The Hazards of Belief

Stephen

5uspect wrote:

Ars Technica field trip the Creation Museum.

If I believed in god i'd be saying OMFG right now.

Galvasean

Oh so Velociraptors were vegetarian now? There goes everything i thought i knew. What was the sickle claw for again??

The Mad Hatter

Galvasean wrote:

Oh so Velociraptors were vegetarian now? There goes everything i thought i knew. What was the sickle claw for again??

Stripping the bark off trees, obviously.

Galvasean

But but we now know that Velociraptor's claws werent strong enough to rip through flesh bark, but were instead used to pin down prey trees or possibly even stab the jugular root..

PDN

robindch wrote:

In what looks like a thoroughly gruesome read, a new book claims that a christian fundamentalist cult set up in Limerick in the 90's and spent much of their time having sex with each other, especially the children. One of whom has written about her experiences and who's due to give an interview on TV3 tomorrow (Friday) morning:

http://www.limerickpost.ie/dailynews.elive?id=8133&category=Daily-Thu
http://www.limerickpost.ie/dailynews.elive?id=8129&category=Daily-Thu

"The Family" is well-known, but I didn't realize that they operated in Ireland. Is anybody aware of anybody who's had contact with them?

Apart from the gross unpleasantness of the alleged abuse, what strikes me is the common themes between the cult and the more mainstream religions -- control of education and information, instilling fear, rejection of religion causes rejection by family, Jesus coming back soon to judge everybody, obsession with sex, money going to leadership without controls in place, religiously-derived violence is acceptable, etc, etc.

Yes, that particular cult certainly was active in Ireland at one time. I know a prominent businessman who was very involved with them. He claims that the particular group he was involved in had none of the abuse stuff at that time.

I think most of the bad traits you mention in your final paragraph (control of education and information, instilling fear, rejection of ideology causes rejection by family, obsession with sex, money going to leadership without controls in place, ideological violence) are common themes in any totalitarian group, be it religious or atheistic. However, to say they are common with mainstream religions is inaccurate. I see none of these traits in most religious communities in Ireland.

robindch

A Tanzanian medicine man jumped into a river, saying he was visiting the ancestors and would return Tuesday with a revelation. Didn't work out like that, unfortunately.

http://www.dailynews-tsn.com/page.php?id=8335

Daily News, Tanzania, 2007-08-28 wrote:

THAT water bodies are believed to be the gateways to the underneath spirit world, is not altogether uncommon belief but never has a man boasted to descend to the “gates of hell” by jumping into a river under the full glare of chanting and dancing onlookers.

Unbelievable? That is what happened at Masigo village in Mpanda district last Saturday when traditional medicine man cum soothsayer Nyasio Alfonsi (40) threw himself into Ifuma River amid chants and drumming promising to resurface after three days “with revelation from the ancestral spirits for the village on planned tribal rituals.”

Four days later, Alfonso was nowhere to be seen as the villagers too awoke from their stupor to mount a search only to fish out his decomposed body some metres downstream. Rukwa Regional Police Commander Mr Daudi Siasi confirmed the incident which he said, was reported to police by village leaders. It was not immediately clear whether the tribal rituals would go on as planned later this week but Masigo is certainly a grieving village now rather than the proud source of prophesy from departed ancestors.

Belief in witchcraft is widespread in Rukwa region and traditional medicinemen are often held in awe and feared for their spells believed to be ‘divine’ prophesy and judgement. The region is also notorious for grotesque murders with bodies found skinned and private parts removed in what is often believed to be killings associated with belief in witchcraft.

Whereas humans are believed to practise ‘astral travel’ or shedding the mortal body to travel in spirit to great distances and through physical obstacles, practitioners would still die if they failed to rejoin their bodies or casing for the soul, before daybreak.

PDN

robindch wrote:

A Tanzanian medicine man jumped into a river, saying he was visiting the ancestors and would return Tuesday with a revelation. Didn't work out like that, unfortunately.

Shades of Empedocles?

There is nothing new under the sun. (Ecclesiastes 1:9)

robindch

Meanwhile, the local director of disease control says people are unlikely to be as pure as they claim. None of god's spokesmen commented. The original article is here.

The Alabama Press-Register, 2007-09-16 wrote:

Last year in Mobile County, 4,629 new cases of chlamydia, gonorrhea and syphilis were reported -- enough instances of the sexually transmitted diseases to account for one out of every 87 people, according to a Press-Register review of state and federal statistics. That was about three times the rate in New York City and more than twice as high as Washington, D.C. While the numbers seem shocking, they're not at epidemic levels, according to health officials.

"If you don't do this for a living or you're not an OB specialist or you're not an infectious disease specialist, and you look at the numbers, you go, 'Oh my God,'" said Paul Piepho, disease intervention program manager at the Mobile County Health Department. "We're not at that point." Statewide, syphilis cases were up 60 percent last year, compared with 2005 (from 583 cases to 931). Chlamydia has also been on the rise, increasing 44-fold from 509 cases in 1994 to 22,560 in 2006. "And I think we're seeing just the tip of the iceberg," Piepho said.

Eight counties -- poor and sparsely populated except for No. 2-ranked Montgomery County -- had higher STD rates in 2006 than Mobile County, statistics showed. A lack of education weighs heavily on a county's rate, health officials said. In Alabama public schools, students are taught abstinence-based sex education as part of a half credit of health education in high school. Students learn that "abstinence is the only protection against pregnancy, HIV/AIDs and STDs," said state Department of Education spokeswoman Edith Parten. The subject of condoms, under the state course of study guidelines, is not broached, she said. "(Ages) 15 to 29 is the high-risk group, and it's typical of a lot of things," said Monica Z. Knight, director of the bureau of disease control at the Mobile County Health Department. "They think they're invincible or they have no knowledge or they don't care or 'It's something that's going happen to that person, but not to me.'"

Lower incomes and higher poverty also play roles in infection rates, officials said. Baldwin County, for example, had one of the state's lower STD rates last year, with the equivalent of one in every 302 people diagnosed with one of the three diseases. In Baldwin, median household income in 2004 was $42,227, and Census data showed that 10 percent of people lived below the poverty line. That same year in Mobile County, the median household income was almost $10,000 less, and the number of people living below the poverty level was 20 percent. Hale County in west-central Alabama had the highest STD rate, with the equivalent of one out of every 58 residents being diagnosed last year. In Hale, 22 percent of the population lives below the poverty level.

"Having been an educator myself and teaching teenage girls ... I don't think we address sex education well in the schools. At all," said Dr. Nancy O'Neill, chief of staff at Hale County Hospital. Officials pointed to more and better testing as a big reason that STD numbers are higher. "Before about two or three years ago, we were not even able to do chlamydia testing on males," said Victor Creagh, disease intervention supervisor at the Baldwin County Health Department. "And I'm not sure all females were getting tested as they should have at that time."

Now, one sample from a urine test can be checked simultaneously for chlamydia and gonorrhea. But just asking to get tested can be a major problem for some people. "Your personal intimacy behavior in any population is generally not something you run around sharing with people," Knight said, "and you don't know -- in any age group -- who you are exposed to by exposing yourself to a partner who swears they're healthy, swears they've never done anything, swears they are saint of the month. "And guess what? They're not."

Scofflaw

Being publicly mad - Ann Coulter. Does that count? Or does she count?

cordially,
Scofflaw

Dades

Scofflaw wrote: »

Being publicly mad - Ann Coulter. Does that count? Or does she count?

Reading that made me think.

Isn't she only saying out loud what every true Christian believes? That Jews are only not Christians by virtue of their rejecting Christ? Why is Ann Coulter wanting to 'perfect' Jews any different than a proselytizing Christian trying to convert an atheist/agnostic. The only difference is the word "perfect" which she is using to indicate that Jews are almost Christians; but which the average person would take as meaning Jews are imperfect. The missing point is that all non-Christians are imperfect, Jewish less so.

Her use of the word 'perfect' reminds me of Dawkins use of 'delusion'. You get your audience's back up before you've even started.

Scofflaw

The Atheist wrote: »

Reading that made me think.

Isn't she only saying out loud what every true Christian believes? That Jews are only not Christians by virtue of their rejecting Christ? Why is Ann Coulter wanting to 'perfect' Jews any different than a proselytizing Christian trying to convert an atheist/agnostic. The only difference is the word "perfect" which she is using to indicate that Jews are almost Christians; but which the average person would take as meaning Jews are imperfect. The missing point is that all non-Christians are imperfect, Jewish less so.

Her use of the word 'perfect' reminds me of Dawkins use of 'delusion'. You get your audience's back up before you've even started.

I think it's very much the case. If you are a committed Christian, you are obviously committed to the statement that other religions are quite simply wrong. Most are too polite to say it, some few are too polite to even think it, but it's certainly the case - Christianity by its nature is exclusive.

A number of Christian bloggers have supported Coulter's position, but she's in severe danger of running mouth first into the US Israeli lobby - much, again, like Dawkins.

It's also true, of course, that we atheists think all theists are wrong - but "wrong" there doesn't have quite the same connotations.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Zombrex

Ann Coulter said something offensive on CNBC

The most surprising thing about that sentence is the question what the hell was Ann Coulter doing on CNBC.

Zombrex

Scofflaw wrote: »

Most are too polite to say it, some few are too polite to even think it, but it's certainly the case - Christianity by its nature is exclusive.

Its a good point, its what all Christians believe by nature of being Christian.

If this guy was really offended by her statements he needs to look at what Christianity, and his own religion, actually teaches. All the Judeo/Christian religions are exclusive in this fashion.

It was interesting though to see Ann start to sweat a bit at the end and demanding that she explain her point and that he shouldn't take offense by it.

Scofflaw

Wicknight wrote: »

Its a good point, its what all Christians believe by nature of being Christian.

If this guy was really offended by her statements he needs to look at what Christianity, and his own religion, actually teaches. All the Judeo/Christian religions are exclusive in this fashion.

It was interesting though to see Ann start to sweat a bit at the end and demanding that she explain her point and that he shouldn't take offense by it.

Did they cut her mic?

cordially,
Scofflaw

robindch

A few months old, and no update on the guy's health. I hope he's ok. http://cbs5.com/watercooler/watercooler_story_190140139.html

CBS5 wrote:

Religious Book Seller Struck By Lightning

HIALEAH A man making a trip from Puerto Rico to South Florida to raise money for his religious education remains hospitalized Monday after he was struck down by a bolt of lightning which flew from clear blue sky on Sunday. He was selling religious materials when he was hit.

Hailu Kidane Marian was working with members of his religious group, selling religious materials door-to-door in a Northwest Miami-Dade neighborhood, when the bolt from the blue struck him down. "I heard a boom, and I looked and the guy jumped back, and he just laid there, stiff," said witness Maria Martinez.

Paramedics say Marian was not breathing and his heart was not beating when they arrived, but they were able to revive him and rushed him to Jackson Memorial hospital, where he was in critical condition Sunday night. Members of his religious group waited outside the hospital throughout the night for word of his condition. "He's unconscious, he's in a coma," said Francisco Perez, leader of the Puerto Rico-based group. "It's difficult what happened, you know, but what can we do? Things happen in life, but we still believe in God."

This is the second incident in as many months of someone being struck down by lightning from a clear sky in South Florida. Last month David Canales, a gardener who worked in the Pinecrest area, was killed when lightning apparently struck him from a rainless sky. Two co-workers standing nearby were unhurt.

CBS Miami Meteorologist Jeff Berardelli said 'dry lightning', which can strike even when the sky is clear, can be very dangerous because victims are not expecting it and don't prepare as they might with a storm threatening. Measurement of lightning strikes in the area Sunday showed only a few bolts compared to the last few days, making Marian especially unlucky to be struck by one of them.

Nobody else was injured when the bolt flew from the sky.

growler

and another Jehovah Witness hurries off to meet their maker,


"A young mother has died just hours after giving birth to twins because her Jehovah's Witness faith prevented her from accepting a blood transfusion"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shropshire/7078455.stm


I feel really sorry for those kids growing up without their mum because of this.

Zombrex

growler wrote: »

and another Jehovah Witness hurries off to meet their maker,


"A young mother has died just hours after giving birth to twins because her Jehovah's Witness faith prevented her from accepting a blood transfusion"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shropshire/7078455.stm


I feel really sorry for those kids growing up without their mum because of this.

Well they will probably be brain washed into thinking that she is in a far better place now, and that when they need a blood transfusion they should refuse it too, just like their brave mother did.

PDN

robindch wrote: »

A few months old, and no update on the guy's health. I hope he's ok. http://cbs5.com/watercooler/watercooler_story_190140139.html

Should this be under "The Hazards of Gardening"?

robindch

PDN wrote:

Should this be under "The Hazards of Gardening"?

Not if you read the first two-thirds of the article, er, no it shouldn't.

growler

PDN wrote: »

Should this be under "The Hazards of Gardening"?

although to be fair, labelling this a hazard of belief is probably stretching it a bit, but I don't think there is a "hazards of walking around" or a "hazards of gardening" thread going currently.

If the "religious" books he were selling were struck and they somehow acted as a conductor of the lightning, then ok, but that wasn't clear to me from the article.

Perhaps there is a thread over on one of the religious fora on "funny ways god shows his divine love / tests our faith, through nature" ?

Schuhart

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/video/2007/dec/09/video

Child witches in Africa. Do they really believe this, or what?

SubjectSean

Schuhart wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/video/2007/dec/09/video

Child witches in Africa. Do they really believe this, or what?

Ya they do very much so but hardly anybody has been to school. Before the mass of people here went to school they used to think similar things. We are suckers for sorcery and witchcraft without an education. There are lots of people in Africa actually practicing witchcraft so don't go saying there's no such thing as witches and that people are dumb to believe in them existing. I seen 'em


[EDIT] The evangelical pastors, prophets and apostles really are the limit sniffing out kids and extorting cash from the parents to perform exorcism but these f**kers get funds from the fundamentalists in the US and elsewhere.

As for the girl in the green dress no normal african kid would claim to be a witch and the mother nearly breaks herself laughing at a couple of points I think they were just having a laugh and seeing if the nice rich concerned white people would look after the little girl.

MoominPapa

This dirty ol' bastard: Michael Travesser. C4 doc last night "The end of the world cult", really creepy stuff. He shagged his own sons wife repeatedly cause the big cheese told him to (his son did seem to mind but his father basically told him to take it up with God) and also lots of teenage girls with mustaches. Oh yeah, he's also the son of God II and the end of the world will happen on the 31st October next Sunday

Dades

MoominPapa wrote: »

This dirty ol' bastard: Michael Travesser. C4 doc last night "The end of the world cult", really creepy stuff. He shagged his own sons wife repeatedly cause the big cheese told him to (his son did seem to mind but his father basically told him to take it up with God) and also lots of teenage girls with mustaches. Oh yeah, he's also the son of God II and the end of the world will happen on the 31st October next Sunday

Watched some of that last night.

When you look up 'Beardy-weirdy' in the dictionary there's a picture of him.

TheThing!

Wait wait wait wai wai wai

A lionESS you say?

Since when can broads beat up dudes?

Dades

I'll admit my Christmas party was last night, so I'm slow today.

But what the frack are you talking about?

pH

Priest who committed suicide for rebirth cremated

Raipur: A three-day "miracle" drama in Chhattisgarh's industrial town of Raigarh ended on Monday afternoon after a Hindu priest, who had committed suicide promising to return to life within 72 hours of his death, was cremated.

Hundreds of people had laid siege around the body of 25-year-old Manoj Baghel, who ended his life on Saturday by consuming poison at a temple in Raigarh, about 200 km northeast of state capital, Raipur. Baghel had claimed that he would come back to life.

"The miracle drama is now over as the people, who had surrounded the body of the dead priest to witness the rebirth, handed over the corpse to the police for post-mortem on Monday afternoon," Superintendent of Police in Raigarh, J K Thorate said.

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/priest-who-committed-suicide-for-rebirth-cremated/54924-3.html?xml

Zillah

Ahaha! That last one is hilarious.

Popinjay

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3152432.ece

Scofflaw

Popinjay wrote: »

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3152432.ece

And another one from the church recipe book.

cordially,
Scofflaw