont have any authority. Typical Irish thing really.

We badly need more integration, not less.

Agreed. But what has that got anything to do with calling a low capacity Luas line a metro. How would calling it a Luas make it any less integrated?

It is an old argument, do you build through existing low density housing estates, where is going to cost more and face local objections or do you build through green field sites where it will be cheaper and easier and via planning permission you can encourage high density housing along the line.
From the environmental and city development point of view the latter is the much better option, as long as you give DB a kick up the ass to set up feeder services to serve the nearby older housing estates and connect them to the Metro.

Yes new higher density (or any density for that matters) developments should get access to high quality public transport to avoid adding more traffic to the existing number. Its simply good planning and for most of the existing households, well we aren't use to that now are we?

Now this extension, lets call it, 'metro' east for the laugh. You see the 'metro' east route is very limited. You have the 'north fringe' developments like the Capital North project. North of that you have the Green fields which are on the Airports flight paths (second parallel runway being built soon). So no major developments will take place there. The 'metro' east would have to be between the two, probably along the airport Dart proposal. So it will serve only the current developments which are already looked after with a new Baldoyle Dart Stop & a feeder bus service. So your high density argument is useless here.

Local objections, there is always local objections. Thats expected with planning in Ireland no matter if its going through green fields or along street or even under them. Lame argument.

Cheaper with green fields, err...yeh, its just fields. Of course it would be cheaper. Then why did the RPA continue the 'metro' north underground after DCU. Not because its cheaper I can tell you that. Now don't get me wrong, I would prefer it to be cheap and be in line with the rest of the EU.

Please stick to what is actually needed. If we need a motorway, then we build one. We don't build single carriage lanes just because its cheaper. North East (& West) Dublin city needs a Luas line going right through it. The Dublin Transport Office who spent taxpayers money doing actual research which ended up as the 'Platform for change' (PFC), stated that there should be a Luas line from Howth Jtn going through North East Dublin city.

I think your missing the point here. You see I was talking in particular about what MarkoP11 thinks (and I have high regard about what he says) about linking up the Dart with the 'Luas' West (or 'metro' West for those who still wish to have their heads in the sand), crossing 'Metro' North. If the metro east is built, it will suck up the funding and therefor destroying any chance for modified version of the PFC Luas line (ideally on to Finglas where it could meet with the Luas line from Broadstone) to be constructed. And the most important thing is, it is needed.

Now the study which is funded under T21 that MarkoP11 was talking about was about is connecting Howth Jtn to the Metro north. Now unless thats changed (and with the RPA I wouldn't be surprised), I'll be sticking to a Luas from Howth Jtn based on the recommended PFC line.

Wow great job in stating the obvious, Metro North will serve a great deal of the North side of the city. Sure there are still big gaps in the Northside that should be filled in with future Luas development and DB feeder services.

God, your really are a smart arse now ain't you and not very bright either. Have you actually read my post or did you just glanced over it and reacted as so.

future Luas development

what do you think Im talking about.

An important point to make is that when T21 is completed, DB needs to radically change from mostly radial type services heading into the city, to feeder services feeding nearby Metros, trams and Darts.

My God, and you had the nerve tell me that I was stating the obvious.

bk, I take in your point of view, but don't be a smart arse about. Please argue without the attitude because if not then then get one.

Phew! Right enough of that.I'm off to have a few (dozen) cold beers. Have a good day to you all

PS sorry Victor for the long posts

MarkoP11

Platform for Change is a vision, its the product of bench research its not directly applicable on the ground, numerous routes proposed in the document are impossible. There are two versions, the public one and the more detailed one available only to insiders.

The first, last and only in depth study done on citywide rail/metro transport was done in 1975, DRRTS commissioned by CIE, its 2 volumes and stands a good 3 inches tall compare that to PFC

T21 has funds to study Liffey Junction Finglas, Ballymun - Howth Junc/Grange Rd and it may include Tallaght Harolds Cross St Stephen's Green.

Until more concrete information comes to pass little point in discussion

murphaph

MarkoP11 wrote:

Until more concrete information comes to pass little point in discussion

Thread locked

Thelikefaneire

Lets face the facts people. The government will do what it wants regaudless of what we think. We're getting an underground tram to the airport and thats that. Not a high capacity subway or metro service, but a tram. We cant change it because they say thats whats being built, even though nothing has been built yet, and wont be for some time.


Mad idea but why dont we demand for a development tax where everyone pays a tax that only goes towards paying for what we need to be built. Money that cant go anywhere else and MUST be spent on services and infrastructure that improves the situation. Mad idea i know, but if the public had say over what money was spent where we would hire a private company to do it properly for the most moderate pay but not neccissarily the cheapest that the government is looking for. We need a subway/metro service and it should be the ring route idea, of Metro north going to the metro west which then comes back into Dublin from tallagh and connects with the metro under stephens green.

The metro is a joke, and will be treated as such even when its up and running, and since its only over ground after the airport and segregated it SHOULD be possible to convert the whole thing to a propper "metro" service, not some stupid tram.

Victor

weehamster wrote:

God, your really are a smart arse now ain't you and not very bright either.

Weehamster, please attack the post, not the poster. I'd like a retraction please.

spacetweek

Thelikefaneire wrote:

The metro is a joke, and will be treated as such even when its up and running, and since its only over ground after the airport and segregated it SHOULD be possible to convert the whole thing to a propper "metro" service, not some stupid tram.

An unjustifyable comment, it won't be treated as a joke when it provides a segregated metro-style service with high capacity (I believe 30000 pax/hour) and 17 mins to the airport. That's as good as anywhere else comparable, remember this is quite a small city by international standards.