The best pint of Guinness in Dublin/Ireland

BeerNut · 22-03-2011 10:17pm

MCMLXXV wrote: »

And that, my friend, is why a 'spit and sawdust' pub that doesn't serve food tends to have a better pint then most other pubs!

And how come you're only applying this to Guinness? Surely these factors are equally relevant to all beers. Which pub does the best pint of Carlsberg?

Big Nasty · 22-03-2011 10:27pm

BeerNut wrote: »

And how come you're only applying this to Guinness?

This thread is about the best pint of GUINNESS!:p

BeerNut wrote: »

Surely these factors are equally relevant to all beers.

Yes, yes it does - however GUINNESS would be affected more severly than lager by poor glass hygiene.:cool:

BeerNut wrote: »

Which pub does the best pint of Carlsberg?

Couldn't tell ya - don't drink the muck!

BeerNut · 22-03-2011 10:37pm

MCMLXXV wrote: »

GUINNESS would be affected more severly than lager by poor glass hygiene.

How so?

Big Nasty · 22-03-2011 10:52pm

BeerNut wrote: »

How so?

Have you ever heard anyone saying 'there's a great pint of <insert bland lager> in <that pub>? Yet you will regularly hear people say 'The Pint' (GUINNESS) is magic / muck in a particular pub.

Actually, maybe ALL beer is equally affected by poor glass hygiene, I don't know for sure as for the last 5/6 years the only draught I will drink is GUINNESS. Outside that I tend to drink Belgian / German / Czech bottled beer (in a hand washed glass), but I do know this for sure - the biggest variant in a particular beers quality these days is glass hygiene.

BeerNut · 22-03-2011 11:02pm

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Have you ever heard anyone saying 'there's a great pint of <insert bland lager> in <that pub>? Yet you will regularly hear people say 'The Pint' (GUINNESS) is magic / muck in a particular pub.

I haven't. But I've spent enough time in pubs and on this board to know people think some funny things about beer.

I also brew, and I know it's a lot easier to hide flaws and off-flavours in a dark beer than a pale one. I know that pale lager is exceedingly difficult to make well (or indeed bland) because the slightest defect (or flavour) stands out a mile. Any fool can make stout however. Add an 80-20 gas mix to a stout and you can mask mistakes like bad glass hygiene even more.

I think the idea that Guinness is especially variable in quality is a leftover from the time when it had near-total market domination and wasn't subject to the rigorous quality controls that it gets these days.

And I think it's a myth. It's a romantic notion that has nothing to do with the beer or how it, in particular, tastes from pub to pub as against other beers. If there's anything other than hearsay to suggest that Guinness is somehow special in its variability, I'm all ears.

Big Nasty · 22-03-2011 11:18pm

BeerNut wrote: »

I haven't. But I've spent enough time in pubs and on this board to know people think some funny things about beer.

I also brew, and I know it's a lot easier to hide flaws and off-flavours in a dark beer than a pale one. I know that pale lager is exceedingly difficult to make well (or indeed bland) because the slightest defect (or flavour) stands out a mile. Any fool can make stout however. Add an 80-20 gas mix to a stout and you can mask mistakes like bad glass hygiene even more.

I think the idea that Guinness is especially variable in quality is a leftover from the time when it had near-total market domination and wasn't subject to the rigorous quality controls that it gets these days.

And I think it's a myth. It's a romantic notion that has nothing to do with the beer or how it, in particular, tastes from pub to pub as against other beers. If there's anything other than hearsay to suggest that Guinness is somehow special in its variability, I'm all ears.

Cool, you know stuff about beer and even brew it yourself - respect!

However that says absolutely zero about the consistency of product from one pub to another. Very simply put: 'dirty' glasses = bad beer. Do you put your own beer glasses through your diswasher at home by the way?

BeerNut · 22-03-2011 11:27pm

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Very simply put: 'dirty' glasses = bad beer.

No argument there. I'm just saying I don't see any reason for Guinness being a special case.

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Do you put your own beer glasses through your diswasher at home by the way?

Nope. Though that's more about preserving the glass than the effect on the beer.

Have you ever done a blind test to see if you can tell the difference between beer in a machine-washed glass and the same beer in a hand-washed one?

Big Nasty · 22-03-2011 11:43pm

BeerNut wrote: »

No argument there. I'm just saying I don't see any reason for Guinness being a special case.

Fair enough, as I said the only draught I drink these days is GUINNESS so it's the only drink I can comment on for sure. Poor glass hygiene may affect all beers equally - but without a shadow of a doubt, it does affect beer quality.

BeerNut wrote: »

Have you ever done a blind test to see if you can tell the difference between beer in a machine-washed glass and the same beer in a hand-washed one?

Not quite - I remember years back complaining to a rep about the quality of my beer, he produced a case of fresh pint glasses and asked me to pull a pint - it was perfect (much to my chagrin)!

In relation to my comment about pubs who serve a lot of food - you will find many busy food pubs who regularly hand wash glasses and avoid serving milk in pint glasses and therefore have a 'good pint', be it GUINNESS or any other beer.

Anyhow, my point is that despite GUINNESS' / Diageo's or any other company's best efforts the biggest factor in beer quality these days is glass hygiene. Therefore it is more than possible, but definitive, that beer quality will vary from one pub to the next.

BeerNut · 22-03-2011 11:49pm

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Fair enough, as I said the only draught I drink these days is GUINNESS so it's the only drink I can comment on for sure.

So, would you agree then that the beer revolu's Big Mac analogy is sound? Or at least not "completely wrong"?

Big Nasty · 22-03-2011 11:55pm

BeerNut wrote: »

So, would you agree then that the beer revolu's Big Mac analogy is sound? Or at least not "completely wrong"?

No - I would say that it's completely wrong as he never factored in the vessel that the pint is served in. As per our conversation the glass is probably the biggest factor in affecting beer quality these days.

When eating a Big Mac do you eat the wrapper or take it out of the wrapper? If the wrapper was already 'tarnished' and had affected the sandwich quality do you think transferring it into another, cleaner wrapper would improve the taste?

No - because the damage is already done.

BeerNut · 23-03-2011 12:08am

MCMLXXV wrote: »

If the wrapper was already 'tarnished' and had affected the sandwich quality do you think transferring it into another, cleaner wrapper would improve the taste?

No - because the damage is already done.

Are you saying that, unlike a Big Mac, pouring a pint of beer from a dirty glass to a clean one will improve it?

Big Nasty · 23-03-2011 12:19am

MCMLXXV wrote: »

No - because the damage is already done!

BeerNut wrote: »

Are you saying that, unlike a Big Mac, pouring a pint of beer from a dirty glass to a clean one will improve it?

No - because the damage is already done!

Is there an echo in here?

Look BeerNut, I enjoy my beer as much, if not more than most. I would be what most people would call both you and me a 'beer snob'. I don't consider any of the traditional lagers / beers worth drinking in any shape or form. As I said, I'm very partial to quality strong tasting beers, e.g. Westmalle Triple, Rochefort 8, Chimay Blue, etc.

However when in a pub, a pub that serves a good pint of GUINNESS, that is my drink of choice. It is a native beer, but more importantly a 'good pint', IMO beats all other beers hands down. A 'poor pint', on the other hand makes me sick. I worked in the trade for 15+ years so have a slight inkling towards what affects the quality of draught beer, be it GUINNESS or anything else.

So back to your buddys point, that you can continue to discuss all night if you wish, the quality of a pint varies greatly from one establishment to the next.

Big Mac me whole!

;):D

BeerNut · 23-03-2011 12:24am

MCMLXXV wrote: »

No - because the damage is already done!

So you're saying that a Big Mac is like a pint of Guinness in that the receptacle in which it is served is an important factor in the quality of the finished product. Which means the analogy is apt.

MCMLXXV wrote: »

more importantly a 'good pint', IMO beats all other beers hands down

If you never drink any of the others your opinion isn't based on a whole lot, is it?

MCMLXXV wrote: »

It is a native beer

It's made by the same English company that brews Carlsberg and Bud here. Are they "native" too?

MCMLXXV wrote: »

the quality of a pint varies greatly from one establishment to the next.

Perhaps Big Macs do too. Seems likely, does it not, given that there's more handling done at the point of sale?

Big Nasty · 23-03-2011 12:41am

BeerNut wrote: »

So you're saying that a Big Mac is like a pint of Guinness in that the receptacle in which it is served is an important factor in the quality of the finished product. Which means the analogy is apt.

Your mate never mentioned the packaging, just the product. I agree that the product is consistent, however the packaging (glass) that it is served in affects quality very, very much.

BeerNut wrote: »

It's made by the same English company that brews Carlsberg and Bud here. Are they "native" too?

That may be true today, although AFAIK Diageo are an Italian company. GUINNESS may be owened by them but the drink was originally discovered and brewed here, still is brewed here in fact. Straw. Clutching.

BeerNut wrote: »

Perhaps Big Macs do too. Seems likely, does it not, given that there's more handling done at the point of sale?

Like bland beer, I don't do bland burgers either so I can't comment.

BeerNut, we're obviously both into our beers, maybe in different ways, however I don't see the necessity to continue picking this point. I understand and find it commendable that you are sticking up for your fellow posters 'Big Mac' analogy, however at this stage I think you're taking it a bit to far and your own 'point', whatever that is, has run as watery as a pint of Budweiser.

So, Big Mac, Burger King & Abrakebabra aside - due to glass hygiene draught beer quality can and does vary greatly from one establishment to the next.

I'm off to bed now for a good nights sleep so have a good one dude!

;):D

BeerNut · 23-03-2011 12:48am

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Your mate never mentioned the packaging, just the product. I agree that the product is consistent, however the packaging (glass) that it is served in affects quality very, very much.

He said "storage and serving", which is what a glass is for a pint.

MCMLXXV wrote: »

AFAIK Diageo are an Italian company.

Nope. English. Headquartered at Lakeside Drive, London.

MCMLXXV wrote: »

as watery as a pint of Budweiser.

Or as watery as a 5 or 6 year-old memory of a pint of Budweiser, perhaps?

Big Nasty · 23-03-2011 10:14am

Great - fair play, kudos and well done!;)

The fact remains that draught beer quality can vary greatly from one establishment to the next. I think I've explained why very well at this stage.

Your point is moot.

BaZmO* · 23-03-2011 10:33am

MCMLXXV, the fact that you keep typing Guinness in capitals says an awful lot about their marketing campaign.

I’ve had a few bad pints down through the years, and no doubt, many other people have too, but I see that as a law of averages more than anything else. For a long long time, Guinness was my draught beer of choice so of course I’m going to get the odd stinker.

And the dirty glass argument imo is a weak argument. That’d mean that it would affect the bottled beer just as much, and I have never once heard someone say about a bar, “Jaysis, they serve a terrible bottle of beer there”

In my experience, a dirty glass, and by that I mean a glass from the dishwasher, just affects head retention. Now obviously, a filthy dirty glass would have an affect but I don’t think we’re talking about that level of dirtiness?

Big Nasty · 23-03-2011 11:12am

BaZmO* wrote: »

MCMLXXV, the fact that you keep typing Guinness in capitals says an awful lot about their marketing campaign.

I’ve had a few bad pints down through the years, and no doubt, many other people have too, but I see that as a law of averages more than anything else. For a long long time, Guinness was my draught beer of choice so of course I’m going to get the odd stinker.

And the dirty glass argument imo is a weak argument. That’d mean that it would affect the bottled beer just as much, and I have never once heard someone say about a bar, “Jaysis, they serve a terrible bottle of beer there”

In my experience, a dirty glass, and by that I mean a glass from the dishwasher, just affects head retention. Now obviously, a filthy dirty glass would have an affect but I don’t think we’re talking about that level of dirtiness?

Bazmo,

Have you or BeerNut ever worked in a pub? I have done, in many - from 1990 until 2007, i.e. I have 17 years experience pulling pints. I have managed pubs, clubs and hotels in Ireland, Germany & Belgium. I've also been a GUINNESS (has always been spelled with caps) drinker since I am 15. I am 35 today - do the maths yourself.

Therefore I am very well qualified in relation to what practices affect draught beer quality. As you are aware breweries make every effort to ensure consitency and tend to do so very well but once the beer hits the tap this is where their control ends. Poor practices in relation to glass hygiene is one of the major factors affecting beer quality today - ask any technician and they will tell you the same.

When I say poor hygiene practices, I am not necessarily saying that the glass in question is feckin manky. I am saying that a glass that affects beer quality is not, what is known in the trade as, 'beer clean'. A beer clean glass is a glass devoid of residues like grease or detergent. Grease and detergent residues greatly affect beer quality.

Take your dishwasher at home. It has plates with caked on food yet can remove same in one cycle and give you gleaming crockery. Therefore the detergent is very strong. Try putting one of your beer glasses at home through this machine - it will come out all sparkly but is most definitely not beer clean. (Note: most pubs wouldn't use detergent this strong)

Take another glass very carefully hand wash to ensure there is no residue left on the glass. The best test to ensure your glass is residue free is to use the water break test. If the water does not 'sheet' your glass is not clean. Now pour a beer into both glasses, the 'beer clean' glass and the one from your dishwasher. You will notice that with the beer clean glass the head is retained, no bubbles stick to the side of the glass and the beer tastes good. With the dishwasher glass the head will deteriorate very quickly, bubbles will stick to the residue on the sides of the glass and beer quality is affected.

So if there is residue from strong detergent or grease from food service clinging to your glassware this will most definitely affect beer quality. Be it draught, bottled or canned beer, once it is poured into a contaminated glass the product will deteriorate.

Q.E.D.

BaZmO* · 23-03-2011 11:49am

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Bazmo,

Have you or BeerNut ever worked in a pub?

Yep. My first job was working in a pub, and I’ve worked part time as a bar man down through the years, not much but I’ve enough experience to know what I’m talking about. And just like Beernut, I brew my own beer. So I’d say I have a fair idea about what it takes to make a nice pint.

MCMLXXV wrote: »

I've also been a GUINNESS (has always been spelled with caps) drinker since I am 15. I am 35 today - do the maths yourself.

But why not use the correct font when saying Carlsberg then? It’s the affects of marketing.

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Therefore I am very well qualified in relation to what practices affect draught beer quality. As you are aware breweries make every effort to ensure consitency and tend to do so very well but once the beer hits the tap this is where their control ends. Poor practices in relation to glass hygiene is one of the major factors affecting beer quality today - ask any technician and they will tell you the same.

Can you define exactly what you mean by “beer quality” please. Are you talking taste or appearance?

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Take your dishwasher at home. It has plates with caked on food yet can remove same in one cycle and give you gleaming crockery. Therefore the detergent is very strong. Try putting one of your beer glasses at home through this machine - it will come out all sparkly but is most definitely not beer clean. (Note: most pubs wouldn't use detergent this strong)

Take another glass very carefully hand wash to ensure there is no residue left on the glass. The best test to ensure your glass is residue free is to use the water break test. If the water does not 'sheet' your glass is not clean. Now pour a beer into both glasses, the 'beer clean' glass and the one from your dishwasher. You will notice that with the beer clean glass the head is retained, no bubbles stick to the side of the glass and the beer tastes good. With the dishwasher glass the head will deteriorate very quickly, bubbles will stick to the residue on the sides of the glass and beer quality is affected.

I know, that’s why I said I don’t use a dishwasher for glasses at home.

MCMLXXV wrote: »

So if there is residue from strong detergent or grease from food service clinging to your glassware this will most definitely affect beer quality. Be it draught, bottled or canned beer, once it is poured into a contaminated glass the product will deteriorate.

We all agree on that, but the point still stands, why does the good pint myth only surround Guinness?

Big Nasty · 23-03-2011 12:00pm

BaZmO* wrote: »

Yep. My first job was working in a pub, and I’ve worked part time as a bar man down through the years, not much but I’ve enough experience to know what I’m talking about. And just like Beernut, I brew my own beer. So I’d say I have a fair idea about what it takes to make a nice pint.

Fair play, would love to have the time and patience to do it myself. How much do you know about glass hygiene and how it effects beer quality? If you are a brewer you should know that hygiene is the height of importance and poor practice will affect your beer quality.

BaZmO* wrote: »

But why not use the correct font when saying Carlsberg then? It’s the affects of marketing.

Because I'm pedantic. G u i n n e s s. Happy?:p

BaZmO* wrote: »

Can you define exactly what you mean by “beer quality” please. Are you talking taste or appearance?

Both

BaZmO* wrote: »

I know, that’s why I said I don’t use a dishwasher for glasses at home.

Well done!;)

BaZmO* wrote: »

We all agree on that, but the point still stands, why does the good pint myth only surround Guinness?

I don't know for sure. Maybe it's becuase a lot of pubs sell nearly as much Guinness;) as other lagers combined. A lot of drinkers drink Guinness;) Not as many drink Carlsberg for example.

Big Nasty · 23-03-2011 12:09pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

I can't help feeling that this thread is a bit like asking 'where in Ireland is the best Big Mac?' !

Both Guinness and Big Macs are mass produced and mass marketed.
Both are carefully engineered to be consistent in ever outlet.
Both cater for a wide demographic.
And both probably vary slightly from outlet to outlet depending on factors such as freshness, storage and serving.
And possibly the ambience is far better in some Mc D's than others!;)

One difference, though.....anyone can find out the ingredients in a Big Mac pretty easily.

So, where is the best Big Mac in Ireland??

And the dirty glass argument imo is a weak argument. That’d mean that it would affect the bottled beer just as much, and I have never once heard someone say about a bar, “Jaysis, they serve a terrible bottle of beer there”

In my experience, a dirty glass, and by that I mean a glass from the dishwasher, just affects head retention. Now obviously, a filthy dirty glass would have an affect but I don’t think we’re talking about that level of dirtiness?

MCMLXXV wrote: »

So if there is residue from strong detergent or grease from food service clinging to your glassware this will most definitely affect beer quality. Be it draught, bottled or canned beer, once it is poured into a contaminated glass the product will deteriorate.

We all agree on that

Do we now? Well I am glad I have thought you boys something!

BaZmO* · 23-03-2011 12:13pm

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Do we now? Well I am glad I have thought you boys something!

Ah now, we all agree that it affects quality (I'd say more on the appearance side) but not to the extent that the perfect pint myth would have you believe.

Big Nasty · 23-03-2011 12:16pm

BaZmO* wrote: »

Ah now, we all agree that it affects quality (I'd say more on the appearance side) but not to the extent that the perfect pint myth would have you believe.

It does - simple as and I have explained why already.

BaZmO* · 23-03-2011 12:38pm

MCMLXXV wrote: »

It does - simple as and I have explained why already.

You haven't though. But I feel this discussion is quite futile at this stage.

saintsaltynuts · 23-03-2011 12:44pm

Smyths Haddington St. Dublin 4.Long Mile Inn Bar,Walkinstown, Dublin 12 has great pints of stout.

BeerNut · 23-03-2011 12:55pm

Seriously, MCMLXXV, I strongly recommend testing your thesis about the effect of glass hygiene on beer in a controlled environment via a blind tasting. Put a bit of hard evidence behind your theory.

And since you ask, yes, I have worked in behind bars in pubs, clubs and hotels.

Big Nasty · 23-03-2011 12:56pm

BaZmO* wrote: »

You haven't though. But I feel this discussion is quite futile at this stage.

Lets summarise then shall we?

the beer revolu implied that there was pretty much no difference in a pint from one pub to the next.

MCMLXXV explained that there is and why there is (glass hygiene)

BeerNut reckoned this is a myth.

MCMLXXV explained that it's not a myth and why (glass hygiene)

BaZmO* reckons that the dirty glass argument is week, then agrees that it does indeed affect beer quality, then says it doesn't affect it that much

MCMLXXV disagrees and states that he has already explained how poor practice badly affects beer quality.

As explained I have 17 years exp in the trade, I know very well what I'm talking about. BeerNut, the beer revolu or BaZmO* may not agree with me but they are wrong, very wrong. Once again, glass hygiene greatly affects beer quality, be it in the pub or at home.

As a side I would ask BeerNut, the beer revolu and BaZmO* to explain what factors they think greatly affects beer quality from one pub to the next if not for the glassware. Or do they really believe that beer quality is virtually the same from one pub to the next?

Lastly, to the mods, as this topic 'The best pint if Guinness in Dublin/Ireland' has been dragged way off topic could from post 171 on be cut and paste into a new thread in order to get back on topic? Thanks!

BeerNut · 23-03-2011 1:05pm

MCMLXXV wrote: »

BeerNut reckoned this is a myth.

You've got that wrong. I reckoned the idea that Guinness is uniquely sensitive is a myth. And you agreed, IIRC.

MCMLXXV wrote: »

As a side I would ask BeerNut, the beer revolu and BaZmO* to explain what factors they think greatly affects beer quality from one pub to the next if not for the glassware. Or do they really believe that beer quality is virtually the same from one pub to the next?

Both

I think quality of any industrial beer is virtually the same from one pub to the next. But I don't have a way of proving it so I'm happy to agree to disagree, unless you have a way of disproving it, of course.

Factors like the lines, the age of the beer and the conditions in which it has been cellared will all affect the quality of any industrial keg beer. As will the glass, of course. For non-pasteurised beer, unfiltered beer, cask beer and beer made on smaller-than-factory-sized kit there will be other factors too, though these aren't relevant to Guinness.

BaZmO* · 23-03-2011 1:11pm

BeerNut wrote: »

I think quality of any industrial beer is virtually the same from one pub to the next. But I don't have a way of proving it so I'm happy to agree to disagree, unless you have a way of disproving it, of course.

That'd be pretty much my opinion on the subject.

Big Nasty · 23-03-2011 1:19pm

BeerNut wrote: »

You've got that wrong. I reckoned the idea that Guinness is uniquely sensitive is a myth. And you agreed, IIRC.

Not quite - I agree that Guinness is sensitive, I said that I tend to stay away from other 'industrial' beers so I cannot comment on these for sure.

BeerNut wrote: »

Both I think quality of any industrial beer is virtually the same from one pub to the next. But I don't have a way of proving it so I'm happy to agree to disagree, unless you have a way of disproving it, of course.

From my own drinking experience Guinness varies greatly from pub to pub. If not then why would people discuss the quality of a pint from one pub to the next? Just for the craic?

BeerNut wrote: »

Factors like the lines, the age of the beer and the conditions in which it has been cellared will all affect the quality of any industrial keg beer. As will the glass, of course. For non-pasteurised beer, unfiltered beer, cask beer and beer made on smaller-than-factory-sized kit there will be other factors too, though these aren't relevant to Guinness.

Yes but with 'industrial beers' as we are all aware the 'industrial' companies invest heavily in quality control and pretty much control the whole process from the start of the brew until it reaches the tap. They maintain there own lines and encourage proper cold room practice and even give rebates for same. Therefore the only other factor that they do not have control of that can affect quality is the glassware. I think I have explained same thoroughly at this stage. Why you guys can't accpet that is beyond me.

The best pint of Guinness in Dublin/Ireland

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